2019 Honda LPGA Thailand Feb 21-24

[tstephen]

I think I'll leave the discussion on this to the already vigorous discussion in the other sub-forum.

 

These players did nothing wrong at all so I guess I don't see it as much of an issue to distract from the tournament and I know many, including myself, enjoy reading about the LPGA tourneys. My apologies for distracting from that, and no criticism of any that want to discuss it implied or intended. I just need to get out!

 

I would said backstopping reach it's peak on The PGA Tour a good 15 years ago at a solid 100% of the time.

 

I just laugh at the commentators like Ian Baker Finch acting like it's a relatively new phenomenon on the tour.

 

It was so prevalent in the early 2000's that I actually got a little pissed off at a friend of mine that would always run up to mark his ball next to the hole. The cool thing is now with the new pin rule guys just run up and tap-in.

[deadsolid...shank]

You’d have to make a line all the way around the green wouldn’t you? Like a painted line similar to a hazard line?

 

That's one way, but all those paint lines on every hole would look bad aesthetically. My suggestion is to just put two stakes 10 yards in front of the green and any player chipping inside of the stakes all the way to the back and side of the green would be impacted by this backstopping rule. I guess you could put two more stakes in back of the green to make an imaginary square box around the green too.

 

That’s where I see a potential issue come up, how much time would be spent trying to determine if a ball was inside or outside the line (similar to looking down the line between OB stakes). Maybe it wouldn’t be an issue at all either, maybe if players thought they were close they’d jut go ahead and mark.

 

But any stakes that close to green are eventually going to come into play. Can you imagine a ball heading long right over the 15th green at Augusta, clipping a stake and kicking the ball left into the pond! Can you imagine if it was Tiger’s ball!?

 

That’s why I thought of the painted line, it won’t have any impact on any balls, and it’s also very easy to determine if a ball is within the area or not.

[Holy Moses]

You’d have to make a line all the way around the green wouldn’t you? Like a painted line similar to a hazard line?

 

That's one way, but all those paint lines on every hole would look bad aesthetically. My suggestion is to just put two stakes 10 yards in front of the green and any player chipping inside of the stakes all the way to the back and side of the green would be impacted by this backstopping rule. I guess you could put two more stakes in back of the green to make an imaginary square box around the green too.

 

That’s where I see a potential issue come up, how much time would be spent trying to determine if a ball was inside or outside the line (similar to looking down the line between OB stakes). Maybe it wouldn’t be an issue at all either, maybe if players thought they were close they’d jut go ahead and mark.

 

But any stakes that close to green are eventually going to come into play. Can you imagine a ball heading long right over the 15th green at Augusta, clipping a stake and kicking the ball left into the pond! Can you imagine if it was Tiger’s ball!?

 

That’s why I thought of the painted line, it won’t have any impact on any balls, and it’s also very easy to determine if a ball is within the area or not.

 

Good points there. There's a lot more sprinkler heads on every green and a ball rarely hits them and flies off. Golf is a beautiful game and I just think painting a line around every green takes the "natural" beauty of a golf course away. You could make these stakes pretty low to the ground to minimize impact.

[deadsolid...shank]

You’d have to make a line all the way around the green wouldn’t you? Like a painted line similar to a hazard line?

 

That's one way, but all those paint lines on every hole would look bad aesthetically. My suggestion is to just put two stakes 10 yards in front of the green and any player chipping inside of the stakes all the way to the back and side of the green would be impacted by this backstopping rule. I guess you could put two more stakes in back of the green to make an imaginary square box around the green too.

 

That’s where I see a potential issue come up, how much time would be spent trying to determine if a ball was inside or outside the line (similar to looking down the line between OB stakes). Maybe it wouldn’t be an issue at all either, maybe if players thought they were close they’d jut go ahead and mark.

 

But any stakes that close to green are eventually going to come into play. Can you imagine a ball heading long right over the 15th green at Augusta, clipping a stake and kicking the ball left into the pond! Can you imagine if it was Tiger’s ball!?

 

That’s why I thought of the painted line, it won’t have any impact on any balls, and it’s also very easy to determine if a ball is within the area or not.

 

Good points there. There's a lot more sprinkler heads on every green and a ball rarely hits them and flies off. Golf is a beautiful game and I just think painting a line around every green takes the "natural" beauty of a golf course away. You could make these stakes pretty low to the ground to minimize impact.

 

That’s all true, and yes, that would probably be the best answer, soemthing that sits flush to the ground that probably won’t impact a ball.

[legitimategolf]

I don't care if Amy and Ariya were rushing to finish the round so they could go volunteer at the local hospital. The intent matters not IMO. Though unintentional, Amy ended up with a clear advantage, and it was entirely and easily avoidable. Rickie Fowler didn't intend to drop from the wrong height and he didn't intend to gain an advantage. But it was an improper procedure and he got the penalty and that's generally how penalties work. Amy's public statements indicate she feels a little sheepish, that she got away with something. I don't think she meant to cheat there, but also think she made no effort to not cheat, if that makes any sense. In other words, anyone playing a game where the goal is to get the ball near as the hole as possible can easily see that any object lying just beyond the hole, whether it's a rock, a log, a ball can only assist in keeping your ball from going too far past. To deny that, to claim you didn't think a ball lying just past the hole would/could be of any advantage, is insanely dishonest.

 

I wish they had just applied the penalty. I think she would've taken it just fine, probably would've on balance felt better/less guilty about the whole situation. And maybe to the audience, the issue would've felt more settled. But no, the LPGA had to officially stick up for her, and her "intent", and now a cloud of suspicion will linger around LPGA, Amy Olson, pro golf in general. For what price. Two lousy strokes. In any case going forward I'm sure players--both the colluders and non-colluders alike--will be more circumspect, now that the issue has been dragged out into the light.

[Holy Moses]

I don't care if Amy and Ariya were rushing to finish the round so they could go volunteer at the local hospital. The intent matters not IMO. Though unintentional, Amy ended up with a clear advantage, and it was entirely and easily avoidable. Rickie Fowler didn't intend to drop from the wrong height and he didn't intend to gain an advantage. But it was an improper procedure and he got the penalty and that's generally how penalties work. Amy's public statements indicate she feels a little sheepish, that she got away with something. I don't think she meant to cheat there, but also think she made no effort to not cheat, if that makes any sense. In other words, anyone playing a game where the goal is to get the ball near as the hole as possible can easily see that any object lying just beyond the hole, whether it's a rock, a log, a ball can only assist in keeping your ball from going too far past. To deny that, to claim you didn't think a ball lying just past the hole would/could be of any advantage, is insanely dishonest.

 

I wish they had just applied the penalty. I think she would've taken it just fine, probably would've on balance felt better/less guilty about the whole situation. And maybe to the audience, the issue would've felt more settled. But no, the LPGA had to officially stick up for her, and her "intent", and now a cloud of suspicion will linger around LPGA, Amy Olson, pro golf in general. For what price. Two lousy strokes. In any case going forward I'm sure players--both the colluders and non-colluders alike--will be more circumspect, now that the issue has been dragged out into the light.

 

The problem is that the rule says backstopping is only wrong if the rules committee thinks it was intended to be an advantage by the players. If you don't think Amy intended to cheat, then you are in agreement with how the LPGA Tour handled the situation.

[legitimategolf]

Lily "Muni" He is acquitting herself alright. Her rise to prominence as a professional golfer/sex symbol probably spells the end of my fandom of LPGA golf. Don't like her, don't like what she represents. That's ok, I had a decent run. I'll find something else to pass the time.

 

No offense, but you seem shocked like she just transformed herself after becoming a LPGA`er. She`s been showing off her assets for years. She`s not the first, and won`t be the last.

 

Been showing off for years but now she has an LPGA membership. She is going to seize the spotlight in a big way, just watch. I believe she intends to take over. I saw her mugging in a photo alongside So Yeon and Lydia, made me want to puke. Muni's thought bubble was so obvious. Move over old ladies, this is Muni's tour now.

[legitimategolf]

The problem is that the rule says backstopping is only wrong if the rules committee thinks it was intended to be an advantage by the players. If you don't think Amy intended to cheat, then you are in agreement with how the LPGA Tour handled the situation.

 

Then I agree, the rule sucks. As does this whole underlying assumption that golfers are so ethical and pure. Too many rules decisions are made based on this assumption. Anyways I would hope that players just become more aware on the whole. Pros are already committed to "protecting the field" and they all want to do it, they just need to figure out to include backstopping under that same umbrella.

[ChronicSlicer]

Lily "Muni" He is acquitting herself alright. Her rise to prominence as a professional golfer/sex symbol probably spells the end of my fandom of LPGA golf. Don't like her, don't like what she represents. That's ok, I had a decent run. I'll find something else to pass the time.

 

No offense, but you seem shocked like she just transformed herself after becoming a LPGA`er. She`s been showing off her assets for years. She`s not the first, and won`t be the last.

 

Been showing off for years but now she has an LPGA membership. She is going to seize the spotlight in a big way, just watch. I believe she intends to take over. I saw her mugging in a photo alongside So Yeon and Lydia, made me want to puke. Muni's thought bubble was so obvious. Move over old ladies, this is Muni's tour now.

 

I don`t completely disagree, but in a maybe not so "role model" sort of way she could be a good thing for drawing crowds and viewers. Right or wrong if an extra 5,000 of her IG followers tune into an event just to watch her flaunt herself around thats good for business.

 

She`s never gonna take over the LPGA unless she becomes a winner, or at least a contender on a regular basis. I have no doubt she uses her looks to every advantage possible, good for her..at least she worked hard and made it to the big show by performance and not only because she`s attractive.

[Holy Moses]

The problem is that the rule says backstopping is only wrong if the rules committee thinks it was intended to be an advantage by the players. If you don't think Amy intended to cheat, then you are in agreement with how the LPGA Tour handled the situation.

 

Then I agree, the rule sucks. As does this whole underlying assumption that golfers are so ethical and pure. Too many rules decisions are made based on this assumption. Anyways I would hope that players just become more aware on the whole. Pros are already committed to "protecting the field" and they all want to do it, they just need to figure out to include backstopping under that same umbrella.

 

Part of me wants to get rid of intent when discussing rules violations. Then the backstopping rule would be cleared up. But what about when you accidentally moved your ball on the green with your putter when you are addressing it or you can't tell if a player moved the ball with his or her putter or not (DJ at the US Open a few years ago)? Only penalizing on intent as part of a rules violation doesn't seem to work with every rule.

[Stooch]

Lily "Muni" He is acquitting herself alright. Her rise to prominence as a professional golfer/sex symbol probably spells the end of my fandom of LPGA golf. Don't like her, don't like what she represents. That's ok, I had a decent run. I'll find something else to pass the time.

 

No offense, but you seem shocked like she just transformed herself after becoming a LPGA`er. She`s been showing off her assets for years. She`s not the first, and won`t be the last.

 

Been showing off for years but now she has an LPGA membership. She is going to seize the spotlight in a big way, just watch. I believe she intends to take over. I saw her mugging in a photo alongside So Yeon and Lydia, made me want to puke. Muni's thought bubble was so obvious. Move over old ladies, this is Muni's tour now.

 

I don`t completely disagree, but in a maybe not so "role model" sort of way she could be a good thing for drawing crowds and viewers. Right or wrong if an extra 5,000 of her IG followers tune into an event just to watch her flaunt herself around thats good for business.

 

She`s never gonna take over the LPGA unless she becomes a winner, or at least a contender on a regular basis. I have no doubt she uses her looks to every advantage possible, good for her..at least she worked hard and made it to the big show by performance and not only because she`s attractive.

 

Golf's Anna Kournikova :taunt:

[hebsan]

This is my take on the Amy / Ariya incident. Ariya's ball was at least 3 feet to the right of the cup. Do you really believe Amy was aiming for her ball so that she could use it as backstop? Amy hit a bad pitch and it got away from her, and unintentionally hit Ariya's ball.

[Evolved]

 

Part of me wants to get rid of intent when discussing rules violations. Then the backstopping rule would be cleared up. But what about when you accidentally moved your ball on the green with your putter when you are addressing it or you can't tell if a player moved the ball with his or her putter or not (DJ at the US Open a few years ago)? Only penalizing on intent as part of a rules violation doesn't seem to work with every rule.

 

It's simple . Enforce all rules regardless of intent. If you accidentally move the ball on the green with your putter that should be a penalty. If you don't like it, be more careful.

 

A player blatantly breaks the rules and people here want to blame the media, hilarious. Let's not televise the event and not allow any spectators that way these poor players won't have to deal with the pressure of following the rules.

[postfold]

Stacked leaderboard, should be a great final round.

 

I'm not a fan of the backstopping rule. I think it's dumb, don't @ me. Rules that involve determinations of intent are always problematic.

 

Time to catch up on last night's action, thank goodness for DVRs.

[tstephen]

How is Tiger's ball on the short 2nd not backstopping?

 

His approach from 134 within 2' pin high right.

 

His 2 competitors pitching inside 55yd.

 

There should be no rule whatsoever and it should be up to players discretion just like in determining where a ball has crossed a water hazard. Their decision is final.

 

Referring to today's 3rd round World Championship

 

There seems to be a distinction between approaching the green vs green high or over the green. Rules should never have any such distinction. The rules always state through the green.

[Mellow]

Can't wait for the finish, should be a great neck-and-neck battle.

 

I'd be very happy for Amy to win! Very cool to see her climbing after all, after day 1. This really is her playground.

 

Big opportunity for Jenny Shin; I'm interested to see how she does.

 

I'm a big Minjee fan, so can't help cheering for her as always. Gooo Minjeeee!

 

Legitimate, c'mon man! You really think it's that bad? Things just don't look that always-gloomy to me. I agree, there's other players who could have been invited. Gonna have to see how much that happens. Being beautiful is a big life advantage. But eventually Muni will sink or swim on the tour on her own merits. (That's possible to say because of sponsor invite money not counting; that was a wise person who put that in.) I don't feel like I know much about her, but just like anyone newly on the tour this is her big chance to make it; she should get a fair shake.

 

We all gotta focus on the players you like and the stuff that makes you happy. So many fun players and personalities on tour.

 

I don't know about a Sunday collapse here. I feel like Amy and Minjee should both have the experience to not lose it in this particular situation, and give each other a good run. Other good players not far behind too. The pressure is high as always, but gonna hope for the best for everyone to hold it together.

[Mellow]

Been showing off for years but now she has an LPGA membership. She is going to seize the spotlight in a big way, just watch. I believe she intends to take over. I saw her mugging in a photo alongside So Yeon and Lydia, made me want to puke. Muni's thought bubble was so obvious. Move over old ladies, this is Muni's tour now.

 

Lot got posted while I was posting, didn't see these yet. I'd have to say: as if! No way on this Earth she could compare to Lydia or So Yeon without years and years of high achieving. She's standing next to giants there, everyone knows that.

[deadsolid...shank]

 

Part of me wants to get rid of intent when discussing rules violations. Then the backstopping rule would be cleared up. But what about when you accidentally moved your ball on the green with your putter when you are addressing it or you can't tell if a player moved the ball with his or her putter or not (DJ at the US Open a few years ago)? Only penalizing on intent as part of a rules violation doesn't seem to work with every rule.

 

It's simple . Enforce all rules regardless of intent. If you accidentally move the ball on the green with your putter that should be a penalty. If you don't like it, be more careful.

 

A player blatantly breaks the rules and people here want to blame the media, hilarious. Let's not televise the event and not allow any spectators that way these poor players won't have to deal with the pressure of following the rules.

 

Exactly what rule was blatantly broken? Or broken at all?

[Seamus_McDuff]

This is my take on the Amy / Ariya incident. Ariya's ball was at least 3 feet to the right of the cup. Do you really believe Amy was aiming for her ball so that she could use it as backstop? Amy hit a bad pitch and it got away from her, and unintentionally hit Ariya's ball.

 

I’d be willing to bet it was closer to 1’ than 3’.

 

How close would it have to be for you to think it should be marked? 1’? 6”? 2”?

 

I must have missed where anyone said she was aiming at the ball, not the pin.

[Stooch]

Can't wait for the finish, should be a great neck-and-neck battle.

 

I'd be very happy for Amy to win! Very cool to see her climbing after all, after day 1. This really is her playground.

 

Big opportunity for Jenny Shin; I'm interested to see how she does.

 

I'm a big Minjee fan, so can't help cheering for her as always. Gooo Minjeeee!

 

Legitimate, c'mon man! You really think it's that bad? Things just don't look that always-gloomy to me. I agree, there's other players who could have been invited. Gonna have to see how much that happens. Being beautiful is a big life advantage. But eventually Muni will sink or swim on the tour on her own merits. (That's possible to say because of sponsor invite money not counting; that was a wise person who put that in.) I don't feel like I know much about her, but just like anyone newly on the tour this is her big chance to make it; she should get a fair shake.

 

We all gotta focus on the players you like and the stuff that makes you happy. So many fun players and personalities on tour.

 

I don't know about a Sunday collapse here. I feel like Amy and Minjee should both have the experience to not lose it in this particular situation, and give each other a good run. Other good players not far behind too. The pressure is high as always, but gonna hope for the best for everyone to hold it together.

I would use Cheyanne Woods as a comparable at this point (Muni could get some wins to elevate herself potentially), Cheyanne is beautiful and Tiger's niece, sure they'll gush over her on the network coverage when she's in contention or we get to see her a bit in normal coverage but it's not like she gets special treatment because of her name and looks. In the end winning trumps all, looks will always make you rich with sponsorship but that the way it's always been in sports. God bless Natalie Gulbis and yes she's a tour winner but I'm betting she's made more in sponsorship than she has in tour winnings in her career.

[Mellow]

Yeah, that is a good comparison!

 

I just don't feel, for lack of a better word, threatened. Like in this picture with Lydia and So Yeon: Muni earned the right to be in the picture by making it on tour. She did earn that. And if she brings glamour to the tour, that's great. Not a bad thing. But there's just no way players like Lyds and So Yeon, and all their accomplishments, are going to get overshadowed. Everyone knows they're the giants there. Also besides, they're beauties themselves.

[Stooch]

Yeah, that is a good comparison!

 

I just don't feel, for lack of a better word, threatened. Like in this picture with Lydia and So Yeon: Muni earned the right to be in the picture by making it on tour. She did earn that. And if she brings glamour to the tour, that's great. Not a bad thing. But there's just no way players like Lyds and So Yeon, and all their accomplishments, are going to get overshadowed. Everyone knows they're the giants there. Also besides, they're beauties themselves.

Yeah the picture doesn't bug me and she is good for the tour if for any other reason to make in roads with the Chinese market and more to the point with event possibilities in China. China has great possibilities but they are terrible for taking the LPGA seriously, Chinese LPGA tour events getting cancelled is almost an annual thing lol. If Muni can have some success, she can help change the perspective possibly for a huge market which can be great for the LPGA. If you doubt the ability of a player to have this type of impact just look at Canadian Open gallery sizes pre Brooke Henderson and post Brooke Henderson.

[fredogolfer]

Lily "Muni" He is acquitting herself alright. Her rise to prominence as a professional golfer/sex symbol probably spells the end of my fandom of LPGA golf. Don't like her, don't like what she represents. That's ok, I had a decent run. I'll find something else to pass the time.

 

I can see what you're saying but she's not the first, Jan Stephenson, Natalie Gulbis, Laura Baugh, some of the attention given early to Wie, Pressel and Creamer, one has to assume was their potential to be "telegenic."

 

I was 12 when I started following tennis and Anna Kournikova was soaring up the ranks. She was 16 and made the semis of wimbledon. A couple of years later she came to play in a local WTA event. She was probably 18 by then and now its disgusting to remember how many men in their 40s and 50s were having her sign their shorts and how she was too happy to oblige. Reflecting now, one has to imagine they thought she was hot when she was underage. There were others the tennis world tried to model after her, Monique Viele, Ashley Harkleroad, and Maria Sharapova. It is disturbing to think how teenagers were being sexualized to make the sport popular.

 

However, Muni is very much an adult and she is somewhat proving she has talent to be out on the LPGA. She's earned her place. I hate watching her interviews because she talks like she's asking a question after every sentence but I can say she's accomplished more than Blair O'Neal, that one player who got the exemptions into Dubai, and played at San Diego State, I can't believe her name is escaping me and a few others.

 

I don't like it anymore than you do but there are a lot of other players to cheer for who do what matters the most, play golf.

[4waymiss]

Based on history, a player like Muni He would have done well to keep her tour card. Assuming she manages to barely keep her card, that would be around $100k. Assuming she pays her caddy $2k and gets 20 starts, that's $40k. Adding the travel and lodging expense, private club membership for practicing, she is basically playing for next month's rent.

 

Nothing wrong with flaunting her "assets" to get a few sponsors and invites. More power to her.

[rushfan96]

Lily "Muni" He is acquitting herself alright. Her rise to prominence as a professional golfer/sex symbol probably spells the end of my fandom of LPGA golf. Don't like her, don't like what she represents. That's ok, I had a decent run. I'll find something else to pass the time.

 

No offense, but you seem shocked like she just transformed herself after becoming a LPGA`er. She`s been showing off her assets for years. She`s not the first, and won`t be the last.

 

Been showing off for years but now she has an LPGA membership. She is going to seize the spotlight in a big way, just watch. I believe she intends to take over. I saw her mugging in a photo alongside So Yeon and Lydia, made me want to puke. Muni's thought bubble was so obvious. Move over old ladies, this is Muni's tour now.

 

I don`t completely disagree, but in a maybe not so "role model" sort of way she could be a good thing for drawing crowds and viewers. Right or wrong if an extra 5,000 of her IG followers tune into an event just to watch her flaunt herself around thats good for business.

 

She`s never gonna take over the LPGA unless she becomes a winner, or at least a contender on a regular basis. I have no doubt she uses her looks to every advantage possible, good for her..at least she worked hard and made it to the big show by performance and not only because she`s attractive.

 

Golf's Anna Kournikova :taunt:

 

 

 

Kournikova was ranked in the top ten and won Grand Slams.

[Stooch]

^^^^

I see what you did there, but was it Anna who won the Major or Martina Hingis (and they actually won 2 majors in doubles I believe) cause she has done it with multiple partners? I never said Anna wasn't a very good player more implying she'll be remembered for her looks rather than her Tennis abilities by most non-tennis diehards.

[rushfan96]

She won 16 titles.

[ChronicSlicer]

^^^^

I see what you did there, but was it Anna who won the Major or Martina Hingis (and they actually won 2 majors in doubles I believe) cause she has done it with multiple partners? I never said Anna wasn't a very good player more implying she'll be remembered for her looks rather than her Tennis abilities by most non-tennis diehards.

 

I never once watched tennis, but I sure as hell knew who Anna Kournikova was.

[bravedave]

Been showing off for years but now she has an LPGA membership. She is going to seize the spotlight in a big way, just watch. I believe she intends to take over. I saw her mugging in a photo alongside So Yeon and Lydia, made me want to puke. Muni's thought bubble was so obvious. Move over old ladies, this is Muni's tour now.

 

On the par 5 7th Saturday, Ariya was 20 yards past Muni's tee shot and Ariya used a 3 wood. Muni pulled out her 3 wood for her second shot and stuck it to within a few feet and made eagle. Lily oh Lily. She really is unassuming when she's playing. And she can play. I think somebody may have asked her to be in the photo. She just doesn't come across to me as somebody who would jump into a shot with those two. I've watched every shot of her's over the last three days. Wait did I just say that? No, I haven't hahaha but I met the legendary Scot Lottelee yesterday and he and his mate have. I've seen maybe ten holes so far and she comes across as a nice young unassuming woman. Her swing is so nice. The extension she gets with her follow through is a thing of beauty. She's a legitimate LPGA player.

 

About the controversy, I can see both sides but I think you nailed it. If it wasn't for reading this site I would have had no idea it happened.

[ppl4golf]

Pace of play trumps stupid rules. I’ll give Amy benefit of the doubt.

 

At how far would be required to mark the ball for others to hit up and not consider cheating?

 

There is already a rule not allowing a putt while on the green to hit another ball on the green. That’s where the line is.

 

One possible way to enforce backstopping rule that makes sense is for the player with the ball already on the green must play where it lies if it ends up being hit...no replacing and no need to ask around where it was and waste more time.

 

It you know you are around the hole, run over and mark it LOL

 

It does get ugly if the ball ended up being knocked into the hole LOL (maybe replace the ball in this rare circumstance)