2019 And The Pin Is In

[Sawgrass]

Wow sorry to have cause all this.

 

Memo to self ........... stay far far away from the flag stick for the next year or so.

 

No need to apologize; the thread has drifted to other things.

 

Also no need to be afraid of the flagstick, either. If it is being attended, it needs to be pulled out before the ball gets there. If it isn’t being attended, leave it alone. Same as it’s always been.

 

Yeah, my intent starting this thread was to share our experiences putting with the pin in or out. Took wrong turn into a rules debate. We have plenty of other threads for rules debates. Good golly.

Well, your 2019 "experiences" putting the pin in or out may very well involve a rules debate. In fact, it already has.

[Mr. Bean]

Players are DQ'd if they agree to leave one player's ball on the green as a backstop for another player. However, a bag may be left in the same position with no penalty.

 

Does not sound very logical to me...

You mean a 2sp under 15.3a, in stroke play, not a DQ, right?

 

Anyway, the moral of the story is do your own dirty work! Conspiring is frowned upon.

 

Would you rather have the penalty apply to the bag on the green even when the action didn’t achieve anything? Before you answer, remember that these are the kinder, gentler rules.

 

I have given this a lot of thought and come to a conclusion that this is one of those things the RB's did not quite think through when revising the Rules.

 

Here's the scenario. I have a long downhill putt on a 2-level green (I cannot remember what this is in English, hope you all understand) from the upper level. If I miss the hole and putt too hard there is a good chance I will be chipping 1-2 times and putting 2-3 times to complete the hole. So, I take the flagstick and my driver and form a funnel to direct the ball into the hole. If I hole my ball without hitting that 'funnel' I am a lucky son of a B but if I DO hit the funnel and hole my ball I get a 2 stroke penalty which is most likely less than missing the hole badly.

 

Have I got this right?

 

EDIT: Yes, I would penalize every player who deliberately tries to break the Rules or cheat. Wouldn't you, Sawgrass?

[HitEmTrue]

Mr. Bean, no, that would be a penalty. The line of play includes areas on both sides of the line. Sawgrass’ example was on the other side of the hole, which is not part of the line of play.

[sdandrea]

If the group I'm playing with is in, I'm all in, even for the short ones. I don't like the time waste of pulling it and replacing for each partners preference, so I go with the majority. I definitely prefer it in for all putts, given the choice. I putt better that way always have. This rule has improved my game a little.

[rogolf]

Players are DQ'd if they agree to leave one player's ball on the green as a backstop for another player. However, a bag may be left in the same position with no penalty.

 

Does not sound very logical to me...

You mean a 2sp under 15.3a, in stroke play, not a DQ, right?

 

Anyway, the moral of the story is do your own dirty work! Conspiring is frowned upon.

 

Would you rather have the penalty apply to the bag on the green even when the action didn’t achieve anything? Before you answer, remember that these are the kinder, gentler rules.

 

I have given this a lot of thought and come to a conclusion that this is one of those things the RB's did not quite think through when revising the Rules.

 

Here's the scenario. I have a long downhill putt on a 2-level green (I cannot remember what this is in English, hope you all understand) from the upper level. If I miss the hole and putt too hard there is a good chance I will be chipping 1-2 times and putting 2-3 times to complete the hole. So, I take the flagstick and my driver and form a funnel to direct the ball into the hole. If I hole my ball without hitting that 'funnel' I am a lucky son of a B but if I DO hit the funnel and hole my ball I get a 2 stroke penalty which is most likely less than missing the hole badly.

 

Have I got this right?

 

EDIT: Yes, I would penalize every player who deliberately tries to break the Rules or cheat. Wouldn't you, Sawgrass?

 

Well Mr. Bean, imo, you would be heading to the parking lot - DQ'd for a breach of Rule 1.2a.

[CheckJV]

Wow sorry to have cause all this.

 

Memo to self ........... stay far far away from the flag stick for the next year or so.

 

No need to apologize; the thread has drifted to other things.

 

Also no need to be afraid of the flagstick, either. If it is being attended, it needs to be pulled out before the ball gets there. If it isn’t being attended, leave it alone. Same as it’s always been.

 

Yeah, my intent starting this thread was to share our experiences putting with the pin in or out. Took wrong turn into a rules debate. We have plenty of other threads for rules debates. Good golly.

Well, your 2019 "experiences" putting the pin in or out may very well involve a rules debate. In fact, it already has.

 

Nor did I intend it to be a spelling contest. Forgive me I’m running on vapors today. Carry on.

[Mr. Bean]

Players are DQ'd if they agree to leave one player's ball on the green as a backstop for another player. However, a bag may be left in the same position with no penalty.

 

Does not sound very logical to me...

You mean a 2sp under 15.3a, in stroke play, not a DQ, right?

 

Anyway, the moral of the story is do your own dirty work! Conspiring is frowned upon.

 

Would you rather have the penalty apply to the bag on the green even when the action didn’t achieve anything? Before you answer, remember that these are the kinder, gentler rules.

 

I have given this a lot of thought and come to a conclusion that this is one of those things the RB's did not quite think through when revising the Rules.

 

Here's the scenario. I have a long downhill putt on a 2-level green (I cannot remember what this is in English, hope you all understand) from the upper level. If I miss the hole and putt too hard there is a good chance I will be chipping 1-2 times and putting 2-3 times to complete the hole. So, I take the flagstick and my driver and form a funnel to direct the ball into the hole. If I hole my ball without hitting that 'funnel' I am a lucky son of a B but if I DO hit the funnel and hole my ball I get a 2 stroke penalty which is most likely less than missing the hole badly.

 

Have I got this right?

 

EDIT: Yes, I would penalize every player who deliberately tries to break the Rules or cheat. Wouldn't you, Sawgrass?

 

Well Mr. Bean, imo, you would be heading to the parking lot - DQ'd for a breach of Rule 1.2a.

 

So... leaving a bag right behind the hole is fine but doing what I described is DQ?

 

I must say I miss the old Rules in this respect.

 

Btw, is it your view that R1.2a replaces the old 1-2? I mean, in your opinion placing a pin to direct a ball is a serious misconduct..?

[Mr. Bean]

Mr. Bean, no, that would be a penalty. The line of play includes areas on both sides of the line. Sawgrass' example was on the other side of the hole, which is not part of the line of play.

 

That is easy to change by placing the pin BEHIND the hole in such an angle that hitting the pin with the ball would make the ball roll into the hole.

[Sawgrass]

Wow sorry to have cause all this.

 

Memo to self ........... stay far far away from the flag stick for the next year or so.

 

No need to apologize; the thread has drifted to other things.

 

Also no need to be afraid of the flagstick, either. If it is being attended, it needs to be pulled out before the ball gets there. If it isn’t being attended, leave it alone. Same as it’s always been.

 

Yeah, my intent starting this thread was to share our experiences putting with the pin in or out. Took wrong turn into a rules debate. We have plenty of other threads for rules debates. Good golly.

Well, your 2019 "experiences" putting the pin in or out may very well involve a rules debate. In fact, it already has.

 

Nor did I intend it to be a spelling contest. Forgive me I’m running on vapors today. Carry on.

I'm not sure what you mean by "spelling contest." I wasn't referring to spelling by my quotation marks, just that one's "experience" with this new rule includes the experience of discussing the rule. So, sorry for any perceived implication of a spelling challenge, and not sorry for bringing up a rules discussion in a rules forum.

[Sawgrass]

 

 

EDIT: Yes, I would penalize every player who deliberately tries to break the Rules or cheat. Wouldn't you, Sawgrass?

 

I wasn't suggesting you shouldn't enforce the rules, I was asking you if you do or don't think it's now nice that a player who puts something down on the green to help himself may end up penalty-free if he doesn't in fact help himself. I'm good with it, and in fact, the old way of penalizing a player for putting it down, even if he picked it up before he made his next stroke, didn't feel right to me. (But yes, before you ask, I would have penalized him despite my feelings.

 

BTW, your English in your post 182 seems perfect to me.

[rogolf]

Players are DQ'd if they agree to leave one player's ball on the green as a backstop for another player. However, a bag may be left in the same position with no penalty.

 

Does not sound very logical to me...

You mean a 2sp under 15.3a, in stroke play, not a DQ, right?

 

Anyway, the moral of the story is do your own dirty work! Conspiring is frowned upon.

 

Would you rather have the penalty apply to the bag on the green even when the action didn’t achieve anything? Before you answer, remember that these are the kinder, gentler rules.

 

I have given this a lot of thought and come to a conclusion that this is one of those things the RB's did not quite think through when revising the Rules.

 

Here's the scenario. I have a long downhill putt on a 2-level green (I cannot remember what this is in English, hope you all understand) from the upper level. If I miss the hole and putt too hard there is a good chance I will be chipping 1-2 times and putting 2-3 times to complete the hole. So, I take the flagstick and my driver and form a funnel to direct the ball into the hole. If I hole my ball without hitting that 'funnel' I am a lucky son of a B but if I DO hit the funnel and hole my ball I get a 2 stroke penalty which is most likely less than missing the hole badly.

 

Have I got this right?

 

EDIT: Yes, I would penalize every player who deliberately tries to break the Rules or cheat. Wouldn't you, Sawgrass?

 

Well Mr. Bean, imo, you would be heading to the parking lot - DQ'd for a breach of Rule 1.2a.

 

So... leaving a bag right behind the hole is fine but doing what I described is DQ?

 

I must say I miss the old Rules in this respect.

 

Btw, is it your view that R1.2a replaces the old 1-2? I mean, in your opinion placing a pin to direct a ball is a serious misconduct..?

 

That's what I said. "Cheating" is not acting with integrity and being honest in all aspects of play.

[Hawkeye77]

Wow sorry to have cause all this.

 

Memo to self ........... stay far far away from the flag stick for the next year or so.

 

Or just this sub forum sometimes, lol.

 

They'll argue over punctuation, at least the arguments about periods are cyclical.

[Golfnuck]

Wow sorry to have cause all this.

 

Memo to self ........... stay far far away from the flag stick for the next year or so.

 

No need to apologize; the thread has drifted to other things.

 

Also no need to be afraid of the flagstick, either. If it is being attended, it needs to be pulled out before the ball gets there. If it isn't being attended, leave it alone. Same as it's always been.

 

I kinda disagree with your statement.

 

Under the old rules if everyone was within say 10 yards of the pin one could automatically pull the pin and all is fine as rarely would someone ask to tend the pin within 10 yards.

 

Under the new rules one has to carefully acknowledge what each specific golfer wants to have done with the pin.

 

If by accident or by lack of concentration I reach out and pull the pin when it wasn't the putters intent then I may have committed a penalty.

 

This would have been very unlikely under the previous rules as eventually the pin must be pulled out, there was no choice.

 

I must state that I do like the new rule and after some adjustment time I believe that it will improve the pace of play.

[HitEmTrue]

I kinda disagree with your statement.

 

Under the old rules if everyone was within say 10 yards of the pin one could automatically pull the pin and all is fine as rarely would someone ask to tend the pin within 10 yards.

 

Under the new rules one has to carefully acknowledge what each specific golfer wants to have done with the pin.

 

If by accident or by lack of concentration I reach out and pull the pin when it wasn't the putters intent then I may have committed a penalty.

 

This would have been very unlikely under the previous rules as eventually the pin must be pulled out, there was no choice.

 

I must state that I do like the new rule and after some adjustment time I believe that it will improve the pace of play.

 

I see where you are coming from...but why would someone stand next to the pin unless he is tending it?

[CheckJV]

 

“I'm not sure what you mean by "spelling contest." I wasn't referring to spelling by my quotation marks, just that one's "experience" with this new rule includes the experience of discussing the rule. So, sorry for any perceived implication of a spelling challenge, and not sorry for bringing up a rules discussion in a rules forum.”

 

It’s alright Sawgrass. No worries my friend. Have you played golf in 2019 yet with your friends? Did you guys leave the pin in or out? How did it go for you?

[Sawgrass]

 

“I'm not sure what you mean by "spelling contest." I wasn't referring to spelling by my quotation marks, just that one's "experience" with this new rule includes the experience of discussing the rule. So, sorry for any perceived implication of a spelling challenge, and not sorry for bringing up a rules discussion in a rules forum.”

 

It’s alright Sawgrass. No worries my friend. Have you played golf in 2019 yet with your friends? Did you guys leave the pin in or out? How did it go for you?

I played once, on 1/1/19. We were tripping all over the pin in/pin out issue. I need lessons.

[dormie1360]

Hey Mr Bean,

Players are DQ'd if they agree to leave one player's ball on the green as a backstop for another player. However, a bag may be left in the same position with no penalty.

 

Does not sound very logical to me...

You mean a 2sp under 15.3a, in stroke play, not a DQ, right?

 

Anyway, the moral of the story is do your own dirty work! Conspiring is frowned upon.

 

Would you rather have the penalty apply to the bag on the green even when the action didn’t achieve anything? Before you answer, remember that these are the kinder, gentler rules.

 

I have given this a lot of thought and come to a conclusion that this is one of those things the RB's did not quite think through when revising the Rules.

 

Here's the scenario. I have a long downhill putt on a 2-level green (I cannot remember what this is in English, hope you all understand) from the upper level. If I miss the hole and putt too hard there is a good chance I will be chipping 1-2 times and putting 2-3 times to complete the hole. So, I take the flagstick and my driver and form a funnel to direct the ball into the hole. If I hole my ball without hitting that 'funnel' I am a lucky son of a B but if I DO hit the funnel and hole my ball I get a 2 stroke penalty which is most likely less than missing the hole badly.

 

Have I got this right?

 

EDIT: Yes, I would penalize every player who deliberately tries to break the Rules or cheat. Wouldn't you, Sawgrass?

 

Hey Mr Bean,

 

I'm afraid you just might have to accept the fact that you are not going to like some of the new rules. A more realistic scenario might be a player who places a flagstick behind the hole. As he is lining up his putt he realizes the putt is downhill and the flag might help stop the ball. Accordingly, he/she does not move the flagstick. If the ball strikes the flagstick he gets the general penalty for a deliberate action which IS based on the outcome.. If it does not strike the flagstick he does not get a penalty.....so it's true that some deliberate action penalties are outcome based.

 

Yes, this thread has gone off the rails and down the hill..........If someone thinks it's worth starting a new thread discussing "intent, deliberate actions, and outcomes" under 2019 rules I think that could certainly be useful. I will admit there has been a philosophical shift that I find difficult to follow at times.

[Golfnuck]

I kinda disagree with your statement.

 

Under the old rules if everyone was within say 10 yards of the pin one could automatically pull the pin and all is fine as rarely would someone ask to tend the pin within 10 yards.

 

Under the new rules one has to carefully acknowledge what each specific golfer wants to have done with the pin.

 

If by accident or by lack of concentration I reach out and pull the pin when it wasn't the putters intent then I may have committed a penalty.

 

This would have been very unlikely under the previous rules as eventually the pin must be pulled out, there was no choice.

 

I must state that I do like the new rule and after some adjustment time I believe that it will improve the pace of play.

 

I see where you are coming from...but why would someone stand next to the pin unless he is tending it?

 

Unfortunately most times our group does not follow the continuous putting approach so one golfer putts just outside of gimme range and marks then another then another ... you get the picture.

 

For the first few rounds due to the novelty we had instances where golfer 1 wants the flag out, then golfer 2 wants the flag in, then golfer 3 wants the flag out ..... you get the picture.

 

So we all end up standing pretty close to the hole and I fear one of us will pull the flag or put the flag in by mistake.

 

I am sure it all looked pretty stupid having three of us hovering close to the putter in a circle and putting the flag in and out !!!!!!!!!!!

 

After a few rounds the novelty seems to have worn off and if the first putter wants the flag out we all putt with the flag out and visa versa.

 

I think it is too early to assess the pros or cons of the rule.

 

It does speed up play if we are all far away from the pin as we can putt without having to get someone to tend it.

[Golfnuck]

“I'm not sure what you mean by "spelling contest." I wasn't referring to spelling by my quotation marks, just that one's "experience" with this new rule includes the experience of discussing the rule. So, sorry for any perceived implication of a spelling challenge, and not sorry for bringing up a rules discussion in a rules forum.”

 

It’s alright Sawgrass. No worries my friend. Have you played golf in 2019 yet with your friends? Did you guys leave the pin in or out? How did it go for you?

I played once, on 1/1/19. We were tripping all over the pin in/pin out issue. I need lessons.

 

My personal observation is that it will take time for our regular group to get used to this new rule.

 

The first few rounds were not indicative of the norm due to the novelty to some of being able to putt with the flag in.

 

I think we are beginning to figure it out.

 

What I am concerned with is playing with a new group or playing in a club competition like the club championship where you are not playing with your regular buddies so you don't know how the other players want the flag in or out. Communication between the players will have to be good to avoid some potential issues and/or penalties. Certainly would not want a club championship decided on because someone pull the flag out incorrectly and ended up being assessed a penalty.

 

But as I said previously I am generally in favour of the new flag rule but it will take time to get used to.

[Augster]

So, on a fast downhill putt I can now lay my bag down behind the hole. If I don’t hit it, no penalty, but if I do, it’s only 1 stroke play it as it lies?

 

I’m having trouble following this discussion.

[antip]

I have observations on Bean's and Sawgrass's situations as follows.

1) I very much agree with RO's 1.2a DQ for Bean's funnelling situation. But DQ aside, I don't think the player gets away penalty free just because the ball goes down the funnel without hitting either object. I think that is a very clear breach of R10.2b(2), setting an object down (in fact two objects) to show the line of play. The fact is the two objects are funnelled to show a line to the hole, so that is a clear breach for me.

2) Sawgrass's blatant statement of intent of placing a bag behind the hole to stop a ball hit too hard, I agree, is not a breach of 11.2 if the ball doesn't hit it because that rule requires physical contact with the ball in motion to be triggered. But IMO this is another R1.2a serious misconduct issue. This is far removed from the expected norm in golf and cannot be condoned or justified by no penalty. If I see such behaviour, it needs to be reported to the Committee and they need to investigate/follow up. I suggest they have two options, given those facts. First is DQ, if the Committee sees that behaviour is as inappropriate as I do. Alternatively, a serious breach warning that ANY repetitions will produce a DQ and a suspension from rights to participate in club competitions for a period.

[Sawgrass]

So, on a fast downhill putt I can now lay my bag down behind the hole. If I don’t hit it, no penalty, but if I do, it’s only 1 stroke play it as it lies?

 

General penalty.

[Sawgrass]

I have observations on Bean's and Sawgrass's situations as follows.

 

2) Sawgrass's blatant statement of intent of placing a bag behind the hole to stop a ball hit too hard, I agree, is not a breach of 11.2 if the ball doesn't hit it because that rule requires physical contact with the ball in motion to be triggered. But IMO this is another R1.2a serious misconduct issue. This is far removed from the expected norm in golf and cannot be condoned or justified by no penalty. If I see such behaviour, it needs to be reported to the Committee and they need to investigate/follow up. I suggest they have two options, given those facts. First is DQ, if the Committee sees that behaviour is as inappropriate as I do. Alternatively, a serious breach warning that ANY repetitions will produce a DQ and a suspension from rights to participate in club competitions for a period.

 

Yes, it’s “far removed from the expected norm in golf.” But so is the concept of “outcome based” penalties that the RBs have developed, endorsed and are teaching.

 

Another established concept in golf is that, absent new Committee-developed player conduct policies and penalties, a Committee should not DQ a player for an infraction for which a different penalty is already prescribed. That’s the case here. Miss your bag, no penalty. Hit your bag, general penalty.

 

1-2 used to penalize you for your intention. That day is passed. Now, in regard to a ball that is at rest when an object is placed down, your outcome dictates whether or not you’re penalized. I think we should get with the program instead of coming up with creative ways to penalize players.

 

Your above statement reminds me of the outcry to DQ Phil for intentionally hitting his moving ball. Like that occasion, the idea that someone could actually “get away” with something by violating this rule is a stretch. In practice, no one benefits from a 2sp for hitting his bag with a putt. Any worries about abuse seem silly to me.

[antip]

 

 

Yes, it's "far removed from the expected norm in golf." But so is the concept of "outcome based" penalties that the RBs have developed, endorsed and are teaching.

Outcome based penalties have not completed a takeover yet, eg 11.3 and 11.3/1.

[Sawgrass]

Yes, it's "far removed from the expected norm in golf." But so is the concept of "outcome based" penalties that the RBs have developed, endorsed and are teaching.

Outcome based penalties have not completed a takeover yet, eg 11.3 and 11.3/1.

I hope they never get that far. Subjective judgments are problematic, and I don't want to have to judge whether something would have interfered or might not have. Did or didn't is hard enough.

 

But I can live with the one they chose for this freedom. Of course, it's perverse in the way I originally outlined the situation, but I confess that I like players having the ability to repent before it's too late when the rules can see fit for it. And I like, to a point, "no harm, no foul."

[Newby]

Yes, it's "far removed from the expected norm in golf." But so is the concept of "outcome based" penalties that the RBs have developed, endorsed and are teaching.

Outcome based penalties have not completed a takeover yet, eg 11.3 and 11.3/1.

Is it significant that the ball is already in motion?

[Sawgrass]

Yes, it's "far removed from the expected norm in golf." But so is the concept of "outcome based" penalties that the RBs have developed, endorsed and are teaching.

Outcome based penalties have not completed a takeover yet, eg 11.3 and 11.3/1.

Is it significant that the ball is already in motion?

Yes. And it's also significant if you do something illegal to the surface of the ground, as you're not allowed to restore that. (And probably can't do it right, anyway.)

[antip]

Yes, it's "far removed from the expected norm in golf." But so is the concept of "outcome based" penalties that the RBs have developed, endorsed and are teaching.

Outcome based penalties have not completed a takeover yet, eg 11.3 and 11.3/1.

Is it significant that the ball is already in motion?

Yes. And it's also significant if you do something illegal to the surface of the ground, as you're not allowed to restore that. (And probably can't do it right, anyway.)

Returning to this issue after an overnight reflect. I now agree fully with your earlier post that your bag placed behind the flagstick before a stroke is not a breach of any rules unless the contact is made. That is, 11.2 is only outcome based, while 11.3 is only intent based; so RBs have drawn a strong line between those two situations.

 

So to paint the picture clearly. Bag placed before the stroke, ball misses bag, no penalty. Bag placed by caddie during the stroke, penalty regardless of outcome.

 

But I want to return to the "serious misconduct" issue. You suggested it would be "creative" to link it to your bag behind the hole case. IMO, you absolutely could be in that world in certain circumstances but I agree you would need good reason. The key words from 1.2a/1 are "Deliberately not playing in accordance with the Rules and potentially gaining a significant advantage by doing so, despite incurring [note failure to use the 'getting' language] a penalty for a breach of the relevant Rule." I read these words as the ammunition the R&A would use to say clearly to Phil Mickelson, come on son, we dare you to do it again at the British Open when we are in control of the decision making. So if we have scary conditions behind the hole and player callously positions the bag directly to stop the ball, and it does so, potentially preventing the ball from running away into all manner of horrible outcomes but at the cost only of 2SP plus a gimme putt, then I think we are in the R1.2a world.

[Augster]

Chambers Bay in a US Open setting comes to mind. All the pros out there were guessing what was going to happen.

 

Putting for a birdie 3 on a slick downhiller that will roll off the green, lay the bag behind the hole. Putt 3, hit bag 2SP (4/5) and tap in 6. Or no bag, putt 3, rolls off green, unplayable 1SP, face same putt hitting 5 which is likely to roll all the way off. Or putt 3 off the green, chip up 4, 2-putt 6.

 

I think laying a bag behind the hole on a really fast green is going to end up being good strategy. Maybe not on the PGA where they are the best putters in the world, but at my club events where guys routinely 3, 4, and 5-putt. If a guy is getting 2 shots and is putting for a birdie 3, why not lay the bag down? If he makes it he gets a 3 for a 1. If it hits the bag he has a tap in 6 for a par 4. Especially if the guy could 3,4,5 or 6-putt. At least you’d lock in a net par for the team. At worst.

 

Doesn’t seem like golf to me. Seems quite hokey. Windmills and clowns-mouths.

 

Perhaps the ruling bodies will revisit this silliness. They changed something that didn’t need changing I feel.

[Sawgrass]

Chambers Bay in a US Open setting comes to mind. All the pros out there were guessing what was going to happen.

 

Putting for a birdie 3 on a slick downhiller that will roll off the green, lay the bag behind the hole. Putt 3, hit bag 2SP (4/5) and tap in 6. Or no bag, putt 3, rolls off green, unplayable 1SP, face same putt hitting 5 which is likely to roll all the way off. Or putt 3 off the green, chip up 4, 2-putt 6.

 

I think laying a bag behind the hole on a really fast green is going to end up being good strategy. Maybe not on the PGA where they are the best putters in the world, but at my club events where guys routinely 3, 4, and 5-putt. If a guy is getting 2 shots and is putting for a birdie 3, why not lay the bag down? If he makes it he gets a 3 for a 1. If it hits the bag he has a tap in 6 for a par 4. Especially if the guy could 3,4,5 or 6-putt. At least you’d lock in a net par for the team. At worst.

 

Doesn’t seem like golf to me. Seems quite hokey. Windmills and clowns-mouths.

 

Perhaps the ruling bodies will revisit this silliness. They changed something that didn’t need changing I feel.

A poor putter is 20 feet away. He foolishly lays his bag down behind the hole as a creepy strategy. He putts, if it goes in without hitting the bag, he one-putts, no harm, he deserves it. If he hits the bag, 11.2c (2) says the stroke is cancelled (other than the 2SP for hitting the bag) and must be replayed. What does he do next? Leave the bag there again?

 

I want to play against this guy!