My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

[cliffhanger]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > it’s my strong belief based on personal experience that Blades are just not that hard to hit successfully as some indicate.

> Its just not that simple. If your "miss" is being way too in-to-out, a blade won't hurt you much. If your "miss" is a spin-out with your left hip and hitting the toe of the club you could lose 25 yards. Its just too player dependent to come to any meaningful conclusion. There are 25 caps who have a path miss and can hit the middle of a blade all day (and hook it off the planet). There are scratch golfers who are great drivers who have a toe miss and want Ping i Es for the tons of extra weight outside.

>

> Its not so much about whether or not you miss but how you miss.

>

>

 

I did say “based on personal experience” so I wasn’t referencing anyone else when drawing that conclusion.

[mahonie]

Just throw this in here from an old article on here when Sean Toulon was at TM:

‘So why would a tour player choose to play a shorter-flying iron with the sweet spot the size of a pea when he or she could have a longer-flying iron with a sweet spot the size of a quarter? According to Toulon, tour players like blade irons despite their small sweet spots because they’re “slow everywhere.” So even though one-piece forged irons don’t fly as far as multi-material irons, they tend to fly around the same distance on center hits as on slight mis-hits. For better players who make contact near the sweet spot nearly every time, the improved distance control means more birdie chances.’

[Pepperturbo]

Whether your touch is similar to Tiger Woods or not, last Sunday's baby fades landing the ball to the left of the pin and spinning the ball right closer to the pin is WHY Tiger still plays blades and other tour players chose them as well.

 

Note Wilson, Srixon, and Ping, as well as Callaway and Cobra, have introduced some beautiful contemporary designed compact blades, suggesting there's a growing market. There are more tour players and better amateurs playing blades than talked about on this and other discussion boards. Should they be the reason to play blades, no? Play what you like and meets your game plan, but more importantly, unless you're asked, don't knock what others chose even if you don't like their reasoning. It's their right and their choice like your's both deserve respect.

 

Since I have 716CB's and MB blades, I can say the difference between a baby fade or draw with a blade and with a CB is fractional, still, the difference exists for those people like me with "attention to detail", touch, and time for practice.

[Golf4lifer]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @lenman73 said:

> > > > I guess I look at the distance thing differently than accuracy. I do not belong to a club. So I get to freelance on the weekend and play all over. Me and my friends try to do about 20 courses a season. Around me in southwest michigan, a lot of the course in my 20 rotation do not have a lot of trouble short. About 15 holes out of 360 off the top of my head do. That leaves more than 90 percent that don't even if I forgot a couple. Add to that the majority of greens around me are raised. Many are longer than they are wide. So if you do land pin high, but right or left, now you are short sided to an elevated green. Short and center would be my preferred miss. Now saying that, I am not trying to come up short on purpose.

> > > >

> > > > But of the 15 holes with danger short, more than half are par 3s. Some with water short and long. Some have drop offs and woods long. Some have roads and O.B. long so center of the green is a must. But as I said. I am not trying to be short on purpose, it just happens to be less penal over 90 percent of the time where I play. Bunkering is not as big an issue around here where I'm sure others experience the opposite. I have played an other states and other course where I can see that my experience up here does not set the standard nor will it be typical for everyone. Just don't want to generalize that longer is always better, regardless of what club you are hitting.

> > >

> > > Of course longer isn't always better, but generally speaking there's only a few reasons anyone ever hits it long: wrong club, flier lie, or a skull, none of which have anything to do with the type of club (CB v. MB blade) that you may happen to be using. Recreational players miss short the vast majority of the time, and the type of club you use most definitely will have an influence on "how" short.

> >

> > Is it the type of club of the loft of the club that plays the role in how short the shot will end up? If my blade 7 iron is 34*, but my CB 7 Iron is 30* that will make a huge difference in where the miss hit will end up. Loft for loft is there that big of a difference in short miss between a blade vs CB?

>

> Every player should know how far each club in his bag will travel, whether blade or CB. Same loft for loft, MB blades will not carry as far on less than perfect strikes compared to most CBs.

 

Do you know how far your miss hits travel?

[Tree Levino]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> Whether your touch is similar to Tiger Woods or not, last Sunday's baby fades landing the ball to the left of the pin and spinning the ball right closer to the pin is WHY Tiger still plays blades and other tour players chose them as well.

>

> Note Wilson, Srixon, and Ping, as well as Callaway and Cobra, have introduced some beautiful contemporary designed compact blades, suggesting there's a growing market. There are more tour players and better amateurs playing blades than talked about on this and other discussion boards. Should they be the reason to play blades, no? Play what you like and meets your game plan, but more importantly, unless you're asked, don't knock what others chose even if you don't like their reasoning. It's their right and their choice like your's both deserve respect.

>

> Since I have 716CB's and MB blades, I can say the difference between a baby fade or draw with a blade and with a CB is fractional, still, the difference exists for those people like me with "attention to detail", touch, and time for practice.

 

I totally agree people can play whatever they want. I think the process of going on reddit and commenting on tons of threads trying to convince strangers that have never seen your swing that they too should play blades at high handicaps is not the best thing to do though. If he wants to have blades in his bag and quietly go about shooting 100 I take no issue with that. It's kind of ignorant to be new to the game and singing the praises of something you can't even properly utilize though.

 

To your point about the CB vs MB I don't think it would even be measurable. I can bend a shot around a tree with a 30 yard hook or cut with an AP2 no issues. The spin is the important part - if it's a low spin GI head then you can't impart as much curve on the ball. If it's a head like the AP2 they are just as workable as the MB for me.

 

Yes pros do mishit it but if you listened to the Masters last weekend with your volume up nearly every strike is pure without a trace of heaviness. If you're striking centre nearly every single time

[dpb5031]

> @Golf4lifer said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > @lenman73 said:

> > > > > I guess I look at the distance thing differently than accuracy. I do not belong to a club. So I get to freelance on the weekend and play all over. Me and my friends try to do about 20 courses a season. Around me in southwest michigan, a lot of the course in my 20 rotation do not have a lot of trouble short. About 15 holes out of 360 off the top of my head do. That leaves more than 90 percent that don't even if I forgot a couple. Add to that the majority of greens around me are raised. Many are longer than they are wide. So if you do land pin high, but right or left, now you are short sided to an elevated green. Short and center would be my preferred miss. Now saying that, I am not trying to come up short on purpose.

> > > > >

> > > > > But of the 15 holes with danger short, more than half are par 3s. Some with water short and long. Some have drop offs and woods long. Some have roads and O.B. long so center of the green is a must. But as I said. I am not trying to be short on purpose, it just happens to be less penal over 90 percent of the time where I play. Bunkering is not as big an issue around here where I'm sure others experience the opposite. I have played an other states and other course where I can see that my experience up here does not set the standard nor will it be typical for everyone. Just don't want to generalize that longer is always better, regardless of what club you are hitting.

> > > >

> > > > Of course longer isn't always better, but generally speaking there's only a few reasons anyone ever hits it long: wrong club, flier lie, or a skull, none of which have anything to do with the type of club (CB v. MB blade) that you may happen to be using. Recreational players miss short the vast majority of the time, and the type of club you use most definitely will have an influence on "how" short.

> > >

> > > Is it the type of club of the loft of the club that plays the role in how short the shot will end up? If my blade 7 iron is 34*, but my CB 7 Iron is 30* that will make a huge difference in where the miss hit will end up. Loft for loft is there that big of a difference in short miss between a blade vs CB?

> >

> > Every player should know how far each club in his bag will travel, whether blade or CB. Same loft for loft, MB blades will not carry as far on less than perfect strikes compared to most CBs.

>

> Do you know how far your miss hits travel?

 

I wasnt talking about knowing the distance of mis-hits...lol! I was speaking of stock distances as I was responding to a suggestion (with regard to "long" misses) that it may be due to the stronger lofts of GI irons versus blades.

[pinestreetgolf]

> Since I have 716CB's and MB blades, I can say the difference between a baby fade or draw with a blade and with a CB is fractional, still, the difference exists for those people like me with "attention to detail", touch, and time for practice.

 

Right. It exists for people like you. Which is about 1% of golfers. People without touch and time for practice probably shouldn't game them. The discussion always devolves to this point, where some of us are talking about an abstract 15 cap who is a poor ball striker and some of us are talking about 15 caps that have the "feel" to game and differentiate blades BTSGHTB*.

 

One of those is more common than the other. So, you end up at the same place every time:

 

High caps probably shouldn't game blades, but once in a while there exists a high cap that should. That isn't the same as "it doesn't matter" and its also not the same as "everyone should play CBs".

 

Note: "probably" is not a synonym for "definitely"

 

*But their short game holds them back.

[BiggErn]

> @mahonie said:

> Just throw this in here from an old article on here when Sean Toulon was at TM:

> ‘So why would a tour player choose to play a shorter-flying iron with the sweet spot the size of a pea when he or she could have a longer-flying iron with a sweet spot the size of a quarter? According to Toulon, tour players like blade irons despite their small sweet spots because they’re “slow everywhere.” So even though one-piece forged irons don’t fly as far as multi-material irons, they tend to fly around the same distance on center hits as on slight mis-hits. For better players who make contact near the sweet spot nearly every time, the improved distance control means more birdie chances.’

 

Lol that’s complete bs. For one most don’t use blades and it’s not really close. Two, those that do play blades virtually never miss that pea size sweet spot. It must’ve been a putter article instead of irons.

[gbartko]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > Since I have 716CB's and MB blades, I can say the difference between a baby fade or draw with a blade and with a CB is fractional, still, the difference exists for those people like me with "attention to detail", touch, and time for practice.

>

> Right. It exists for people like you. Which is about 1% of golfers. People without touch and time for practice probably shouldn't game them. The discussion always devolves to this point, where some of us are talking about an abstract 15 cap who is a poor ball striker and some of us are talking about 15 caps that have the "feel" to game and differentiate blades BTSGHTB*.

>

> One of those is more common than the other. So, you end up at the same place every time:

>

> High caps probably shouldn't game blades, but once in a while there exists a high cap that should. That isn't the same as "it doesn't matter" and its also not the same as "everyone should play CBs".

>

> Note: "probably" is not a synonym for "definitely"

>

> *But their short game holds them back.

 

we've seen it argued here, both sides. but in the end, the bladeocracts always just have to get that last dig because they're superior and enlightened. a quote from the great movie "Kingpin" comes to mind:

"We do whatever you people do plus a half. That's how we survive."

 

blade users = woke

CB/GI/SGI = deplorable

[revanant]

> @balls_deep said:

> > @revanant said:

>

> >I don’t see a difference between a shot I hit to the fringe, chip to the pin, and putt for par vs a shot to the green and 2 putt for par.

>

>

> I think the highlighted sentence really shows how far off you are on this topic. GIR = scoring. Most amateurs average two putts or more per hole so a shot to the green and two putting really matters. I've seen many of your posts on reddit encouraging other players that you haven't seen swing to go try blades. By all means everybody should try them but they are not helping the average bad golfer to play better. I put in over 20 hours a week into golf - most don't have that time. You're really fooling yourself if you don't think blades make any difference to scoring. If you like them that is a reason to play them but my guess is you aren't playing very difficult courses or you're playing forward tees where you aren't hitting 3-6 irons into greens over hazards very often.

I think you missed the context of my statement. I’m not saying that a GIR is no better than a shot to the fringe. I was saying that, on the 9 holes I had played Sunday, I got up and down twice from the fringe, so I was able to mitigate the damage. In contrast, I had an awful 4 putt from 5 feet on the last hole. In other words, looking back, I don’t feel bad about missing the green for a close fringe that I made a par on. My putting game, however, needs more urgent attention.

 

Not that it matters, my home course typically has me playing a slope of 135, as I tend to just tee up with whatever random group I’m paired up with to keep pace of play and that’s the slope from the second tees ( I.e, not the tips, but not the easier tees). The course is also very windy and links style. It’s very punishing on inaccurate shots, which is why I care more about direction than distance. I definitely suffer a little from the hubris of my playing partners—when I’m alone, I tee up from slope 118.

 

P.s. I don’t get your point about the harm in suggesting people try a blade. My experience has been that it’s improved my practice and shot striking, and I’ve even seen those improvements carry over to the course. If a random golfer x tries a cheap used blade, either 1) it helps like them like I found it helped me, or 2) it doesn’t help, and they can laugh about the time they tried a blade and it stung like a mofo + they return it to globalgolf. If, however, they never bother to try it because they think the club is so far beyond their ability, they may lose out on a helpful training aid.

 

Edit: formatting.

[nsxguy]

> @revanant said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > > @revanant said:

> >

> > >I don’t see a difference between a shot I hit to the fringe, chip to the pin, and putt for par vs a shot to the green and 2 putt for par.

> >

> >

> > I think the highlighted sentence really shows how far off you are on this topic. GIR = scoring. Most amateurs average two putts or more per hole so a shot to the green and two putting really matters. I've seen many of your posts on reddit encouraging other players that you haven't seen swing to go try blades. By all means everybody should try them but they are not helping the average bad golfer to play better. I put in over 20 hours a week into golf - most don't have that time. You're really fooling yourself if you don't think blades make any difference to scoring. If you like them that is a reason to play them but my guess is you aren't playing very difficult courses or you're playing forward tees where you aren't hitting 3-6 irons into greens over hazards very often.

>

> I think you missed my point. I’m not saying a GIR is the same as a chip from a fringe. I’m saying that if I successfully scramble for a par from an easy chip, then I’m not going to count that hole against my iron play.

>

 

I think you're missing other people's point. With a CB you might be ON the green with an easy 2-putt. with the blade you were 5 yards short of the green and now chipping to a pin 5 yards ON to the green. How many times do you get that chip up and down vs. how many times would you 2-putt from ON the green (or even on the fringe) ?

 

And for whoever was talking about the blade being (only) "5 yards shorter",,,,, if only. The further one hits the ball away from the sweet spot the worse that gap is going to be and the higher the handicapper the more often and worse the miss. But even at only 5 yards,,,,,,,,,,, to a front pin, see above. To a middle pin or a back pin that's a 30 foot putt as opposed to a 15 foot putt.

 

Do you suppose a 27 handicapper has the same putting stats from 30 feet as 15 feet ? Or the same stats as the mid single digits guy ? The same chipping stats from 5 yards short of the green than the mid single digit guy ?

 

For a LOW handicapper that' 5+5 is a par ~ 80-90% of the time. For the 27 it's at least a bogey most of the time and when he chunks the chip shot or blades (pun intended) his chip to the back of the green it's at least a double bogey - all from a shot that could've been puttable from the fringe or even on the front edge of the green.

 

And if it's in a bunker instead of just the rough, or even fairway, how many times does the 27 even get it OUT of the bunker in a single shot,,,,,,,,, never mind getting it up and down ? Gets it out what, half the time ? And is still lucky to 2-putt when he does.

 

And how about dispersion ? It was pointed out earlier that the CB will go farther off line than the equivalent hit with a blade and that may take it OB or into water or,,,,,,, whatever. OK, fine.

 

So we know the blades are more workable, right ? So what happens when the high handicapper hits it solidly (what, 1 out of 5 ?) but with a terrible face angle to path ? The CB would forgive some of that terrible hooking or slicing action and keep it from flying way left or right of the intended target. The blade ? It's Goodbye Charlie Brown.

 

Anyway, it's nice to see the thread has evolved into at least a somewhat civil discourse. Good for us !!! {golf clap}

 

 

[texcrom]

> @revanant said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > > @revanant said:

> >

> > >I don’t see a difference between a shot I hit to the fringe, chip to the pin, and putt for par vs a shot to the green and 2 putt for par.

> >

> >

> > I think the highlighted sentence really shows how far off you are on this topic. GIR = scoring. Most amateurs average two putts or more per hole so a shot to the green and two putting really matters. I've seen many of your posts on reddit encouraging other players that you haven't seen swing to go try blades. By all means everybody should try them but they are not helping the average bad golfer to play better. I put in over 20 hours a week into golf - most don't have that time. You're really fooling yourself if you don't think blades make any difference to scoring. If you like them that is a reason to play them but my guess is you aren't playing very difficult courses or you're playing forward tees where you aren't hitting 3-6 irons into greens over hazards very often.

>

> I think you missed my point. I’m not saying a GIR is the same as a chip from a fringe. I’m saying that if I successfully scramble for a par from an easy chip, then I’m not going to count that hole against my iron play.

>

> In contrast, if I 3-putt, the extra putt is simply an extra stroke—there’s no opportunity to recover.

>

> I.e.

>

> > @balls_deep said:

> > > @revanant said:

> >

> > >I don’t see a difference between a shot I hit to the fringe, chip to the pin, and putt for par vs a shot to the green and 2 putt for par.

> >

> >

> > I think the highlighted sentence really shows how far off you are on this topic. GIR = scoring. Most amateurs average two putts or more per hole so a shot to the green and two putting really matters. I've seen many of your posts on reddit encouraging other players that you haven't seen swing to go try blades. By all means everybody should try them but they are not helping the average bad golfer to play better. I put in over 20 hours a week into golf - most don't have that time. You're really fooling yourself if you don't think blades make any difference to scoring. If you like them that is a reason to play them but my guess is you aren't playing very difficult courses or you're playing forward tees where you aren't hitting 3-6 irons into greens over hazards very often.

> I think you missed the context of my statement. I’m not saying that a GIR is no better than a shot to the fringe. I was saying that, on the 9 holes I had played Sunday, I got up and down twice from the fringe, so I was able to mitigate the damage. In contrast, I had an awful 4 putt from 5 feet on the last hole. In other words, looking back, I don’t feel bad about missing the green for a close fringe that I made a par on. My putting game, however, needs more urgent attention.

>

> Not that it matters, my home course typically has me playing a slope of 135, as I tend to just tee up with whatever random group I’m paired up with to keep pace of play and that’s the slope from the second tees ( I.e, not the tips, but not the easier tees). The course is also very windy and links style. It’s very punishing on inaccurate shots, which is why I care more about direction than distance. I definitely suffer a little from the hubris of my playing partners—when I’m alone, I tee up from slope 118.

>

> P.s. I don’t get your point about the harm in suggesting people try a blade. My experience has been that it’s improved my practice and shot striking, and I’ve even seen those improvements carry over to the course. If a random golfer x tries a cheap used blade, either 1) it helps like them like I found it helped me, or 2) it doesn’t help, and they can laugh about the time they tried a blade and it stung like a **** + they return it to globalgolf. If, however, they never bother to try it because they think the club is so far beyond their ability, they may lose out on a helpful training aid.

 

How is it you don’t recognize that your chance for a good score, be it a par or birdie, goes up significantly by hitting a green and having a putt for birdie and a potential tap in for par vs. having a chip / pitch for your shot and hoping you chip it in, or chip it close enough for a tap in for par?

 

You’ll become a better player not when you move to a more forgiving club, but when you actually start to understand the game and exhibit some common sense.

 

 

[revanant]

> @texcrom said:

> > @revanant said:

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > @revanant said:

> > >

> > > >I don’t see a difference between a shot I hit to the fringe, chip to the pin, and putt for par vs a shot to the green and 2 putt for par.

> > >

> > >

> > > I think the highlighted sentence really shows how far off you are on this topic. GIR = scoring. Most amateurs average two putts or more per hole so a shot to the green and two putting really matters. I've seen many of your posts on reddit encouraging other players that you haven't seen swing to go try blades. By all means everybody should try them but they are not helping the average bad golfer to play better. I put in over 20 hours a week into golf - most don't have that time. You're really fooling yourself if you don't think blades make any difference to scoring. If you like them that is a reason to play them but my guess is you aren't playing very difficult courses or you're playing forward tees where you aren't hitting 3-6 irons into greens over hazards very often.

> >

> > I think you missed my point. I’m not saying a GIR is the same as a chip from a fringe. I’m saying that if I successfully scramble for a par from an easy chip, then I’m not going to count that hole against my iron play.

> >

> > In contrast, if I 3-putt, the extra putt is simply an extra stroke—there’s no opportunity to recover.

> >

> > I.e.

> >

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > @revanant said:

> > >

> > > >I don’t see a difference between a shot I hit to the fringe, chip to the pin, and putt for par vs a shot to the green and 2 putt for par.

> > >

> > >

> > > I think the highlighted sentence really shows how far off you are on this topic. GIR = scoring. Most amateurs average two putts or more per hole so a shot to the green and two putting really matters. I've seen many of your posts on reddit encouraging other players that you haven't seen swing to go try blades. By all means everybody should try them but they are not helping the average bad golfer to play better. I put in over 20 hours a week into golf - most don't have that time. You're really fooling yourself if you don't think blades make any difference to scoring. If you like them that is a reason to play them but my guess is you aren't playing very difficult courses or you're playing forward tees where you aren't hitting 3-6 irons into greens over hazards very often.

> > I think you missed the context of my statement. I’m not saying that a GIR is no better than a shot to the fringe. I was saying that, on the 9 holes I had played Sunday, I got up and down twice from the fringe, so I was able to mitigate the damage. In contrast, I had an awful 4 putt from 5 feet on the last hole. In other words, looking back, I don’t feel bad about missing the green for a close fringe that I made a par on. My putting game, however, needs more urgent attention.

> >

> > Not that it matters, my home course typically has me playing a slope of 135, as I tend to just tee up with whatever random group I’m paired up with to keep pace of play and that’s the slope from the second tees ( I.e, not the tips, but not the easier tees). The course is also very windy and links style. It’s very punishing on inaccurate shots, which is why I care more about direction than distance. I definitely suffer a little from the hubris of my playing partners—when I’m alone, I tee up from slope 118.

> >

> > P.s. I don’t get your point about the harm in suggesting people try a blade. My experience has been that it’s improved my practice and shot striking, and I’ve even seen those improvements carry over to the course. If a random golfer x tries a cheap used blade, either 1) it helps like them like I found it helped me, or 2) it doesn’t help, and they can laugh about the time they tried a blade and it stung like a **** + they return it to globalgolf. If, however, they never bother to try it because they think the club is so far beyond their ability, they may lose out on a helpful training aid.

>

> How is it you don’t recognize that your chance for a good score, be it a par or birdie, goes up significantly by hitting a green and having a putt for birdie and a potential tap in for par vs. having a chip / pitch for your shot and hoping you chip it in, or chip it close enough for a tap in for par?

>

> You’ll become a better player not when you move to a more forgiving club, but when you actually start to understand the game and exhibit some common sense.

>

>

 

I’m not arguing with you. Statistically, hitting the green would have been better. I aimed for the green both times.

 

For context, here’s what happened. Hole#7, narrow par 4, hit a straight 3w shot from the tee. Get to my ball and it’s sitting in a narrow fairway divot, about halfway buried. I need 150-ish,for center green, which is near pin. I choose my 6 iron, which would get that distance on a good strike. After a little consideration, I swap to a five iron, deciding that I need a little help and don’t want to be short, as there’s water to the left and somewhat guarding the front. I aim right and hit my five iron with a neutral setup, which usually gives me a bit of a fade. I get my number right for distance, and I get my fade, but direction is a little stronger to right then intended, and I’m just off the green and I’m the fringe. I make a great chip and sink the 3 footer. Happily walk away with a par.

 

Hole #6, after a bad drive and decent rescue with my 5w, I find my ball on a hill sitting at a 30 degree incline. I’ve never hit a ball off such a steep incline before. I have 145 to the pin, which is in the front. The shot is blind. I go with my 6 iron for a 145/155-ish shot, and set up so that the blade is inclined and in line with the ball. I make an easy swing with clean contact, and get a towering shot. When I get over the hill, I find my ball about 10 yards short, on a nice lie, and directly on line with where I thought I was aimed. I hit a decent chip, leaving me with a straight 6 foot putt. I hit the putt, it came to rest just on the outside lip of the hole. It hung there for a second or two, and then dropped in. I get my par, and my highlight of the round.

 

If you ask me what I need to work on from those 9 holes, it’s my putting, given that I had a 4 putt, and my driving, which I struggled with that round. My irons weren’t perfect, but it’s not the area of greatest concern, and I’m playing fine golf with my blades and having fun. All of this being evidence that there’s no real harm if I’m a high handicapper who uses blades both for practice and on the course.

 

I’m not disputing there might be irons out there that are a more perfect fit for me. I recently had a partial fitting and got a recommendation for using aerotech Steelfiber 80 stiff shafts. However, at this point, I’m not willing to drop $300-$400 on a reshaft for marginal improvement. I don’t need perfect irons—I’m fine with good enough. Given a choice between my AP1s and MP-4s,I’m finding I play better with the MP-4s, that I get better contact more reliably with them, and thus that I have fewer shots that drop yards and that my average carry is better. I’ve also found that my AP1s don’t offer insurance off of mishits—my lowest carry numbers came from my mishits with the AP1s in the side by side sets I posted a few pages back. If I found that, even on a bad mishit, I got my 145 carry from a 6 iron, I wouldn’t have considered a shift. Instead, I find I mishit the AP1s more frequently than I do the MP-4s, and that the result is that I have more variance and less confidence with my AP1s. It might be entirely mental or a disconnect regarding the aesthetics at address, but it’s definitely real. At the end of the day, I don’t care why I’m hitting the MP-4s better than my AP1s—as long as it continues, I’m going to keep bagging them. If it stops, maybe I’ll finally bite the bullet and do a true iron fitting. : )

[nostatic]

There are many more clubs than AP1 and MP-4.

 

What's a "partial fitting"?

[revanant]

> @nostatic said:

> There are many more clubs than AP1 and MP-4.

>

> What's a "partial fitting"?

 

I’ve got 2 out of 3 hours left on a club champion fitting. We split up the sessions. It’s mostly informational, though I may pick up a 3 wood that I’m more comfortable hitting off the deck (current head is good off the tee, but I default to my Baffler for off the deck).

 

I’ve hit a ton of clubs for fun this year at various points, though. The only CBs that really stood out were the Titleist 716 CB—I hit it well and found it gave me a bit of extra height with just the standard stock s300 amt shafts—and the P-760, with the 716 CB being preferred on aesthetics.

 

Realistically, though, I think my money is better spent on lessons. I’m hitting my MP-4s well and I get a lot of practice with them. Driver is a different story, and I wouldn’t say no to more clubhead speed via improved technique.

[nostatic]

I think the 718 CB are beautiful clubs. Back in the day I hit DCI irons and liked those a lot. I tried the AP1 and AP3 and didn't like either of them. So far I'm really impressed with the Hot Metal Pros. Lot's of different ways to go. Agree on lessons, I've been doing them since Jan when I picked the game back up, will continue into summer. Goal is to play my local course even par (9 hole, not particularly long). Actually was even through 4 today until my back injury flared up and I headed home after 6. Looks like another week or two of ice and rehab. Getting old is a pita...

[revanant]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > @revanant said:

> > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > @revanant said:

> > > > > @Timbo929 said:

> > > > > > @KaiserSoze said:

> > > > > > All you guys/gals talking about blades being very playable with no real loss of distance or direction on mishits are ignoring fundamental physics and math. There is a reason perimeter weighted clubs work.

> > > > >

> > > > > I thought forgiveness on a iron heads were for distance only and not direction..

> > > > >

> > > > > like if you miss the sweet spot you will still get the distance but has nothing to do with "direction" forgiveness.

> > > > >

> > > > > I could be wrong but that's what my fitter said. Maybe technology advanced from 2016.

> > > > I don’t generally miss with a square clubface. Usually I’ve left it open. Sometimes, I can catch it closed.

> > > >

> > > > If I’m also not in the center of the club face with a blade, there’s less mass, so the ball doesn’t go so far offline. It loses steam.

> > > >

> > > > Perimeter weighting should do just that—put more weight in the perimeter. So if I make a strike with an open face, and I’m off center, then not only does the ball go right, but it should go further with more height. Now, I’m more offline.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > That makes no sense at all. Just hit PW on every shot. You'll always be short of the trouble even on a mishit, just like you want!

> > >

> > > Distance and dispersion are the same thing. Being 2* right at 60 mph ball speed at 2* right at 80 mph ball speed are not the same quality of swing or club - the second is much better even though it goes "further right". Again, if you would pick the 60 mph so your "miss will be less offline" then you're going to shoot high scores for a long time. You want your mishits to go as close to your normal distance as possible. Its the only possible way to manage them and the course. We play in three dimensions. **If you are telling us (I don't believe this, by the way) that your right miss with a blade is 20 freaking yards (60 feet) short, that gives you a box to miss in of approximately 1200 square feet, or the size of a small house.** So if you are starting a standard 30 yard green with trouble on two sides and your trusty rusty blade in your hand, where the **** do you aim? Just pin and pray? If those numbers are right you are throwing out, your dispersion pattern is so massive you can't possibly manage a course.

> >

> > I don’t get it—I literally put up photos up. It's on the prior page. :D

> >

> > That being said, I appreciate the response.

> >

> > My point is this: look at my last shot in the 2nd set vs the 3rd set. Same ball speed (98 mph), same spin (~3k), very different result. The AP1 6 Iron carries 136, rolls to 154, and is 47 feet off-line. The mishit from the MP-4 carries 118, rolls to 142, and is 12 inches offline. While factoring in roll is unreliable, I'll still prefer the dead-straight shot if given a choice. My home course is a links-style track that has a lot of wind and a typical slope of 135--it's very punishing on shots that are inaccurate, but not as much on shots that are short.

> >

> > If you don't mind, take a look at the shot dispersion and averages, and let me know what you think. If you went down to the range, and took those 50 shots, which set looks the best to you?

> >

> > When I read it, my average carry and roll look best with the MP-4. I also think my shot dispersion and control is better with the MP-4. For example, there's a big difference between the 4th set (AP1) and the 5th set (MP-4), even though I hit those 20 shots back to back. I think my MP-4 shots are closer to the target and carrying further. For whatever reason, I clunk the ball around more with the AP1 6 iron, despite my best efforts. The AP1 7 Iron was better than the AP1 6 iron, but the MP-4 got better numbers and I had better control. If you ignore the number on the club, the AP1 7 iron is 31 degrees of loft and 37 inches long, and the MP-4 is 30 degrees of loft and 37.25 inches longs, so we're talking about two very similar clubs.

> >

> > Am I really off-base here?

> >

> >

>

> I think you are, but there are others who don't. Not only can those roll measurements not be even close to accurate (how does the machine know how wet the ground is?), you can't go by them because they 1. vary with conditions and 2. the roll is dependent on topography which is not included in those numbers. That's why I said we play golf in three dimensions. You can't count the roll on the blade as "distance". You're comparing 118 to 136 not 154 to 142. You are making the logic mistake everyone makes - if you want to hit a club that is going to go shorter, just hit a club shorter. If the blade is 12 yards shorter than the same GI club the GI club dispersion will always be higher - its how geometry works. We measure in percent NOT absolute - the blade miss isn't 24 yards short, its (roughly) 1/6th short. That is massive.

>

> "I like the blade miss because it doesn't go as far and stays online" doesn't make any sense. Just hit one less of the GI iron (7 to 8) and you'll get the exact same result. It'll go shorter and be more online. Or you could grab one blade more and have the same miss as the GI club.

>

> There are reasons to play blades, and as I've said a hundred times I'm not an anti-blades guy, but "the ball rolls out straight and short when I miss" isn't one of them.

>

> I understand you play a "links-style" course but distance on the roll on a links course needs to be really tightly controlled. Good links players have controlled roll-outs, not just a failure to elevate it off the ground that results in 20 yards of roll. TBH, though, 20 yards of roll on an iron isn't an equipment issue.

>

> In other words, your results seems fine (the MP-4 data is good, and if you like them play them) but you seem to be retro-fitting reasoning to justify the MP-4s and that reasoning doesn't track to me. You like the MP-4s play the MP-4s. But the contention that 20 yards of straight roll with a 7 iron and 16 yards less carry is somehow a good thing I'm not biting.

>

Thanks for all of this. I agree with basically all of it. I’m focusing more on the carry than the roll with my strikes—I agree that the roll is estimated and that actual course conditions vary.

 

I have found that I don’t hit a lot of shots that lose more than 10 yards with my blades, and that I still lose those same 10 yards when I mishit my AP1s. I’ve also found that, from a cold start, I tend to hit my blades a little better, and that over a range session, my carry and dispersion improves with my MP-4s, where my AP1s remain a bit of a crapshoot.

 

Basically, when I do my job, I know my numbers—-145 carry with a 6 iron, a little less than 1000 x iron for spin, and shot shape as I choose it. For whatever reason—likely because I know I have less of a safety net with the MP-4s so I’m a bit more careful with my routine and setup—I find I get good results and put a good and relaxed swing on the ball more frequently with my less forgiving irons like the T-zoid and MP-4.

 

On the straight miss vs offline miss—I don’t know why my missed are straighter with the MP4. My only guess is that because I have a miss, and because my blades have less perimeter weighting, my struck ball doesn’t get as far downrange and therefore doesn’t have as much capacity to get into trouble, vs an errant shot where I have bad face-to-path but I’m going to retain more ball speed and height.

 

That being said, I’m not banking on a worm burner or a low shot as a defense on links course. Generally, I’m setting up to hit my ball with a medium ball flight at the yardage I expect on a good strike, with an eye towards a landing area that will still work if I’m 10 yards short. If I need to, I club up or down as necessary. I totally agree that the approach towards irons should be to club up or down as needed, rather than trying to hit x iron as far as possible. I don’t want to hit my 7 iron further if I’m really just hitting a shot with 5 iron spin.

 

I think ultimately, my takeaway is similar to yours. My numbers with the MP-4s seem fine. They seem playable. Subjectively, I really enjoy playing my MP-4s. There are probably irons on the market that will give me better results while still giving me great feel and a nice aesthetic package. It may not be a blade, and I have no problem with that. At some point, I will likely own a set. However, I’m a golfer on a budget, and I’m currently prioritizing lessons over gear, and among gear, the only thing I really may replace this season is my 3 wood for one that lets me hit off the deck more comfortably. I’m not willing to drop a lot of money on a new iron set, or even a shaft refit, so for now, my good-enough irons will do work as I continue to build up my on-course experience. : )

 

Additionally, I will probably still keep my blades in rotation, even if/when I pick up better irons. I will do so even if it means giving up a few strokes on a random Sunday outing. The reason is because I really enjoy playing my blades, and when I put up a good strike on the ball, it tends to make for a nice golf memory/experience. I’m also a bit of an idiosyncratic golfer—I would actually like to play a round with persimmons one day. Because I’ve never hit persimmons, and they’re probably a fun and memorable experience. Same with hickories. Why not, right? Worse thing that happens is that I log a bad round, but get a great experience and memorable story. : )

 

 

 

[Tree Levino]

I don't like the lowered spin model that comes with game improvement irons and I am not a proponent of them for the record. Saying that distance drop off is the same with a blade vs a cavity of some sort is delusional at best though. If you want something that looks like a players club but offers you help, pick up a cheap set of Ping iE1 irons or an old set of AP2. They are not the prettiest things in the world but please try those and then tell me over some time on the course that you aren't getting more help. They're still nice to look down at shape wise but the help will be there. The other thing to consider here is that your tee game being so bad doesn't give you the entire picture. If you're walking around the course with blades but hitting a bad drive and then smacking a 5w up inside the 150 you're not really playing the same way you will when you improve. For me the test is hitting a 190 par 3 tee shot with my 5i over water with a little breeze - you have to be confident in what you're looking down at then. That will let you know whether a club is playable for you or not. It also sounds like your distances are so bunched up that you have a massive gap in your bag which again shows the improper fit and also need for more lessons. I'm hitting my AP2 a club further than I was my Mizuno blades but still getting a decent spin number. There is no compromise - generally golfers are more consistent with a shorter shaft so if the fit is right hitting less club into a green will make you more successful as long as you're still getting the spin and descent to stop it. If you're hitting your 5i 155 carry and 4i 165 carry (extrapolating from the 145 6i carry and that is without mishitting it) that means a bit more ballspeed will be helpful. In that linked video the MP18 is literally 3mph ball speed lower than even the JPX 919 tour which is also basically a blade. If you don't mind sharing, what are your ball speed, peak height and descent angle numbers with both the AP1 and MP4? I didn't see them on your launch data.

 

[MelloYello]

@revanant has already stated he’d be happy with some type of a forged CB if he were starting from scratch. But since he already has 2 sets of irons (which he got a deal on), he’s simply using what he has on hand.

 

So it’s really a debate about whether a 20+ handicap should play a GI iron (AP1) or whether it’s okay _(or even potentially better)_ for that level of player to upgrade to a smaller forged CB/MB from the get go (MP4).

 

 

I started out on a set of blades so it worked fine for me. In my universe, there are forged MBs and forged CBs and that’s it. I don't actually advise people who are serious about the game to use GI irons unless they legitimately have concerns about hitting the ball a reasonable distance.

 

No matter how “bad” you are at golf, I doubt you would really see any actual scoring benefit from the "extra forgiveness" supposedly offered up with a GI or SGI club. While there is physics there, it’s more about confidence and looks. Whether a 27-handicap might turn himself into a 24-handicap with GI irons seems kind of pointless in the big picture to me.

 

I don’t think anyone who would be “fit” to GI irons (the kind of player who’s hitting it all over the face) is going to be consistent enough that equipment will even matter enough to worry about it. For the best (i.e. TW) and the worst, it's very much a _"play what gives you confidence and inspires you"_ situation. It's the one's in between (low handicaps) who should think about it carefully.

 

I think there is a level of proficiency where equipment does matter. For that level of player it's virtually always a question of practicality via the forged CB vs pure feedback via the forged MB.

 

Everyone I know who’s preferred a GI or "distance" iron has done so because they want all the help and distance they can get. So I appreciate that companies are ditching the "game improvement" verbiage and simply going with "distance iron." That's really what they are at the end of the day.

 

While I don't think @revanant is hitting his irons far enough to justify a small, player's club now with his 150-yd 6-iron, I do think he's getting close enough that he can manage it down to say, a 5- or 6-iron depending upon his course. After that, he can stick a hybrid in to provide better options where he'd otherwise have to hit a blade 3- or 4-iron.

 

So one thing I'd like to see is whether he can push that 6-iron out to 165- or 170-yards. If not, then I think he might do better in the long run getting used to a distance iron.

[lenman73]

For myself, I don't play in golf tournaments of any sort. Never been in one and no plans in the near future. I play for the simple fact I love to play golf. And to beat my playing partners when we are betting. Normally a beer or a round of chicken wings is on the line. I think a lot of what you can stand to look at plays a part in what I put in the bag. But honestly, if I beat my friends and I had blades in the bag, it just feels better. I have been at this for 30 years and started with wood woods, so looking down at a smaller iron doesn't cause me anxiety especially with what I have on the line. I am in no way insinuating that I am the norm or anything like that. Just different strokes for different folks. Unfortunately due to physical reasons, blades will not be part of my regular bag rotation going forward, and that stings me more than a thin 2 iron.

[puttingmatt]

> @mahonie said:

> Just throw this in here from an old article on here when Sean Toulon was at TM:

> ‘So why would a tour player choose to play a shorter-flying iron with the sweet spot the size of a pea when he or she could have a longer-flying iron with a sweet spot the size of a quarter? According to Toulon, tour players like blade irons despite their small sweet spots because they’re “slow everywhere.” So even though one-piece forged irons don’t fly as far as multi-material irons, they tend to fly around the same distance on center hits as on slight mis-hits. For better players who make contact near the sweet spot nearly every time, the improved distance control means more birdie chances.’

 

Agreed, for the better player

 

 

[revanant]

> @balls_deep said:

> I don't like the lowered spin model that comes with game improvement irons and I am not a proponent of them for the record. Saying that distance drop off is the same with a blade vs a cavity of some sort is delusional at best though. If you want something that looks like a players club but offers you help, pick up a cheap set of Ping iE1 irons or an old set of AP2. They are not the prettiest things in the world but please try those and then tell me over some time on the course that you aren't getting more help. They're still nice to look down at shape wise but the help will be there. The other thing to consider here is that your tee game being so bad doesn't give you the entire picture. If you're walking around the course with blades but hitting a bad drive and then smacking a 5w up inside the 150 you're not really playing the same way you will when you improve. For me the test is hitting a 190 par 3 tee shot with my 5i over water with a little breeze - you have to be confident in what you're looking down at then. That will let you know whether a club is playable for you or not. It also sounds like your distances are so bunched up that you have a massive gap in your bag which again shows the improper fit and also need for more lessons. I'm hitting my AP2 a club further than I was my Mizuno blades but still getting a decent spin number. There is no compromise - generally golfers are more consistent with a shorter shaft so if the fit is right hitting less club into a green will make you more successful as long as you're still getting the spin and descent to stop it. If you're hitting your 5i 155 carry and 4i 165 carry (extrapolating from the 145 6i carry and that is without mishitting it) that means a bit more ballspeed will be helpful. In that linked video the MP18 is literally 3mph ball speed lower than even the JPX 919 tour which is also basically a blade. If you don't mind sharing, what are your ball speed, peak height and descent angle numbers with both the AP1 and MP4? I didn't see them on your launch data.

>

>

 

Ball speed is on the summaries—it’s the number listed under MPH. I don’t actually get peak height or descent angle with the trugolf sim—it’s good but not quite a trackman.

 

I know I tend to get about 60-70 feet of height on my six iron. If I reshaft my irons, I may gain a little more height and consistent carry based on recent testing, but I think the gains are a bit marginal for the cost.

 

You have my gapping exactly right. Practically, I’m comfortable hitting down to a 4 iron. My 5w is my 170 carry minimum club, though I can get as much as 190 carry on an excellent swing. I’ve tested the cobra F9 3w and it’s giving me a club I can hit 190 from the deck. There may be room in my bag for a 7w if I drop the 4i down the road.

 

I’m not seeing a meaningful difference in ballspeed from the AP1s. Mishits retain speed, but my max distance on good hits is pretty comparable between the MP4s and AP1. Ultimately, I think my gapping and distance on my irons are fine, though I wouldn’t turn down 20 more yards and more consistency on my drives.

 

I do think I have more room to grow on swing speed. I’m in good health and shape and relatively young. I think it’s simply a matter of improving technique and maybe some targeted swing speed practice.

[revanant]

> @MelloYello said:

> @revanant has already stated he’d be happy with some type of a forged CB if he were starting from scratch. But since he already has 2 sets of irons (which he got a deal on), he’s simply using what he has on hand.

>

> So it’s really a debate about whether a 20+ handicap should play a GI iron (AP1) or whether it’s okay _(or even potentially better)_ for that level of player to upgrade to a smaller forged CB/MB from the get go (MP4).

>

>

> I started out on a set of blades so it worked fine for me. In my universe, there are forged MBs and forged CBs and that’s it. I don't actually advise people who are serious about the game to use GI irons unless they legitimately have concerns about hitting the ball a reasonable distance.

>

> No matter how “bad” you are at golf, I doubt you would really see any actual scoring benefit from the "extra forgiveness" supposedly offered up with a GI or SGI club. While there is physics there, it’s more about confidence and looks. Whether a 27-handicap might turn himself into a 24-handicap with GI irons seems kind of pointless in the big picture to me.

>

> I don’t think anyone who would be “fit” to GI irons (the kind of player who’s hitting it all over the face) is going to be consistent enough that equipment will even matter enough to worry about it. For the best (i.e. TW) and the worst, it's very much a _"play what gives you confidence and inspires you"_ situation. It's the one's in between (low handicaps) who should think about it carefully.

>

> I think there is a level of proficiency where equipment does matter. For that level of player it's virtually always a question of practicality via the forged CB vs pure feedback via the forged MB.

>

> Everyone I know who’s preferred a GI or "distance" iron has done so because they want all the help and distance they can get. So I appreciate that companies are ditching the "game improvement" verbiage and simply going with "distance iron." That's really what they are at the end of the day.

>

> While I don't think @revanant is hitting his irons far enough to justify a small, player's club now with his 150-yd 6-iron, I do think he's getting close enough that he can manage it down to say, a 5- or 6-iron depending upon his course. After that, he can stick a hybrid in to provide better options where he'd otherwise have to hit a blade 3- or 4-iron.

>

> So one thing I'd like to see is whether he can push that 6-iron out to 165- or 170-yards. If not, then I think he might do better in the long run getting used to a distance iron.

 

 

I think this is something I can get to over time. Even now, I’ve got the occasional swing speed spike to 80 mph / 110 mph ball speed during driving range sessions.

 

 

[nostatic]

> @revanant said:

>

> Basically, when I do my job, I know my numbers—-145 carry with a 6 iron, a little less than 1000 x iron for spin, and shot shape as I choose it. For whatever reason—likely because I know I have less of a safety net with the MP-4s so I’m a bit more careful with my routine and setup—I find I get good results and put a good and relaxed swing on the ball more frequently with my less forgiving irons like the T-zoid and MP-4.

 

Are you saying you can reliably shape your shots?

 

 

[revanant]

> @nostatic said:

> > @revanant said:

> >

> > Basically, when I do my job, I know my numbers—-145 carry with a 6 iron, a little less than 1000 x iron for spin, and shot shape as I choose it. For whatever reason—likely because I know I have less of a safety net with the MP-4s so I’m a bit more careful with my routine and setup—I find I get good results and put a good and relaxed swing on the ball more frequently with my less forgiving irons like the T-zoid and MP-4.

>

> Are you saying you can reliably shape your shots?

>

>

Yeah. I picked it up this year. Had a lesson that gave me an in to out swing path. Took me a few weeks, but—especially with the blades—I can manufacture a draw or a fade if needed. I mostly do it with setup and grip—I try to keep my in-to-out swingpath.

 

I’m not perfect, but I’m pretty good on the range. I’ve only played 18 holes with blades so far, but the one time I really needed a fade, I got it as planned. Likewise, my best shot of last season was an intentional draw that gave me a birdie after landing 3 feet from the pin from 125 out (par 4, so I had both a good drive and a good second shot and an easy putt—it was a great sequence.)

 

[mahonie]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @mahonie said:

> > Just throw this in here from an old article on here when Sean Toulon was at TM:

> > ‘So why would a tour player choose to play a shorter-flying iron with the sweet spot the size of a pea when he or she could have a longer-flying iron with a sweet spot the size of a quarter? According to Toulon, tour players like blade irons despite their small sweet spots because they’re “slow everywhere.” So even though one-piece forged irons don’t fly as far as multi-material irons, they tend to fly around the same distance on center hits as on slight mis-hits. For better players who make contact near the sweet spot nearly every time, the improved distance control means more birdie chances.’

>

> Lol that’s complete bs. For one most don’t use blades and it’s not really close. Two, those that do play blades virtually never miss that pea size sweet spot. It must’ve been a putter article instead of irons.

 

Don’t shoot the messenger, I was only quoting the Chief Exec of one of the biggest club manufacturer’s on the planet at the time. The article was about Rocketbladz Tour Irons as reviewed by Zak. Here’s the link: http://www.golfwrx.com/112242/taylormade-rocketbladez-tour-irons-editor-review/

[cliffhanger]

> > Are you saying you can reliably shape your shots?

> >

> >

> Yeah. I picked it up this year. Had a lesson that gave me an in to out swing path. Took me a few weeks, but—especially with the blades—I can manufacture a draw or a fade if needed. I mostly do it with setup and grip—I try to keep my in-to-out swingpath.

>

> I’m not perfect, but I’m pretty good on the range. I’ve only played 18 holes with blades so far, but the one time I really needed a fade, I got it as planned. Likewise, my best shot of last season was an intentional draw that gave me a birdie after landing 3 feet from the pin from 125 out (par 4, so I had both a good drive and a good second shot and an easy putt—it was a great sequence.)

>

You have a lot of doubters out there, however I am not one of them. You must be tired by now of trying to answer these ridiculous comments where each guy tries to find a new angle to discredit what you are saying. Asking "are you saying you can reliably shape your shots" is painful to read when you clearly stated above that "Basically, when I do my job, I know my numbers—-145 carry with a 6 iron, a little less than 1000 x iron for spin, and shot shape as I choose it." I think your point was very clear to me.

I swear sometimes it may be just easier to agree with someone and let them continue to think they are right then to carry on explaining yourself in a perfectly rational way. If they don't get it by now, no amount of explanation from you will change that.

Until people realize that our differences or uniqueness apply to golf and there are many ways to score lets say 90... you are wasting your time... however I applaud you for your efforts.

 

[BiggErn]

> @mahonie said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @mahonie said:

> > > Just throw this in here from an old article on here when Sean Toulon was at TM:

> > > ‘So why would a tour player choose to play a shorter-flying iron with the sweet spot the size of a pea when he or she could have a longer-flying iron with a sweet spot the size of a quarter? According to Toulon, tour players like blade irons despite their small sweet spots because they’re “slow everywhere.” So even though one-piece forged irons don’t fly as far as multi-material irons, they tend to fly around the same distance on center hits as on slight mis-hits. For better players who make contact near the sweet spot nearly every time, the improved distance control means more birdie chances.’

> >

> > Lol that’s complete bs. For one most don’t use blades and it’s not really close. Two, those that do play blades virtually never miss that pea size sweet spot. It must’ve been a putter article instead of irons.

>

> Don’t shoot the messenger, I was only quoting the Chief Exec of one of the biggest club manufacturer’s on the planet at the time. The article was about Rocketbladz Tour Irons as reviewed by Zak. Here’s the link: http://www.golfwrx.com/112242/taylormade-rocketbladez-tour-irons-editor-review/

 

The article you posted has absolutely nothing to do with what you said. Actually it’s the complete opposite.

[nostatic]

> @cliffhanger said:

 

> You have a lot of doubters out there, however I am not one of them. You must be tired by now of trying to answer these ridiculous comments where each guy tries to find a new angle to discredit what you are saying. Asking "are you saying you can reliably shape your shots" is painful to read when you clearly stated above that "Basically, when I do my job, I know my numbers—-145 carry with a 6 iron, a little less than 1000 x iron for spin, and shot shape as I choose it." I think your point was very clear to me.

 

We all have our own experiences that have shaped our opinions. I have seen very few players who are 20+ handicap, hit a 6i 145, and can *reliably* shape their shots. Not saying it isn't impossible, just not something I find to be typical. Ymmv.

 

As I've stated before - people should play what they want, and player psychology has a huge impact on performance.

 

 

[dpb5031]

> @MelloYello said:

> @revanant has already stated he’d be happy with some type of a forged CB if he were starting from scratch. But since he already has 2 sets of irons (which he got a deal on), he’s simply using what he has on hand.

>

> So it’s really a debate about whether a 20+ handicap should play a GI iron (AP1) or whether it’s okay _(or even potentially better)_ for that level of player to **upgrade to a smaller forged CB/MB** from the get go (MP4).

> I started out on a set of blades so it worked fine for me. **In my universe, there are forged MBs and forged CBs and that’s it**. I don't actually advise people who are serious about the game to use GI irons unless they legitimately have concerns about hitting the ball a reasonable distance.

 

> I think there is a level of proficiency where equipment does matter. For that level of player it's virtually always a question of practicality via the **forged CB** vs pure feedback via the forged MB.

 

@MelloYellow, just curious...do you believe that it's important that the "smaller/player's CB is forged v. cast? There are plenty of smaller player's CB irons that are not manufactured via a forging process. Ping, most notably comes to mind.