2019 And The Pin Is In

[bladehunter]

We have a blind tee ball on our front 9. 245 carry from my tee over a hill pond at the bottom of that hill. So everyone lays to the same area. Which isn’t visible from the tee. If I walk up and can’t see anybody and haven’t had a group ahead of me , I use a 4 minute rule.

 

I wait 4 minutes . Say a prayer and fire.

 

Smart players leave a cart or their bag at the top of the hill visible and walk to the ball. You can’t drive on this hole anyway. But most don’t. Theres also a bell. I very rarely hear IT being used. It was once stolen , and as of yesterday the cord was broken. So you can’t reach it. It’s on a 10 ft pole to prevent theft. So I’ll tie a new rope to it today. And still most wont ring it.

[Z1ggy16]

I'll throw a little wrinkle into the mix. How long will it be before someone is hitting into a blind green where you can only see the flagstick and someone putting gets popped? Doesn't happen often but on blind approaches there's the opportunity for someone to get hit.

Don't most of those kind of holes (where maybe only the top 1/3 of the flag is visible or so) tend to have bells or some kind of alerting method for the guys on the fairway?

 

As in... if you're on the fairway and you know there's a group in front... you don't hit until you hear the bell/horn/whistle?

 

And if no whistle/bell, just use common sense I suppose. If you're a group of 2 or a single behind 4 guys walking... you know it's probably going to take at least 4-5 minutes for all of them to find their balls, line up and hit putts. When you get to your ball.. wait a few minutes. Otherwise if you're that impatient, hit your shot but take 1-2 less clubs and deal with the fact you won't be making birdie. Otherwise, risk hitting somebody and possibly getting sued for damages. If it's competition... well you'd have to suck it up and go check the green I suppose.

 

We play 50+ different courses a year. It's way more common for the bell to be used on tee shots as opposed to approaches. I can't think of a single hole where you ring a bell after holing out.

Yeah I've only seen it on par 3's but I figured if there's a notorious hole where people had been struck repeatedly from the fairway then the GM would add in some method to alert guys on the fairway it's safe.

[Z1ggy16]

I'll throw a little wrinkle into the mix. How long will it be before someone is hitting into a blind green where you can only see the flagstick and someone putting gets popped? Doesn't happen often but on blind approaches there's the opportunity for someone to get hit.

Don't most of those kind of holes (where maybe only the top 1/3 of the flag is visible or so) tend to have bells or some kind of alerting method for the guys on the fairway?

 

As in... if you're on the fairway and you know there's a group in front... you don't hit until you hear the bell/horn/whistle?

 

And if no whistle/bell, just use common sense I suppose. If you're a group of 2 or a single behind 4 guys walking... you know it's probably going to take at least 4-5 minutes for all of them to find their balls, line up and hit putts. When you get to your ball.. wait a few minutes. Otherwise if you're that impatient, hit your shot but take 1-2 less clubs and deal with the fact you won't be making birdie. Otherwise, risk hitting somebody and possibly getting sued for damages. If it's competition... well you'd have to suck it up and go check the green I suppose.

 

These threads would be shorter if people would read what has already been written instead of repeating it in a new post...

I tend to read stuff as it's new, then by the time I come back to it days later, 40 new posts have sprung up. I don't read them all, you're right. Sorry for the mild inconvenience. :sorry: :sorry: :sorry: :sorry:

[Mr. Bean]

We play 50+ different courses a year. It's way more common for the bell to be used on tee shots as opposed to approaches. I can't think of a single hole where you ring a bell after holing out.

 

You just haven't come across of those yet :busted_cop:

 

My home club has one. Par4, uphill all the way, cannot see the green from approach. The pin is extra high, maybe about 3 meters, hard to handle in wind. Still you cannot see it from approach if it is in the back of the green, you just have to rely on the bell.

 

Then again, most of us who can play golf even a bit want to see the location of the pin so we walk up there to check it and see what is the status on that green. Safety if of paramount importance to many of us here.

[Mr. Bean]

I'll throw a little wrinkle into the mix. How long will it be before someone is hitting into a blind green where you can only see the flagstick and someone putting gets popped? Doesn't happen often but on blind approaches there's the opportunity for someone to get hit.

Don't most of those kind of holes (where maybe only the top 1/3 of the flag is visible or so) tend to have bells or some kind of alerting method for the guys on the fairway?

 

As in... if you're on the fairway and you know there's a group in front... you don't hit until you hear the bell/horn/whistle?

 

And if no whistle/bell, just use common sense I suppose. If you're a group of 2 or a single behind 4 guys walking... you know it's probably going to take at least 4-5 minutes for all of them to find their balls, line up and hit putts. When you get to your ball.. wait a few minutes. Otherwise if you're that impatient, hit your shot but take 1-2 less clubs and deal with the fact you won't be making birdie. Otherwise, risk hitting somebody and possibly getting sued for damages. If it's competition... well you'd have to suck it up and go check the green I suppose.

 

These threads would be shorter if people would read what has already been written instead of repeating it in a new post...

I tend to read stuff as it's new, then by the time I come back to it days later, 40 new posts have sprung up. I don't read them all, you're right. Sorry for the mild inconvenience. :sorry: :sorry: :sorry: :sorry:

 

I forgive you. (smiley)

[Joker91]

A blind shot is a blind shot except you're closer with the chip and could potentially walk up a bit to see if the green was clear.

 

I believe you did not quite catch it...

 

A player chips with pin out and then the pin is put back in. Now the group behind thinks the green is free.

 

Got it?

 

A blind shot is a blind shot and it's the responsibility of the player to make sure it's clear before taking their shot. No matter if the pin is in or not. That hasn't changed

[Sawgrass]

Save yourselves! Keep the pin out, and never have the flagstick attended!

[Mr. Bean]

Save yourselves! Keep the pin out, and never have the flagstick attended!

 

Those Good Old Days...

[bladehunter]

We play 50+ different courses a year. It's way more common for the bell to be used on tee shots as opposed to approaches. I can't think of a single hole where you ring a bell after holing out.

 

You just haven't come across of those yet :busted_cop:

 

My home club has one. Par4, uphill all the way, cannot see the green from approach. The pin is extra high, maybe about 3 meters, hard to handle in wind. Still you cannot see it from approach if it is in the back of the green, you just have to rely on the bell.

 

Then again, most of us who can play golf even a bit want to see the location of the pin so we walk up there to check it and see what is the status on that green. Safety if of paramount importance to many of us here.

 

I agree with the safety sentiment. But that is not what is preached. It is time / speed. A normal everyday player in my neck of the woods will be tarred and feathered for walking up 150 yards to survey the green before hitting a shot. .

[Mr. Bean]

We play 50+ different courses a year. It's way more common for the bell to be used on tee shots as opposed to approaches. I can't think of a single hole where you ring a bell after holing out.

 

You just haven't come across of those yet :busted_cop:

 

My home club has one. Par4, uphill all the way, cannot see the green from approach. The pin is extra high, maybe about 3 meters, hard to handle in wind. Still you cannot see it from approach if it is in the back of the green, you just have to rely on the bell.

 

Then again, most of us who can play golf even a bit want to see the location of the pin so we walk up there to check it and see what is the status on that green. Safety if of paramount importance to many of us here.

 

I agree with the safety sentiment. But that is not what is preached. It is time / speed. A normal everyday player in my neck of the woods will be tarred and feathered for walking up 150 yards to survey the green before hitting a shot. .

 

So... is someone out there really WALKING ???

[bladehunter]

We play 50+ different courses a year. It's way more common for the bell to be used on tee shots as opposed to approaches. I can't think of a single hole where you ring a bell after holing out.

 

You just haven't come across of those yet :busted_cop:

 

My home club has one. Par4, uphill all the way, cannot see the green from approach. The pin is extra high, maybe about 3 meters, hard to handle in wind. Still you cannot see it from approach if it is in the back of the green, you just have to rely on the bell.

 

Then again, most of us who can play golf even a bit want to see the location of the pin so we walk up there to check it and see what is the status on that green. Safety if of paramount importance to many of us here.

 

I agree with the safety sentiment. But that is not what is preached. It is time / speed. A normal everyday player in my neck of the woods will be tarred and feathered for walking up 150 yards to survey the green before hitting a shot. .

 

So... is someone out there really WALKING ???

 

Huh ? I walked 38 rounds last year. And who knows how many 7- 9 holers.

[hahanice]

I have been putting with the pin in for years when alone, and since November 15th (or whenever the MD handicap system shut down) with others. I typically tell people if they are pulling the pin, it's probably just easiest to let me get out of the way. Then I am happy to tend or pull or whatever they need.

 

I like the visual. much easier for me to putt at a big stick than a little hole. My friends say the hole seems bigger with the pin out, and they are better putters than me so I can't judge them.

 

It does get semi annoying when I am standing there over a 12 ft putt and someone walks by and pulls the pin and tosses it aside. I try not to be an annoyance but depending on the putt I might make them put it back. Same thing would happen before the change. I would typically ask for it to be tended if it was a real round, but people are always in a rush to pull the pin.

Some of the situations this happens in are crazy. like I am pitching up from 30 yards out and someone pulls the pin, or putting from 50 feet.

 

My group has been semi adjusting to it since November, some of them putting with it in too just to keep things consolidated. But since Jan 1 everyone seems to pretty much be content putting with the pin in from anywhere outside of 6 ft.

 

We are going to be avoiding going in and out like the plague. If someone wants it in, putt first.

[Newby]

https://www.golf.com/Instruction/2019/01/02/dave-plez-putt-with-the-flagstick-in-rule-change-2018

[Halebopp]

https://www.golf.com...ule-change-2018

 

It's funny how Pelz says in the article Bryson is planning to leave the pin in and provides us with a link to an article in which Bryson says his decision will depend on the characteristics of the flagstick. Pelz might be right but he's not making himself or his case any favours acting that way.

[caniac6]

Played 9 this morning. We played with the pin in, and one guy that was resistant at first, said that he thought it was easier to aim with the pin in. I had a couple birdies, so the pin will stay in.

 

So what happens when you hit the pin and it comes out ? What then ? :D

 

I think we're all getting a little bit ahead of ourselves though, especially since about 2/3 of us won't play a round until at least March.

 

I've played 2 regular rounds and a scramble so far and have left it in most of the time and believe I will going forward but it's way too early (for me anyway) to make an "all the time" decision.

I feel like that if it hits the pin and comes out, it was probably going too fast, and hitting the pin probably kept it from going into three putt range. So, it saved a shot, and helped my score.

[nsxguy]

Played 9 this morning. We played with the pin in, and one guy that was resistant at first, said that he thought it was easier to aim with the pin in. I had a couple birdies, so the pin will stay in.

 

So what happens when you hit the pin and it comes out ? What then ? :D

 

I think we're all getting a little bit ahead of ourselves though, especially since about 2/3 of us won't play a round until at least March.

 

I've played 2 regular rounds and a scramble so far and have left it in most of the time and believe I will going forward but it's way too early (for me anyway) to make an "all the time" decision.

I feel like that if it hits the pin and comes out, it was probably going too fast, and hitting the pin probably kept it from going into three putt range. So, it saved a shot, and helped my score.

 

An optimist !!! Love it. :taunt:

[caniac6]

Played 9 this morning. We played with the pin in, and one guy that was resistant at first, said that he thought it was easier to aim with the pin in. I had a couple birdies, so the pin will stay in.

 

So what happens when you hit the pin and it comes out ? What then ? :D

 

I think we're all getting a little bit ahead of ourselves though, especially since about 2/3 of us won't play a round until at least March.

 

I've played 2 regular rounds and a scramble so far and have left it in most of the time and believe I will going forward but it's way too early (for me anyway) to make an "all the time" decision.

I feel like that if it hits the pin and comes out, it was probably going too fast, and hitting the pin probably kept it from going into three putt range. So, it saved a shot, and helped my score.

 

An optimist !!! Love it. :taunt:

You better believe it! Survived a heart attack in October, and I'm back walking the course. The glass is 100% full!

[Sawgrass]

Played 9 this morning. We played with the pin in, and one guy that was resistant at first, said that he thought it was easier to aim with the pin in. I had a couple birdies, so the pin will stay in.

 

So what happens when you hit the pin and it comes out ? What then ? :D

 

I think we're all getting a little bit ahead of ourselves though, especially since about 2/3 of us won't play a round until at least March.

 

I've played 2 regular rounds and a scramble so far and have left it in most of the time and believe I will going forward but it's way too early (for me anyway) to make an "all the time" decision.

I feel like that if it hits the pin and comes out, it was probably going too fast, and hitting the pin probably kept it from going into three putt range. So, it saved a shot, and helped my score.

 

An optimist !!! Love it. :taunt:

You better believe it! Survived a heart attack in October, and I'm back walking the course. The glass is 100% full!

Good for you, sincere congratulations, go get 'em!

[nsxguy]

Played 9 this morning. We played with the pin in, and one guy that was resistant at first, said that he thought it was easier to aim with the pin in. I had a couple birdies, so the pin will stay in.

 

So what happens when you hit the pin and it comes out ? What then ? :D

 

I think we're all getting a little bit ahead of ourselves though, especially since about 2/3 of us won't play a round until at least March.

 

I've played 2 regular rounds and a scramble so far and have left it in most of the time and believe I will going forward but it's way too early (for me anyway) to make an "all the time" decision.

I feel like that if it hits the pin and comes out, it was probably going too fast, and hitting the pin probably kept it from going into three putt range. So, it saved a shot, and helped my score.

 

An optimist !!! Love it. :taunt:

You better believe it! Survived a heart attack in October, and I'm back walking the course. The glass is 100% full!

 

Good Great for you. :yahoo:

 

Hope I'm as lucky when this damned aortic valve finally gets replaced. :)

 

Edited to clarify - I'm told it's not a matter of "if" but when. So far, no biggie but,,,,,,,,,,

[Roadking2003]

Another study confirming that you should leave the pin in.

 

[Hawkeye77]

Another study confirming that you should leave the pin in.

 

 

BS, watched it and didn't do a single test of what happens when the putt is short!

 

Actually, enjoyed watching that.

[Roadking2003]

Another study confirming that you should leave the pin in.

 

 

BS, watched it and didn't do a single test of what happens when the putt is short!

 

Actually, enjoyed watching that.

 

Yes, who knows if leaving the pin in would help short putts go in? Maybe they need to test using only putts that are 6" short.

[xenocide1]

Another test but more speeds and angles.

 

[Golfnuck]

Two weeks and four rounds of golf so far .............

 

Intent of the new flag stick rule is to speed up play.

 

But not working ........... at least for our group.

 

We did however have a couple of unintended conflicts whereby a flag stick was removed when the player wanted it in and visa versa.

 

Lets see what this weekend brings.

 

 

 

From USGA website

 

Reasons for Change:

Allowing a player to putt with the flagstick in the hole without fear of penalty should generally help speed up play.

When the players did not have caddies, the previous Rule could result in considerable delay.

On balance it is expected that there is no advantage in being able to putt with the unattended flagstick in the hole:

• In some cases, the ball may strike the flagstick and bounce out of the hole when it might otherwise have been holed, and
  
• In other cases, the ball may hit the flagstick and finish in the hole when it might otherwise have missed.
  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nsxguy]

You and your guys will get used to the "process".

 

It's new, it's a change, and sometimes it takes a little time to get used to.

[Sawgrass]

You and your guys will get used to the "process".

 

It's new, it's a change, and sometimes it takes a little time to get used to.

It might be true that a little flexibility by participants will help. Though it might not end up happening. If you have a four-foot putt and you prefer the flagstick to be in the hole, do you go ahead and putt since it's so very unlikely that a four-foot putt will actually be positively impacted by the flagstick? Or do you insist it be put back in "on principle?'

[sui generis]

Two weeks and four rounds of golf so far .............

 

Intent of the new flag stick rule is to speed up play.

 

But not working ........... at least for our group.

 

We did however have a couple of unintended conflicts whereby a flag stick was removed when the player wanted it in and visa versa.

 

Lets see what this weekend brings.

 

 

 

From USGA website

 

 

Reasons for Change:

Allowing a player to putt with the flagstick in the hole without fear of penalty should generally help speed up play.

When the players did not have caddies, the previous Rule could result in considerable delay.

On balance it is expected that there is no advantage in being able to putt with the unattended flagstick in the hole:

• In some cases, the ball may strike the flagstick and bounce out of the hole when it might otherwise have been holed, and
  
• In other cases, the ball may hit the flagstick and finish in the hole when it might otherwise have missed.
  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you don't want it to work, then it probably won't. However, it works for many who haven't made up their minds ahead of time. :swoon:

[Roadking2003]

You and your guys will get used to the "process".

 

It's new, it's a change, and sometimes it takes a little time to get used to.

 

Yes, our group has already shifted to leaving it in except for very short putts. It took a few rounds to get accustomed to the new visual. Overall, I do think it speeds up play but only a minor amount.

[jmkenn0]

Bigger the greens > impact on speed

[Golfnuck]

Two weeks and four rounds of golf so far .............

 

Intent of the new flag stick rule is to speed up play.

 

But not working ........... at least for our group.

 

We did however have a couple of unintended conflicts whereby a flag stick was removed when the player wanted it in and visa versa.

 

Lets see what this weekend brings.

 

 

 

From USGA website

 

 

Reasons for Change:

Allowing a player to putt with the flagstick in the hole without fear of penalty should generally help speed up play.

When the players did not have caddies, the previous Rule could result in considerable delay.

On balance it is expected that there is no advantage in being able to putt with the unattended flagstick in the hole:

• In some cases, the ball may strike the flagstick and bounce out of the hole when it might otherwise have been holed, and
  
• In other cases, the ball may hit the flagstick and finish in the hole when it might otherwise have missed.
  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you don't want it to work, then it probably won't. However, it works for many who haven't made up their minds ahead of time. :swoon:

 

Actually I agree with the change.

 

Today's round was a lot smoother. Generally if everyones putt is more than 20 feet away the pin was left in and who ever was closest would remove the pin for the 2nd putt. This probably save some time as before someone wound have to tend then go back and putt.

 

I do forsee some potential problems for money games and tournaments like club championships. What happens if the ball hits the pin and stays out and the putter says hey I wanted the pin out. Or someone pulls the pin and the ball hits the back of the cup and jumps out and the putter says hey I never ask to have the pin out. At least under the previous rules the person tending or near the pin knew they had to pull it out. Now better communication is needed.