2019 And The Pin Is In

[HatsForBats]

In my group yesterday, one guy wanted it out all the time, the other three didn't care. So when "one guy" wanted it out the "other three" stood by and allowed "one guy" to manage his own flagstick. By about hole 7, the "problem" cured itself. ;)

We have a guy in our league who will putt from 30 yards off the green and will always request the flag be pulled! Why he does this we have no idea other than to be a pain in the Word not allowed. He can pull his own flag now if we are all leaving it in!

How very considerate of you gentlemen. A player exercises his choice, perfectly acceptable under the rules, and you all refuse to help him out unless he follows YOUR choice? And presumably this happens to someone you might consider a friend? Well done.

 

Meh, I could definitely see the first scenario playing out in my regular groups and most consider everyone else their friends (at least golf friends). The closer knit the group the more likely I think this is to happen without a need for others outside the group to get their backs up about it. If someone is going against the flow within the regular group it would be more shocking if they didn't get some grief about it.

 

If someone has tried it for a length of time and then decided it is not for them then perhaps we would change our approach to the situation. We have one guy that will ask for balls to be marked when they are clearly not close to being in the way. On more than one occasion he has been told flat out "just hit the shot". He is notoriously slow and sometimes needs to be reminded he is slowing up the pace (lost balls are another sticking point with him). A tournament situation would be different. In casual games the groups rules are sometimes more important IMO.

 

For the second scenario I could see it getting old quick especially with certain players I have played with in league. If someone has a history of doing things where the intent may just be to be annoying then I am all for it. Staying further away from the pin than them for as many shots as possible would allow me to say "If you want it out, go for it" and still keep a clean conscience in my mind.

[jmkenn0]

So I announced going in that I was going to do it the entire round before we started-

• I would actually hold the pin until it was my turn to putt, or put it in and out - that seemed to make it where the time lost messing with the flag minimal
  
• We have really heavy flags (similar to the UK) because the course is windy and exposed, but it didn't seem to impact anyone
  
• Its winter here, so holes haven't been cut in a few months. There was some overgrowth, where you would see a ball actually lodge between the flag and overgrowth before it fell into the hole. But we didn't have any hit the flag and pop out
  
• I putted lights out randomly, so everyone was putting with it in by the end of the round
  

My theory, which I can't necessarily say was proven after one round because I'm a notoriously streaky putter, was the important thing to me wasn't banging it off the pin, but having an aim point dead in the middle of the hole. That held true, but it also seemed to be easier to aim just left/right of pin as well for inside left/right putts. But we'll see.....

[bspn]

In casual games the groups rules are sometimes more important IMO.

 

 

Exactly. The vast majority of us play for fun with little more than the post-round drinks or fun money on the line, so there's nothing worse than that one guy in the group who thinks they're putting for the Masters win on every hole. Tournament play is a different story, but for a casual foursome common sense needs to prevail in order to ensure that an already common problem (slow play) doesn't become even worse.

[Evolved]

This new rule is irrelevant for 99% of golfers. Amateurs playing a casual round never had to follow the rules of golf, you could have been putting with the pin in for years. People playing solo do it all the time. It has nothing to do with pace of play either.

[davep043]

In casual games the groups rules are sometimes more important IMO.

 

 

Exactly. The vast majority of us play for fun with little more than the post-round drinks or fun money on the line, so there's nothing worse than that one guy in the group who thinks they're putting for the Masters win on every hole. Tournament play is a different story, but for a casual foursome common sense needs to prevail in order to ensure that an already common problem (slow play) doesn't become even worse.

I really don't see the flag issue slowing play substantially if people know what they're doing. If I'm closest to the hole, I can tend (or pull) the flag for the furthest guy, and have the flag back in the hole a second or two after the putt stops rolling. In a fourball, someone should always be available to handle the flag without delaying anything. The flag might get passed from one person to another a few times, but it still shouldn't slow things down.

Of course, as I've been reminded, I live in this idyllic world where I play with generally honest people, who have generally honest handicaps, and are generally knowledgeable about how to handle the logistics of playing golf. For those of you in a different situation, I can't help you.

[Sawgrass]

This new rule is irrelevant for 99% of golfers. Amateurs playing a casual round never had to follow the rules of golf, you could have been putting with the pin in for years. People playing solo do it all the time. It has nothing to do with pace of play either.

Amateurs playing a casual round of golf never had to follow the rules of golf. Unless they wanted to have a valid handicap. Neither did professionals have to follow the rules, unless they actually wanted to win some money.

[DavePelz4]

In casual games the groups rules are sometimes more important IMO.

 

 

Exactly. The vast majority of us play for fun with little more than the post-round drinks or fun money on the line, so there's nothing worse than that one guy in the group who thinks they're putting for the Masters win on every hole. Tournament play is a different story, but for a casual foursome common sense needs to prevail in order to ensure that an already common problem (slow play) doesn't become even worse.

I really don't see the flag issue slowing play substantially if people know what they're doing. If I'm closest to the hole, I can tend (or pull) the flag for the furthest guy, and have the flag back in the hole a second or two after the putt stops rolling. In a fourball, someone should always be available to handle the flag without delaying anything. The flag might get passed from one person to another a few times, but it still shouldn't slow things down.

Of course, as I've been reminded, I live in this idyllic world where I play with generally honest people, who have generally honest handicaps, and are generally knowledgeable about how to handle the logistics of playing golf. For those of you in a different situation, I can't help you.

 

I generally agree with your post.

 

Generally.

[Hawkeye77]

In casual games the groups rules are sometimes more important IMO.

 

 

Exactly. The vast majority of us play for fun with little more than the post-round drinks or fun money on the line, so there's nothing worse than that one guy in the group who thinks they're putting for the Masters win on every hole. Tournament play is a different story, but for a casual foursome common sense needs to prevail in order to ensure that an already common problem (slow play) doesn't become even worse.

 

Or someone else deciding what is common sense for someone else. Lots of BS getting posted.

[Hawkeye77]

This new rule is irrelevant for 99% of golfers. Amateurs playing a casual round never had to follow the rules of golf, you could have been putting with the pin in for years. People playing solo do it all the time. It has nothing to do with pace of play either.

 

Far more than 1% have some attachment to the rules.

[gripandrip]

Played Sunday. Kept the pin in most of the time. Only complaint from our group was that it was a little more difficult to grab the ball out of the hole.

 

:)

[DaveLeeNC]

This new rule is irrelevant for 99% of golfers. Amateurs playing a casual round never had to follow the rules of golf, you could have been putting with the pin in for years. People playing solo do it all the time. It has nothing to do with pace of play either.

 

More than 1% of the golfers out there post scores for handicap purposes. And in those cases such rules matter (to them and to other handicap golfers).

 

dave

[DaveLeeNC]

Played Sunday. Kept the pin in most of the time. Only complaint from our group was that it was a little more difficult to grab the ball out of the hole.

 

:)

 

OOPS - I can hear it now.

 

"I leave the pin in out of consideration of my playing partners, but I am not going to putt that 2 footer because it is too hard to get the ball out of the hole".

 

It's gonna happen.

 

dave

[gripandrip]

Played Sunday. Kept the pin in most of the time. Only complaint from our group was that it was a little more difficult to grab the ball out of the hole.

 

:)

 

OOPS - I can hear it now.

 

"I leave the pin in out of consideration of my playing partners, but I am not going to putt that 2 footer because it is too hard to get the ball out of the hole".

 

It's gonna happen.

 

dave

 

My hand got muddy rubbing against the top of the hole. Sunday was a bit wet, and some were wearing winter gloves. There will always be something if you want the flag pulled.

[Sawgrass]

Played Sunday. Kept the pin in most of the time. Only complaint from our group was that it was a little more difficult to grab the ball out of the hole.

 

:)

 

OOPS - I can hear it now.

 

"I leave the pin in out of consideration of my playing partners, but I am not going to putt that 2 footer because it is too hard to get the ball out of the hole".

 

It's gonna happen.

 

dave

 

My hand got muddy rubbing against the top of the hole. Sunday was a bit wet, and some were wearing winter gloves. There will always be something if you want the flag pulled.

Easily fixed with a six inch diameter hole.

 

(Anybody know which hole-making company's shares I should buy?)

[Mr. Bean]

Played Sunday. Kept the pin in most of the time. Only complaint from our group was that it was a little more difficult to grab the ball out of the hole.

 

:)

 

OOPS - I can hear it now.

 

"I leave the pin in out of consideration of my playing partners, but I am not going to putt that 2 footer because it is too hard to get the ball out of the hole".

 

It's gonna happen.

 

dave

 

My hand got muddy rubbing against the top of the hole. Sunday was a bit wet, and some were wearing winter gloves. There will always be something if you want the flag pulled.

Easily fixed with a six inch diameter hole.

 

(Anybody know which hole-making company's shares I should buy?)

 

There is another solution.

 

The hole shall be drilled to be two meters deep. Once a ball is in the hole there is no way to get it out. In the end of the day course staff empties the holes and sells the balls to customers of that course. This does not only speed up the play but also increases the income of the course which, in turn, improves the quality of the course.

 

Oh, and those who do not complete the hole shall pay an additional fee of 200 bitcoins.

 

EDIT: Sorry, I completely forgot! Those who touch the pin will get an electric shock of 20 000 volts. That should keep them from trying to comply with the Rules !!

[jmkenn0]

^So its like a game of operation?

[CheckJV]

Played Sunday. Kept the pin in most of the time. Only complaint from our group was that it was a little more difficult to grab the ball out of the hole.

 

:)

 

OOPS - I can hear it now.

 

"I leave the pin in out of consideration of my playing partners, but I am not going to putt that 2 footer because it is too hard to get the ball out of the hole".

 

It's gonna happen.

 

dave

 

My hand got muddy rubbing against the top of the hole. Sunday was a bit wet, and some were wearing winter gloves. There will always be something if you want the flag pulled.

 

Perhaps a 12-step hand diet to lose some of that pesky hand fat!

 

Original poster here. I did forget to mention that one guy in our group said that the only reason he might not play with the pin in was that it was a little difficult to get the ball out of the hole.

 

BTW - I started this thread to discuss our shared actual experiences with this new rule. Appreciate those comments so far. Although the hypotheticals are entertaining as well. I’m eagerly anticipating the first story of a fight over a in or out disagreement.

[HatsForBats]

In casual games the groups rules are sometimes more important IMO.

 

 

Exactly. The vast majority of us play for fun with little more than the post-round drinks or fun money on the line, so there's nothing worse than that one guy in the group who thinks they're putting for the Masters win on every hole. Tournament play is a different story, but for a casual foursome common sense needs to prevail in order to ensure that an already common problem (slow play) doesn't become even worse.

I really don't see the flag issue slowing play substantially if people know what they're doing. If I'm closest to the hole, I can tend (or pull) the flag for the furthest guy, and have the flag back in the hole a second or two after the putt stops rolling. In a fourball, someone should always be available to handle the flag without delaying anything. The flag might get passed from one person to another a few times, but it still shouldn't slow things down.

Of course, as I've been reminded, I live in this idyllic world where I play with generally honest people, who have generally honest handicaps, and are generally knowledgeable about how to handle the logistics of playing golf. For those of you in a different situation, I can't help you.

 

Test it out with a foursome. Ask the other players how they prefer to play it that day (in or out) and when you get 3 that agree you do the opposite for all of your shots. Let us know how it works out. If nothing else it should at least be a fun experiment.

[nsxguy]

In my group yesterday, one guy wanted it out all the time, the other three didn't care. So when "one guy" wanted it out the "other three" stood by and allowed "one guy" to manage his own flagstick. By about hole 7, the "problem" cured itself. ;)

 

LOL

 

Played my first round today with my regular group. 3 of us didn't care but 1 guy wanted it out.

 

By the 4th hole he didn't bother and we pretty much left it in the entire way 'round.

 

 

My normal group has decided to leave it in per Pelz's study. We had 1 putt yesterday that may have been affected by the flag and it was a make on a putt going pretty fast. So our data set is 1 putt that the flag helped. We had no misses due to the flag stick. I am going to try to track this out over the season.

 

Unfortunately you have NO "data" either way since you admit it "may" have helped.

 

And therein lies the issue with collecting said data. One has virtually NO WAY of knowing whether one that hit and went in would have NOT gone in had the flagstick not been there,,,,,,,,, and vice versa,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

 

Original poster here. I did forget to mention that one guy in our group said that the only reason he might not play with the pin in was that it was a little difficult to get the ball out of the hole.

 

BTW - I started this thread to discuss our shared actual experiences with this new rule. Appreciate those comments so far. Although the hypotheticals are entertaining as well. I’m eagerly anticipating the first story of a fight over a in or out disagreement.

 

If guys in a group are really going to "fight" over this, they've probably fought over a lot of other things already. (cool)

[QEight]

Played Sunday. Kept the pin in most of the time. Only complaint from our group was that it was a little more difficult to grab the ball out of the hole.

 

:)

 

OOPS - I can hear it now.

 

"I leave the pin in out of consideration of my playing partners, but I am not going to putt that 2 footer because it is too hard to get the ball out of the hole".

 

It's gonna happen.

 

dave

 

This was, and still is, my only gripe against the new flag rule. People with fat fingers or whatever reason messing with the edges of the hole. I am afraid that already by afternoon the hole is damaged more than it was by the evening last year. The good point is that nobody will try to pick the ball up with the head of their putter anymore, I would think.

[Mr. Bean]

Played Sunday. Kept the pin in most of the time. Only complaint from our group was that it was a little more difficult to grab the ball out of the hole.

 

:)

 

OOPS - I can hear it now.

 

"I leave the pin in out of consideration of my playing partners, but I am not going to putt that 2 footer because it is too hard to get the ball out of the hole".

 

It's gonna happen.

 

dave

 

This was, and still is, my only gripe against the new flag rule. People with fat fingers or whatever reason messing with the edges of the hole. I am afraid that already by afternoon the hole is damaged more than it was by the evening last year. The good point is that nobody will try to pick the ball up with the head of their putter anymore, I would think.

 

I guess you forgot the new Definition of 'Holed'... Yes, they will...

[sooner66]

In my group yesterday, one guy wanted it out all the time, the other three didn't care. So when "one guy" wanted it out the "other three" stood by and allowed "one guy" to manage his own flagstick. By about hole 7, the "problem" cured itself. ;)

 

LOL

 

Played my first round today with my regular group. 3 of us didn't care but 1 guy wanted it out.

 

By the 4th hole he didn't bother and we pretty much left it in the entire way 'round.

 

 

My normal group has decided to leave it in per Pelz's study. We had 1 putt yesterday that may have been affected by the flag and it was a make on a putt going pretty fast. So our data set is 1 putt that the flag helped. We had no misses due to the flag stick. I am going to try to track this out over the season.

 

Unfortunately you have NO "data" either way since you admit it "may" have helped.

 

And therein lies the issue with collecting said data. One has virtually NO WAY of knowing whether one that hit and went in would have NOT gone in had the flagstick not been there,,,,,,,,, and vice versa,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

 

Original poster here. I did forget to mention that one guy in our group said that the only reason he might not play with the pin in was that it was a little difficult to get the ball out of the hole.

 

BTW - I started this thread to discuss our shared actual experiences with this new rule. Appreciate those comments so far. Although the hypotheticals are entertaining as well. I’m eagerly anticipating the first story of a fight over a in or out disagreement.

 

If guys in a group are really going to "fight" over this, they've probably fought over a lot of other things already. (cool)

 

I disagree that we have no data. We know that every putt that touched the flag was made. We don't know if the flag did anything to help the putts, but we know that the ball touching the flag pole didn't hurt any putts that round. We can't know if they would have gone in without the flag. Now you can argue that it isn't useful, but it is still data. We had 36 putts hit the flag stick and stay in. 0 hit the flag stick and stay out.

[Mr. Bean]

I disagree that we have no data. We know that every putt that touched the flag was made. We don't know if the flag did anything to help the putts, but we know that the ball touching the flag pole didn't hurt any putts that round. We can't know if they would have gone in without the flag. Now you can argue that it isn't useful, but it is still data. We had 36 putts hit the flag stick and stay in. 0 hit the flag stick and stay out.

 

I can easily hit 100 putts touching the pin and going in. Also I can easily make 100 putts touching the pin and staying out. Now, if I did that, what would that data tell me?

[DavePelz4]

I disagree that we have no data. We know that every putt that touched the flag was made. We don't know if the flag did anything to help the putts, but we know that the ball touching the flag pole didn't hurt any putts that round. We can't know if they would have gone in without the flag. Now you can argue that it isn't useful, but it is still data. We had 36 putts hit the flag stick and stay in. 0 hit the flag stick and stay out.

 

I can easily hit 100 putts touching the pin and going in. Also I can easily make 100 putts touching the pin and staying out. Now, if I did that, what would that data tell me?

 

That you're doing a lot of putting.

[nsxguy]

 

I disagree that we have no data. We know that every putt that touched the flag was made. We don't know if the flag did anything to help the putts, but we know that the ball touching the flag pole didn't hurt any putts that round. We can't know if they would have gone in without the flag. Now you can argue that it isn't useful, but it is still data. We had 36 putts hit the flag stick and stay in. 0 hit the flag stick and stay out.

 

Hence my use of the quotes around "data" and the "either way" that followed.

 

But OK, you "win". No USEFUL data then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :hi:

[Mr. Bean]

I disagree that we have no data. We know that every putt that touched the flag was made. We don't know if the flag did anything to help the putts, but we know that the ball touching the flag pole didn't hurt any putts that round. We can't know if they would have gone in without the flag. Now you can argue that it isn't useful, but it is still data. We had 36 putts hit the flag stick and stay in. 0 hit the flag stick and stay out.

 

I can easily hit 100 putts touching the pin and going in. Also I can easily make 100 putts touching the pin and staying out. Now, if I did that, what would that data tell me?

 

That you're doing a lot of putting.

 

Exactly. Nothing more.

[golferlaird]

 

 

Wait for your course to get the new flagsticks, then do a putt test.

[Golfnuck]

If everybody agrees to leave the pin in, I think it will save a few minutes, but otherwise eventful. It will slow things down when one or two want it in and the others want it out.

 

First round under the new rules.

 

One guy did not care at all if flag was in or out.

 

One guy alternated depending on length of putt and slope.

 

One guy pin out all the time.

 

I wanted to keep the pin in all the time.

 

My experience is that unless everyone agrees to keep the pin in it will take a lot longer having to pull the pin for some and to keep the pin in for others.

 

If the purpose of the rule change is to speed up play then I suspect it will not work.

[Mr. Bean]

My experience is that unless everyone agrees to keep the pin in it will take a lot longer having to pull the pin for some and to keep the pin in for others.

 

 

Why should everyone agree to keep the pin in? Why not out?

 

Keeping pin in during a stroke from the Putting Green is an OPTION, not a must.

[CheckJV]

My experience is that unless everyone agrees to keep the pin in it will take a lot longer having to pull the pin for some and to keep the pin in for others.

 

 

Why should everyone agree to keep the pin in? Why not out?

 

Keeping pin in during a stroke from the Putting Green is an OPTION, not a must.

 

It’s interesting to note that the reciprocal is also true. Pre-round negotiations will now require diplomacy.