What are the odds a 17 HC shoots 5 over in a tournament?

[smeech8000]

What are the odds of me as an 11 handi making 4 birdies in 9 holes in a stableford tournament?

 

I’ve never had more than 2 or 3 birdies in 18 prior to that day, but that day something clicked and I won the 2 day tournament.

 

Point being, ANYONE can create a bit of pixie dust on the day and only the golf G-ds know how and why it happened.

 

I certainly wish I could bottle that day and that feeling but sadly it was a fleeting moment.

 

So no, not surprised to hear about a 17 shooting 5 over. It happens.

 

Yep 9 holes....... Did that too this year, don't ask about the back 9......

 

Talking to my neighbour who would be a perfect golfwrx member. He (a 6HC) plays all his events and enjoys competition. He was in the matchplay finals against the former 5HC, now a 14HC. 70km winds and neighbour plays a really solid round of 79..... Got smoked by the 14 who too shot 79 in tough conditions making up and downs no 14HC should make and birdieing 2 of the first 6 holes.

 

He then talks to the the person who lost in the semis to the 14HC. Was told he too got trounced as the 14HC shot surprise surprise a 79 as well that day. When he checked the system the 14HC put in an 86.....

 

Champions dinner over so while reported too late to do anything....

 

You're not describing a sandbagger. You're describing a CHEAT. Similar but not exactly the same thing.

 

Please explain the difference.

[Swisstrader98]

What are the odds of me as an 11 handi making 4 birdies in 9 holes in a stableford tournament?

 

I’ve never had more than 2 or 3 birdies in 18 prior to that day, but that day something clicked and I won the 2 day tournament.

 

Point being, ANYONE can create a bit of pixie dust on the day and only the golf G-ds know how and why it happened.

 

I certainly wish I could bottle that day and that feeling but sadly it was a fleeting moment.

 

So no, not surprised to hear about a 17 shooting 5 over. It happens.

 

Yep 9 holes....... Did that too this year, don't ask about the back 9......

 

Talking to my neighbour who would be a perfect golfwrx member. He (a 6HC) plays all his events and enjoys competition. He was in the matchplay finals against the former 5HC, now a 14HC. 70km winds and neighbour plays a really solid round of 79..... Got smoked by the 14 who too shot 79 in tough conditions making up and downs no 14HC should make and birdieing 2 of the first 6 holes.

 

He then talks to the the person who lost in the semis to the 14HC. Was told he too got trounced as the 14HC shot surprise surprise a 79 as well that day. When he checked the system the 14HC put in an 86.....

 

Champions dinner over so while reported too late to do anything....

 

You're not describing a sandbagger. You're describing a CHEAT. Similar but not exactly the same thing.

 

Please explain the difference.

 

Not answering for this poster, but to my mind there are 2 broad categories of cheaters in golf: 1) sandbaggers and 2) vanity handicappers.

 

Same making up of scores or tweaking the system for either bragging rights in the case of vanity handicapped or to win a tournament or money in the case of sandbaggers.

 

[Under2hours]

What are the odds of me as an 11 handi making 4 birdies in 9 holes in a stableford tournament?

 

I’ve never had more than 2 or 3 birdies in 18 prior to that day, but that day something clicked and I won the 2 day tournament.

 

Point being, ANYONE can create a bit of pixie dust on the day and only the golf G-ds know how and why it happened.

 

I certainly wish I could bottle that day and that feeling but sadly it was a fleeting moment.

 

So no, not surprised to hear about a 17 shooting 5 over. It happens.

 

Yep 9 holes....... Did that too this year, don't ask about the back 9......

 

Talking to my neighbour who would be a perfect golfwrx member. He (a 6HC) plays all his events and enjoys competition. He was in the matchplay finals against the former 5HC, now a 14HC. 70km winds and neighbour plays a really solid round of 79..... Got smoked by the 14 who too shot 79 in tough conditions making up and downs no 14HC should make and birdieing 2 of the first 6 holes.

 

He then talks to the the person who lost in the semis to the 14HC. Was told he too got trounced as the 14HC shot surprise surprise a 79 as well that day. When he checked the system the 14HC put in an 86.....

 

Champions dinner over so while reported too late to do anything....

 

You're not describing a sandbagger. You're describing a CHEAT. Similar but not exactly the same thing.

 

Please explain the difference.

 

Not answering for this poster, but to my mind there are 2 broad categories of cheaters in golf: 1) sandbaggers and 2) vanity handicappers.

 

Same making up of scores or tweaking the system for either bragging rights in the case of vanity handicapped or to win a tournament or money in the case of sandbaggers.

 

Putting in 86 is cheating, but anyone who's HC has jumped from 5 to 14 shouldn't be allowed to play as a 14 (unless a result of a medical reason or 10 years away from golf).

 

Of course my HC is rising as I am trying to not be a vanity capper (all due to putting)......

[Shilgy]

 

Putting in 86 is cheating, but anyone who's HC has jumped from 5 to 14 shouldn't be allowed to play as a 14 (unless a result of a medical reason or 10 years away from golf).

 

Of course my HC is rising as I am trying to not be a vanity capper (all due to putting)......

Huh? So your putting excuse is a valid reason for your handicap to go up but a person who goes from 5 to 14 can't use the 14 in your opinion? I agree if they are getting there by putting in high scores they did not shoot they need to be called out but other things can happen to cause it as well.

[Under2hours]

Putting in 86 is cheating, but anyone who's HC has jumped from 5 to 14 shouldn't be allowed to play as a 14 (unless a result of a medical reason or 10 years away from golf).

 

Of course my HC is rising as I am trying to not be a vanity capper (all due to putting)......

Huh? So your putting excuse is a valid reason for your handicap to go up but a person who goes from 5 to 14 can't use the 14 in your opinion? I agree if they are getting there by putting in high scores they did not shoot they need to be called out but other things can happen to cause it as well.

 

No I am saying my putting is lousy and no longer taking gimmes and thus seeing my HC creep up.

 

Now if someone goes from a 5-14 because they have some physical issues, I can get it. What I can't is that they just got worse...... A 5 who goes to a 14 and still plays regularly is CHEATING......

[Shilgy]

Putting in 86 is cheating, but anyone who's HC has jumped from 5 to 14 shouldn't be allowed to play as a 14 (unless a result of a medical reason or 10 years away from golf).

 

Of course my HC is rising as I am trying to not be a vanity capper (all due to putting)......

Huh? So your putting excuse is a valid reason for your handicap to go up but a person who goes from 5 to 14 can't use the 14 in your opinion? I agree if they are getting there by putting in high scores they did not shoot they need to be called out but other things can happen to cause it as well.

 

No I am saying my putting is lousy and no longer taking gimmes and thus seeing my HC creep up.

 

Now if someone goes from a 5-14 because they have some physical issues, I can get it. What I can't is that they just got worse...... A 5 who goes to a 14 and still plays regularly is CHEATING......

As long as physical issues include mental issues I agree. We have all seen players go up 6-9 strokes in a relatively short time because they simply lost it.

[deadsolid...shank]

It’s very subtle (and possibly way off base), but I see a difference in that scenario between cheating and sandbagging. But admittedly, it’s not much.

 

Sandbagging is creative manipulation of the handicap. Purposeful three putting, chunking a chip, blowing one way OB, etc.

 

Just entering a higher score is blatant, outright cheating.

 

Like I said, I know there really isn’t a difference because sandbagging is in fact cheating. But at least bagging that way requires a little (hopefully subtle) effort.

[Swisstrader98]

I oftentimes wonder why there’s not a requirement to have all golfers enter their scores upon completion of their rounds and that each score card is validated by a witness just like it’s a tour event.

 

I get that a lot of people want to play by a casual set of rules, but too many people not putting in scores, tweaking scores or finding other means to cheat the system.

 

Why not just make it mandatory to enter all scores and enforce it?

[Under2hours]

Putting in 86 is cheating, but anyone who's HC has jumped from 5 to 14 shouldn't be allowed to play as a 14 (unless a result of a medical reason or 10 years away from golf).

 

Of course my HC is rising as I am trying to not be a vanity capper (all due to putting)......

Huh? So your putting excuse is a valid reason for your handicap to go up but a person who goes from 5 to 14 can't use the 14 in your opinion? I agree if they are getting there by putting in high scores they did not shoot they need to be called out but other things can happen to cause it as well.

 

No I am saying my putting is lousy and no longer taking gimmes and thus seeing my HC creep up.

 

Now if someone goes from a 5-14 because they have some physical issues, I can get it. What I can't is that they just got worse...... A 5 who goes to a 14 and still plays regularly is CHEATING......

As long as physical issues include mental issues I agree. We have all seen players go up 6-9 strokes in a relatively short time because they simply lost it.

Sure and then back to playing like a 5 just in time for tournament season.......

 

Actually never seen a persons game disintegrate like that unless they stopped playing.

[Shilgy]

^^Makes the old system of everyone entering their scores on a daily tee sheet and the shop entering them seem more responsible.

[nsxguy]

What are the odds of me as an 11 handi making 4 birdies in 9 holes in a stableford tournament?

 

I’ve never had more than 2 or 3 birdies in 18 prior to that day, but that day something clicked and I won the 2 day tournament.

 

Point being, ANYONE can create a bit of pixie dust on the day and only the golf G-ds know how and why it happened.

 

I certainly wish I could bottle that day and that feeling but sadly it was a fleeting moment.

 

So no, not surprised to hear about a 17 shooting 5 over. It happens.

 

Yep 9 holes....... Did that too this year, don't ask about the back 9......

 

Talking to my neighbour who would be a perfect golfwrx member. He (a 6HC) plays all his events and enjoys competition. He was in the matchplay finals against the former 5HC, now a 14HC. 70km winds and neighbour plays a really solid round of 79..... Got smoked by the 14 who too shot 79 in tough conditions making up and downs no 14HC should make and birdieing 2 of the first 6 holes.

 

He then talks to the the person who lost in the semis to the 14HC. Was told he too got trounced as the 14HC shot surprise surprise a 79 as well that day. When he checked the system the 14HC put in an 86.....

 

Champions dinner over so while reported too late to do anything....

 

You're not describing a sandbagger. You're describing a CHEAT. Similar but not exactly the same thing.

 

Please explain the difference.

 

Sure. The simple version ?

 

The sandbagger is one who's not trying his best to make the best score he can.

 

The CHEAT is the guy who shot 79 and posted 86.

 

;)

[bladehunter]

i think most baggers actually just omit the good rounds and are sure to post the bad ones... as in let the 15 cap bagger shoot 75... unless you march him in and watch him post he isnt likely to post that round.... we report our known sand baggers and our pro waits 3 days and if they havent posted the good score...he double posts it for them.....

[deadsolid...shank]

i think most baggers actually just omit the good rounds and are sure to post the bad ones... as in let the 15 cap bagger shoot 75... unless you march him in and watch him post he isnt likely to post that round.... we report our known sand baggers and our pro waits 3 days and if they havent posted the good score...he double posts it for them.....

 

Nice! I like your pro.

[Swisstrader98]

What are the odds of me as an 11 handi making 4 birdies in 9 holes in a stableford tournament?

 

I’ve never had more than 2 or 3 birdies in 18 prior to that day, but that day something clicked and I won the 2 day tournament.

 

Point being, ANYONE can create a bit of pixie dust on the day and only the golf G-ds know how and why it happened.

 

I certainly wish I could bottle that day and that feeling but sadly it was a fleeting moment.

 

So no, not surprised to hear about a 17 shooting 5 over. It happens.

 

Yep 9 holes....... Did that too this year, don't ask about the back 9......

 

Talking to my neighbour who would be a perfect golfwrx member. He (a 6HC) plays all his events and enjoys competition. He was in the matchplay finals against the former 5HC, now a 14HC. 70km winds and neighbour plays a really solid round of 79..... Got smoked by the 14 who too shot 79 in tough conditions making up and downs no 14HC should make and birdieing 2 of the first 6 holes.

 

He then talks to the the person who lost in the semis to the 14HC. Was told he too got trounced as the 14HC shot surprise surprise a 79 as well that day. When he checked the system the 14HC put in an 86.....

 

Champions dinner over so while reported too late to do anything....

 

You're not describing a sandbagger. You're describing a CHEAT. Similar but not exactly the same thing.

 

Please explain the difference.

 

Sure. The simple version ?

 

The sandbagger is one who's not trying his best to make the best score he can.

 

The CHEAT is the guy who shot 79 and posted 86.

 

;)

 

Uhm. Can we at least call them both liars or perhaps manipulators?? Seems like we’re splitting hairs here.

 

And p.s, many a sandbagger shoots a 79 and posts an 86...that’s part of the sandbagger’s MO.

[smeech8000]

Yep 9 holes....... Did that too this year, don't ask about the back 9......

 

Talking to my neighbour who would be a perfect golfwrx member. He (a 6HC) plays all his events and enjoys competition. He was in the matchplay finals against the former 5HC, now a 14HC. 70km winds and neighbour plays a really solid round of 79..... Got smoked by the 14 who too shot 79 in tough conditions making up and downs no 14HC should make and birdieing 2 of the first 6 holes.

 

He then talks to the the person who lost in the semis to the 14HC. Was told he too got trounced as the 14HC shot surprise surprise a 79 as well that day. When he checked the system the 14HC put in an 86.....

 

Champions dinner over so while reported too late to do anything....

 

You're not describing a sandbagger. You're describing a CHEAT. Similar but not exactly the same thing.

 

Please explain the difference.

 

Sure. The simple version ?

 

The sandbagger is one who's not trying his best to make the best score he can.

 

The CHEAT is the guy who shot 79 and posted 86.

 

;)

 

Let's me clarify - sandbagging IS cheating. They are exactly the same in principle regardless of how different the circumstances in the scenarios provided.

 

So the player who shoots 79 and posts 86 is a cheat... but you're going to give a pass to the guy who would've shot 79, but through creative license over the back nine inflates his score by 7 shots to "shoot" 86? Sandbagging is just a sugarcoated synonym for cheating.

 

Also, while it may not have a bearing on the event's results, I would report the "79-shooter, 86-poster" to the handicap committee and at least have his index reduced due to exceptional T-scores. He may likely be subject to greater repercussions given his blatant misposting, er cheating.

[Break81]

Putting in 86 is cheating, but anyone who's HC has jumped from 5 to 14 shouldn't be allowed to play as a 14 (unless a result of a medical reason or 10 years away from golf).

 

Of course my HC is rising as I am trying to not be a vanity capper (all due to putting)......

Huh? So your putting excuse is a valid reason for your handicap to go up but a person who goes from 5 to 14 can't use the 14 in your opinion? I agree if they are getting there by putting in high scores they did not shoot they need to be called out but other things can happen to cause it as well.

 

No I am saying my putting is lousy and no longer taking gimmes and thus seeing my HC creep up.

 

Now if someone goes from a 5-14 because they have some physical issues, I can get it. What I can't is that they just got worse...... A 5 who goes to a 14 and still plays regularly is CHEATING......

As long as physical issues include mental issues I agree. We have all seen players go up 6-9 strokes in a relatively short time because they simply lost it.

to move your index that much would have to take someone a while unless they are playing multiple times a week.

 

I slumped pretty hard last year and it took 6 months to go from a 9.5 to a 12 , and another 6 months to bring it back down to a 10.4

[Shilgy]

Putting in 86 is cheating, but anyone who's HC has jumped from 5 to 14 shouldn't be allowed to play as a 14 (unless a result of a medical reason or 10 years away from golf).

 

Of course my HC is rising as I am trying to not be a vanity capper (all due to putting)......

Huh? So your putting excuse is a valid reason for your handicap to go up but a person who goes from 5 to 14 can't use the 14 in your opinion? I agree if they are getting there by putting in high scores they did not shoot they need to be called out but other things can happen to cause it as well.

 

No I am saying my putting is lousy and no longer taking gimmes and thus seeing my HC creep up.

 

Now if someone goes from a 5-14 because they have some physical issues, I can get it. What I can't is that they just got worse...... A 5 who goes to a 14 and still plays regularly is CHEATING......

As long as physical issues include mental issues I agree. We have all seen players go up 6-9 strokes in a relatively short time because they simply lost it.

to move your index that much would have to take someone a while unless they are playing multiple times a week.

 

I slumped pretty hard last year and it took 6 months to go from a 9.5 to a 12 , and another 6 months to bring it back down to a 10.4

Yes it would take about 20 scores probably to move up that much. For some that is a few weeks and for others a few months. It will generally go down a lot faster than it will go up.

[ruca]

Putting in 86 is cheating, but anyone who's HC has jumped from 5 to 14 shouldn't be allowed to play as a 14 (unless a result of a medical reason or 10 years away from golf).

 

Of course my HC is rising as I am trying to not be a vanity capper (all due to putting)......

Huh? So your putting excuse is a valid reason for your handicap to go up but a person who goes from 5 to 14 can't use the 14 in your opinion? I agree if they are getting there by putting in high scores they did not shoot they need to be called out but other things can happen to cause it as well.

 

No I am saying my putting is lousy and no longer taking gimmes and thus seeing my HC creep up.

 

Now if someone goes from a 5-14 because they have some physical issues, I can get it. What I can't is that they just got worse...... A 5 who goes to a 14 and still plays regularly is CHEATING......

As long as physical issues include mental issues I agree. We have all seen players go up 6-9 strokes in a relatively short time because they simply lost it.

to move your index that much would have to take someone a while unless they are playing multiple times a week.

 

I slumped pretty hard last year and it took 6 months to go from a 9.5 to a 12 , and another 6 months to bring it back down to a 10.4

 

That is kind of the point. Although you slumped, your potential to play to around 9 never really changed,which is why your hcp didn’t go up too much. As evidenced by the fact that you came back down

Hcps aren’t supposed to reflect your form,but your potential. I think this gets forgotten sometimes.

[nsxguy]

Yep 9 holes....... Did that too this year, don't ask about the back 9......

 

Talking to my neighbour who would be a perfect golfwrx member. He (a 6HC) plays all his events and enjoys competition. He was in the matchplay finals against the former 5HC, now a 14HC. 70km winds and neighbour plays a really solid round of 79..... Got smoked by the 14 who too shot 79 in tough conditions making up and downs no 14HC should make and birdieing 2 of the first 6 holes.

 

He then talks to the the person who lost in the semis to the 14HC. Was told he too got trounced as the 14HC shot surprise surprise a 79 as well that day. When he checked the system the 14HC put in an 86.....

 

Champions dinner over so while reported too late to do anything....

 

You're not describing a sandbagger. You're describing a CHEAT. Similar but not exactly the same thing.

 

Please explain the difference.

 

Sure. The simple version ?

 

The sandbagger is one who's not trying his best to make the best score he can.

 

The CHEAT is the guy who shot 79 and posted 86.

 

;)

 

Let's me clarify - sandbagging IS cheating. They are exactly the same in principle regardless of how different the circumstances in the scenarios provided.

 

So the player who shoots 79 and posts 86 is a cheat... but you're going to give a pass to the guy who would've shot 79, but through creative license over the back nine inflates his score by 7 shots to "shoot" 86? Sandbagging is just a sugarcoated synonym for cheating.

 

Also, while it may not have a bearing on the event's results, I would report the "79-shooter, 86-poster" to the handicap committee and at least have his index reduced due to exceptional T-scores. He may likely be subject to greater repercussions given his blatant misposting, er cheating.

 

Your reply is not unexpected. I can usually see a "set up" when I see it. And as I've seen you do elsewhere.

 

And I certainly instances where someone could say they're the same.

 

But I'm not talking about the guy who purposely misses a 3 foot putt, even while making it "look good" to the rest of his group.

 

I'm talking about the guy who is not intentionally inflating his score but the guy who, with zero importance on his round, takes chances and/or tries shots he otherwise wouldn't.

 

Kinda sorta like the tournament/casual round issue and all the problems some people have with the differences.

 

There are 2 sides to that coin as well. Some people play casual rounds and try shots they wouldn't under tournament conditions, including, but not limited to, trying to hit fades around corners when they don't trust the fade, trying to go over trees on a dogleg, trying to carve a low punch out towards or even near a green, etc., etc., etc. where the prudent play, more likely to result in his best possible score, would be to chip out and try to wedge it close and maybe make a putt (& not do those udder things too).

 

All sorts of reasons for not having your "best ever" round (or even a handicap round) as a casual one.

 

But when he's playing a tournament ALL that stuff goes away & he grinds everything out.

 

And then there's the opposite, the guy who, when there's nothing on the line, executes about as well as he possibly can but when there's something on the line, the grip tightens, so does the collar on his shirt and he can barely hold the club,,,,,,,,,, so he ends up looking, to the rest of his fellow competitors, like a "vanity" capper.

 

Don't agree ? Up to you. :dntknw: