Thoughts on Couch Potatoes Calling in Penalties

[mallrat]

 

 

Or just someone who thinks they are better than everyone else. Sound familiar?

 

The other problem is we are making A LOT of assumptions that the person who informed the tour is doing this for the good of the game. What if the person didn't like the player, had money riding on it or just wanted or had an interest in someone else winning?

 

 

That's quite an implication. Was there an infraction regardless of motivation?

 

Never said I had issue with the violation but you can go on taking exception to everything I post, no worries.

 

Also the first post of my you replied to was pretty sarcastic, smile sometimes life is more enjoyable that way.

[bladehunter]

what we are witnessing is the bubble being burst on the truman show that has been for decades the idea that golf is played 100% by the written rule... I hasnt been and it cannot be... not 100% of the time... there are too many things like this, the rule of not touching anything in a hazard , backswing and all, touchign a grain of sand in a trap etc.. these things have been broken by everyone from hacker to major champ and not been caught by anyone.. including the offenders.... But now that is over.... and some have their shocked faces on.... im not talking about the ones who are angry over the decision.. i mean the ones who think "rules are rules" .... well under this microscope the game will die in the eye of public opinion ..why ? it defies common sense.... The truth is being told and it wont get easier to hear...

 

Easy to sling arrows - if I accept your premise, what do we do about it?

 

 

rules should have been changed on the green before this years seasons started... replace it and re putt ...no penalty .. why ittakes teh usga 10 years to print a rule addition ill never know.. they pray over soemthing more than a baptist chruch raising money for a youth trip... and thats alot

[TollBros]

1. Call ins are ridiculous. There is no reason that an outside party (especially an anonymous one) should have any influence on the sport.

 

2. Calls in are inequitable and biased. Only golfers who are shown on camera, and only the shots that are shown can be viewed and reviewed by fans at home.

 

3. Regardless of the actually act, it is incomprehensible to me that you could assess her the penalty for an incorrect score card. Clearly she can't sign a different score if no penalty was assessed during the round. How this continues to happen is beyond me.

 

4. There has to be a time limit for when shots can be reviewed, and all penalties MUST be assessed before the signing of the scorecard. If not then, then by the beginning of the next round and they get rid of the penalty strokes for a wrong scorecard.

 

All of this is horses$%@

 

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[CCTxGolf]

I think it is important the LPGA find out exactly who reported the infraction. The infraction was next to impossible to be spotted by a golf fan watching the tournament. IMO, it could be someone connected to a player that was trailing Thompson. Someone that spent hours scrutinizing previous round replays to try and find any possible infraction to help their player.

 

But she still cheated

Actually, it appears that she may have broken a rule. Kind of hard to tell, exactly, if she even did that, cameras what they are and all.

Try to remember, breaking a rule is not cheating unless there is clear evidence that the rule breaking was a deliberate act for the purpose of gaining advantage.

Had the RB felt that she had cheated, I believe a DQ would have been in order.

 

What other reason would a pro golfer, that knows the rules, and has marked thousands of golf balls have for marking a golf ball then replacing it in a better position? I know that they did not DQ her. I also know she knows how to mark a golf ball.

The LPGA really knows the rules.

It says, no cheating. What makes you more knowledgeable than the LPGA in this matter, do you suppose?

 

Well aware that the LPGA did not call her a cheater. I am not more knowledgeable than they. It is my opinion that is shared by many others. She knows how to play golf and make a score. She also knows what she does not like to see on a short putt line. LPGA has their own opinion and I know the politics of calling a huge star, that drives their market, a cheater would not play well with viewers and golf fans. Just look how bent out of shape people Are getting on this forum by the thought of Lexi cheating. On paper she did not cheat and that is great news for her. I believe, again only my opinion, that she got away with one by not having the "cheater" blemish on her record, but she still got burned bad enough to lose because she got caught moving a ball. Sorry if i made you think I know more than the LPGA, I don't. I do however have an opinion. Which is not worth a damn thing to anybody that does not value it.

[Pepperturbo]

Only sport that does this. Absolutely ridiculous. Can you imagine if the NFL allowed this. 8 hr games. Needs to stop

 

I keep reading this type of comparision and it's ridiculous. First, other sports have officials on the field. Second, players aren't expected to call penalites on themselves in other sports. That's where golf is different and this type of comparision can't be made.

 

Yes, golf is different and other sports have officials, yet they use instant replay to decide what is and what isn't. Sure, professional golfers and amateurs call penalties on themselves, but we know that is not the end here. Professionals have officials nearby, "IF" they need advice, or they may call upon a playing partner for advise. But we're talking about a professional that innocently didn't know she made a mistake, and some doofus watching TV changed her life and the tournament outcome. Its wrong!

 

Some lard bottom couch doofus was watching a recording the day after, and saw the mistake. I find that interesting since I too watched that round a day after on a HD 4k big screen where I can see a nats azz, and didn't note her mistake. Begs the question what motivated that viewer to look that closely, and why didn't Lexi's playing partners notice?

 

What's worse, that noodle emailed his concern a day later, motivating Rules to review the video of the day before. Lexi had already signed a card thinking it was correct. Its one thing to take in on the chin for an earlier mistake that same day; its all together another when it happens a day earlier and the penalties accumulate and hit a day later... causing 4 stroke penalty. Wrong.

 

Beg to differ. That video makes it super obvious. Even Tirico(?) says when she puts the coin down, you can't see it because of the ball, then when you replace it, you can see all of the coin. She knew what she was doing. We don't know her intent as to whether she was just careless or trying to avoid a spike mark/depression (this would be full blown cheating), but it was supremely obvious that the ball wasn't replaced properly.

 

Yeah, after they blew the image up. The camera never purposely zooms in on the actions of a person marking the ball, so you can see the ball mark itself.

[Bob57]

While the USGA might have wanted to overlook it, they probably feared the diaper wearing moron that called it in would take to today's heroin-like social media and gone nuts. If overlooked the twitites would be saying Trump and the Russians hacked/colluded/meddled/influenced/fiddled with the rules to make Lexi the winner...

[HighSpeedScene]

Why do people feel that pejorative language about the person (major experience rules official, btw) somehow burnishes their argument?

 

Diaper wearing? Wut?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Only sport that does this. Absolutely ridiculous. Can you imagine if the NFL allowed this. 8 hr games. Needs to stop

 

I keep reading this type of comparision and it's ridiculous. First, other sports have officials on the field. Second, players aren't expected to call penalites on themselves in other sports. That's where golf is different and this type of comparision can't be made.

 

Yes, golf is different and other sports have officials, yet they use instant replay to decide what is and what isn't. Sure, professional golfers and amateurs call penalties on themselves, but we know that is not the end here. Professionals have officials nearby, "IF" they need advice, or they may call upon a playing partner for advise. But we're talking about a professional that innocently didn't know she made a mistake, and some doofus watching TV changed her life and the tournament outcome. Its wrong!

 

Some lard bottom couch doofus was watching a recording the day after, and saw the mistake. I find that interesting since I too watched that round a day after on a HD 4k big screen where I can see a nats azz, and didn't note her mistake. Begs the question what motivated that viewer to look that closely, and why didn't Lexi's playing partners notice?

 

What's worse, that noodle emailed his concern a day later, motivating Rules to review the video of the day before. Lexi had already signed a card thinking it was correct. Its one thing to take in on the chin for an earlier mistake that same day; its all together another when it happens a day earlier and the penalties accumulate and hit a day later... causing 4 stroke penalty. Wrong.

 

Beg to differ. That video makes it super obvious. Even Tirico(?) says when she puts the coin down, you can't see it because of the ball, then when you replace it, you can see all of the coin. She knew what she was doing. We don't know her intent as to whether she was just careless or trying to avoid a spike mark/depression (this would be full blown cheating), but it was supremely obvious that the ball wasn't replaced properly.

 

Yeah, after they blew the image up. The camera never purposely zooms in on the actions of a person marking the ball, so you can see the ball mark itself.

 

Exactly! I thought zoomed in HD was a no no for reviewing possible breaches? Here is at standard zoom and I see nothing innocuous.

 

This makes me want to believe a couple of things. Someone has an ax to grind with Lexi and emailed it in after analyzing everything she does. The person that emailed it in did so late enough that it wouldn't get to rules officials until after she signed her card, knowing that it would result in a more punitive punishment.

[ctmason_98]

I am all for enforcing rules, but this whole situation brought something to mind.

 

Can we say on one hand that the integrity of the game rests with players policing themselves and one another, yet also say that we also need people away from the players to watch them too?

[mallrat]

Why do people feel that pejorative language about the person (major experience rules official, btw) somehow burnishes their argument?

 

Diaper wearing? Wut?

 

Has it been confirmed who emailed it in? I read it was a rules official from a major tour. But has any of that been confirmed and/or what tour?

[HighSpeedScene]

 

 

Or just someone who thinks they are better than everyone else. Sound familiar?

 

The other problem is we are making A LOT of assumptions that the person who informed the tour is doing this for the good of the game. What if the person didn't like the player, had money riding on it or just wanted or had an interest in someone else winning?

 

 

That's quite an implication. Was there an infraction regardless of motivation?

 

Never said I had issue with the violation but you can go on taking exception to everything I post, no worries.

 

Also the first post of my you replied to was pretty sarcastic, smile sometimes life is more enjoyable that way.

 

If you have no problem with the violation being correctly recognized, what is this problem you reference about motivation? I mean, does it matter what someone's motivation is if the rule is applied correctly?

 

I'm not upset or targeting you - just trying to have a discussion that you seem intent in derailing (without, I should add, actually addressing the point of the discussion) by making allegations about me personally.

 

I won't take the bait return volley with you, not will I assume anything about you - just talking here. You're the one firing off insults.

[Goldenchang]

Maybe the caddies and playing partners didn't notice the infraction because they were focussing on their own shots and not what they thought to be a tap in without marking. Maybe they in good faith expected Lexi to mark and replace correctly. I'm pretty sure if one was looking for it, they would have seen it. The minimum the ball was moved was the diameter of the coin/marker.

 

Yes, maybe there has to be more oversight in terms of enforcement. I don't think it was unfair. It's the extra penalties (and previous DQs) that are the deterrent to cheating/creative ball placement in the absence of the ability to police everyone at every minute. No matter how or when it was caught doesn't change the fact that the rule was broken.

 

No matter where you stand on Lexis intent, I'm pretty sure there are going to be many more eyes watching her marking tendencies for a long time and that's what she sowed by either getting caught for it once in a high profile situation or having been getting away with it for a long time. And the fact that someone will be called out on it in a Major will most certainly deter most others from trying it in that situation in the future. That's how the rules protect the field. That's how laws protect society. Not every one gets caught for stealing, assault, murder, BUT hopefully the possibility of jail time deters most from committing the crime.

[mallrat]

1st, was/is everyone under the same scrutiny? No, this is where a large part of what I don't agree with comes in.

 

Yes it absolutely matters. What if the person wanted Petterson or another player to win or had bet money on said player and waited until Saturday's round was over. Was their intention to have a 2 shot penalty called or wait until she signed an incorrect scorecard and get her DQ'd? Or to throw her off and hopefully get her to fold mentally?

 

The 2 stroke penalty is what it is but he additional 2 strokes, IMO are not applied properly.

 

 

[bladehunter]

I am all for enforcing rules, but this whole situation brought something to mind.

 

Can we say on one hand that the integrity of the game rests with players policing themselves and one another, yet also say that we also need people away from the players to watch them too?

 

The hypocrisy runs deep doesn't it.

[dlam]

Imagine this scenario at the Pitts-Ott game a week ago

 

Kerry Fraser :(calling video review centre NHL) Hey did you see the play in the first period Crosby slashed Methot in the hand and deserves a penalty plus extra two for drawing blood

NHL video review centre : Thanks but we have referees at the game to assess penalties

Kerry Fraser: Yea I know but on TV you can see the miss calls. This was fairly obvious on HD and can see Methot finger cut You have to give him a penalty before the game ends

NHL :You might be right but the hockey game is already in the third period now and this happen in the first. We don't accept calls from fans anyway

KF: I'm not a fan. I'm a retired head official of the NHL I know what I'm seeing and it's a missed call. You have to assess a penalty it's the right thing to do

NHL: We appreciate your input but it's against the spirit of the game to give a penalty after the fact

KF. F*ck the spirit of the game! Crosby broke the rules He's got to pay You need to enforce the rule book!

 

 

 

My apologies to KF and Crosby. It's just a fictional account for humorous purposes

[Goldenchang]

I am all for enforcing rules, but this whole situation brought something to mind.

 

Can we say on one hand that the integrity of the game rests with players policing themselves and one another, yet also say that we also need people away from the players to watch them too?

 

The hypocrisy runs deep doesn't it.

 

Reminds you of all those boarding schools that run on the honor code, but if one was caught cheating by a fellow student or teacher, they'd be expelled. Something just isn't quite right about that.

[HighSpeedScene]

1st, was/is everyone under the same scrutiny? No, this is where a large part of what I don't agree with comes in.

 

Yes it absolutely matters. What if the person wanted Petterson or another player to win or had bet money on said player and waited until Saturday's round was over. Was their intention to have a 2 shot penalty called or wait until she signed an incorrect scorecard and get her DQ'd? Or to throw her off and hopefully get her to fold mentally?

 

The 2 stroke penalty is what it is but he additional 2 strokes, IMO are not applied properly.

 

Which Lexi could have mitigated - it was entirely within her control to apply the penalty and sign a correct card. Or, for that matter, to mark properly.

 

I like the fact that there is nothing absolving a player of their responsibility. Didn't all the other FCs have to abide by the correct card rule? Why should Lexi be exempt?

[HighSpeedScene]

I am all for enforcing rules, but this whole situation brought something to mind.

 

Can we say on one hand that the integrity of the game rests with players policing themselves and one another, yet also say that we also need people away from the players to watch them too?

 

The hypocrisy runs deep doesn't it.

 

I'm afraid I honestly don't see the hypocrisy - or perhaps because I don't think they need more officials I'm not being hypocritical.

 

To me the hypocrisy is when people say that call-ins aren't fair because not everyone is on camera the same amount. The list if things that are not the same for every player in golf is LONG. Jack has famously said that he never lost a ball as a professional. Think having a huge gallery had any impact on that? How should we address that inequity?

[Goldenchang]

I am all for enforcing rules, but this whole situation brought something to mind.

 

Can we say on one hand that the integrity of the game rests with players policing themselves and one another, yet also say that we also need people away from the players to watch them too?

 

The hypocrisy runs deep doesn't it.

 

I'm afraid I honestly don't see the hypocrisy - or perhaps because I don't think they need more officials I'm not being hypocritical.

 

To me the hypocrisy is when people say that call-ins aren't fair because not everyone is on camera the same amount. The list if things that are not the same for every player in golf is LONG. Jack has famously said that he never lost a ball as a professional. Think having a huge gallery had any impact on that? How should we address that inequity?

 

Agreed. And if you don't want to be so "unfairly penalized", then don't commit any infractions.

[bladehunter]

I am all for enforcing rules, but this whole situation brought something to mind.

 

Can we say on one hand that the integrity of the game rests with players policing themselves and one another, yet also say that we also need people away from the players to watch them too?

 

The hypocrisy runs deep doesn't it.

 

I'm afraid I honestly don't see the hypocrisy - or perhaps because I don't think they need more officials I'm not being hypocritical.

 

To me the hypocrisy is when people say that call-ins aren't fair because not everyone is on camera the same amount. The list if things that are not the same for every player in golf is LONG. Jack has famously said that he never lost a ball as a professional. Think having a huge gallery had any impact on that? How should we address that inequity?

 

 

Here are my thoughts on that part. Say you have a teenager. You tell them you trust them. Yet you show otherwise by tracing their phone , installing a electronic Nannie in their car and smelling their breathe everytime you see them. Now don't get me wrong , I wouldn't trust a teenager either. BuT, I would be honest and tell them I didn't and why. They aren't worthy of trust yet. Their brains aren't even fully developed. Trust comes in your twenties if you didn't F up bad as a teen.

 

 

Same here. Don't trust players. Fine. But don't lie and say things like " self policing " and " integrity and honor ".

[chris975d]

Well Phil just made some interesting comments on the ball marking and Lexi situation. He stated that it's known that lots of players intentionally and unintentionally move their ball during remarking those doing intentionally are doing it to get out of depressions, etc.

 

And said that he feels the Lexi decision should be reversed, and Lexi should be given the trophy.

[North Texas]

Here's my opinion followed by a theory.

 

Watching the real-time version, unless you knew to be looking for it, you would have never noticed anything out of the ordinary.

 

The person who reported it was alerted to look for it by someone who was close to the action. Either a fan, a player, or a caddie.

[HighSpeedScene]

I am all for enforcing rules, but this whole situation brought something to mind.

 

Can we say on one hand that the integrity of the game rests with players policing themselves and one another, yet also say that we also need people away from the players to watch them too?

 

The hypocrisy runs deep doesn't it.

 

I'm afraid I honestly don't see the hypocrisy - or perhaps because I don't think they need more officials I'm not being hypocritical.

 

To me the hypocrisy is when people say that call-ins aren't fair because not everyone is on camera the same amount. The list if things that are not the same for every player in golf is LONG. Jack has famously said that he never lost a ball as a professional. Think having a huge gallery had any impact on that? How should we address that inequity?

 

 

Here are my thoughts on that part. Say you have a teenager. You tell them you trust them. Yet you show otherwise by tracing their phone , installing a electronic Nannie in their car and smelling their breathe everytime you see them. Now don't get me wrong , I wouldn't trust a teenager either. BuT, I would be honest and tell them I didn't and why. They aren't worthy of trust yet. Their brains aren't even fully developed. Trust comes in your twenties if you didn't F up bad as a teen.

 

 

Same here. Don't trust players. Fine. But don't lie and say things like " self policing " and " integrity and honor ".

 

Yeah, I get where you are coming from. I don't think those arguments carry much water either. Or, it may be a nice thing to think, but it doesn't mean anything

[youraway2]

The game is based on the integrity of the player. The playing field is not confined as in other sports. If a player violates a rule, it's irrelevant of how it was discovered. Play by the rules and if you violate them, accept the appropriate penalty. If you don't like coach potatoes calling in infractions; address it to the LPGA or PGA Tour, it has nothing to do with the Rules of Golf. Calling in, or reporting an infraction one might say, is oversight. The bottom line is the entire field was protected and the player who violated a rule wasn't allowed to fudge the position of the ball.

 

Hogwash.

 

It is mathematically improbable to set your ball down in the same exact spot every time you mark your ball. Not only is it unlikely, but it takes luck to get it in the same exact spot. Had Lexi marked and went behind her ball for 5 seconds, no one knows. Had the picture not been blown up with a STILL shot, no one knows. You could not tell in real time with the naked eye.

I'm having trouble understanding your response to my comment. Are you saying it's "hogwash" that the game is based on the integrity of the player? Are you saying she shouldn't have been penalized for incorrectly replacing the ball? Are you saying she didn't do anything wrong? If yes, then you should read her own comment concerning how she replaced the ball. She said she didn't realize she putt the ball back in a different position. She saw the video and didn't disagree that she played from the wrong place. I may be incorrect but don't think so ........

[youraway2]

Here's my opinion followed by a theory.

 

Watching the real-time version, unless you knew to be looking for it, you would have never noticed anything out of the ordinary.

 

The person who reported it was alerted to look for it by someone who was close to the action. Either a fan, a player, or a caddie.

 

Yes, totally agreee

[Outlier]

While the USGA might have wanted to overlook it, they probably feared the diaper wearing moron that called it in would take to today's heroin-like social media and gone nuts. If overlooked the twitites would be saying Trump and the Russians hacked/colluded/meddled/influenced/fiddled with the rules to make Lexi the winner...

 

Which is of course exactly what happened.

[Outlier]

Here's my opinion followed by a theory.

 

Watching the real-time version, unless you knew to be looking for it, you would have never noticed anything out of the ordinary.

 

The person who reported it was alerted to look for it by someone who was close to the action. Either a fan, a player, or a caddie.

 

Yes, totally agreee

 

Exactly why I think full transparency is in order. They should have come out with a name, this anonymous stuff reeks.

[SurfDuffer]

The simple truth is Lexi was cheating and got caught. Watch the video....the stands over that putt and saw something she didn't like about the lie or the line and she purposely gave herself relief that she wasn't entitled to. Could have been a spike mark or some other aspect of the green she didn't want to putt through. The saw something and changed her ball position to avoid it.

[Hawkeye77]

The simple truth is Lexi was cheating and got caught. Watch the video....the stands over that putt and saw something she didn't like about the lie or the line and she purposely gave herself relief that she wasn't entitled to. Could have been a spike mark or some other aspect of the green she didn't want to putt through. The saw something and changed her ball position to avoid it.

 

Still think if you look carefully you can even see what may be "it".

[knockdstiff]

Seems pretty clear from the video that something against the rules happened.

 

Intentional or not....I don't think the conversation is really about THIS specific time. It's more about why this should/shouldn't happen in televised sports in general. If we agree that it'd be nuts to have this happen in NFL/NHL/MLB/NBA....why is it OK for golf? Like I get that not every play is televised, golf is different, players are supposed to be honorable and call stuff on themselves....yes OK but in the event they're not, is the fallback solution that we just outsource it to whoever happens to be watching?

 

People love to troll...we're gonna start seeing some tournaments with a dozen+ call-in penalties. Then the governing bodies might actually do something sustainable.