Crossfield on staff with Titleist (MERGED)

[Patrick_O]

I have moved on from Crossfield. I much prefer Ali Taylor and Michael Newton for club reviews nowadays...

[High Plains Driver]

Stop making youtube people famous.

[Nixhex524]

I have moved on from Crossfield. I much prefer Ali Taylor and Michael Newton for club reviews nowadays...

 

Michael Newton is great. Love that golf swing.

[Hawkeye77]

Shiels has had an all TM bag save for putter at various points over the last three years and the rubbish he talks all but confirms he's getting paid by TM or has been, he just doesn't have the balls to say so in case it costs him viewers.

 

Most of the discussion has been somewhat reasonable, all things considered, but this is irresponsible nonsense.

[gaffs]

Shiels has had an all TM bag save for putter at various points over the last three years and the rubbish he talks all but confirms he's getting paid by TM or has been, he just doesn't have the balls to say so in case it costs him viewers.

 

None of this is even true. I have been watching Shiels regularily for 2.5+ years. He has never had even close to a full Taylormade bag. Most TM clubs he may have had in his bag at one time is like 3. Right now I don't think he has any. Taylormade must be close to dumping him too if he is secretly being paid to play there clubs and never does. Dislike him all you want, but get your facts straight.

 

JonnyKrasnodar really said this? If so, it's a complete lie.

 

I have been watching Shields for the past few years. As far as irons go, I remember him playing Ben Hogan's, Ping s56, another later Ping set and most recently Wilsons. Never TM Irons. He has been gaming Ping and the Epic driver and Callaway wedges. I think he used a M1 a few years ago. He has always had a real mixed bag.

 

To be a respected club reviewer, you have to play a mixed bag and you certainly cant be on the payroll of a club brand.

[Hawkeye77]

Shiels has had an all TM bag save for putter at various points over the last three years and the rubbish he talks all but confirms he's getting paid by TM or has been, he just doesn't have the balls to say so in case it costs him viewers.

 

None of this is even true. I have been watching Shiels regularily for 2.5+ years. He has never had even close to a full Taylormade bag. Most TM clubs he may have had in his bag at one time is like 3. Right now I don't think he has any. Taylormade must be close to dumping him too if he is secretly being paid to play there clubs and never does. Dislike him all you want, but get your facts straight.

 

He doesn't care about facts.

 

Rick is in and out of clubs like a wrxer.

 

Just irons alone, he bagged Mizunos, loved the Pings, loved the Hogans, loves the Wilson Staffs - all in the past 3 seasons. The idea he had an all TM bag at "various points" over the past 3 years in light of all his iron changes, wedge changes, putter changes, driver changes, driving iron changes, etc. is silly let alone being on its payroll.

 

Irresponsible.

[gaffs]

I am a big MC fan, but he is coming off like a baby with this. IMO

 

Taylormade doesn't think you will give their product an honest review so they chose not to send you free stuff.. ok, just go buy it and give it an honest review and prove them wrong. Don't whine about it and make some parody video.

 

He actually said exactly this... that he will buy the product himself and review it. They chose not to send him stuff before this contract so there’s obviously more to it.. maybe they don’t like being criticized for stupid golf club names or rapid release cycles or false claims about distance. Why can’t they be called out? Did they really think people would just let that stuff slide without giving them grief at some point? “Rocketballz”?? Really?!?! Lol. Mark may be childish sometimes but it literally sounds like a child named that line of clubs!!

 

You really think its because of the names? Literally everyone took the piss out of Rocketballz.

[anth]

How is Epic any better as a name? Most companies come out with stupid names at some point. I suspect this is the reason why a lot of OEMs use numbers for names -

 

917, G400, Z765, AP2, MP18 etc

[Nixhex524]

I am a big MC fan, but he is coming off like a baby with this. IMO

 

Taylormade doesn't think you will give their product an honest review so they chose not to send you free stuff.. ok, just go buy it and give it an honest review and prove them wrong. Don't whine about it and make some parody video.

 

He actually said exactly this... that he will buy the product himself and review it. They chose not to send him stuff before this contract so there’s obviously more to it.. maybe they don’t like being criticized for stupid golf club names or rapid release cycles or false claims about distance. Why can’t they be called out? Did they really think people would just let that stuff slide without giving them grief at some point? “Rocketballz”?? Really?!?! Lol. Mark may be childish sometimes but it literally sounds like a child named that line of clubs!!

 

You really think its because of the names? Literally everyone took the piss out of Rocketballz.

 

I think part of it is because of the names, yes. The rest is that lack of claimed performance by TM. Their marketing up until recently has been goofy to say the least... like the stupid commercial with the 4 police, DJ, Rose, Sergio, and I don't even remember #4.... To me, it's obvious why people would bash TM marketing. This is not to say their clubs don't perform on some level, but the marketing has rubbed people the wrong way over the years.

 

Furthermore, I will completely disagree with your statement that one has to have a mixed bag to be a good club reviewer, that's just nonsense. You don't all of a sudden change your ability to analyze a club because you play all one brand, which for the record ISN'T EVEN THE CASE with MC even though he has a contract. He IS NOT obligated to play a full Titleist bag. All this info is out there.

 

And for the record, going by that logic, "SHIELDS" is guilty too, the guy had a full Ping bag a couple years ago, maybe minus a putter. Did this disqualify him from being able to review other clubs? Not in the least IMO.

[Medic]

Shiels has had an all TM bag save for putter at various points over the last three years and the rubbish he talks all but confirms he's getting paid by TM or has been, he just doesn't have the balls to say so in case it costs him viewers.

 

Most of the discussion has been somewhat reasonable, all things considered, but this is irresponsible nonsense.

 

Shiels just did a first look on the M3 and M4 drivers and has some fairly significant concerns for how the face shape and design will affect flight. And in the few shots he took his concerns were actually justified.

 

He wouldn't state, so boldly, that the TM new tech thoughts might be off a bit if he didn't feel comfortable being completely honest.

 

Back to the OP I believe that MC's video explaining his position with TM was very reasonable. They basically wanted him to sign with them and when he didn't they said "Ok, fine - you won't be testing our products."

Lost in this was the fact that he plans on still reviewing the TM products. He'll just be buying them himself as opposed to having them sent sans any monies.

And his explanation of what/how he reviews, having been watching him for years, is dead on. He goes into the experience knowing that none of the new equipment is going to net him some amazing change in yards or consistency. He is basing his reviews on the numbers along with his opinions on looks, feel and such. And he has always advised that people should be fitted to get the best outcome.

 

Just strikes me that...

 

Ok, he signed with Titleist.

 

But Ping, Callaway and other brands will still be shooting him some products to review and test. In the big scheme of things I see his side but don't see Taylormades' - especially given that they were in the running at one point to have him sign on but were apparently going to be too restrictive on his testing of other OEMs. And as a sidenote one of the most positive reviews he has done was the new TM blades. In my measure MC has a point. Hard to imagine why TM would believe that a guy who never bagged their irons but loved them in a recent review would suddenly change is MO when it comes to reviewing processes just because he signed with Titleist. I guess he should have never tested those irons given that at the time he was signed with Callaway and UA?

[Nixhex524]

How is Epic any better as a name? Most companies come out with stupid names at some point. I suspect this is the reason why a lot of OEMs use numbers for names -

 

917, G400, Z765, AP2, MP18 etc

 

It's not. LOL There have been plenty of jokes about the Epic being Epic... I agree, it's a dumb name. LOL And yes, stupid names come out, and then they go... that doesn't mean they aren't going to get flamed for it in the moment or at the very least leave themselves open to it. We can't help ourselves!

[Medic]

How is Epic any better as a name? Most companies come out with stupid names at some point. I suspect this is the reason why a lot of OEMs use numbers for names -

 

917, G400, Z765, AP2, MP18 etc

 

It's not. LOL There have been plenty of jokes about the Epic being Epic... I agree, it's a dumb name. LOL And yes, stupid names come out, and then they go... that doesn't mean they aren't going to get flamed for it in the moment or at the very least leave themselves open to it. We can't help ourselves!

 

I see the stupid names as a brilliant marketing strategy. If the name is SO stupid that it gets those who love the game talking about it, even if it is making fun of it, then it's mission accomplished on the marketing side of things.

 

No different than some really stupid car names out there.

[PorscheFan]

MC needs to go back to recording his lessons and how he uses GC2/HMT to teach. That's his best content and maximizes his strengths (teaching skills). He's turning too much into a YT "personality" for my tastes.

 

I think his best content to date is to be found in some of his recent on-course tests and experiments. It's some of the better content out there IMO.

[PorscheFan]

I have moved on from Crossfield. I much prefer Ali Taylor and Michael Newton for club reviews nowadays...

 

I think Crossfield is one of the best voices on golf out there. He was the original guy to say what he liked about the manufacturers' marketing fluff instead of towing the line like the golf publications always did by reading their press releases almost word for word.

 

I'd argue he influenced the industry in that way. I was always confused as to why auto journalism could always give straight opinions on manufacturer product without fear of retribution, whereas we had to put up with decades of gold club 'reviewers' just slavishly rehashing marketing terms. Frankly a ridiculous situation that had to change.

 

I love Crossfield's modern instructional content. He'll happily go against the grain with regard to common golf myths and is so (Confident? Egotistical? Your choice...) as to repeatedly chide his own viewers for being more interested in driver reviews and 'bomb the driver' tips that what he sees as more valid ways to improve.

 

Having said all that, I don't know why I'd go to him for club reviews. If I was all jacked about getting a new driver the last thing I'd want to hear is someone ridiculing the marketing around that product, or reiterating that it's more about the player than the club. That isn't going to get me excited about forking over 400 bucks.

 

Shiels, on the other hand, sticks to what his audience wants... to feel excited about new clubs, and to get all giddy when he hits one further than the others.

 

Both are valid. Both are honest club reviewers IMO. Ditto for Taylor and Newton. And Teeuplo. All are generally watchable compared to the dross typically on my TV.

 

It'll be interesting to see how the Titleist alignment affects Crossfield's content, for better or for worse. It'll be more interesting to see if Titleist's move leads to an industry shift in terms of how manufacturers interact with YouTube golf personalities. I'm fairly sure there are competitors out there who are quietly waiting for a call from rival manufacturers. Whether it will happen...

[gaffs]

I am a big MC fan, but he is coming off like a baby with this. IMO

 

Taylormade doesn't think you will give their product an honest review so they chose not to send you free stuff.. ok, just go buy it and give it an honest review and prove them wrong. Don't whine about it and make some parody video.

 

He actually said exactly this... that he will buy the product himself and review it. They chose not to send him stuff before this contract so there’s obviously more to it.. maybe they don’t like being criticized for stupid golf club names or rapid release cycles or false claims about distance. Why can’t they be called out? Did they really think people would just let that stuff slide without giving them grief at some point? “Rocketballz”?? Really?!?! Lol. Mark may be childish sometimes but it literally sounds like a child named that line of clubs!!

 

You really think its because of the names? Literally everyone took the piss out of Rocketballz.

 

 

And for the record, going by that logic, "SHIELDS" is guilty too, the guy had a full Ping bag a couple years ago, maybe minus a putter. Did this disqualify him from being able to review other clubs? Not in the least IMO.

 

Rick was using all pings over 4 years ago, before he really started doing club reviews, and was just stating his channel doing instructional videos as a club/driving range pro.

 

He’s been playing a mixed bag since at least early 2015.

 

Crossfield is no longer playing the clubs he wants to play. You just can’t claim to be an impartial reviewer when you’re on the payroll.

 

Let’s see over the next year how honest he is. If he chucks out his Titleist irons or driver in favour of another brand that perform better for him, then I will eat my hat.

[Sean2]

I suppose club reviews have their place, but I've never purchased a club based on a review (or an endorsement). All the OEMs make good equipment, for me it comes down to what performs best. A review can't do that for me. And while someone may say, "Well, the reviewer makes you aware of a new piece of equipment." As avid golfers we already know about new equipment being released. :-)

[Hawkeye77]

Watching the vid now, it's not nearly as out there as I expected based on comments in here. He does come off a little disappointed more than anything, and a little shrill actually, but Titleist, ironically, has to be loving it. Almost like he's lobbying to get TM back, which is a little awkward.

 

Still a tempest in a teapot.

 

I'll keep watching Crossfield, Finch and Shiels.

 

My hope, which is really never panning out, is they go play some more classic UK courses and spend a little time in the vlogs on the features/design, etc. Wasn't a fan of a lot of the course vlogs in '17 in terms of some of the courses and how they were presented although there were a few gems.

 

 

[tnord]

is crossfield the last to figure this out?

 

i like the guy, i watch some of his videos and find a lot of his on course stuff entertaining. but being on the inside i would have thought he'd know how it all "works." and yes mark, i am now skeptical of your input on equipment because you are being paid by a mfg. that's the way it works in ALL of business, not just golf. you work for the one and generally follow orders of the people paying the bills.

 

yes mark, we SHOULD be cynical of print and tv content. when was the last time you picked up a golf digest? or watched a product segment on golf channel? they're all shills for the mfgs who buy advertising space/time.

 

the mfgs are selling lies and have been for a while. the more friendly term for that is "marketing." TM has been a grotesque offender for the longest time, but their dysfunction as a company has allowed callaway to take the lead in that department!

[Hawkeye77]

Have a listen to Finch's Tech Tuesday this week. Nothing even remotely negative in the comments about Crossfield, and handles it just fine.

[Nixhex524]

 

Rick was using all pings over 4 years ago, before he really started doing club reviews, and was just stating his channel doing instructional videos as a club/driving range pro.

 

He’s been playing a mixed bag since at least early 2015.

 

Crossfield is no longer playing the clubs he wants to play. You just can’t claim to be an impartial reviewer when you’re on the payroll.

 

Let’s see over the next year how honest he is. If he chucks out his Titleist irons or driver in favour of another brand that perform better for him, then I will eat my hat.

 

So in Ricks case, there is a reason. Or an excuse. Plus, I will venture a guess that Rick isn't paying for his gear anymore so I don't see what the difference is really, they're all trying to court him in their own right and in a way he is letting them. He paid for those irons that Dobby was given??? Yeah right!! LOL That was well coordinated by Rick and Callaway, not that it wasn't nice gesture but if Rob Potter is getting free clubs, you know damn well Rick is too. I love Ricks stuff, he is top tier and a definite go to for me, but why are people acting like he's different? He does a UA shoe review, the only shoe review I have ever seen him do and states that he won't say anything bad because he is a UA guy. Payroll or not, Mark has always seemed to give Titleist favorable reviews, not great, but never bad.

 

So yes, let's give MC time to "do him" like Titleist has stated he will still be able to do, cause if he doesn't, he is for sure going to pay for it.

[Lobber]

He is a pretty credible guy and objective tester/reviewer. So I don’t think his sponsorship will change that. At the end of the day I don’t rely on he or Sheils to make my equip decisions not because I don’t respect their opinions but because only I can truly know what works for me

[anth]

 

Rick was using all pings over 4 years ago, before he really started doing club reviews, and was just stating his channel doing instructional videos as a club/driving range pro.

 

He’s been playing a mixed bag since at least early 2015.

 

Crossfield is no longer playing the clubs he wants to play. You just can’t claim to be an impartial reviewer when you’re on the payroll.

 

Let’s see over the next year how honest he is. If he chucks out his Titleist irons or driver in favour of another brand that perform better for him, then I will eat my hat.

 

So in Ricks case, there is a reason. Or an excuse. Plus, I will venture a guess that Rick isn't paying for his gear anymore so I don't see what the difference is really, they're all trying to court him in their own right and in a way he is letting them. He paid for those irons that Dobby was given??? Yeah right!! LOL That was well coordinated by Rick and Callaway, not that it wasn't nice gesture but if Rob Potter is getting free clubs, you know damn well Rick is too. I love Ricks stuff, he is top tier and a definite go to for me, but why are people acting like he's different? He does a UA shoe review, the only shoe review I have ever seen him do and states that he won't say anything bad because he is a UA guy. Payroll or not, Mark has always seemed to give Titleist favorable reviews, not great, but never bad.

 

So yes, let's give MC time to "do him" like Titleist has stated he will still be able to do, cause if he doesn't, he is for sure going to pay for it.

 

I didn’t watch it but when Rick did a shoe review of UA did he follow up with a video complaining that Adidas would not send him free shoes to review? Did he ask? Did they offer? Did they decline via email? Did he then use that email in his next vlog? If you were adidas or Nike would you send your shoes to Rick and expect a balanced impartial review?

[BigSky59]

Here's how this thread went down. Those of you who have known me since I've been on here know I don't mind admitting when I did something stupid.

 

So I watch the Crossfield video about his Titleist change. I am about to bust. Lots of questions pop up. Lockey still in? More travel into the US? So, in this excited state I come popping in here and go right to Tour Talk. Having posted other threads in this area about other non-touring pros it was just where I went. I searched to see if there was already a thread on Mark's change and seeing none started this one.

Lesson learned - should have done full search in search bar which would have shown the other thread in Equipment.

 

I posted this thread late the night of Christmas. So shortly after I posted it I went back to doing something family related.

 

Came back the next day and saw replies showing the other thread. Crap.

So I posted an admission at that point and figured the Mods would merge it as they have done a bazillion times before. Moses even had pointed out that it was in need of a move. Unfortunately some members (new guy actually) decided to reply with "How many wins does he have on tour?" This is how a lot of threads start to head down the dark path. Fortunately most of the replies stayed on course and the newbie's reply did not serve to totally derail things.

 

The bottom line is simple. I was down with a slight (if any such thing exist) case of flu on Christmas night and was really excited to share some news about an online personality who I really enjoy. Having shared things about Crossfield, Shiels et al here in Tour Talk before I jump came into this section. I really hope that this thread does either get nuked or merged. Never was my intent to end up duplicating efforts.

You're being too hard on yourself and making it a bigger deal than it is. I never understand why people enter themselves into threads only to say that it needs to be moved/merged, and treat it as if you've committed a terrorist attack. 1st world problems, who cares if there's a similar thread somewhere else. You can always write your congressman if it's this big of a deal. Frankie says to everyone R - E - L - A - X

[carn9698]

Taylormade big own goal on this 1. Mis managed by them. They should invite him to Carlsbad and get it cleared up and move on from there. Mark is influential whether they like it or not.

 

His sense of humour is not for all, but neither is mine.

[JonnyKrasnodar]

In fact whatever.

[JonnyKrasnodar]

@jonny

 

I think you may have missed the point. By a long way.

 

The YGT comment was about commercial realities, not about MC being deceptive. If someone is sponsored by a company and you ran a rival company, why would you bother? Do you think you’re going to get a glowing review? And let’s say you did, how would the sponsor feel about that? Your on a hiding to nothing.

 

As for Shiels’ arrangement with TM I don’t care. Please don’t think this is about taking side with rival YT personalities. I just fail to see why TM have to play Mark’s game.

 

Why should they be forced to provide their product to 3rd party reviewers free of charge? It’s their company and their choice. It may be the wrong choice but that’s their decision to make. Mark can’t force them to hand over free product just like they can’t force Mark to give them a positive review.

 

As for talking about email correspondence between himself and TM. Where do I begin? How unprofessional is that? I would be very wary if I were any of the other OEMs. You never know when your personal correspondence might end up on You Tube...

 

You said he was being disingenuous. That's the point, he's the least of all on YT.

 

And yes, why would they send him product? That's a fair comment but the wider issue that is more concerning is how they go about it. And as I said there's a good many club pros trying to earn a living that they've gone after this year because they spat the dummy. My point is that it shows a lack of understanding from a supposed golf company and a complete lack of PR awareness.

 

This will damage them. And by extension all the other people that have been happily in their pocket.

[Gary Gutful]

MC needs to go back to recording his lessons and how he uses GC2/HMT to teach. That's his best content and maximizes his strengths (teaching skills). He's turning too much into a YT "personality" for my tastes.

Agree entirely with this. I think he is excellent at explaining the golf swing and looks like he'd be a great coach. I think he wants to do more than that though.

[Uhit]

I have moved on from Crossfield. I much prefer Ali Taylor and Michael Newton for club reviews nowadays...

 

He is only one club reviewer, there are already others like AskGolfNut (that fills that gap perfectly), who is at least as honest,

and way better in regard of data, or in depth reviews:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMDZszDgDcs&t=0s"]http://www.youtube....MDZszDgDcs&t=0shttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BMkb4IDbrc

 

I perceive MC mainly as a entertainer, who is watching the YT market with faster growing channels than his own (like Rick S., Golfholics, Teeuplo, etc.).

I think, he just made the decision, to change his priorities, at a time, where he is still relevant, and near the top, to get a good deal.

He also seems to put more effort in vlogs, than other content, maybe because he has more fun that way.

 

Anyway, it is great to have the increasing variety of channels, that cater different needs, and expectations.

Also it is nice to see channels improving the quality of their content (especially in regard of vlogs), like "Improve MYGOLF".

 

What I don't want to see, is a shrinking variety...

...especially niche channels, with unique content and great style, like "Fried Eggs Golf", seem to struggle in comparison to full time YouTubers,

which is somehow understandable, but sad.

 

Instructional channels, are not rare, so, that I think, that MC has no intention to strengthen that aspect, because product placement is better done in vlogs...

...and it is not that easy to reach the quality of ChrisRyanGolf, or Meandmygolf.

 

MC has his own style, and this style probably wont change much because of the Titleist deal.

So, if all is said and done, I don't think, that it is a big problem for anyone, but rather a shift in priorities and viewers.

[lkbos]

Mark Crossfield equipment reviews pre-Titleist deal:

• looks good
  
• hits it 262
  
• try it yourself and get fit
  
• strike is king
  

Mark Crossfield equipment reviews post-Titleist deal (my prediction):

• looks good
  
• hits it 262
  
• try it yourself and get fit
  
• strike is king
  

I agree with Crossfield when he says anyone who has a problem with this simply isn't paying attention.

[dciccoritti]

Mark Crossfield equipment reviews pre-Titleist deal:

• looks good
  
• hits it 262
  
• try it yourself and get fit
  
• strike is king
  

Mark Crossfield equipment reviews post-Titleist deal (my prediction):

• looks good
  
• hits it 262
  
• try it yourself and get fit
  
• strike is king
  

I agree with Crossfield when he says anyone who has a problem with this simply isn't paying attention.

 

Epic SZ = 270 Average (Most hits between 266 & 279)

917 D2 = 253 Average (Between 250 & 256 with standard weight)

917 D2 = 259 Average (Between 256 & 260 with lighter weight)

 

I don't see 262.

 

Mark says 400 to 500 spin doesn't matter. Care to guess which driver he played most of the year? Care to guess what driver he didn't play at all last year?

 

Maybe you're the one who "isn't paying attention" ;-)