2018 NBA Season

[MtlJeff]

Kemba Walker might be the league's most underrated player now. It's early and he's coming off 2 monster games but still 30/6 on 47-39 volume shooting is pretty amazing.

 

People know Kemba is good obviously but he's doing Damian Lillard things. He also doesn't seem to get quoted much or ask for trades, or demand that the Hornets make moves etc...Kinda like late career Steve Nash in Phoenix where he's just killing guys every night for a mediocre team and you wonder what he'd do somewhere else.

 

I really wonder if they ever take calls on him. Like if New Orleans offered 3 first round picks or something. If Denver offered one of their young guards plus picks....Do they listen?

 

It's an odd situation you don't see much anymore, a star playing for a 41-41 team without much media craziness

[pinhigh27]

really don't see ingram ever being a superstar like it seems like the lakers think. It's funny to me that hart and kuzma will probably be better than ball and ingram who were supposed to be the next great lakers dynasty or whatever

[MtlJeff]

the 2017 Draft is just bonkers....Was supposed to be one of the best draft classes ever. Markelle Fultz and Lonzo were seen as can't miss superstars by almost everyone. Fultz might be out of the league soon.

 

Guys like Lonzo, Josh Jackson, Jonathan Isaac, Frank Ntilikina, Laura Markannen , Malik Monk , Kennard, Dennis Smith etc....These guys all might top out as good rotation guys, maybe not even that.

 

If you re-drafted i'd pretty confidently say it goes Mitchell/Tatum (toss up), Fox, OG Anunoby ....and then.....Kuzma ? Maybe Zach Collins? (people are actually super high on Collins as a all-NBA defender type)

 

Crazy....I mean who saw that

[raynorfan1]

the 2017 Draft is just bonkers....Was supposed to be one of the best draft classes ever. Markelle Fultz and Lonzo were seen as can't miss superstars by almost everyone. Fultz might be out of the league soon.

 

Guys like Lonzo, Josh Jackson, Jonathan Isaac, Frank Ntilikina, Laura Markannen , Malik Monk , Kennard, Dennis Smith etc....These guys all might top out as good rotation guys, maybe not even that.

 

If you re-drafted i'd pretty confidently say it goes Mitchell/Tatum (toss up), Fox, OG Anunoby ....and then.....Kuzma ? Maybe Zach Collins? (people are actually super high on Collins as a all-NBA defender type)

 

Crazy....I mean who saw that

Danny Ainge?

 

I don't think Lonzo was seen as a can't miss superstar. It was a weird mutual infatuation between Lonzo and the Lakers that led to him being picked where he was. After Boston got the first pick, there was zero talk about Lonzo coming to Boston. Zero. It was clear that the Lakers really wanted him and nobody else was really sure why.

 

You could argue (and Jason Tatum does) that Tatum was the #1 pick.

[MtlJeff]

A lot of people thought Lonzo was really, really good. The concerns on him were real (struggled against athletic defenders, gave up the ball too easily when pressed, couldn't shoot going right) but he was seen by many as a franchise player still

 

I believe the only writer who had Tatum #1 was Kevin O'Connor at the Ringer. Many had him in the 5-7 range. Actually when Boston traded down many thought it was for Josh Jackson

 

I listen to too many basketball podcasts LoL.... people loved Lonzo.

[scratchswinger]

Lonzo is pretty good. I don’t think you guys are considering that he had knee surgery not to long ago, missed the entire summer which Magic phrased “the most important of his career” and he is still adjusting playing with LeBron. LeBron impacts Zos position more than anyone’s. Mark Jackson had a good line last night “let LeBron adjust to you”. Zo had a stretch last night of basically one man fast breaks that was pretty impressive. His shot has been cold the last week but better this year. His defense, rebounding, intangibles are all off the charts. When you watch him he makes a ton of smart and unselfish plays that don’t show up on stat sheets. I mean we are 15 games into the season, I’ll bet that list above changes again in a few weeks.

[MtlJeff]

I'm not giving up on anyone in their second season, I think anyone who passes like him and can hit a catch and shoot 3 will have an important role in a team. Maybe he will still be a star

 

It just doesn't seem like as many guys are "popping" yet from this draft class, as we thought might.

 

Like when you watch a guy like Luka, it's obvious right away this guy is going to be great

[scratchswinger]

Yeah he is impressive - Ayton looks great as well. Next year will be bananas. Zion looks like a mix of Barkley, Bron, and Dominique.

[MtlJeff]

I don't think I need to say who my favorite college player is.

[tocino]

he’s probably one of the best finishers I’ve seen coming out of college in awhile if not ever. I can’t wait to see his game at the pro level.

[MtlJeff]

Anyone can look good playing next to THE GREAT RJ BARRETT

[Noles]

I think Fultz is the first basketball player to get the yips. Its really crazy and as a Sixer fan it throws salt on the wounds that he was not only a #1 pick, but that we gave up a first round pick to move up and get him. Now he is back to claiming his shoulder is injured and also his wrist this time. Although none of his teammates, coaches or GM had any idea that he has any injury. At least he was willing to laugh at Amari Cooper using his free throw style as a TD celebration tonight.

[pinhigh27]

I think the chance tatum is a superstar is much higher than balls

[MtlJeff]

I think Fultz is the first basketball player to get the yips. Its really crazy and as a Sixer fan it throws salt on the wounds that he was not only a #1 pick, but that we gave up a first round pick to move up and get him. Now he is back to claiming his shoulder is injured and also his wrist this time. Although none of his teammates, coaches or GM had any idea that he has any injury. At least he was willing to laugh at Amari Cooper using his free throw style as a TD celebration tonight.

 

Me and my friend talked about it and the best we could come up with was Nick Anderson. Although he only had issues with free throws and not full shots

 

Fultz is one of the strangest cases we've ever seen for sure.

 

The shoulder issues, I think most believe, are just a cover

[scratchswinger]

I think the chance tatum is a superstar is much higher than balls

 

That’s the popular opinion and possibly true. But I said this last year and I will say it again. Tatum was drafted into basically a perfect situation for him to succeed and in my opinion is over valued. I’ve heard plenty of analysts proclaim him untouchable. In my opinion the only untouchable players in the league are LeBron and Greek Freak (AD if he had another year on his contract and Kawhi if he had a new contract). Lonzo shows flashes of brilliance where he picks up the other teams PG at full court, presses, then denies that player getting the ball back, gets a rebound in traffic, creates a one man fast break and then either scores or makes a good pass. The thing is with Lonzo is once his shot becomes more contestent and improves his mid range he will be an All Star. He’s really not far away, people easily criticize him because of his dads rep. It will be interesting to have this conversation in two years.

[raynorfan1]

I think the chance tatum is a superstar is much higher than balls

 

That’s the popular opinion and possibly true. But I said this last year and I will say it again. Tatum was drafted into basically a perfect situation for him to succeed and in my opinion is over valued. I’ve heard plenty of analysts proclaim him untouchable.

 

Tatum is untouchable more because of his situation than anything else.

 

You've got a league where it's basically everybody vs. Golden State. Your best play, as a GM, is to build a team for a future where the Warriors are in decline. If you're the Celtics, who would you rather have than Tatum? Who would you trade for?

[MtlJeff]

There was some slight concern that Tatum had regressed a bit and was settling for too many long 2's. But i think many people also believe that has a lot to do with all the new people back in Boston and him forcing shots because everyone is uncertain about their role. He should hit his stride again

 

Tatum i agree is probably top 10 in the league in trade value. He is a wing, he can shoot and defend and create his own shot, and is a solid passer. He can basically do everything and is very young. He held up in the playoffs as a rookie as a #1 option. Also he is on a great contract and goes restricted his first time as a FA.

 

Contracts mean so much to trade value. I genuinely think there's a chance Luka Doncic is #1 in the whole NBA in trade value right now. He looks as good as advertised. He is basically leading a league average offense (15th) as a 19yr old rookie putting up 20-7 on 45-38 splits. They were 24th last year. Dallas would not trade him for Anthony Davis right now. He was the best player in the Euroleague at 18, he is really good in the NBA at 19, and you have him for most likely 8 years

[scratchswinger]

I think the chance tatum is a superstar is much higher than balls

 

That’s the popular opinion and possibly true. But I said this last year and I will say it again. Tatum was drafted into basically a perfect situation for him to succeed and in my opinion is over valued. I’ve heard plenty of analysts proclaim him untouchable.

 

Tatum is untouchable more because of his situation than anything else.

 

You've got a league where it's basically everybody vs. Golden State. Your best play, as a GM, is to build a team for a future where the Warriors are in decline. If you're the Celtics, who would you rather have than Tatum? Who would you trade for?

 

Straight up contract for contract?

 

Simmons

Mitchell

Doncic

Ingram

 

If you wanted to include players with larger contracts - Celtics would have to include Hayward or Hoyford but I can think of a handful off the top of my head I would trade him for. Like I said I believe Tatum is over valued.

 

[raynorfan1]

I think the chance tatum is a superstar is much higher than balls

 

That's the popular opinion and possibly true. But I said this last year and I will say it again. Tatum was drafted into basically a perfect situation for him to succeed and in my opinion is over valued. I've heard plenty of analysts proclaim him untouchable.

 

Tatum is untouchable more because of his situation than anything else.

 

You've got a league where it's basically everybody vs. Golden State. Your best play, as a GM, is to build a team for a future where the Warriors are in decline. If you're the Celtics, who would you rather have than Tatum? Who would you trade for?

 

Straight up contract for contract?

 

Simmons

Mitchell

Doncic

Ingram

 

If you wanted to include players with larger contracts - Celtics would have to include Hayward or Hoyford but I can think of a handful off the top of my head I would trade him for. Like I said I believe Tatum is over valued.

 

None of those guys make your team marginally more competitive vs. Golden State. They might be upgrades around the edges, but it's not clear why either team would pull the trigger on any of those trades. Package him with somebody for Anthony Davis, and I could see making that trade. But the Celtics don't need another elite guard.

[scratchswinger]

I think the chance tatum is a superstar is much higher than balls

 

That's the popular opinion and possibly true. But I said this last year and I will say it again. Tatum was drafted into basically a perfect situation for him to succeed and in my opinion is over valued. I've heard plenty of analysts proclaim him untouchable.

 

Tatum is untouchable more because of his situation than anything else.

 

You've got a league where it's basically everybody vs. Golden State. Your best play, as a GM, is to build a team for a future where the Warriors are in decline. If you're the Celtics, who would you rather have than Tatum? Who would you trade for?

 

Straight up contract for contract?

 

Simmons

Mitchell

Doncic

Ingram

 

If you wanted to include players with larger contracts - Celtics would have to include Hayward or Hoyford but I can think of a handful off the top of my head I would trade him for. Like I said I believe Tatum is over valued.

 

None of those guys make your team marginally more competitive vs. Golden State. They might be upgrades around the edges, but it's not clear why either team would pull the trigger on any of those trades. Package him with somebody for Anthony Davis, and I could see making that trade. But the Celtics don't need another elite guard.

 

So you wouldn’t trade Tatum for a better player because no matter what you can’t beat GS? What about in two years, you don’t want a better team then or will there be another team you can’t beat? You asked who I would rather have and I answered. I just don’t see how Tatum is so untouchable. I gave you a list of guys in rookie deals that I would rather have. And I assure you Houston, Toronto, LAL, OKC and others are not thinking “we can’t win so why try”.

[scratchswinger]

If NY offered Porzingus for Tatum would Boston say no?

[pinhigh27]

I think Fultz is the first basketball player to get the yips. Its really crazy and as a Sixer fan it throws salt on the wounds that he was not only a #1 pick, but that we gave up a first round pick to move up and get him. Now he is back to claiming his shoulder is injured and also his wrist this time. Although none of his teammates, coaches or GM had any idea that he has any injury. At least he was willing to laugh at Amari Cooper using his free throw style as a TD celebration tonight.

 

Me and my friend talked about it and the best we could come up with was Nick Anderson. Although he only had issues with free throws and not full shots

 

Fultz is one of the strangest cases we've ever seen for sure.

 

The shoulder issues, I think most believe, are just a cover

 

really? I mean doesn't it make sense where if you have to change your shooting technique to avoid pain, that would make you way more likely to forget how to shoot than a mental thing after you were a great shooter? I feel like it's definitely the shoulder.

[pinhigh27]

If NY offered Porzingus for Tatum would Boston say no?

 

not sure. cool discussion.

 

would be tough to do without seeing how zingis plays after injury first.

[cdnglf]

I think the chance tatum is a superstar is much higher than balls

 

That’s the popular opinion and possibly true. But I said this last year and I will say it again. Tatum was drafted into basically a perfect situation for him to succeed and in my opinion is over valued. I’ve heard plenty of analysts proclaim him untouchable.

 

Tatum is untouchable more because of his situation than anything else.

 

You've got a league where it's basically everybody vs. Golden State. Your best play, as a GM, is to build a team for a future where the Warriors are in decline. If you're the Celtics, who would you rather have than Tatum? Who would you trade for?

 

Is it still? Seems like the future is now; next season at the latest.

[MtlJeff]

What Durant decides to do in the offseason is going to be very disruptive to the league obviously. I'm not buying their whole skid this season, they are still going to slaughter people in the playoffs. No one in the West looks good, The Raptors might give them a Houston-style run as of right now but who knows. The Raptors are really good. I don't trust Milwaukee in a playoff series. Boston has lost a bit of their magic (doesn't help that Hayward is shooting 40/28 and averaging 10ppg for 30M dollars). Eventually Jimmy Butler is going to ruin Philadelphia

 

I think Durant will leave this offseason to try to rehab his image and narrative a bit. 4 titles with one of them being in say , NY, would be better for him than 6 in Golden State and he probably knows that.

 

So next season it's probably more open and the Anthony Davis sweepstakes begin!

[raynorfan1]

So you wouldn’t trade Tatum for a better player because no matter what you can’t beat GS? What about in two years, you don’t want a better team then or will there be another team you can’t beat? You asked who I would rather have and I answered. I just don’t see how Tatum is so untouchable. I gave you a list of guys in rookie deals that I would rather have. And I assure you Houston, Toronto, LAL, OKC and others are not thinking “we can’t win so why try”.

 

Here in Boston, we play for banners. “Good” isn’t good enough. Any move that doesn’t get you closer to a championship isn’t worth doing.

 

All those guys that you listed would - arguably - make the team “better” on paper. But would they actually win more games with Ben Simmons than Jason Tatum? Would they go farther in the playoffs? I’m not sure they would.

 

Now, put a young superstar big on the table...that gets interesting.

 

In the realm of would-never-happen...if Kyrie and Lebron buried the hatchet, would I trade Tatum for Lebron? Of course. But that’s not a trade that can happen in the real world.

 

It’s not that Tatum is untouchable, it’s that there just aren’t deals out there that make sense.

[scratchswinger]

What Durant decides to do in the offseason is going to be very disruptive to the league obviously. I'm not buying their whole skid this season, they are still going to slaughter people in the playoffs. No one in the West looks good, The Raptors might give them a Houston-style run as of right now but who knows. The Raptors are really good. I don't trust Milwaukee in a playoff series. Boston has lost a bit of their magic (doesn't help that Hayward is shooting 40/28 and averaging 10ppg for 30M dollars). Eventually Jimmy Butler is going to ruin Philadelphia

 

I think Durant will leave this offseason to try to rehab his image and narrative a bit. 4 titles with one of them being in say , NY, would be better for him than 6 in Golden State and he probably knows that.

 

So next season it's probably more open and the Anthony Davis sweepstakes begin!

 

My friend must we do this again? You literally give LeBron zero respect every year until the playoffs.

[MtlJeff]

What Durant decides to do in the offseason is going to be very disruptive to the league obviously. I'm not buying their whole skid this season, they are still going to slaughter people in the playoffs. No one in the West looks good, The Raptors might give them a Houston-style run as of right now but who knows. The Raptors are really good. I don't trust Milwaukee in a playoff series. Boston has lost a bit of their magic (doesn't help that Hayward is shooting 40/28 and averaging 10ppg for 30M dollars). Eventually Jimmy Butler is going to ruin Philadelphia

 

I think Durant will leave this offseason to try to rehab his image and narrative a bit. 4 titles with one of them being in say , NY, would be better for him than 6 in Golden State and he probably knows that.

 

So next season it's probably more open and the Anthony Davis sweepstakes begin!

 

You literally give LeBron zero respect every year until the playoffs. We'll see....

 

I don't think they have any chance of beating the Warriors as currently constructed, if that is your question. Do you? I mean Lebron lost the last 2 finals to the presently existing Warriors 8-1. I think Lebron is at worst the 2nd best player of all time but that's the evidence

 

I don't think the Lakers supporting cast is much better than the Cavs was last season. In a 7 game series this season

 

Do you think that they are?

[MtlJeff]

Don't get me wrong Scratch, i'd much rather have Ingram/Hart/Ball/Kuzma and co for a long term project than the mess that is Love, JR Smith , Korver , Mr Kardashian and the stiffs they got from Utah. But without Lebron the Lakers aren't a winning team this year, they are better than the Cavs with a healthy Love. But i don't think by some huge margin . The Lakers young core is still getting better. Kevin Love by the end of his Cavs run was pretty darn good! (even became an average defender)

[scratchswinger]

I don’t think the Lakers can beat a healthy GS but I do think GS is one injury or another Dreymond blowup from getting beat. I would be less shocked this year if GS lost than I would have been last year. They have a lot of miles on those legs.