What are the odds a 17 HC shoots 5 over in a tournament?

[platgof]

I could see myself doing this sometime. I am a 16 off the white tees, and play senior tees at Tournaments. So far 86, and 84.

[mrbojanglezs]

Problem with these players is some of them are good players but will have blowup holes.

 

For example mostly bogeys and pars then an 8 or a 10 on a hole, but for handicap posting you are not supposed to count those high scores for my handicap the highest score I can post is a double bogey....

[TollBros]

The last handicap tournament I played in, a 12 handicap shot even par and won the whole thing. Never again. Nothing worse in golf than a sandbagger.

[finleysg]

The (very predictable) whinging in threads like this help to remind me of how grateful I am to have found a good club. We have gross and net events every week, and the number of sandbagger accusations on the net side is extremely small. We had a 17 capper shoot 37 last night, and rather than b***hing behind his back, the reaction I saw was a constant stream of congratulations.

 

That's because we know each other. We know without a doubt that 17 is totally appropriate for this player. And we know last night was lightning in a bottle.

 

The club has a history of dealing with legit cheating, too, so that helps put everyone at ease about those low rounds, because with up to 270 guys playing each Wednesday night, the net winners are going to be pretty good scores.

 

Last guy that was booted out of the club got caught putting in a high internet score for a scramble! He didn't know that one of our former assistant pros was at the course that hosted the scramble, and the young pro did some checking after the event and saw the guy had put in a T score of 90+ for this scramble.

 

He was under suspicion because his club tournament scores were consistently out of line with his internet scores. This guy was definitely getting some grumbles. After the incident about the scramble score, he was invited to explain to the board. Didn't show up, and got booted. Pro shop money was frozen. The handicap committee also notified our state organization and his cap was frozen for 2 years at about 2/3 of what he played in our events.

[golfer07840]

I recently played in an outing. Some guy claims he shot 64. Even if he were a scratch, the odds of shooting 64 (course rating from the set of tees was 67.5/127) are pretty incredible. He took him a big silver bowl. How nobody called him out on it is beyond me. I had a family obligation, so I didn't stay after the round for the announcements of scores and such.

[KyGolf]

I recently played in an outing. Some guy claims he shot 64. Even if he were a scratch, the odds of shooting 64 (course rating from the set of tees was 67.5/127) are pretty incredible. He took him a big silver bowl. How nobody called him out on it is beyond me. I had a family obligation, so I didn't stay after the round for the announcements of scores and such.

 

 

Was nobody marking his card?

[golfer07840]

I recently played in an outing. Some guy claims he shot 64. Even if he were a scratch, the odds of shooting 64 (course rating from the set of tees was 67.5/127) are pretty incredible. He took him a big silver bowl. How nobody called him out on it is beyond me. I had a family obligation, so I didn't stay after the round for the announcements of scores and such.

 

 

Was nobody marking his card?

Good question. I have no idea. It was 18 groups of 4, shotgun start now here is the odd thing. It was a shamble format. It was a team event. YET, they gave an award for lowest gross to an individual. Now how does that happen for a team event? It's B.S.

 

And the amazing part is, the dopes I work with are like "hey he shot 64, live with it." Talk about clueless.

[Shilgy]

I recently played in an outing. Some guy claims he shot 64. Even if he were a scratch, the odds of shooting 64 (course rating from the set of tees was 67.5/127) are pretty incredible. He took him a big silver bowl. How nobody called him out on it is beyond me. I had a family obligation, so I didn't stay after the round for the announcements of scores and such.

A scratch shooting 3.5 strokes under his handicap happens once in every 100 rounds. Not exactly a rarity. That said with it a shamble the odds are even less amazing. Stupid to give a low gross award in that format? Yes. Doubtful occurrence? Heck no.

[golfer07840]

I recently played in an outing. Some guy claims he shot 64. Even if he were a scratch, the odds of shooting 64 (course rating from the set of tees was 67.5/127) are pretty incredible. He took him a big silver bowl. How nobody called him out on it is beyond me. I had a family obligation, so I didn't stay after the round for the announcements of scores and such.

A scratch shooting 3.5 strokes under his handicap happens once in every 100 rounds. Not exactly a rarity. That said with it a shamble the odds are even less amazing. Stupid to give a low gross award in that format? Yes. Doubtful occurrence? Heck no.

 

Well even if he shot a 64 in the shamble, it's not a true 64 is it? Unless they used every single one of his drives and his final score on every hole. Which I doubt very much.

[smeech8000]

I recently played in an outing. Some guy claims he shot 64. Even if he were a scratch, the odds of shooting 64 (course rating from the set of tees was 67.5/127) are pretty incredible. He took him a big silver bowl. How nobody called him out on it is beyond me. I had a family obligation, so I didn't stay after the round for the announcements of scores and such.

A scratch shooting 3.5 strokes under his handicap happens once in every 100 rounds. Not exactly a rarity. That said with it a shamble the odds are even less amazing. Stupid to give a low gross award in that format? Yes. Doubtful occurrence? Heck no.

 

Well even if he shot a 64 in the shamble, it's not a true 64 is it? Unless they used every single one of his drives and his final score on every hole. Which I doubt very much.

 

They wouldn't have to use his final score on every hole - i.e. their team score could have been even better if another member birdied one of the few holes the other guy parred.

 

I recall a recent thread that discussed this exact potential situation; I believe the OP was wondering if his drive was used on every hole, if the score would be postable because theoretically he could play each hole without touching his ball and otherwise in accordance with the RoG.

 

Not sure how it ended up though. :beruo:

[Shilgy]

I recently played in an outing. Some guy claims he shot 64. Even if he were a scratch, the odds of shooting 64 (course rating from the set of tees was 67.5/127) are pretty incredible. He took him a big silver bowl. How nobody called him out on it is beyond me. I had a family obligation, so I didn't stay after the round for the announcements of scores and such.

A scratch shooting 3.5 strokes under his handicap happens once in every 100 rounds. Not exactly a rarity. That said with it a shamble the odds are even less amazing. Stupid to give a low gross award in that format? Yes. Doubtful occurrence? Heck no.

 

Well even if he shot a 64 in the shamble, it's not a true 64 is it? Unless they used every single one of his drives and his final score on every hole. Which I doubt very much.

No it's not a true 64. But in your post you said the odds were "incredible" for a scratch to shoot that number on that course. They are not. But then he really probably didn't shoot 64 either.

[golfer07840]

I recently played in an outing. Some guy claims he shot 64. Even if he were a scratch, the odds of shooting 64 (course rating from the set of tees was 67.5/127) are pretty incredible. He took him a big silver bowl. How nobody called him out on it is beyond me. I had a family obligation, so I didn't stay after the round for the announcements of scores and such.

A scratch shooting 3.5 strokes under his handicap happens once in every 100 rounds. Not exactly a rarity. That said with it a shamble the odds are even less amazing. Stupid to give a low gross award in that format? Yes. Doubtful occurrence? Heck no.

 

Well even if he shot a 64 in the shamble, it's not a true 64 is it? Unless they used every single one of his drives and his final score on every hole. Which I doubt very much.

No it's not a true 64. But in your post you said the odds were "incredible" for a scratch to shoot that number on that course. They are not. But then he really probably didn't shoot 64 either.

I used the wrong term. A scratch to shoot 4 under his hdcp is like a 700 to 1 shot per the USGA chart.

[nsxguy]

I recently played in an outing. Some guy claims he shot 64. Even if he were a scratch, the odds of shooting 64 (course rating from the set of tees was 67.5/127) are pretty incredible. He took him a big silver bowl. How nobody called him out on it is beyond me. I had a family obligation, so I didn't stay after the round for the announcements of scores and such.

A scratch shooting 3.5 strokes under his handicap happens once in every 100 rounds. Not exactly a rarity. That said with it a shamble the odds are even less amazing. Stupid to give a low gross award in that format? Yes. Doubtful occurrence? Heck no.

 

Well even if he shot a 64 in the shamble, it's not a true 64 is it? Unless they used every single one of his drives and his final score on every hole. Which I doubt very much.

No it's not a true 64. But in your post you said the odds were "incredible" for a scratch to shoot that number on that course. They are not. But then he really probably didn't shoot 64 either.

I used the wrong term. A scratch to shoot 4 under his hdcp is like a 700 to 1 shot per the USGA chart.

 

As shilgy is trying to tell you,,,,,,

 

a) 700 to 1 is hardly incredible.

 

and

 

2) It was a shamble. So for any tee balls he knocked into the woods (or elsewhere) he could just go to the next best ball and play in from there.

 

Probably FAR LESS than 700-1.

[Shilgy]

I recently played in an outing. Some guy claims he shot 64. Even if he were a scratch, the odds of shooting 64 (course rating from the set of tees was 67.5/127) are pretty incredible. He took him a big silver bowl. How nobody called him out on it is beyond me. I had a family obligation, so I didn't stay after the round for the announcements of scores and such.

A scratch shooting 3.5 strokes under his handicap happens once in every 100 rounds. Not exactly a rarity. That said with it a shamble the odds are even less amazing. Stupid to give a low gross award in that format? Yes. Doubtful occurrence? Heck no.

 

Well even if he shot a 64 in the shamble, it's not a true 64 is it? Unless they used every single one of his drives and his final score on every hole. Which I doubt very much.

No it's not a true 64. But in your post you said the odds were "incredible" for a scratch to shoot that number on that course. They are not. But then he really probably didn't shoot 64 either.

I used the wrong term. A scratch to shoot 4 under his hdcp is like a 700 to 1 shot per the USGA chart.

When I look at the Pope of Slope chart it's 151:1 . Do you have a different chart?

[SurfDuffer]

I recently played in an outing. Some guy claims he shot 64. Even if he were a scratch, the odds of shooting 64 (course rating from the set of tees was 67.5/127) are pretty incredible. He took him a big silver bowl. How nobody called him out on it is beyond me. I had a family obligation, so I didn't stay after the round for the announcements of scores and such.

 

 

Was nobody marking his card?

Good question. I have no idea. It was 18 groups of 4, shotgun start now here is the odd thing. It was a shamble format. It was a team event. YET, they gave an award for lowest gross to an individual. Now how does that happen for a team event? It's B.S.

 

And the amazing part is, the dopes I work with are like "hey he shot 64, live with it." Talk about clueless.

 

In a shamble format with a good group it is not unthinkable for someone with good wedge and putting skills to go low.

[dan360]

50:1

 

If they do it around me first ones free but do it again and odds their wheels needing a new windscreen are 1:1

 

 

[XJared]

For Independence Day, our club had a flag tournament. Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground. So if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green, under your cap, on 1st or 2nd hole, etc...

30 players or so in the tournament. I didn't enter for obvious reasons, but I played 1 group behind the last flag group so all the flags were in by the time I came through.

2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national.

Someone calculate those odds of 25 Of 30 shooting 5 strokes under their cap.

[Under2hours]

For Independence Day, our club had a flag tournament. Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground. So if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green, under your cap, on 1st or 2nd hole, etc...

30 players or so in the tournament. I didn't enter for obvious reasons, but I played 1 group behind the last flag group so all the flags were in by the time I came through.

2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national.

Someone calculate those odds of 25 Of 30 shooting 5 strokes under their cap.

Wow the # of sandbaggers!!!!!

[Shilgy]

For Independence Day, our club had a flag tournament. Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground. So if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green, under your cap, on 1st or 2nd hole, etc...

30 players or so in the tournament. I didn't enter for obvious reasons, but I played 1 group behind the last flag group so all the flags were in by the time I came through.

2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national.

Someone calculate those odds of 25 Of 30 shooting 5 strokes under their cap.

Did they just not bother to put flag down or did you see that many on holes 1-2-3? A lot of times in an event like that folks won't bother to place their flag on 15-16 even 17.

[dan360]

For Independence Day, our club had a flag tournament. Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground. So if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green, under your cap, on 1st or 2nd hole, etc...

30 players or so in the tournament. I didn't enter for obvious reasons, but I played 1 group behind the last flag group so all the flags were in by the time I came through.

2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national.

Someone calculate those odds of 25 Of 30 shooting 5 strokes under their cap.

 

That's grounds for renting a monster truck and flattening the entire parking lot.

[nsxguy]

For Independence Day, our club had a flag tournament. Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground. So if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green, under your cap, on 1st or 2nd hole, etc...

30 players or so in the tournament. I didn't enter for obvious reasons, but I played 1 group behind the last flag group so all the flags were in by the time I came through.

2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national.

Someone calculate those odds of 25 Of 30 shooting 5 strokes under their cap.

 

Did they just not bother to put flag down or did you see that many on holes 1-2-3? A lot of times in an event like that folks won't bother to place their flag on 15-16 even 17.

 

Forgetting for the moment that I have NO idea what the "obvious reasons" were for him not participating, can someone kindly explain what the frig he's talking about ?

 

"Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground." Say what ?

 

"if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green" Huh ?

 

"2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national." :blink:

[dan360]

For Independence Day, our club had a flag tournament. Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground. So if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green, under your cap, on 1st or 2nd hole, etc...

30 players or so in the tournament. I didn't enter for obvious reasons, but I played 1 group behind the last flag group so all the flags were in by the time I came through.

2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national.

Someone calculate those odds of 25 Of 30 shooting 5 strokes under their cap.

 

Did they just not bother to put flag down or did you see that many on holes 1-2-3? A lot of times in an event like that folks won't bother to place their flag on 15-16 even 17.

 

Forgetting for the moment that I have NO idea what the "obvious reasons" were for him not participating, can someone kindly explain what the frig he's talking about ?

 

"Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground." Say what ?

 

"if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green" Huh ?

 

"2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national." :blink:

 

Let's say your hdcp gets you 6 strokes on a rated 72. That means you have 78 total strokes.

 

If you get to 16 green in 78 strokes. Stop. Plant flag. You shot over your hdcp. Sucks to be you today.

 

If you get to 18 green, hole out in 78, congrats. You shot your hdcp and are not a sandbagger.

 

If you hole out on 18 *under* 78 strokes (sandbagger) you tee up again at #1 and play til you hit 78.

 

In other words, 1-2 fairway looked like Arlington National Cemetery because all those players had strokes left after 18 and kept going.

 

It's a 4th of July thing so most of the time the flags are little American flags. Hence the reference to the National Cemetery filled up with flags on Independence

Day.

[nsxguy]

For Independence Day, our club had a flag tournament. Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground. So if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green, under your cap, on 1st or 2nd hole, etc...

30 players or so in the tournament. I didn't enter for obvious reasons, but I played 1 group behind the last flag group so all the flags were in by the time I came through.

2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national.

Someone calculate those odds of 25 Of 30 shooting 5 strokes under their cap.

 

Did they just not bother to put flag down or did you see that many on holes 1-2-3? A lot of times in an event like that folks won't bother to place their flag on 15-16 even 17.

 

Forgetting for the moment that I have NO idea what the "obvious reasons" were for him not participating, can someone kindly explain what the frig he's talking about ?

 

"Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground." Say what ?

 

"if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green" Huh ?

 

"2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national." :blink:

 

Let's say your hdcp gets you 6 strokes on a rated 72. That means you have 78 total strokes.

 

If you get to 16 green in 78 strokes. Stop. Plant flag. You shot over your hdcp. Sucks to be you today.

 

If you get to 18 green, hole out in 78, congrats. You shot your hdcp and are not a sandbagger.

 

If you hole out on 18 *under* 78 strokes (sandbagger) you tee up again at #1 and play til you hit 78.

 

In other words, 1-2 fairway looked like Arlington National Cemetery because all those players had strokes left after 18 and kept going.

 

It's a 4th of July thing so most of the time the flags are little American flags. Hence the reference to the National Cemetery filled up with flags on Independence

Day.

 

Ahhhhh, thanks so much for the explanation. :good: Never played that before.

 

Any idea why he didn't play "for obvious reasons" ? :dntknw: :D

[dan360]

For Independence Day, our club had a flag tournament. Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground. So if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green, under your cap, on 1st or 2nd hole, etc...

30 players or so in the tournament. I didn't enter for obvious reasons, but I played 1 group behind the last flag group so all the flags were in by the time I came through.

2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national.

Someone calculate those odds of 25 Of 30 shooting 5 strokes under their cap.

 

Did they just not bother to put flag down or did you see that many on holes 1-2-3? A lot of times in an event like that folks won't bother to place their flag on 15-16 even 17.

 

Forgetting for the moment that I have NO idea what the "obvious reasons" were for him not participating, can someone kindly explain what the frig he's talking about ?

 

"Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground." Say what ?

 

"if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green" Huh ?

 

"2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national." :blink:

 

Let's say your hdcp gets you 6 strokes on a rated 72. That means you have 78 total strokes.

 

If you get to 16 green in 78 strokes. Stop. Plant flag. You shot over your hdcp. Sucks to be you today.

 

If you get to 18 green, hole out in 78, congrats. You shot your hdcp and are not a sandbagger.

 

If you hole out on 18 *under* 78 strokes (sandbagger) you tee up again at #1 and play til you hit 78.

 

In other words, 1-2 fairway looked like Arlington National Cemetery because all those players had strokes left after 18 and kept going.

 

It's a 4th of July thing so most of the time the flags are little American flags. Hence the reference to the National Cemetery filled up with flags on Independence

Day.

 

Ahhhhh, thanks so much for the explanation. :good: Never played that before.

 

Any idea why he didn't play "for obvious reasons" ? :dntknw: :D

 

Probably because the obvious explanation is tournaments like that are usually full of cheating lying sandbagging piles of garbage who need to be hit In the mouth with a 2 x 4

[Shilgy]

 

 

Probably because the obvious explanation is tournaments like that are usually full of cheating lying sandbagging piles of garbage who need to be hit In the mouth with a 2 x 4

While he has an honest cap that never plays to it? We all shoot our cap or better about 20-25% of the time. Which does not mean that in a given event only 25% are allowed to shoot their cap. Their are days the weather and course make it relatively easy to score.

[nsxguy]

For Independence Day, our club had a flag tournament. Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground. So if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green, under your cap, on 1st or 2nd hole, etc...

30 players or so in the tournament. I didn't enter for obvious reasons, but I played 1 group behind the last flag group so all the flags were in by the time I came through.

2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national.

Someone calculate those odds of 25 Of 30 shooting 5 strokes under their cap.

Probably because the obvious explanation is tournaments like that are usually full of cheating lying sandbagging piles of garbage who need to be hit In the mouth with a 2 x 4

While he has an honest cap that never plays to it? We all shoot our cap or better about 20-25% of the time. Which does not mean that in a given event only 25% are allowed to shoot their cap. Their are days the weather and course make it relatively easy to score.

 

All true Shilgster but 25 out of 30 5 better ?

 

No frickin' way !!! :hunter: :hunter: :hunter:

 

So tell me what I'm (still) missing here. What's the point of the flags ? Didn't they just play a "net" game ??? :blink:

[Under2hours]

You are to shoot your HC 1X/4-5 rounds, thus with 30 golfers only 6-8 golfers should make it through 18.

 

Now anyone beating their HC by 5 shots is approximately 270:1.....

 

http://www.popeofslo...gging/odds.html

 

And I expect that this course doesn't have a 112 slope.

 

So just to be clear my HC is now 14, so in this format once I hit my 86th shot (par 72) I lay my flag down. I would have had to shoot pretty much a PB to get to #2 along with 83.33% of the field.

 

So yes 25 making it past 18 is laughable and the reason not to play money games with them.

[Shilgy]

For Independence Day, our club had a flag tournament. Start on 1, play until you hit your handicap in strokes, and put your flag in the ground. So if you shot your handicap, your flag would be at 18 green, under your cap, on 1st or 2nd hole, etc...

30 players or so in the tournament. I didn't enter for obvious reasons, but I played 1 group behind the last flag group so all the flags were in by the time I came through.

2 flags on 17 green, 1 in 18 fringe, 2 at 18 green. 2 fairway looked like Arlington national.

Someone calculate those odds of 25 Of 30 shooting 5 strokes under their cap.

Probably because the obvious explanation is tournaments like that are usually full of cheating lying sandbagging piles of garbage who need to be hit In the mouth with a 2 x 4

While he has an honest cap that never plays to it? We all shoot our cap or better about 20-25% of the time. Which does not mean that in a given event only 25% are allowed to shoot their cap. Their are days the weather and course make it relatively easy to score.

 

All true Shilgster but 25 out of 30 5 better ?

 

No frickin' way !!! :hunter: :hunter: :hunter:

 

So tell me what I'm (still) missing here. What's the point of the flags ? Didn't they just play a "net" game ??? :blink:

I was blind but now I see lol. I missed the "2 fairway looked like Arlington Cemetery" earlier and was thinking that many of the 25 just didn't put their flags down because they knew they had no chance of winning.

And yes, similar to a low net game with the tiebreaker of getting furthest on a hole. You and I could both be two shots onto hole number 3 but you're further on the course than I because you hit it further, or straighter.

[finleysg]

We did the flag event with tombstones. "Here lies [Player Name]. Played it in October. Winner made it to second tee (holed his putt with his last gasp). If I remember correctly, we had only a handful of players make it past 18 out of a field of 40-50.

[Break81]

The problem with some clubs (1 that I play in) is that the guys who regularly finish in the money, also have a tight knit group within the club, and are the same guys that play against other clubs early in the year in club vs club competition. IIRC about 6 clubs play over 8 weeks in a round robin type of set up.

 

The guys who seem to be baggin a little, would never get in trouble from anyone who runs the club. It a little like surfers and their "locals" get the good waves policy.

 

I have shot some pretty good scores in this group and only have cashed money on closest to the pin or skins. I also played in an SCGA event where a 26 cap shot and 86 to win by 5 or 6 stokes.

 

I will continue to play in tournaments for the near future, as I like the formats and friendships, but it's absolutely has a dirty feel to them on occasion.