My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

[nsxguy]

> @drugazi said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @drugazi said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @drugazi said:

> > > > > > @bub72ck said:

> > > > > > We get this topic frequently and I have to say I disagree. "Good" ball striking is a very relative term depending on what you are looking to get out of your game. If you find enjoyment out of that perfectly struck shot from a blade that's awesome, but to sluff off forgiveness between MBs and CBs is really painting with a broad brush. I don't know what your handicap is (you only said mid-high), but I am not sure you know what consistently finding the center of the club is. I don't think I do either. A round of golf for most anyone, save the top players in the world, is about consistency and quality of mis-hits. Losing 5 yards on a mis-hit shot is the difference between being on the green and off, or in a bunker, or in a water hazard. You said that your short game was weak. That weakness is going to be magnified by missed greens and further distance from the hole.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The bottom line is you can do whatever you wish with your game, but more than likely playing blades is costing you strokes.

> > > > >

> > > > > The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

> > > >

> > > > No offense but your last statement pretty much gives you away.

> > > >

> > > > Your walking 2 handicap doesn't mean a thing when you take the "exception" and try to make it the "rule". I have a dear friend who is a Mensa member. I barely understand him at times but he can barely boil water (OK, that's an "exaggeration for effect" but you get my point)

> > > >

> > > > NOBODY said "always missing longer is better". Nobody. And you, like he who's name cannot be spoken, bring up being sorft of a bunker or water being better than being in it with a CB. Goodness gracious.

> > > >

> > > > Please feel free to post as large a variety of circumstances as you can where being SHORT of one's intended target is BETTER than being closer to one's intended target.

> > > >

> > > > TIA

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > *you're

> >

> > Geez, ":sorft" ya couda got me on but "you're" ? Guess again.

>

> I'm pointing out the rambling of your post, which doesn't make any sense. Wtf are you talking about?

 

MY rambling ? You wrote 1 long hard to read paragraph. I answered with three pretty short ones. So who was "rambling" again ? LOL

 

So OK, I give up. What did your "*you're" mean then ?

[cliffhanger]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > Didn't realize it before but the 2 courses I play on most often, in their 36 holes, have bunkers in play, often in combination, left, right, or center, **in FRONT on 34 of the 36 holes**. Some wrap around the side from a small bit to quite a bit and there are also some traps on one side or the other off the green.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Behind the greens, 0 on 1 course, 6 on the other.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I wonder why that is ??? LMAO

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And you misjudge the wind so the CB is over the back and the blade woulda been pin high ?!?!?! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Most 10 dollar muni’s are like that... not so much when you anti up and play some real courses ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Yet the courses you play the trouble is always long? Lol cmon dude. Most courses the trouble varies from one hole to the other instead of it being in just one spot and sometimes there is no bail out and you just have to hit a shot. I’m still kinda baffled at the long miss as that is pretty just picking the wrong club.

> > > >

> > > > I didn’t say that... most courses I play the trouble is a good mix of everywhere... some holes there is trouble all around. It’s also a possibility to miss short by picking the wrong club... not just from a mishit.

> > >

> > > Yes but MB user 101 course management says it’s always best to be short.....sometimes way short. I keep hearing the excuse from MB users that short is better than long (for whatever reason) but the only way to go long is to pull the wrong club. If I’m using a stick that is the ultimate in precision and workability I’m trying to put my self in scoring position more times than not instead of playing for a short miss. I guess that goes back to ball striking though and the confidence that MB gives which must not be much.

> > Yes some people do say that and it would definitely be player/ course specific. The only time I am purposely trying to land it short is with a back pin and trouble behind... I would rather have a mid range put over hiting from trouble.

> >

>

> I’m about to let you in on a secret.....that’s the same course management mentality most all golfers use regardless of equipment and it can be accomplished with whatever you use. If I have a back pin at 145 yards and I hit a solid 9 iron 140 I want to get as much of that 140 as I can even though the shorter miss is still ok.

 

again its player specific, and its no secret... i manage that situation regardless of what club type is in my hand. GI's, Blades, Player CB's, it doesn't matter. I pick a target and thats my focus... not the flag necessarily, my target. I acknowledge trouble and then when its time to hit, i try my best to look past it. Focusing on the positive helps me to be stress free and not worry about the trouble... i will worry about it if the ball goes there. I just use the opposite mentality if the pin is up front with trouble short. Pick a target just past it if possible and commit to that target.

[cliffhanger]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @drugazi said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @drugazi said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @drugazi said:

> > > > > > > @bub72ck said:

> > > > > > > We get this topic frequently and I have to say I disagree. "Good" ball striking is a very relative term depending on what you are looking to get out of your game. If you find enjoyment out of that perfectly struck shot from a blade that's awesome, but to sluff off forgiveness between MBs and CBs is really painting with a broad brush. I don't know what your handicap is (you only said mid-high), but I am not sure you know what consistently finding the center of the club is. I don't think I do either. A round of golf for most anyone, save the top players in the world, is about consistency and quality of mis-hits. Losing 5 yards on a mis-hit shot is the difference between being on the green and off, or in a bunker, or in a water hazard. You said that your short game was weak. That weakness is going to be magnified by missed greens and further distance from the hole.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The bottom line is you can do whatever you wish with your game, but more than likely playing blades is costing you strokes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

> > > > >

> > > > > No offense but your last statement pretty much gives you away.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your walking 2 handicap doesn't mean a thing when you take the "exception" and try to make it the "rule". I have a dear friend who is a Mensa member. I barely understand him at times but he can barely boil water (OK, that's an "exaggeration for effect" but you get my point)

> > > > >

> > > > > NOBODY said "always missing longer is better". Nobody. And you, like he who's name cannot be spoken, bring up being sorft of a bunker or water being better than being in it with a CB. Goodness gracious.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please feel free to post as large a variety of circumstances as you can where being SHORT of one's intended target is BETTER than being closer to one's intended target.

> > > > >

> > > > > TIA

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > *you're

> > >

> > > Geez, ":sorft" ya couda got me on but "you're" ? Guess again.

> >

> > I'm pointing out the rambling of your post, which doesn't make any sense. Wtf are you talking about?

>

> MY rambling ? You wrote 1 long hard to read paragraph. I answered with three pretty shots ones. So who was "rambling" again ? LOL

>

> So OK, I give up. What did your "*you're" mean then ?

 

Hey man... what does "i answered with three pretty shots ones" mean? thats very close to rambling again... lol

[cliffhanger]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @chisag said:

> > > ... Bigg Ern, I played golf with a mid index player today (15) that probably swung his driver around 80 mph, hit a slice and used a 12* closed face driver a flex light weight shaft and of course rarely hit the center but when he did it was like butter. I told him he needed to get a Nike Covert Tour 9* driver with a HZRDUS Black x flex shaft and practice with it. It works for MB users so I figured it should work for him.

> > >

> >

> > Yea he’ll focus more and automatically be better. It’s like people just walk up and nonchalantly take a random whack at the ball unless they’re using an MB.

>

> Next time you see him tell him to cut the power steering cables to his car. You become an awesome driver because regular driving is so hard.

 

Wouldn't changing the power steering to rack and pinion be a better analogy to increase the stiffness of the steering so more force is required to turn the steering wheel and it would in turn be harder? Cutting the lines would just make it dangerous right. To take it a step further i would stiffen all suspension components, put in rigid racing bucket seats with a 5 point harness and remove any other comfort items like a radio, AC, etc.

[texcrom]

> @revanant said:

> Hey folks—really appreciate all the responses. @pinestreetgolf especially—I think we agree, and I can add a bit more context on my thought process and usual results for carry vs roll with my various irons. I also owe you guys a recap of my round—long story short, I lost one or two strokes from iron play, but made them back up with good chipping. Lost the majority of strokes from putting and driving (e.g. had a 4 putt on the last hole.).

 

“.....but made them back up with good chipping.” Sorry, once you’ve lost the stroke, it is gone. You may minimize the damage with a good chip, but you never get a stroke back.

 

 

[Titleist_PT23]

> @drugazi said:

> Let’s do a thought experiment... on any given shot, there are only two options: you are either going to be long or short (not counting the possibility of going in the hole). Do we have any reason to accept that missing longer is better than missing shorter? There are an insane amount of variables that go into this, but I’ll do some basic examples from my club, according to how it was laid out yesterday. Let’s assume that a slight mishit with a cavity back iron costs 5 yards, and a slight mishit with a blade iron costs 10 yards. This is extremely simplistic, but I think it’s the only way to reasonably start this conversation.

>

> Hole 1 - the flag was front left. The front of the green is very receptive and soft. A shot five yards short will stay where it lands. A shot ten yards short will land in rough that is beaten down and takes the spin off the ball. Balls that land here jump forward several yards and roll. On this hole and with this setup, I’d rather hit it ten yards short. Plus 1, blade

>

> Hole 2 - flag was back middle. This is a straightforward example. I’d rather be five yards short. Plus 1, cavity

>

> Hole 3 - flag was front/middle center. There is a large sycamore tree in front of the green that you either have to go under or hook around. Assuming I go under, like I usually do, I’d prefer to be five yards short, because the ball doesn’t jump off the grass when it’s too short. Plus 2, cavity

>

> Hole 4 - flag was back right, on the edge of the top tier. On this hole, it’s definitely better to be ten yards short, because balls that are five yards short hit into the tier and spin back off the green. Plus 2, blade

>

> Hole 5 - flag was back middle. This is also a straightforward example. I’d rather be five yards short than ten yards short. Plus 3, cavity

>

> Hole 6 - flag was middle left. This is also a straight forward example. I’d rather be five yards short than ten yards short. Plus 4, cavity

>

> Hole 7 - flag was front right, tucked behind a bunker that is nearly impossible to get up and down out of to that flag. I like my chances ten yards short with a flop out of some light rough a lot better. Plus 3, blade

>

> Hole 8 - flag was middle. Five yards short, and it’ll probably hit the back of the green side bunker and shoot to the back of the green, possibly off the green. Either way, not a great situation. Ten yards short, I’d either be in the bunker or short of it. This is a tough call. If the ball that lands on the backside of the bunker, I’m not positive where it would end up, so it’s hard to assess. Close call, but I’ll give .5 to cavity, so 4.5 cavity.

>

> Hole 9 - flag was back middle. Shots missed five yards short stay where they land. Shots ten yards short always bounce forward off the back of a bunker at least five yards, usually more. Yesterday, I actually hit it ten yards short, after chunking my wedge. My ball rolled out to five feet below the cup. This hole, I would definitely say it’s better to be ten yards short. Plus 4, blade

>

> In the end, we have a close call with the cavity having the slight advantage. You might wonder why I used this example if I’m arguing for blades. In my example, I controlled a ton of variables, merely to point out that the course itself hugely affects whether playing a cavity or blade is better. To say things like “it’s better to be 12 feet away than 18 feet” is just silly, because that’s not the way golf works. Golf is so much more complicated than that. If greens were the size of football fields and the pin was always in the middle, then yes, simple proximity to the hole would work as an assessment, but it absolutely does not work in the real world. One could imagine the above round going all kinds of different ways. To assume that missing farther is always going to result in a lower score is silly. Just ask Molinari whether he would’ve rather been in Ray’s creek or short of it. I think you know the answer. Molinari would rather have chunked the **** out of that shot. If it was as obvious as you say, then literally every player on earth would play more forgiving clubs, because even Tiger has mishits. So why doesn't he? Is he stupid?

I think this is a good example laying out what could happen. I obviously don't know the specific shot/course in detail, but I think in general Holes 1, 4, 7, and 9 are closer to the 0.5 you gave to the cavity on Hole 8.

-On Holes 1 and 9, bounces are random - what if it's wet or sometimes the ball rockets too far after hitting in a place that takes all the spin-off.

-Hole 4 - seems a bit excessive that a ball could spin back that much but hard for me to know definitively otherwise.

-Hole 7 - if the pin is that tucked I'm not sure a flop over a bunker is that much better odds of getting up and down. Maybe if the ball in the bunker plugs you are screwed but if it's on the upslope it may be easier. Who knows.

 

Regardless, what you write in each of the examples may be true, so we don't need to argue over it (one could also just change a few factors like water hazard 6-10 yards short that changes what's preferred). I just think if I had to play 200 rounds on 50-100 different courses over the year in all kinds of varying conditions, on average I would rather have my (slight) misses come up ~5 yards short than ~10 yards short.

 

We can list examples like laying up short of the creek on #12 is better than being in it, which is definitely true on that hole. But what about #17 at Sawgrass? I don't think anyone would advocate chipping the ball a few yards forward to hit your second shot there.

 

I don't have an answer for why Tiger (or all pros) don't hit some type of non-blade club as they still have mishits (I've actually asked this to myself in my own posts before). Clearly, their frequency of misses is much lower, but this still wouldn't resolve the absolute measurement of being closer on misses when they do occur. Obviously, there are some other benefits of blades that these players (pros) prefer. My personal belief is that most mid-cappers (myself included) really can't take advantage of the benefits blades offer to hitting shots. I think most people at this level have 1 predominate shot shape they are primarily relying on. Can they make the ball curve the other way from time to time? Certainly. But lets put a 10 capper a) in the fairway on #11 at Augusta and ask him to hit draws to the back left pin location and b) on the tee box on #12 at Augusta and ask him to hit fades to the far right pin location. My guess is that they will run out of balls quickly (other holes that come to mind are #18 fairway at Doral or #17 tee box at PGA National/Bear Trap).

 

Of course, there are other factors for blades like look, feel, lack of offset, etc, etc, which are all fine and the examples where people do actually hit them better.

 

[Mcgeeno]

Didnt read through all the posts but I have been on both ends of the spectrum.

 

I play SL Cobra shovels now (2.8 handicap) but I did play various blades for years.

 

Nothing felt better or hit it closer for me than a flushed blade. I knocked over more flags than ever in that period. I also hit too many bad shots that I get away with much more now.

 

My best shots were better. My bad shots were way worse with blades.

 

Everyone is different though.

[revanant]

> @texcrom said:

> > @revanant said:

> > Hey folks—really appreciate all the responses. @pinestreetgolf especially—I think we agree, and I can add a bit more context on my thought process and usual results for carry vs roll with my various irons. I also owe you guys a recap of my round—long story short, I lost one or two strokes from iron play, but made them back up with good chipping. Lost the majority of strokes from putting and driving (e.g. had a 4 putt on the last hole.).

>

> “.....but made them back up with good chipping.” Sorry, once you’ve lost the stroke, it is gone. You may minimize the damage with a good chip, but you never get a stroke back.

>

>

 

I don’t see a difference between a shot I hit to the fringe, chip to the pin, and putt for par vs a shot to the green and 2 putt for par.

 

Sure, I could hit the ball closer/better on a given swing. But if I par the hole, I’m not worrying about it. In contrast, my missed putts are just additional strokes that I can’t make up. And my driver cost me some strokes by putting me in trouble.

 

My general takeaway so far is that the blades aren’t hurting me, and I should focus my money on lessons and my time on practice to improve my putting, driving and short game.

[BiggErn]

> @revanant said:

> > @texcrom said:

> > > @revanant said:

> > > Hey folks—really appreciate all the responses. @pinestreetgolf especially—I think we agree, and I can add a bit more context on my thought process and usual results for carry vs roll with my various irons. I also owe you guys a recap of my round—long story short, I lost one or two strokes from iron play, but made them back up with good chipping. Lost the majority of strokes from putting and driving (e.g. had a 4 putt on the last hole.).

> >

> > “.....but made them back up with good chipping.” Sorry, once you’ve lost the stroke, it is gone. You may minimize the damage with a good chip, but you never get a stroke back.

> >

> >

>

> I don’t see a difference between a shot I hit to the fringe, chip to the pin, and putt for par vs a shot to the green and 2 putt for par.

>

> Sure, I could hit the ball closer/better on a given swing. But if I par the hole, I’m not worrying about it. In contrast, my missed putts are just additional strokes that I can’t make up. And my driver cost me some strokes by putting me in trouble.

>

> My general takeaway so far is that the blades aren’t hurting me, and I should focus my money on lessons and my time on practice to improve my putting, driving and short game.

 

This is some really backwards thinking. I would say most people are WAY more apt to 2 putt for par than chop/pitch and make a putt for par. I would think it especially true for double digit HCs. To say they are equal is ridiculous.

[MelloYello]

> @drugazi said:

> It's strange that you are trying to mock me for how many words I use? You might hold the record for the most responses to this forum lol. Feel free to read as many words as you want.

 

You're going to continue to get mocked because all your responses repeatedly make use of anecdotal examples _(a lot of which don't even support your argument!)_.

 

> @drugazi said:

> Do we have any reason to accept that missing longer is better than missing shorter?

 

Yes, we do. Stop pretending it's a dad gum mystery. I laid it out in my last response to you. Read it until it clicks. Generally-speaking, one's odds of getting up and down taper-off as he/she gets further from the hole because instances of being a foot closer don't tend to result in a lie that is significantly better. One has a lower probability of landing on the "edge" of two regions than somewhere inside the periphery of a region (be it a good one or not).

 

> @drugazi said:

> Hole 1 - the flag was front left. The front of the green is very receptive and soft. A shot five yards short will stay where it lands. A shot ten yards short will land in rough that is beaten down and takes the spin off the ball. Balls that land here jump forward several yards and roll. On this hole and with this setup, I’d rather hit it ten yards short. Plus 1, blade

 

You literally just said that you would rather see a golf ball fall well short and into the rough as opposed to landing slightly short (which I presume is fairway grass!?).

 

I can't recall many scenarios wherein landing 5 yards shorter in the rough magically kicks the ball farther versus simply avoiding the rough altogether.

 

This is insane.

 

> @drugazi said:

> Hole 2 - flag was back middle. This is a straightforward example. I’d rather be five yards short. Plus 1, cavity

 

Dude, this logic will apply for back pins as well as middle pins all over the world each and every time so we can go ahead and call it right here. That's 66.7% of golf holes whereupon minimizing the loss of distance will be a positive thing.

 

That's not even mentioning the fact that the dynamics involved argue that the perimeter-weighted CB will tend to keep it straighter, too!

 

So right here you've agreed to a logical argument that could be applied to _2/3 of golf holes_!

 

> @drugazi said:

> Hole 4 - flag was back right, on the edge of the top tier. On this hole, it’s definitely better to be ten yards short, because balls that are five yards short hit into the tier and spin back off the green. Plus 2, blade

 

I'll do one more because it just shows how crazy you have to be for your ideas to make sense.

 

First, one would be stupid to fire directly at any tucked pin where being ever-so-slightly short means missing the green altogether. That seems obvious based on your description. But hey, maybe it's a rookie mistake on your part. That's fine. Everybody seems to learn strategy as they become better, more reliable swingers. Once GIR becomes important to you, you'll find yourself aiming away from flags like this.

 

A good golfer would shoot left of this "sucker pin" towards the center while _...maybe... possibly...if they needed to...and felt they could execute..._ try to work it towards the flag with a fade.

 

But to most everyone else, this scenario falls under the same as Hole #2. It should be treated as a middle-pin or a back-pin in which case CB miss wins.

 

I'm not going any farther. A CB wins in every dad gum scenario. You're screwing with me. This isn't real.

 

 

 

[Tree Levino]

> @revanant said:

 

>I don’t see a difference between a shot I hit to the fringe, chip to the pin, and putt for par vs a shot to the green and 2 putt for par.

 

 

I think the highlighted sentence really shows how far off you are on this topic. GIR = scoring. Most amateurs average two putts or more per hole so a shot to the green and two putting really matters. I've seen many of your posts on reddit encouraging other players that you haven't seen swing to go try blades. By all means everybody should try them but they are not helping the average bad golfer to play better. I put in over 20 hours a week into golf - most don't have that time. You're really fooling yourself if you don't think blades make any difference to scoring. If you like them that is a reason to play them but my guess is you aren't playing very difficult courses or you're playing forward tees where you aren't hitting 3-6 irons into greens over hazards very often.

[MelloYello]

> @balls_deep said:

> > @revanant said:

>

> >I don’t see a difference between a shot I hit to the fringe, chip to the pin, and putt for par vs a shot to the green and 2 putt for par.

>

> I think the highlighted sentence really shows how far off you are on this topic. GIR = scoring. Most amateurs average two putts or more per hole so a shot to the green and two putting really matters. I've seen many of your posts on reddit encouraging other players that you haven't seen swing to go try blades. By all means everybody should try them but they are not helping the average bad golfer to play better. I put in over 20 hours a week into golf - most don't have that time. You're really fooling yourself if you don't think blades make any difference to scoring. If you like them that is a reason to play them but my guess is you aren't playing very difficult courses or you're playing forward tees where you aren't hitting 3-6 irons into greens over hazards very often.

 

I have to agree.

 

As soon as things become hard, the challenge of a blade is quite obvious. It's harder to hit solid. It's harder to keep straight. It's harder to elevate. It's harder to maintain confidence.

 

I think a lot of the blade supporters we see (at least those above a 10-handicap) have a sort of inflated, false confidence that comes from hitting a number of short-irons on flat courses towards greens that aren't protected by a ton of trouble.

[MelloYello]

> @revanant said:

> My general takeaway so far is that the blades aren’t hurting me, and I should focus my money on lessons and my time on practice to improve my putting, driving and short game.

 

Every shot counts and has an associated probability of being holed in a given number of strokes. So blades are surely hurting you on some level (just as they would me).

 

But I 100% agree with you that bad driving and bad putting will impact your scores more directly.

 

Honestly, you're probably not good enough yet to notice the difference between a blade and a CB. It's a fine line. Driving and putting are both more dangerous when it comes to making "big" mistakes that blow up your scorecard.

 

At your level, any serviceable iron shot that gets you up around the green is a win. I'd be much more concerned with losing tee shots and 3-putting.

[dpb5031]

All this talk about the severity and potential strokes lost from different types of mis-hits. It's pretty much fact that slight mis-hits with a CB will stay in flight longer and travel farther in the air than a similarly struck (missed) shot with an MB blade. I'm a low HC player. There's one miss that is of greatest concern to me; the forced carry over water or some other penalty area. That particular miss will most certainly lead to a dropped shot, or two. Catch it a groove and a half low with a blade and it's wet, same strike with a player's CB like my i200s and it carries the trouble.

 

For this reason alone I think CBs are the prudent option on the course for those desiring to shoot the lowest scores possible, even though I've posted that incorporating some PRACTICE with an MB blade is beneficial to my game.

[MelloYello]

> @dpb5031 said:

> All this talk about the severity and potential strokes lost from different types of mis-hits. It's pretty much fact that slight mis-hits with a CB will stay in flight longer and travel farther in the air than a similarly struck (missed) shot with an MB blade. I'm a low HC player. There's one miss that is of greatest concern to me; the forced carry over water or some other penalty area. That particular miss will most certainly lead to a dropped shot, or two. Catch it a groove and a half low with a blade and it's wet, same strike with a player's CB like my i200s and it carries the trouble.

>

> For this reason alone I think CBs are the prudent option on the course for those desiring to shoot the lowest scores possible, even though I've posted that incorporating some PRACTICE with an MB blade is beneficial to my game.

 

You don't even have to isolate forced carries over penalty areas, which are the worst possible scenario. Green-side bunkers are forced carries. The rough between us and the hole is a forced carry.

 

Nobody prefers to see their ball consistently land short of the intended distance. It's called the _intended_ distance for a reason.

[dpb5031]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > All this talk about the severity and potential strokes lost from different types of mis-hits. It's pretty much fact that slight mis-hits with a CB will stay in flight longer and travel farther in the air than a similarly struck (missed) shot with an MB blade. I'm a low HC player. There's one miss that is of greatest concern to me; the forced carry over water or some other penalty area. That particular miss will most certainly lead to a dropped shot, or two. Catch it a groove and a half low with a blade and it's wet, same strike with a player's CB like my i200s and it carries the trouble.

> >

> > For this reason alone I think CBs are the prudent option on the course for those desiring to shoot the lowest scores possible, even though I've posted that incorporating some PRACTICE with an MB blade is beneficial to my game.

>

> You don't even have to isolate forced carries over penalty areas, which are the worst possible scenario. Green-side bunkers are forced carries. The rough between us and the hole is a forced carry.

>

> Nobody prefers to see their ball consistently land short of the intended distance. It's called the _intended_ distance for a reason.

 

Agreed, but as a (relatively) skilled low HC player the forced carry scenario I described is the most critical. If I were of the belief that the benefits of playing MB blades on the course (trajectory control, workability, precision, etc.) I may be willing to deal with the trade-off of accepting the occasional bunker shot or play out of the rough after coming up short on a slight mis-hit. The forced carry over water or other penalty area is a deal breaker though!

 

And BTW, I play a lot of golf, and with players of widely varying skill levels. A "long" miss is by far and away the rarest form of mis-hit out on the course unless someone bones a wedge...lol! Edit: to add that if ya bone one it generally doesn't matter if it's with a blade or a shovel!

[lenman73]

I guess I look at the distance thing differently than accuracy. I do not belong to a club. So I get to freelance on the weekend and play all over. Me and my friends try to do about 20 courses a season. Around me in southwest michigan, a lot of the course in my 20 rotation do not have a lot of trouble short. About 15 holes out of 360 off the top of my head do. That leaves more than 90 percent that don't even if I forgot a couple. Add to that the majority of greens around me are raised. Many are longer than they are wide. So if you do land pin high, but right or left, now you are short sided to an elevated green. Short and center would be my preferred miss. Now saying that, I am not trying to come up short on purpose.

 

But of the 15 holes with danger short, more than half are par 3s. Some with water short and long. Some have drop offs and woods long. Some have roads and O.B. long so center of the green is a must. But as I said. I am not trying to be short on purpose, it just happens to be less penal over 90 percent of the time where I play. Bunkering is not as big an issue around here where I'm sure others experience the opposite. I have played an other states and other course where I can see that my experience up here does not set the standard nor will it be typical for everyone. Just don't want to generalize that longer is always better, regardless of what club you are hitting.

[bodhi555]

> @cliffhanger said:

> > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @chisag said:

> > > > ... Bigg Ern, I played golf with a mid index player today (15) that probably swung his driver around 80 mph, hit a slice and used a 12* closed face driver a flex light weight shaft and of course rarely hit the center but when he did it was like butter. I told him he needed to get a Nike Covert Tour 9* driver with a HZRDUS Black x flex shaft and practice with it. It works for MB users so I figured it should work for him.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Yea he’ll focus more and automatically be better. It’s like people just walk up and nonchalantly take a random whack at the ball unless they’re using an MB.

> >

> > Next time you see him tell him to cut the power steering cables to his car. You become an awesome driver because regular driving is so hard.

>

> Wouldn't changing the power steering to rack and pinion be a better analogy to increase the stiffness of the steering so more force is required to turn the steering wheel and it would in turn be harder? Cutting the lines would just make it dangerous right. To take it a step further i would stiffen all suspension components, put in rigid racing bucket seats with a 5 point harness and remove any other comfort items like a radio, AC, etc.

 

For me it would be more a case of - would you rather have a finely balanced yet harder to drive mid-engined supercar like an original NSX, or a 4wd Turbo monster that's easier to extract the performance out of, like a GT-R? The supercar is potentially faster, yet 9 out of 10 people would probably post a better time with the GT-R.

 

I've always been more of an NSX type of guy, so playing blades seems the natural choice :smiley:

[dpb5031]

> @lenman73 said:

> I guess I look at the distance thing differently than accuracy. I do not belong to a club. So I get to freelance on the weekend and play all over. Me and my friends try to do about 20 courses a season. Around me in southwest michigan, a lot of the course in my 20 rotation do not have a lot of trouble short. About 15 holes out of 360 off the top of my head do. That leaves more than 90 percent that don't even if I forgot a couple. Add to that the majority of greens around me are raised. Many are longer than they are wide. So if you do land pin high, but right or left, now you are short sided to an elevated green. Short and center would be my preferred miss. Now saying that, I am not trying to come up short on purpose.

>

> But of the 15 holes with danger short, more than half are par 3s. Some with water short and long. Some have drop offs and woods long. Some have roads and O.B. long so center of the green is a must. But as I said. I am not trying to be short on purpose, it just happens to be less penal over 90 percent of the time where I play. Bunkering is not as big an issue around here where I'm sure others experience the opposite. I have played an other states and other course where I can see that my experience up here does not set the standard nor will it be typical for everyone. Just don't want to generalize that longer is always better, regardless of what club you are hitting.

 

Of course longer isn't always better, but generally speaking there's only a few reasons anyone ever hits it long: wrong club, flier lie, or a skull, none of which have anything to do with the type of club (CB v. MB blade) that you may happen to be using. Recreational players miss short the vast majority of the time, and the type of club you use most definitely will have an influence on "how" short.

[Golf4lifer]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @lenman73 said:

> > I guess I look at the distance thing differently than accuracy. I do not belong to a club. So I get to freelance on the weekend and play all over. Me and my friends try to do about 20 courses a season. Around me in southwest michigan, a lot of the course in my 20 rotation do not have a lot of trouble short. About 15 holes out of 360 off the top of my head do. That leaves more than 90 percent that don't even if I forgot a couple. Add to that the majority of greens around me are raised. Many are longer than they are wide. So if you do land pin high, but right or left, now you are short sided to an elevated green. Short and center would be my preferred miss. Now saying that, I am not trying to come up short on purpose.

> >

> > But of the 15 holes with danger short, more than half are par 3s. Some with water short and long. Some have drop offs and woods long. Some have roads and O.B. long so center of the green is a must. But as I said. I am not trying to be short on purpose, it just happens to be less penal over 90 percent of the time where I play. Bunkering is not as big an issue around here where I'm sure others experience the opposite. I have played an other states and other course where I can see that my experience up here does not set the standard nor will it be typical for everyone. Just don't want to generalize that longer is always better, regardless of what club you are hitting.

>

> Of course longer isn't always better, but generally speaking there's only a few reasons anyone ever hits it long: wrong club, flier lie, or a skull, none of which have anything to do with the type of club (CB v. MB blade) that you may happen to be using. Recreational players miss short the vast majority of the time, and the type of club you use most definitely will have an influence on "how" short.

 

Is it the type of club of the loft of the club that plays the role in how short the shot will end up? If my blade 7 iron is 34*, but my CB 7 Iron is 30* that will make a huge difference in where the miss hit will end up. Loft for loft is there that big of a difference in short miss between a blade vs CB?

[dpb5031]

> @Golf4lifer said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @lenman73 said:

> > > I guess I look at the distance thing differently than accuracy. I do not belong to a club. So I get to freelance on the weekend and play all over. Me and my friends try to do about 20 courses a season. Around me in southwest michigan, a lot of the course in my 20 rotation do not have a lot of trouble short. About 15 holes out of 360 off the top of my head do. That leaves more than 90 percent that don't even if I forgot a couple. Add to that the majority of greens around me are raised. Many are longer than they are wide. So if you do land pin high, but right or left, now you are short sided to an elevated green. Short and center would be my preferred miss. Now saying that, I am not trying to come up short on purpose.

> > >

> > > But of the 15 holes with danger short, more than half are par 3s. Some with water short and long. Some have drop offs and woods long. Some have roads and O.B. long so center of the green is a must. But as I said. I am not trying to be short on purpose, it just happens to be less penal over 90 percent of the time where I play. Bunkering is not as big an issue around here where I'm sure others experience the opposite. I have played an other states and other course where I can see that my experience up here does not set the standard nor will it be typical for everyone. Just don't want to generalize that longer is always better, regardless of what club you are hitting.

> >

> > Of course longer isn't always better, but generally speaking there's only a few reasons anyone ever hits it long: wrong club, flier lie, or a skull, none of which have anything to do with the type of club (CB v. MB blade) that you may happen to be using. Recreational players miss short the vast majority of the time, and the type of club you use most definitely will have an influence on "how" short.

>

> Is it the type of club of the loft of the club that plays the role in how short the shot will end up? If my blade 7 iron is 34*, but my CB 7 Iron is 30* that will make a huge difference in where the miss hit will end up. Loft for loft is there that big of a difference in short miss between a blade vs CB?

 

Every player should know how far each club in his bag will travel, whether blade or CB. Same loft for loft, MB blades will not carry as far on less than perfect strikes compared to most CBs.

[pinestreetgolf]

> @Golf4lifer said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @lenman73 said:

> > > I guess I look at the distance thing differently than accuracy. I do not belong to a club. So I get to freelance on the weekend and play all over. Me and my friends try to do about 20 courses a season. Around me in southwest michigan, a lot of the course in my 20 rotation do not have a lot of trouble short. About 15 holes out of 360 off the top of my head do. That leaves more than 90 percent that don't even if I forgot a couple. Add to that the majority of greens around me are raised. Many are longer than they are wide. So if you do land pin high, but right or left, now you are short sided to an elevated green. Short and center would be my preferred miss. Now saying that, I am not trying to come up short on purpose.

> > >

> > > But of the 15 holes with danger short, more than half are par 3s. Some with water short and long. Some have drop offs and woods long. Some have roads and O.B. long so center of the green is a must. But as I said. I am not trying to be short on purpose, it just happens to be less penal over 90 percent of the time where I play. Bunkering is not as big an issue around here where I'm sure others experience the opposite. I have played an other states and other course where I can see that my experience up here does not set the standard nor will it be typical for everyone. Just don't want to generalize that longer is always better, regardless of what club you are hitting.

> >

> > Of course longer isn't always better, but generally speaking there's only a few reasons anyone ever hits it long: wrong club, flier lie, or a skull, none of which have anything to do with the type of club (CB v. MB blade) that you may happen to be using. Recreational players miss short the vast majority of the time, and the type of club you use most definitely will have an influence on "how" short.

>

> Is it the type of club of the loft of the club that plays the role in how short the shot will end up? If my blade 7 iron is 34*, but my CB 7 Iron is 30* that will make a huge difference in where the miss hit will end up. Loft for loft is there that big of a difference in short miss between a blade vs CB?

 

Yes and no, because it is exponential. If you miss very small, no. If you miss really bad - like you hit way out on the toe - the difference can be very large. Our minds work linearly (this club is more forgiving than that club) but golf clubs work exponentially (one club is identical a millimeter out of the sweet spot but slightly worse five millimeters off and a whole lot worse an inch off). The discussion is saying things like "a miss with a blade isn't that different than a miss with a CB" but that is misleading, because its treating all "misses" the same when they are not. If you don't miss by much you'll see very little distance loss. If you miss by a lot you'll see a ton of distance loss one versus the other. In the dead center they are both identical (no energy lost to vibration) and at the extreme edge they are very different (the blade loses much more energy to twist and vibration due to lack of mass). In between, shades of grey, but the blades get exponentially bad as you move from the middle to the edge. That is why some of question the wisdom of high handicaps using them - they have the potential for the worst misses, which are punished exponentially more than slight misses. Again, though, the caveat that some like their looks and some hit them well, so it is by no means a rule. I think its a pretty good guideline, though, that the worse you are at hitting the ball in the middle the more perimeter weighting helps you.

[cliffhanger]

> @bodhi555 said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @chisag said:

> > > > > ... Bigg Ern, I played golf with a mid index player today (15) that probably swung his driver around 80 mph, hit a slice and used a 12* closed face driver a flex light weight shaft and of course rarely hit the center but when he did it was like butter. I told him he needed to get a Nike Covert Tour 9* driver with a HZRDUS Black x flex shaft and practice with it. It works for MB users so I figured it should work for him.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yea he’ll focus more and automatically be better. It’s like people just walk up and nonchalantly take a random whack at the ball unless they’re using an MB.

> > >

> > > Next time you see him tell him to cut the power steering cables to his car. You become an awesome driver because regular driving is so hard.

> >

> > Wouldn't changing the power steering to rack and pinion be a better analogy to increase the stiffness of the steering so more force is required to turn the steering wheel and it would in turn be harder? Cutting the lines would just make it dangerous right. To take it a step further i would stiffen all suspension components, put in rigid racing bucket seats with a 5 point harness and remove any other comfort items like a radio, AC, etc.

>

> For me it would be more a case of - would you rather have a finely balanced yet harder to drive mid-engined supercar like an original NSX, or a 4wd Turbo monster that's easier to extract the performance out of, like a GT-R? The supercar is potentially faster, yet 9 out of 10 people would probably post a better time with the GT-R.

>

> I've always been more of an NSX type of guy, so playing blades seems the natural choice :smiley:

The outcome would definitely depend on if it is a straight line quarter mile or a street track race where braking, turning, and racing line all come into play. The unforgiving NSX definitely is comparable to a blade iron though.

I have always been an American sports car fan... Corvette, Shelby Mustang, and most recently the Hellcat or Demon Challenger. I am a sucker for the GT-R though, and maybe the M3 BMW coupe.

But the NSX has to be the most rigid, unforgiving and uncomfortable car I have ever driven and rode in as a passenger. But that’s just my opinion.

It’s also my opinion that if you can find the middle of the face on one club, with decent motor skills you should be able to find the center on any club regardless of its size. Unless of course you can’t find the center on the original club, then you most likely won’t find the center on any club.

 

 

[pinestreetgolf]

> It’s also my opinion that if you can find the middle of the face on one club, with decent motor skills you should be able to find the center on any club regardless of its size. Unless of course you can’t find the center on the original club, then you most likely find the center on any club.

 

Eh, pressure does strange things to people. I've found the progression goes like this usually. Guy takes up golf and gets hand-me-downs or SGI clubs. He gets addicted like we all have. He at some point trades them for blades. If he starts playing under pressure he goes to players CBs when he realizes how common it is to slightly mishit it when nervous and if he doesn't play events he stays with blades. Please note this is not "tournament players don't play blades", just that I've noticed people move back toward forgiveness when they play under a lot of pressure.

 

If I never had to play under pressure I'd play Callaway Razr X blades. Purest strike of all time. The problem is the Indian under pressure.

 

You see blades in the bags at elite am events (state amateurs, mid-ams, USGA qualifiers, etc...) but they are relatively rare. You see a massive amount of players CBs and combo sets. When you're coming down the last nine leaking oil and just trying to top 4 seeing a bit of perimeter weight does wonders. I've hit the ball in some *really* funky places on the face when the butterflies are churning.

 

 

[dpb5031]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @lenman73 said:

> > > > I guess I look at the distance thing differently than accuracy. I do not belong to a club. So I get to freelance on the weekend and play all over. Me and my friends try to do about 20 courses a season. Around me in southwest michigan, a lot of the course in my 20 rotation do not have a lot of trouble short. About 15 holes out of 360 off the top of my head do. That leaves more than 90 percent that don't even if I forgot a couple. Add to that the majority of greens around me are raised. Many are longer than they are wide. So if you do land pin high, but right or left, now you are short sided to an elevated green. Short and center would be my preferred miss. Now saying that, I am not trying to come up short on purpose.

> > > >

> > > > But of the 15 holes with danger short, more than half are par 3s. Some with water short and long. Some have drop offs and woods long. Some have roads and O.B. long so center of the green is a must. But as I said. I am not trying to be short on purpose, it just happens to be less penal over 90 percent of the time where I play. Bunkering is not as big an issue around here where I'm sure others experience the opposite. I have played an other states and other course where I can see that my experience up here does not set the standard nor will it be typical for everyone. Just don't want to generalize that longer is always better, regardless of what club you are hitting.

> > >

> > > Of course longer isn't always better, but generally speaking there's only a few reasons anyone ever hits it long: wrong club, flier lie, or a skull, none of which have anything to do with the type of club (CB v. MB blade) that you may happen to be using. Recreational players miss short the vast majority of the time, and the type of club you use most definitely will have an influence on "how" short.

> >

> > Is it the type of club of the loft of the club that plays the role in how short the shot will end up? If my blade 7 iron is 34*, but my CB 7 Iron is 30* that will make a huge difference in where the miss hit will end up. Loft for loft is there that big of a difference in short miss between a blade vs CB?

>

> Yes and no, because it is exponential. If you miss very small, no. If you miss really bad - like you hit way out on the toe - the difference can be very large. Our minds work linearly (this club is more forgiving than that club) but golf clubs work exponentially (one club is identical a millimeter out of the sweet spot but slightly worse five millimeters off and a whole lot worse an inch off). The discussion is saying things like "a miss with a blade isn't that different than a miss with a CB" but that is misleading, because its treating all "misses" the same when they are not. If you don't miss by much you'll see very little distance loss. If you miss by a lot you'll see a ton of distance loss one versus the other. In the dead center they are both identical (no energy lost to vibration) and at the extreme edge they are very different (the blade loses much more energy to twist and vibration due to lack of mass). In between, shades of grey, but the blades get exponentially bad as you move from the middle to the edge. That is why some of question the wisdom of high handicaps using them - they have the potential for the worst misses, which are punished exponentially more than slight misses. Again, though, the caveat that some like their looks and some hit them well, so it is by no means a rule. I think its a pretty good guideline, though, that the worse you are at hitting the ball in the middle the more perimeter weighting helps you.

 

Not sure how you define a strike that you didn't "miss by much?" For me, a strike that's a groove low and several millimeters off center is not a huge miss. This type of strike with an MB blade will generally elevate less and drop out of the sky sooner than the same exact strike with my i200s. In on the course this can be the difference between clearing water or another penalty area, or not. Too much of a price to pay in a tournament, a money match, or any other time where every stroke matters. I'm usually between 0-2 handicap, I love blades and think they do have some advantages, like flighting or shaping shots and extricating the ball from thick rough due to less surface area. I also typically dont have massive mis-hits. Still, I play my i200s because to me, scoring is the priority when I play.

[cliffhanger]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > It’s also my opinion that if you can find the middle of the face on one club, with decent motor skills you should be able to find the center on any club regardless of its size. Unless of course you can’t find the center on the original club, then you most likely find the center on any club.

>

> Eh, pressure does strange things to people. I've found the progression goes like this usually. Guy takes up golf and gets hand-me-downs or SGI clubs. He gets addicted like we all have. He at some point trades them for blades. If he starts playing under pressure he goes to players CBs when he realizes how common it is to slightly mishit it when nervous and if he doesn't play events he stays with blades. Please note this is not "tournament players don't play blades", just that I've noticed people move back toward forgiveness when they play under a lot of pressure.

>

> If I never had to play under pressure I'd play Callaway Razr X blades. Purest strike of all time. The problem is the Indian under pressure.

>

> You see blades in the bags at elite am events (state amateurs, mid-ams, USGA qualifiers, etc...) but they are relatively rare. You see a massive amount of players CBs and combo sets. When you're coming down the last nine leaking oil and just trying to top 4 seeing a bit of perimeter weight does wonders. I've hit the ball in some *really* funky places on the face when the butterflies are churning.

>

>

 

It definitely comes down to how one handles pressure. It applies to all clubs and not just the irons though. When nerves set in it becomes very difficult to even manage a 5 foot put.

The first tee at Pebble was one of those instances where I amost s*** myself with that nervous sensation... There was around 60 or so people standing around and then knowing that there could be people watching on the live cam almost made me throw up.

It’s also funny that most people don’t feel much stress when at the range regardless of the outcome of their shots and yet make that walk to the first tee and the stomach gets all tied up in knots.

At the end of the day I am a flow player, whatever I have in the bag I just flow with it. I have played all types and sizes of clubs over my 24 years of playing and i can say with most honesty that I have at times succeeded with them all and I have failed with them all. Knowing why you failed or succeeded is very important to understand if and when you are in over your head.

I believe all success stories posted in this thread, I just think that some people have a hard time explaining themselves and some maybe don’t understand why they are in the position they are in.

Still... it’s my strong belief based on personal experience that Blades are just not that hard to hit successfully as some indicate.

[atj5206]

I'm a solid mid-to-high single digit guy having played 20+ years. Last year, I tried Cobra mb/cb combo in a hitting bay, had tighter dispersion than my AP2s so I picked up the set. My confidence and game went down from there to the point where I sold them 4 months later.

I picked up some Cobra ForgedTec's, and I can still work it both ways and they are so much more forgiving. The black finish makes the heads look less gargantuan too. Love em.

[pinestreetgolf]

> Not sure how you define a strike that you didn't "miss by much?" For me, a strike that's a groove low and several millimeters off center is not a huge miss.

 

Right, that's my point. This thread contains the word "mistake" as if its a universal word like "mile" where we all agree what it means and what, exactly, it is when that isn't the case. You're mistake a 15 caps mistake and 2016 Justin Rose's mistake are not the same. So, when we say "mistake" in this thread we are not all speaking the same language. Our brains love doing this (its either a mistake or its not) but the reality is that its a huge spectrum and blades really hurt at the edges, for the most part.

 

[pinestreetgolf]

> it’s my strong belief based on personal experience that Blades are just not that hard to hit successfully as some indicate.

Its just not that simple. If your "miss" is being way too in-to-out, a blade won't hurt you much. If your "miss" is a spin-out with your left hip and hitting the toe of the club you could lose 25 yards. Its just too player dependent to come to any meaningful conclusion. There are 25 caps who have a path miss and can hit the middle of a blade all day (and hook it off the planet). There are scratch golfers who are great drivers who have a toe miss and want Ping i Es for the tons of extra weight outside.

 

Its not so much about whether or not you miss but how you miss.

 

 

[Tree Levino]

> @atj5206 said:

> I'm a solid mid-to-high single digit guy having played 20+ years. Last year, I tried Cobra mb/cb combo in a hitting bay, had tighter dispersion than my AP2s so I picked up the set. My confidence and game went down from there to the point where I sold them 4 months later.

> I picked up some Cobra ForgedTec's, and I can still work it both ways and they are so much more forgiving. The black finish makes the heads look less gargantuan too. Love em.

 

> @pinestreetgolf said:

hen you're coming down the last nine leaking oil and just trying to top 4 seeing a bit of perimeter weight does wonders. I've hit the ball in some *really* funky places on the face when the butterflies are churning.

>

 

A form of cavity will save your a** when the pressure is on. If revenant is going around an easy course playing from the whites and enjoys the look of blades in his bag all power to him. I do not, however, think that if push came to shove and the 20 plus cap is playing in their club C or a game for decent money they'd be singing the praises of blades. Pin high is where you need to be - direction is on the user. A CB will keep you pin high more than the MB and that isn't really arguable IMO. I will probably make the move to a combo set of some sort or to Titleist CBs as the forgiveness is so comparable to the AP2 but I don't see a full set of blades down to 3i in my near future because the benefits just are not there as some say there are in this thread. I really wish that people that don't have much knowledge of the game and can't even break 90 would stop encouraging other bad players to play blades in hopes it's going to magically make them concentrate on the ball - they should be doing that anyways. Buddy shooting 55 on 9 holes playing MP4s just makes me shake my head but hey - they look cool. I'm trying to shoot par for the first time and despite the fact that I shape shots a ton and iron play is the strongest part of my game I still question whether blades are a good idea. Tgoodspe the +3 from the other thread just moved to Apex Pro because he thinks MBs are hurting his scores. If you're never hitting a green anyways do what you want but I just don't get why you wouldn't take a bit of help. IMO the CB for instance feels just as good as the MB without the downsides.