My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

[drugazi]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @drugazi said:

> > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > @drugazi said:

> > > > The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

> > >

> > > I think it's worth discussing at what level equipment even begins to influence scoring. It's probably at a lower handicap than people think.

> > >

> > > If someone is chunking irons and missing 10-15 yards short I doubt equipment matters much. And to be fair, I still see those kinds of misses from my 10-handicap playing partner.

> > >

> > > So maybe we have to get down into the single figures for equipment to even matter?

> > >

> > > Would that change the tone of these debates? I bet it would if we all agreed that one has to have a low-handicap iron game for it to even matter.

> > >

> > > At the same time, it's also fair to point out someone who's chunking shots doesn't have the skill or knowledge to offer much through their anecdotal experience with blades.

> > >

> > > For instance, I would assume the actual results seen amongst MB, CB and AP2 irons would be a few yards at most. If we're talking about slight misses (what a good player will experience) we'll see a clear separation.

> > >

> > > If we're talking about chunking a shot, it won't matter.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I'm more interested in whether the few yards results in actual scoring differences, because this is relative to a given hole set up. And, to my mind, it's often a toss up.

>

> Well, that's a specific question that should be answerable with data.

>

> For instance, there's data from the Pro's regarding proximity to pin and how it affects putts. Putting drops off from 5' to 8' or from 16' to 19' in a measurable way.

>

> I would assume the same trend holds for amateurs in a similar way.

>

> I should be better from 20-ft than from 25-ft when putting. Or likewise, I would bet that I stand a better chance 2-putting versus having to get up and down from a green-side bunker.

>

> I don't have data for myself to prove those things but I assume it to be true.

>

> You don't have to assume those things. You might be better from 18-ft when putting than 12-ft but that would be rather shocking from statistical standpoint and it would indicate you have some major problems.

>

> Now, if you want to use low-probability anecdotal examples of when being closer to the hole was actually worse, that's totally fine as it does nothing to buck the larger statistical trends we see.

 

But you've used very specific examples that might as well be anecdotal. If the difference between blades and cavities meant that I would be 12 feet as opposed 18 feet away on the green, then your anecdote might be valid. The problem is that golf doesn't actually work that way. Are you telling me that you've never played a hole where it's better to miss short than long? You're lying to me. Let's say you are 150 to a back pin, and this is normally a full 9-iron. However, you misjudge the wind, and it's actually helping quite a bit, so it's playing more like 140. You go with your normal 150 swing and slightly mishit your cavity back iron. Let's say this only takes off a few yards of distance. However, the pin is back, and there are only a few paces to the back edge, before the green slopes off quite drastically. So, you missed the green long and your ball hit on the slope behind the green and kicked even farther away from the hole; you've also short-sided yourself. Now, take the same mishit with a blade, and let's say it results in a ten yard loss of distance... and you're pin high! Yes, this is a lucky and convenient scenario, but it serves the same purpose for demonstration: there are so many dang variables that go into every shot! Your analysis has blinders on.

[pinestreetgolf]

> If the players intent is to hit the target (which should be the number 1 goal) and as a rule any mishit will end up short and out of trouble seems pretty logical to me.

 

Because its silly to rely on a blade going shorter to stay out of trouble on a bad shot instead of actively managing the course to try to play away from it. Just hit one less GI iron and you'll get an identical result (on the numbers you posted above). A shorter shot goes less offline, by definition.

 

Its like always hitting PW instead of driver so you never miss a fairway. Its short and out of trouble!

 

 

[BiggErn]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > If the players intent is to hit the target (which should be the number 1 goal) and as a rule any mishit will end up short and out of trouble seems pretty logical to me.

>

> Because its silly to rely on a blade going shorter to stay out of trouble on a bad shot instead of actively managing the course to try to play away from it. Just hit one less GI iron and you'll get an identical result (on the numbers you posted above). A shorter shot goes less offline, by definition.

>

> Its like always hitting PW instead of driver so you never miss a fairway. Its short and out of trouble!

>

>

 

You’re just trying to market a driving wedge.

[BiggErn]

> @chisag said:

> ... Bigg Ern, I played golf with a mid index player today (15) that probably swung his driver around 80 mph, hit a slice and used a 12* closed face driver a flex light weight shaft and of course rarely hit the center but when he did it was like butter. I told him he needed to get a Nike Covert Tour 9* driver with a HZRDUS Black x flex shaft and practice with it. It works for MB users so I figured it should work for him.

>

 

Yea he’ll focus more and automatically be better. It’s like people just walk up and nonchalantly take a random whack at the ball unless they’re using an MB.

[MelloYello]

> @drugazi said:

> But you've used very specific examples that might as well be anecdotal. If the difference between blades and cavities meant that I would be 12 feet as opposed 18 feet away on the green, then your anecdote might be valid. The problem is that golf doesn't actually work that way. Are you telling me that you've never played a hole where it's better to miss short than long? You're lying to me. Let's say you are 150 to a back pin, and this is normally a full 9-iron. However, you misjudge the wind, and it's actually helping quite a bit, so it's playing more like 140. You go with your normal 150 swing and slightly mishit your cavity back iron. Let's say this only takes off a few yards of distance. However, the pin is back, and there are only a few paces to the back edge, before the green slopes off quite drastically. So, you missed the green long and your ball hit on the slope behind the green and kicked even farther away from the hole; you've also short-sided yourself. Now, take the same mishit with a blade, and let's say it results in a ten yard loss of distance... and you're pin high! Yes, this is a lucky and convenient scenario, but it serves the same purpose for demonstration: there are so many dang variables that go into every shot! Your analysis has blinders on.

 

You're either agreeing with me satirically (_in which case, thank you, job well done!_) or you don't see the irony in using 238 words to concoct a scenario wherein you throw a pencil and it lands on it's tip.

 

Imagine dividing the entire green complex up into a grid of 1-ft by 1-ft squares. Now let's sort the squares into one of two bins. The first bin will be for squares that lie on the boundary of 2 distinct regions (i.e. bunker vs rough). The second bin will be for squares that look like their neighbors.

 

What bin do you think will contain a larger number of squares?

 

 

[MelloYello]

> @nostatic said:

> Right before impact, all shots, good and bad exist. The moment of contact collapses the wave equation and I'm either on the green or in the lake. Or somewhere outside Nebula 314...

 

There's a joke about high-handicap golfers and random collapse but that would be too easy.

[MelloYello]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > If the players intent is to hit the target (which should be the number 1 goal) and as a rule any mishit will end up short and out of trouble seems pretty logical to me.

> >

> > Because its silly to rely on a blade going shorter to stay out of trouble on a bad shot instead of actively managing the course to try to play away from it. Just hit one less GI iron and you'll get an identical result (on the numbers you posted above). A shorter shot goes less offline, by definition.

> >

> > Its like always hitting PW instead of driver so you never miss a fairway. Its short and out of trouble!

> >

> >

>

> You’re just trying to market a driving wedge.

 

Uh...bro...it's called a GX-7...don't act like you didn't order one, too!

[BiggErn]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > > If the players intent is to hit the target (which should be the number 1 goal) and as a rule any mishit will end up short and out of trouble seems pretty logical to me.

> > >

> > > Because its silly to rely on a blade going shorter to stay out of trouble on a bad shot instead of actively managing the course to try to play away from it. Just hit one less GI iron and you'll get an identical result (on the numbers you posted above). A shorter shot goes less offline, by definition.

> > >

> > > Its like always hitting PW instead of driver so you never miss a fairway. Its short and out of trouble!

> > >

> > >

> >

> > You’re just trying to market a driving wedge.

>

> Uh...bro...it's called a GX-7...don't act like you didn't order one, too!

 

Still making payments on it!

[cliffhanger]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > If the players intent is to hit the target (which should be the number 1 goal) and as a rule any mishit will end up short and out of trouble seems pretty logical to me.

>

> Because its silly to rely on a blade going shorter to stay out of trouble on a bad shot instead of actively managing the course to try to play away from it. Just hit one less GI iron and you'll get an identical result (on the numbers you posted above). A shorter shot goes less offline, by definition.

>

> Its like always hitting PW instead of driver so you never miss a fairway. Its short and out of trouble!

>

> back in the day I could have missed a fairway easily with a PW. My case of the hooks was monumental... I near gave up the game before getting everything sorted out with a lesson that opened my eyes to truly understanding the swing.

As stated before I really focus on the target and not the trouble, however I can see how a golfer may be so worried about having a blowup hole that they would rather keep the ball short and in play over possible long and not ok. It doesn't help for making birdies though. Again I don't necessarily agree with it but it is relatable and I can only assume they are trying to maintain as much control (at least they think they are in control) as possible. There are those who think short and straight is better than long and crooked.

 

 

[nostatic]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > > If the players intent is to hit the target (which should be the number 1 goal) and as a rule any mishit will end up short and out of trouble seems pretty logical to me.

> > >

> > > Because its silly to rely on a blade going shorter to stay out of trouble on a bad shot instead of actively managing the course to try to play away from it. Just hit one less GI iron and you'll get an identical result (on the numbers you posted above). A shorter shot goes less offline, by definition.

> > >

> > > Its like always hitting PW instead of driver so you never miss a fairway. Its short and out of trouble!

> > >

> > >

> >

> > You’re just trying to market a driving wedge.

>

> Uh...bro...it's called a GX-7...don't act like you didn't order one, too!

 

Since "the putter is the most consistent stroke in your bag*", I'm forecasting a major shift towards driving putters...

 

*per SquareStrike

[revanant]

Hey folks—really appreciate all the responses. @pinestreetgolf especially—I think we agree, and I can add a bit more context on my thought process and usual results for carry vs roll with my various irons. I also owe you guys a recap of my round—long story short, I lost one or two strokes from iron play, but made them back up with good chipping. Lost the majority of strokes from putting and driving (e.g. had a 4 putt on the last hole.).

[Tree Levino]

This is a very weird thread to read. We aren't seeing people's swings and really have no idea how they get around a course. Most people I play with have a "serviceable" swing they can get around a course with but it's not pretty. Most rely on the trampoline effect an SGI iron gives them. I also have plenty of friends that are athletic and have a decent swing but don't practice so they just go about their business playing bogey golf. I find it hard to believe someone over a 20 cap is playing to their potential with blades but hey, it's your game. It is also very course dependant regarding a lot of what has been said later on in this thread. I play some courses that you could hack around and have no issue. Most of the courses I play, however, you would be in a world of hurt if you were mishitting clubs and getting the distance loses being talked about here. The screenshot is where I play in the winter. That hole is 175 and often plays into the wind because of the prevailing breezes. If you are short you're in the water or in that nightmare of a bunker. If these high cappers were playing their blades on this course I guarantee they'd be on BST afterwards looking for something with help. I'm considering playing blades because I'm confident in my swing, I practice a ton, I've got speed and my cap is dropping to mid singles. The other thread with the plus cap going back to cavities makes you rethink your process though.

 

 

[Nard_S]

> @nostatic said:

> .......But I think there are two very different arguments being offered. One is that blades help on the course for a mid-capper. Physics says probably not. Psychology would say, "perhaps...but how does that make you feel?" The other is that blades can help a mid-capper groove his/her swing on the range (then presumably game a CB or GI club). That one seems more feasible.

 

Maybe it's just that the damn things (in general) are heavier and some folks swing better with heavy.

 

 

[nsxguy]

Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

 

Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

 

I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

 

And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

[cliffhanger]

> @nsxguy said:

> Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

>

> Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

>

> I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

>

> And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

 

Most 10 dollar muni’s are like that... not so much when you anti up and play some real courses ?

[BiggErn]

> @cliffhanger said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

> >

> > Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

> >

> > I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

> >

> > And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

>

> Most 10 dollar muni’s are like that... not so much when you anti up and play some real courses ?

 

Yet the courses you play the trouble is always long? Lol cmon dude. Most courses the trouble varies from one hole to the other instead of it being in just one spot and sometimes there is no bail out and you just have to hit a shot. I’m still kinda baffled at the long miss as that is pretty just picking the wrong club.

[nostatic]

> @cliffhanger said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

> >

> > Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

> >

> > I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

> >

> > And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

>

> Most 10 dollar muni’s are like that... not so much when you anti up and play some real courses ?

 

Didn't Tiger hit a 5W on #8 long on purpose because that was way better than coming up short?

 

Augusta is pretty nice for a Muni course - nicer than mine (which is $10 weekday twilight - for 9 holes) :wink:

[drugazi]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @drugazi said:

> > > @bub72ck said:

> > > We get this topic frequently and I have to say I disagree. "Good" ball striking is a very relative term depending on what you are looking to get out of your game. If you find enjoyment out of that perfectly struck shot from a blade that's awesome, but to sluff off forgiveness between MBs and CBs is really painting with a broad brush. I don't know what your handicap is (you only said mid-high), but I am not sure you know what consistently finding the center of the club is. I don't think I do either. A round of golf for most anyone, save the top players in the world, is about consistency and quality of mis-hits. Losing 5 yards on a mis-hit shot is the difference between being on the green and off, or in a bunker, or in a water hazard. You said that your short game was weak. That weakness is going to be magnified by missed greens and further distance from the hole.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The bottom line is you can do whatever you wish with your game, but more than likely playing blades is costing you strokes.

> >

> > The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

>

> No offense but your last statement pretty much gives you away.

>

> Your walking 2 handicap doesn't mean a thing when you take the "exception" and try to make it the "rule". I have a dear friend who is a Mensa member. I barely understand him at times but he can barely boil water (OK, that's an "exaggeration for effect" but you get my point)

>

> NOBODY said "always missing longer is better". Nobody. And you, like he who's name cannot be spoken, bring up being sorft of a bunker or water being better than being in it with a CB. Goodness gracious.

>

> Please feel free to post as large a variety of circumstances as you can where being SHORT of one's intended target is BETTER than being closer to one's intended target.

>

> TIA

>

>

>

>

 

*you're

[nsxguy]

> @nostatic said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

> > >

> > > Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

> > >

> > > I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

> > >

> > > And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

> >

> > Most 10 dollar muni’s are like that... not so much when you anti up and play some real courses ?

>

> Didn't Tiger hit a 5W on #8 long on purpose because that was way better than coming up short?

>

> Augusta is pretty nice for a Muni course - nicer than mine (which is $10 weekday twilight - for 9 holes) :wink:

 

That's some muni - have to take a ride up there one day. LOL

 

Actually I think Tiger caught a flier out of the wet first cut. As soon as he hit it he knew it was way long but yes, I'm sure he did play to be long, just not quite that long.

 

Tiger won the tournament because of the 3 guys who drowned their golf balls on 12 going for the sucker pin. After Tiger saw Finau and Molinari drown their balls he went left and hit the fat part of the green. Kopeka before them also went in the drink. If the 3 of them had played safely, (and yes, I know all subsequent play would've most likely been different but), 2 of them would've TIED Tiger and the other (Koepka) would've won outright.

 

And to think that some knuckleheads around here are only looking at the flag and don't care what trouble's around,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, LMAO

[drugazi]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @drugazi said:

> > But you've used very specific examples that might as well be anecdotal. If the difference between blades and cavities meant that I would be 12 feet as opposed 18 feet away on the green, then your anecdote might be valid. The problem is that golf doesn't actually work that way. Are you telling me that you've never played a hole where it's better to miss short than long? You're lying to me. Let's say you are 150 to a back pin, and this is normally a full 9-iron. However, you misjudge the wind, and it's actually helping quite a bit, so it's playing more like 140. You go with your normal 150 swing and slightly mishit your cavity back iron. Let's say this only takes off a few yards of distance. However, the pin is back, and there are only a few paces to the back edge, before the green slopes off quite drastically. So, you missed the green long and your ball hit on the slope behind the green and kicked even farther away from the hole; you've also short-sided yourself. Now, take the same mishit with a blade, and let's say it results in a ten yard loss of distance... and you're pin high! Yes, this is a lucky and convenient scenario, but it serves the same purpose for demonstration: there are so many dang variables that go into every shot! Your analysis has blinders on.

>

> You're either agreeing with me satirically (_in which case, thank you, job well done!_) or you don't see the irony in using 238 words to concoct a scenario wherein you throw a pencil and it lands on it's tip.

>

> Imagine dividing the entire green complex up into a grid of 1-ft by 1-ft squares. Now let's sort the squares into one of two bins. The first bin will be for squares that lie on the boundary of 2 distinct regions (i.e. bunker vs rough). The second bin will be for squares that look like their neighbors.

>

> What bin do you think will contain a larger number of squares?

>

>

 

It's strange that you are trying to mock me for how many words I use? You might hold the record for the most responses to this forum lol. Feel free to read as many words as you want.

 

Let’s do a thought experiment... on any given shot, there are only two options: you are either going to be long or short (not counting the possibility of going in the hole). Do we have any reason to accept that missing longer is better than missing shorter? There are an insane amount of variables that go into this, but I’ll do some basic examples from my club, according to how it was laid out yesterday. Let’s assume that a slight mishit with a cavity back iron costs 5 yards, and a slight mishit with a blade iron costs 10 yards. This is extremely simplistic, but I think it’s the only way to reasonably start this conversation.

 

Hole 1 - the flag was front left. The front of the green is very receptive and soft. A shot five yards short will stay where it lands. A shot ten yards short will land in rough that is beaten down and takes the spin off the ball. Balls that land here jump forward several yards and roll. On this hole and with this setup, I’d rather hit it ten yards short. Plus 1, blade

 

Hole 2 - flag was back middle. This is a straightforward example. I’d rather be five yards short. Plus 1, cavity

 

Hole 3 - flag was front/middle center. There is a large sycamore tree in front of the green that you either have to go under or hook around. Assuming I go under, like I usually do, I’d prefer to be five yards short, because the ball doesn’t jump off the grass when it’s too short. Plus 2, cavity

 

Hole 4 - flag was back right, on the edge of the top tier. On this hole, it’s definitely better to be ten yards short, because balls that are five yards short hit into the tier and spin back off the green. Plus 2, blade

 

Hole 5 - flag was back middle. This is also a straightforward example. I’d rather be five yards short than ten yards short. Plus 3, cavity

 

Hole 6 - flag was middle left. This is also a straight forward example. I’d rather be five yards short than ten yards short. Plus 4, cavity

 

Hole 7 - flag was front right, tucked behind a bunker that is nearly impossible to get up and down out of to that flag. I like my chances ten yards short with a flop out of some light rough a lot better. Plus 3, blade

 

Hole 8 - flag was middle. Five yards short, and it’ll probably hit the back of the green side bunker and shoot to the back of the green, possibly off the green. Either way, not a great situation. Ten yards short, I’d either be in the bunker or short of it. This is a tough call. If the ball that lands on the backside of the bunker, I’m not positive where it would end up, so it’s hard to assess. Close call, but I’ll give .5 to cavity, so 4.5 cavity.

 

Hole 9 - flag was back middle. Shots missed five yards short stay where they land. Shots ten yards short always bounce forward off the back of a bunker at least five yards, usually more. Yesterday, I actually hit it ten yards short, after chunking my wedge. My ball rolled out to five feet below the cup. This hole, I would definitely say it’s better to be ten yards short. Plus 4, blade

 

In the end, we have a close call with the cavity having the slight advantage. You might wonder why I used this example if I’m arguing for blades. In my example, I controlled a ton of variables, merely to point out that the course itself hugely affects whether playing a cavity or blade is better. To say things like “it’s better to be 12 feet away than 18 feet” is just silly, because that’s not the way golf works. Golf is so much more complicated than that. If greens were the size of football fields and the pin was always in the middle, then yes, simple proximity to the hole would work as an assessment, but it absolutely does not work in the real world. One could imagine the above round going all kinds of different ways. To assume that missing farther is always going to result in a lower score is silly. Just ask Molinari whether he would’ve rather been in Ray’s creek or short of it. I think you know the answer. Molinari would rather have chunked the s*** out of that shot. If it was as obvious as you say, then literally every player on earth would play more forgiving clubs, because even Tiger has mishits. So why doesn't he? Is he stupid?

[cliffhanger]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

> > >

> > > Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

> > >

> > > I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

> > >

> > > And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

> >

> > Most 10 dollar muni’s are like that... not so much when you anti up and play some real courses ?

>

> Yet the courses you play the trouble is always long? Lol cmon dude. Most courses the trouble varies from one hole to the other instead of it being in just one spot and sometimes there is no bail out and you just have to hit a shot. I’m still kinda baffled at the long miss as that is pretty just picking the wrong club.

 

I didn’t say that... most courses I play the trouble is a good mix of everywhere... some holes there is trouble all around. It’s also a possibility to miss short by picking the wrong club... not just from a mishit.

[nsxguy]

> @drugazi said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @drugazi said:

> > > > @bub72ck said:

> > > > We get this topic frequently and I have to say I disagree. "Good" ball striking is a very relative term depending on what you are looking to get out of your game. If you find enjoyment out of that perfectly struck shot from a blade that's awesome, but to sluff off forgiveness between MBs and CBs is really painting with a broad brush. I don't know what your handicap is (you only said mid-high), but I am not sure you know what consistently finding the center of the club is. I don't think I do either. A round of golf for most anyone, save the top players in the world, is about consistency and quality of mis-hits. Losing 5 yards on a mis-hit shot is the difference between being on the green and off, or in a bunker, or in a water hazard. You said that your short game was weak. That weakness is going to be magnified by missed greens and further distance from the hole.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The bottom line is you can do whatever you wish with your game, but more than likely playing blades is costing you strokes.

> > >

> > > The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

> >

> > No offense but your last statement pretty much gives you away.

> >

> > Your walking 2 handicap doesn't mean a thing when you take the "exception" and try to make it the "rule". I have a dear friend who is a Mensa member. I barely understand him at times but he can barely boil water (OK, that's an "exaggeration for effect" but you get my point)

> >

> > NOBODY said "always missing longer is better". Nobody. And you, like he who's name cannot be spoken, bring up being sorft of a bunker or water being better than being in it with a CB. Goodness gracious.

> >

> > Please feel free to post as large a variety of circumstances as you can where being SHORT of one's intended target is BETTER than being closer to one's intended target.

> >

> > TIA

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> *you're

 

Geez, "sorft" ya couda got me on but "you're" ? Guess again.

[cliffhanger]

> @nostatic said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

> > >

> > > Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

> > >

> > > I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

> > >

> > > And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

> >

> > Most 10 dollar muni’s are like that... not so much when you anti up and play some real courses ?

>

> Didn't Tiger hit a 5W on #8 long on purpose because that was way better than coming up short?

>

> Augusta is pretty nice for a Muni course - nicer than mine (which is $10 weekday twilight - for 9 holes) :wink:

 

He did that with a back pin only. He would have hit an iron to the front with a front pin... so that’s not a given in that case.

[cliffhanger]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @nostatic said:

> > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

> > > >

> > > > Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

> > > >

> > > > I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

> > > >

> > > > And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

> > >

> > > Most 10 dollar muni’s are like that... not so much when you anti up and play some real courses ?

> >

> > Didn't Tiger hit a 5W on #8 long on purpose because that was way better than coming up short?

> >

> > Augusta is pretty nice for a Muni course - nicer than mine (which is $10 weekday twilight - for 9 holes) :wink:

>

> That's some muni - have to take a ride up there one day. LOL

>

> Actually I think Tiger caught a flier out of the wet first cut. As soon as he hit it he knew it was way long but yes, I'm sure he did play to be long, just not quite that long.

>

> Tiger won the tournament because of the 3 guys who drowned their golf balls on 12 going for the sucker pin. After Tiger saw Finau and Molinari drown their balls he went left and hit the fat part of the green. Kopeka before them also went in the drink. If the 3 of them had played safely, (and yes, I know all subsequent play would've most likely been different but), 2 of them would've TIED Tiger and the other (Koepka) would've won outright.

>

> And to think that some knuckleheads around here are only looking at the flag and don't care what trouble's around,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, LMAO

 

Tiger hit a draw with reduced spin... Molinari hit a slight cut which spun a lot more based on listening to reports... with the cut, came increased spin and was held up against the wind. The shot shape did him in, not the pin.

[BiggErn]

> @cliffhanger said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

> > > >

> > > > Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

> > > >

> > > > I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

> > > >

> > > > And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

> > >

> > > Most 10 dollar muni’s are like that... not so much when you anti up and play some real courses ?

> >

> > Yet the courses you play the trouble is always long? Lol cmon dude. Most courses the trouble varies from one hole to the other instead of it being in just one spot and sometimes there is no bail out and you just have to hit a shot. I’m still kinda baffled at the long miss as that is pretty just picking the wrong club.

>

> I didn’t say that... most courses I play the trouble is a good mix of everywhere... some holes there is trouble all around. It’s also a possibility to miss short by picking the wrong club... not just from a mishit.

 

Yes but MB user 101 course management says it’s always best to be short.....sometimes way short. I keep hearing the excuse from MB users that short is better than long (for whatever reason) but the only way to go long is to pull the wrong club. If I’m using a stick that is the ultimate in precision and workability I’m trying to put my self in scoring position more times than not instead of playing for a short miss. I guess that goes back to ball striking though and the confidence that MB gives which must not be much.

[drugazi]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @drugazi said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @drugazi said:

> > > > > @bub72ck said:

> > > > > We get this topic frequently and I have to say I disagree. "Good" ball striking is a very relative term depending on what you are looking to get out of your game. If you find enjoyment out of that perfectly struck shot from a blade that's awesome, but to sluff off forgiveness between MBs and CBs is really painting with a broad brush. I don't know what your handicap is (you only said mid-high), but I am not sure you know what consistently finding the center of the club is. I don't think I do either. A round of golf for most anyone, save the top players in the world, is about consistency and quality of mis-hits. Losing 5 yards on a mis-hit shot is the difference between being on the green and off, or in a bunker, or in a water hazard. You said that your short game was weak. That weakness is going to be magnified by missed greens and further distance from the hole.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The bottom line is you can do whatever you wish with your game, but more than likely playing blades is costing you strokes.

> > > >

> > > > The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

> > >

> > > No offense but your last statement pretty much gives you away.

> > >

> > > Your walking 2 handicap doesn't mean a thing when you take the "exception" and try to make it the "rule". I have a dear friend who is a Mensa member. I barely understand him at times but he can barely boil water (OK, that's an "exaggeration for effect" but you get my point)

> > >

> > > NOBODY said "always missing longer is better". Nobody. And you, like he who's name cannot be spoken, bring up being sorft of a bunker or water being better than being in it with a CB. Goodness gracious.

> > >

> > > Please feel free to post as large a variety of circumstances as you can where being SHORT of one's intended target is BETTER than being closer to one's intended target.

> > >

> > > TIA

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > *you're

>

> Geez, ":sorft" ya couda got me on but "you're" ? Guess again.

 

I'm pointing out the rambling of your post, which doesn't make any sense. Wtf are you talking about?

[cliffhanger]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

> > > > >

> > > > > Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

> > > > >

> > > > > I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

> > > > >

> > > > > And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

> > > >

> > > > Most 10 dollar muni’s are like that... not so much when you anti up and play some real courses ?

> > >

> > > Yet the courses you play the trouble is always long? Lol cmon dude. Most courses the trouble varies from one hole to the other instead of it being in just one spot and sometimes there is no bail out and you just have to hit a shot. I’m still kinda baffled at the long miss as that is pretty just picking the wrong club.

> >

> > I didn’t say that... most courses I play the trouble is a good mix of everywhere... some holes there is trouble all around. It’s also a possibility to miss short by picking the wrong club... not just from a mishit.

>

> Yes but MB user 101 course management says it’s always best to be short.....sometimes way short. I keep hearing the excuse from MB users that short is better than long (for whatever reason) but the only way to go long is to pull the wrong club. If I’m using a stick that is the ultimate in precision and workability I’m trying to put my self in scoring position more times than not instead of playing for a short miss. I guess that goes back to ball striking though and the confidence that MB gives which must not be much.

Yes some people do say that and it would definitely be player/ course specific. The only time I am purposely trying to land it short is with a back pin and trouble behind... I would rather have a mid range put over hiting from trouble.

 

[BiggErn]

> @cliffhanger said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

> > > > >

> > > > > Most 10 dollar muni’s are like that... not so much when you anti up and play some real courses ?

> > > >

> > > > Yet the courses you play the trouble is always long? Lol cmon dude. Most courses the trouble varies from one hole to the other instead of it being in just one spot and sometimes there is no bail out and you just have to hit a shot. I’m still kinda baffled at the long miss as that is pretty just picking the wrong club.

> > >

> > > I didn’t say that... most courses I play the trouble is a good mix of everywhere... some holes there is trouble all around. It’s also a possibility to miss short by picking the wrong club... not just from a mishit.

> >

> > Yes but MB user 101 course management says it’s always best to be short.....sometimes way short. I keep hearing the excuse from MB users that short is better than long (for whatever reason) but the only way to go long is to pull the wrong club. If I’m using a stick that is the ultimate in precision and workability I’m trying to put my self in scoring position more times than not instead of playing for a short miss. I guess that goes back to ball striking though and the confidence that MB gives which must not be much.

> Yes some people do say that and it would definitely be player/ course specific. The only time I am purposely trying to land it short is with a back pin and trouble behind... I would rather have a mid range put over hiting from trouble.

>

 

I’m about to let you in on a secret.....that’s the same course management mentality most all golfers use regardless of equipment and it can be accomplished with whatever you use. If I have a back pin at 145 yards and I hit a solid 9 iron 140 I want to get as much of that 140 as I can even though the shorter miss is still ok.

[pinestreetgolf]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @chisag said:

> > ... Bigg Ern, I played golf with a mid index player today (15) that probably swung his driver around 80 mph, hit a slice and used a 12* closed face driver a flex light weight shaft and of course rarely hit the center but when he did it was like butter. I told him he needed to get a Nike Covert Tour 9* driver with a HZRDUS Black x flex shaft and practice with it. It works for MB users so I figured it should work for him.

> >

>

> Yea he’ll focus more and automatically be better. It’s like people just walk up and nonchalantly take a random whack at the ball unless they’re using an MB.

 

Next time you see him tell him to cut the power steering cables to his car. You become an awesome driver because regular driving is so hard.

[nostatic]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @nostatic said:

> > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

> > > >

> > > > Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

> > > >

> > > > I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

> > > >

> > > > And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

> > >

> > > Most 10 dollar muni’s are like that... not so much when you anti up and play some real courses ?

> >

> > Didn't Tiger hit a 5W on #8 long on purpose because that was way better than coming up short?

> >

> > Augusta is pretty nice for a Muni course - nicer than mine (which is $10 weekday twilight - for 9 holes) :wink:

>

> That's some muni - have to take a ride up there one day. LOL

>

> Actually I think Tiger caught a flier out of the wet first cut. As soon as he hit it he knew it was way long but yes, I'm sure he did play to be long, just not quite that long.

>

> Tiger won the tournament because of the 3 guys who drowned their golf balls on 12 going for the sucker pin. After Tiger saw Finau and Molinari drown their balls he went left and hit the fat part of the green. Kopeka before them also went in the drink. If the 3 of them had played safely, (and yes, I know all subsequent play would've most likely been different but), 2 of them would've TIED Tiger and the other (Koepka) would've won outright.

>

> And to think that some knuckleheads around here are only looking at the flag and don't care what trouble's around,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, LMAO

 

iirc Tiger's caddie was on Couple's bag when he won at Augusta. Freddie hit is short on 12 but it miraculously stayed up. He wasn't going to encourage him to go for the pin.

 

The shot I'm thinking of Tiger asked his caddie about the grandstand (which was long). The bad miss was short, and he figured if he was going to miss, he'd miss long and get relief if it was really bad. Or I could be mis-remembering - been watching a lot of golf the last few weeks...