Pros and others throw USGA under the bus.

[bladehunter]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @RobS14526 said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > @RobS14526 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > > > > > > Not everyone. Most want a fair, tough test. Narrow fairways, deep rough and small greens. If you shoot that score on a tough, fair set up then you deserve it no matter the title of the tournament.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I agree. I’m just not sure we all define fair the same way. For me, if a handful of players hit a short iron above the pin, they should have no expectation that they can even keep their putt on the green. They made a mistake and put themselves out of position. If the field can’t keep well executed shots below the hole, that is unfair.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lol. So you want to see balls putted off the green ?

> > > > > > > > Come on. That’s the very Mickey Mouse setups that give the USga the name they have earned.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I don’t want to see balls putted off the green, but I think missing a shot with a short iron/wedge should be every bit as penal as missing a fairway.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3 putts from bad spots I get. But putting off the green is across the line. Especially if it’s not because somebody rams it. If you breathe on a 12 footer down hill and it rolls by and off 20 yards. That’s a crime. It goes from us open to pure nonsense.

> > > > >

> > > > > Agreed. That is a pin and green speed where the ball would roll back at you if you missed from below the hole.

> > > >

> > > > [https://usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=143&Rule=16](https://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=143&Rule=16 "https://usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=143&Rule=16")

> > > >

> > > > _"An area two to three feet in radius around the hole should be as nearly level as possible and of uniform grade. In no case should holes be located in tricky places, or on sharp slopes where a ball can gather speed. A player above the hole should be able to stop the ball at the hole."_

> > >

> > > Even with that suggestion if the greens are fast enough they'll keep rolling downhill.

> > >

> > > With the green speeds at modern majors some pin positions used in the past are really no longer viable.

> >

> > These are the USGA's own guidelines. A player should be able to stop the ball at the hole from above the hole. It may not be easy to do but it should be able to be done,,,,,,,,,,,, ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

> >

>

> Another indication of how badly they drop the ball then based on their own standards.

 

100 %. When you can’t follow your own rule. What else needs to be said

[scores]

Some players are just entitled to have a setup

that suits their game However, they need to suit their game to the open.

[North Texas]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > @RobS14526 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > > > > > > Not everyone. Most want a fair, tough test. Narrow fairways, deep rough and small greens. If you shoot that score on a tough, fair set up then you deserve it no matter the title of the tournament.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I agree. I’m just not sure we all define fair the same way. For me, if a handful of players hit a short iron above the pin, they should have no expectation that they can even keep their putt on the green. They made a mistake and put themselves out of position. If the field can’t keep well executed shots below the hole, that is unfair.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lol. So you want to see balls putted off the green ?

> > > > > > > > Come on. That’s the very Mickey Mouse setups that give the USga the name they have earned.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You guys can debate what the proper winning score and the proper set up will be, but on Sunday there will be a US Open Champion and no one will be able to take anything away from him. It might be Jim Furyk (Pebble is short and narrow), it might be someone like Tom Kite (Francisco Molinari?), and it might be Brooks, or Tiger (doubtful) or even Phil. DJ's redemption story.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Whoever it is, he will be the US Open Champion. If he wins a couple, like Reteif Goosen, he might get into the Hall of Fame.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But whatever happens, he will be the US Open Champion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I’m not sure anybody has questioned that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We’d just like to see skill dictate it. Not a lucky or unlucky bounce caused by the committee.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You know as well as I that there have been several instances where USga greens have repelled all shots. Putts crept by holes and went into bunkers 20 feet past etc. that’s when it turns to luck.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It just turns some folks on to watch chance take over. Usually those folks are the same who don’t understand what it’s like to actually control a golf ball. That’s why they cannot understand all the hubbub when you make it so the ball cant be controlled even by the elite. That’s not my opinion. That’s actually what’s going on in this tug of war.

> > > > >

> > > > > News Flash! Pretty much every major championship has both lucky and unlucky bounces. The Open Championship is full of them.

> > > >

> > > > No offense. But I knew that was coming. I’m not talking about normal pure luck. I’m talking about the USga manufactured luck. The shinecock putting into bunkers luck.

> > >

> > > No offense taken. Now tell me how many times we've seen someone putt the ball into bunkers during a US Open. I'll give you a hint. Very, very few.

> >

> > Sure. Shinecock and chambers bay are the two that come to mind easy.

> >

> > But there’s also several putt up , miss and have it roll back at you moments.

> >

> > Besides. It was the DJ rule that caused my dues to go unpaid anyway. When they overruled 2 players and a walking official with a grainy zoomed in instant replay and notified him of it in the middle of the back 9 on Sunday. I truly could not believe what I was watching. And when Dj gave account of the conversation with the officials I was just in disbelief. They basically told him “ we want you to call the penalty on yourself “ By saying something to the effect of “ you need to see the zoomed video “. He said no , so they finally called it on him. His quote after was this “ if I had lost id still be standing there arguing with them “. That does not tell me that he agreed with the ruling. And yet they tried to get him to bail them out. In my mind that’s dishonest. On two levels. One , you are calling your official with the group a liar , or at least incompetent. Two. You don’t want to call the penalty , you want the player to do it for you ? When he already doesn’t believe he breached a rule. Come on.

> >

> > I’ll stop there. The mistrust is about far more than green speed and pin placements. It’s integrity and accountability. In my short experience with them they’ve really shirked every bit of blame that was due them , with best responses being a quiet rules change when it’s clear they have no choice.

>

> When a ruling body pulls something like the situation with DJ then no one should have any faith in them and demand a complete cleansing of leadership. Heads, a lot of them, should have rolled.

 

I don't disagree with you about the DJ ruling fiasco. The actual ruling itself may or may not been right but the way they handled it was totally incompetent.

[North Texas]

> @howellhandmade said:

> Waiting for the other shoe to drop, factually, with the business of the kid who was DQ from the qualifier for turning in his scorecard late. He says he went to the bathroom (minimal delay) USGA says he went to lunch (substantial delay). Haven’t heard any more about it, which may mean that the kid was lying and just went away, but if the USGA is lying the matter should be addressed.

 

Just an FYI, there is another thread where this specific incident is being discussed.

[North Texas]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > Awesome, if not surprising, commentary right now on Live From with Brandel, Frank, and David. Basically defending the USGA.

>

> Lol. How is it that I just watched the replay of that and agreed with everything they said? Especially Brandel. And yet somehow we disagree ?

 

We don't disagree on whether or not the USGA has messed up. We just disagree on the degree of their mess ups. I think it is way overblown, exaggerated, and embellished. And I also don't mind one bit seeing the USGA push things to the edge in making a course play difficult. Sometimes that has gone awry but not near to the extent their critics says it has. Well, except for 2004.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > Awesome, if not surprising, commentary right now on Live From with Brandel, Frank, and David. Basically defending the USGA.

> >

> > Lol. How is it that I just watched the replay of that and agreed with everything they said? Especially Brandel. And yet somehow we disagree ?

>

> We don't disagree on whether or not the USGA has messed up. We just disagree on the degree of their mess ups. I think it is way overblown, exaggerated, and embellished. And I also don't mind one bit seeing the USGA push things to the edge in making a course play difficult. Sometimes that has gone awry but not near to the extent their critics says it has. Well, except for 2004.

>

>

 

See I can actually agree with it being overblown IF .... and it’s a huge IF. They actually publicly acknowledged the entire series of events since 2015 and said “ were going to put the open back to the standard it enjoyed for many years and deserves to be at “. For me that’s the thing. They are releasing statements through media unofficially , making quiet changes etc. in an attempt to quietly right the ship. I hate that kind of secrecy and shrugging off of responsibilities. It just shows their low self esteem and how weak they feel. Afraid to give in one inch.

 

Which is why I don’t currently feel that it’s overblown in that context. It being overblown is the only reason that anything is being done about it. Otherwise who knows where they’d take it.

[buckeyefl]

> @"North Texas" said:

> Awesome, if not surprising, commentary right now on Live From with Brandel, Frank, and David. Basically defending the USGA.

 

They sure weren't earlier in the day.

[bladehunter]

Let me be the first to say that this new competition guy in the press conference is infinitely easier to listen to than mike Davis. Maybe mr Davis is the person of issue ? I forget Davis is sitting there. Then catch a glimpse of him and throw up a little in my mouth. Lol. ( how’s that for hyperbole nsx ).

[BIG STU]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > Awesome, if not surprising, commentary right now on Live From with Brandel, Frank, and David. Basically defending the USGA.

>

> They sure weren't earlier in the day.

 

If you ask me and this is just MHO it has flip flopped back and forth from slamming back to defending. Sorta like a Chameleon .

everyone who knows me on here knows I am the biggest detractor of the USGA on this board but hearing they hired Jason Gore to be a liaison between the players and the USGA seems to be maybe a positive step ----- IF they listen to his input. I may try to watch this weekend if I can somehow manage to stomach the USGA propaganda commercials. You know the ones about "preserving and the betterment of the game" That is to be determined

[buckeyefl]

> @"BIG STU" said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > Awesome, if not surprising, commentary right now on Live From with Brandel, Frank, and David. Basically defending the USGA.

> >

> > They sure weren't earlier in the day.

>

> If you ask me and this is just MHO it has flip flopped back and forth from slamming back to defending. Sorta like a Chameleon .

> everyone who knows me on here knows I am the biggest detractor of the USGA on this board but hearing they hired Jason Gore to be a liaison between the players and the USGA seems to be maybe a positive step ----- IF they listen to his input. I may try to watch this weekend if I can somehow manage to stomach the USGA propaganda commercials. You know the ones about "preserving and the betterment of the game" That is to be determined

 

Listening to this afternoons propaganda press Q&A did nothing to curb my dislike of leadership. The topic of "technology" and what they are going to or not going to do was laughable.

[bspn]

The show I saw had Duval criticizing the USGA, Nobilo mostly on the fence and Brandel seizing the opportunity to slag off Phil. I'd hardly call it a ringing endorsement of the USGA.

[Shilgy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @RobS14526 said:

> > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > @RobS14526 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone. Most want a fair, tough test. Narrow fairways, deep rough and small greens. If you shoot that score on a tough, fair set up then you deserve it no matter the title of the tournament.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I agree. I’m just not sure we all define fair the same way. For me, if a handful of players hit a short iron above the pin, they should have no expectation that they can even keep their putt on the green. They made a mistake and put themselves out of position. If the field can’t keep well executed shots below the hole, that is unfair.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Lol. So you want to see balls putted off the green ?

> > > > > > > > > Come on. That’s the very Mickey Mouse setups that give the USga the name they have earned.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I don’t want to see balls putted off the green, but I think missing a shot with a short iron/wedge should be every bit as penal as missing a fairway.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3 putts from bad spots I get. But putting off the green is across the line. Especially if it’s not because somebody rams it. If you breathe on a 12 footer down hill and it rolls by and off 20 yards. That’s a crime. It goes from us open to pure nonsense.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Agreed. That is a pin and green speed where the ball would roll back at you if you missed from below the hole.

> > > > >

> > > > > [https://usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=143&Rule=16](https://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=143&Rule=16 "https://usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=143&Rule=16")

> > > > >

> > > > > _"An area two to three feet in radius around the hole should be as nearly level as possible and of uniform grade. In no case should holes be located in tricky places, or on sharp slopes where a ball can gather speed. A player above the hole should be able to stop the ball at the hole."_

> > > >

> > > > Even with that suggestion if the greens are fast enough they'll keep rolling downhill.

> > > >

> > > > With the green speeds at modern majors some pin positions used in the past are really no longer viable.

> > >

> > > These are the USGA's own guidelines. A player should be able to stop the ball at the hole from above the hole. It may not be easy to do but it should be able to be done,,,,,,,,,,,, ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

> > >

> >

> > Another indication of how badly they drop the ball then based on their own standards.

>

> 100 %. When you can’t follow your own rule. What else needs to be said

 

A couple times conditions changed. Heck twice at Shinnecock alone. Olympic was another. All three of those examples the pin was okay early. Then greens dried out and speed up and crusty and things got stupid

Is that the USGA's fault? Yes it is. Could it be also the fault of the media and fans that insist they want the players to suffer at US Opens. Yes again. It seems paradoxical to me to demand a tough setup where the winner will be at best even par and then slam the USGA if it gets over the edge.

[bladehunter]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > @RobS14526 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @RobS14526 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone. Most want a fair, tough test. Narrow fairways, deep rough and small greens. If you shoot that score on a tough, fair set up then you deserve it no matter the title of the tournament.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I agree. I’m just not sure we all define fair the same way. For me, if a handful of players hit a short iron above the pin, they should have no expectation that they can even keep their putt on the green. They made a mistake and put themselves out of position. If the field can’t keep well executed shots below the hole, that is unfair.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Lol. So you want to see balls putted off the green ?

> > > > > > > > > > Come on. That’s the very Mickey Mouse setups that give the USga the name they have earned.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I don’t want to see balls putted off the green, but I think missing a shot with a short iron/wedge should be every bit as penal as missing a fairway.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3 putts from bad spots I get. But putting off the green is across the line. Especially if it’s not because somebody rams it. If you breathe on a 12 footer down hill and it rolls by and off 20 yards. That’s a crime. It goes from us open to pure nonsense.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Agreed. That is a pin and green speed where the ball would roll back at you if you missed from below the hole.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [https://usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=143&Rule=16](https://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=143&Rule=16 "https://usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=143&Rule=16")

> > > > > >

> > > > > > _"An area two to three feet in radius around the hole should be as nearly level as possible and of uniform grade. In no case should holes be located in tricky places, or on sharp slopes where a ball can gather speed. A player above the hole should be able to stop the ball at the hole."_

> > > > >

> > > > > Even with that suggestion if the greens are fast enough they'll keep rolling downhill.

> > > > >

> > > > > With the green speeds at modern majors some pin positions used in the past are really no longer viable.

> > > >

> > > > These are the USGA's own guidelines. A player should be able to stop the ball at the hole from above the hole. It may not be easy to do but it should be able to be done,,,,,,,,,,,, ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

> > > >

> > >

> > > Another indication of how badly they drop the ball then based on their own standards.

> >

> > 100 %. When you can’t follow your own rule. What else needs to be said

>

> A couple times conditions changed. Heck twice at Shinnecock alone. Olympic was another. All three of those examples the pin was okay early. Then greens dried out and speed up and crusty and things got stupid

> Is that the USGA's fault? Yes it is. Could it be also the fault of the media and fans that insist they want the players to suffer at US Opens. Yes again. It seems paradoxical to me to demand a tough setup where the winner will be at best even par and then slam the USGA if it gets over the edge.

 

Yep. I personally couldn’t care any less what the winning score is to par. -12 or so would be fine by me. I’d love to see tiger do it again. But it is funny to me how the ones who say par doesn’t matter are also the ones who want the score to be over par. Lol.

[BMC]

A lot of whining. The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

Brooks Koepka isn't complaining. He's a tough Mofo. Phil's complaining because he's never won it.

[OrangeGravy]

Ignoring for a minute who is right or wrong in this Players vs USGA course setup issue. I think like a lot of sports in the modern era, the huge amount of money that players make has completely changed the dynamic. The NBA is probably the best example (I hate the NBA, they stole my Sonics). The star players and really everyone on the roster makes more money than the coaches. Coaches basically serve at the pleasure of team's star player. Golfers make so much money these days compared to decades past and they no longer feel the need to "toe the line" so to speak when it comes to voicing their opinion on these things. I'm guessing if players made equivalent money back in the 60's-80's you would've heard just as much complaining. Back then it was probably looked at like biting the hand that feeds you for all but maybe a couple big names. Is the USGA really behaving any different than they always have or is it just actually being complained about more in recent times? If they aren't, then it's a non-issue for me. If they have changed their behavior then I can see the outrage I suppose.

Not sure how relevant. Just a thought I had in my head and another way to look at it.

[tannyhoban]

Well shoot, I can remember Hale Irwin calling Hazeltine a cow pasture.

 

The correct answer is Dave Hill. Anyways, somebody called it a cow pasture.

[gvogel]

> @tannyhoban said:

> Well shoot, I can remember Hale Irwin calling Hazeltine a cow pasture.

 

I think that was Dave Hill.

 

Edit: it was Dave Hill.

[Roadking2003]

> @BMC said:

> A lot of whining.

 

Discussing and criticizing does not equal whining.

 

>The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

 

Really? Just the toughest? Fair doesn't matter? Then why not put an alligator on every green? If tougher = better there are lots of ridiculous options available.

 

[North Texas]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @BMC said:

> > A lot of whining.

>

> Discussing and criticizing does not equal whining.

>

> >The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

>

> Really? Just the toughest? Fair doesn't matter? Then why not put an alligator on every green? If tougher = better there are lots of ridiculous options available.

>

 

Granted, they have sometime lost the "fairness" of some holes over the years. What they haven't lost is that everyone plays the same course. Tee the damn ball up and may the best man win that week. Which pretty much happens at every US Open. I love it when the US Open is tough and tests all aspects of their game including how tough they are mentally.

[bladehunter]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @BMC said:

> > > A lot of whining.

> >

> > Discussing and criticizing does not equal whining.

> >

> > >The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

> >

> > Really? Just the toughest? Fair doesn't matter? Then why not put an alligator on every green? If tougher = better there are lots of ridiculous options available.

> >

>

> Granted, they have sometime lost the "fairness" of some holes over the years. What they haven't lost is that everyone plays the same course. Tee the **** ball up and may the best man win that week. Which pretty much happens at every US Open. I love it when the US Open is tough and tests all aspects of their game including how tough they are mentally.

 

Yes. But that’s been some of the gripe. Morning groups for instance saw very different greens last year on Saturday vs the afternoon. That’s when some pins became trick shots.

 

People seem to think every shot is luck anyway ? Not even close to the truth.

[North Texas]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @BMC said:

> > > > A lot of whining.

> > >

> > > Discussing and criticizing does not equal whining.

> > >

> > > >The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

> > >

> > > Really? Just the toughest? Fair doesn't matter? Then why not put an alligator on every green? If tougher = better there are lots of ridiculous options available.

> > >

> >

> > Granted, they have sometime lost the "fairness" of some holes over the years. What they haven't lost is that everyone plays the same course. Tee the **** ball up and may the best man win that week. Which pretty much happens at every US Open. I love it when the US Open is tough and tests all aspects of their game including how tough they are mentally.

>

> Yes. But that’s been some of the gripe. Morning groups for instance saw very different greens last year on Saturday vs the afternoon. That’s when some pins became trick shots.

>

> People seem to think every shot is luck anyway ? Not even close to the truth.

 

I'm pretty sure that conditions are different between the morning and afternoon in pretty much every tournament played anywhere.

[bladehunter]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > @BMC said:

> > > > > A lot of whining.

> > > >

> > > > Discussing and criticizing does not equal whining.

> > > >

> > > > >The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

> > > >

> > > > Really? Just the toughest? Fair doesn't matter? Then why not put an alligator on every green? If tougher = better there are lots of ridiculous options available.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Granted, they have sometime lost the "fairness" of some holes over the years. What they haven't lost is that everyone plays the same course. Tee the **** ball up and may the best man win that week. Which pretty much happens at every US Open. I love it when the US Open is tough and tests all aspects of their game including how tough they are mentally.

> >

> > Yes. But that’s been some of the gripe. Morning groups for instance saw very different greens last year on Saturday vs the afternoon. That’s when some pins became trick shots.

> >

> > People seem to think every shot is luck anyway ? Not even close to the truth.

>

> I'm pretty sure that conditions are different between the morning and afternoon in pretty much every tournament played anywhere.

 

Yes. But they cross the line with some pin placements. Instead of placing pins and allowing some morning birdies to assure a playable location on the afternoon , they forget that and place them to stop morning scoring which in some hole locations causes afternoon Mickey Mouse 3-4 putt instances after green in regulation. That’s what I’m talking about. What you mention is Mother Nature. What I’m saying is setup flaws.

[jonsnow]

The obsession with "fair" is so far out of control it's ridiculous. The meaning of the word has become so skewed; I always thought fair meant "equal opportunity" where now people seem to think it means "the way I want it." When has golf (or life, for that matter) ever been fair? Is it fair that DJ & Rory drive the ball 100 yards further than I can? Is it fair that the weather can affect the morning tee times far more than the afternoon tee times or vice versa? I want to see a U S Open setup that gives everyone who qualifies an equal opportunity to display their strengths & weaknesses. That includes the ability to get up & down from less than desirable lies around the greens; isn't that a valuable skill to have in the game just like the ability to drive the ball long & straight & strike accurate irons? Also to show their mental toughness (or lack of it) when things don't go their way; isn't that a valuable skill to have? There's a lot more to golf than ballstriking & perfect conditions.

[North Texas]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > @BMC said:

> > > > > > A lot of whining.

> > > > >

> > > > > Discussing and criticizing does not equal whining.

> > > > >

> > > > > >The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

> > > > >

> > > > > Really? Just the toughest? Fair doesn't matter? Then why not put an alligator on every green? If tougher = better there are lots of ridiculous options available.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Granted, they have sometime lost the "fairness" of some holes over the years. What they haven't lost is that everyone plays the same course. Tee the **** ball up and may the best man win that week. Which pretty much happens at every US Open. I love it when the US Open is tough and tests all aspects of their game including how tough they are mentally.

> > >

> > > Yes. But that’s been some of the gripe. Morning groups for instance saw very different greens last year on Saturday vs the afternoon. That’s when some pins became trick shots.

> > >

> > > People seem to think every shot is luck anyway ? Not even close to the truth.

> >

> > I'm pretty sure that conditions are different between the morning and afternoon in pretty much every tournament played anywhere.

>

> Yes. But they cross the line with some pin placements. Instead of placing pins and allowing some morning birdies to assure a playable location on the afternoon , they forget that and place them to stop morning scoring which in some hole locations causes afternoon Mickey Mouse 3-4 putt instances after green in regulation. That’s what I’m talking about. What you mention is Mother Nature. What I’m saying is setup flaws.

 

What you mention is Mother Nature as well. An example of a setup flaw is what happened in 2004 when the first groups out had issues with a green.

[bladehunter]

You have to set it up for all day play. Not just 730- 11-30. That’s my point. Sure warm weather caused it. But it was a foreseeable issue

[umassgolfer]

IF (big if) the USGA is able to get through this event scandal free, can we get a little bit over the US Open complaining and go back to just complaining about how they're ruining the game by focusing on rules to challenge and/or appease the .001%?

[nsxguy]

> @bladehunter said:

> You have to set it up for all day play. Not just 730- 11-30. That’s my point. Sure warm weather caused it. But it was a foreseeable issue

 

I think you've got a handle on the entire situation. Maybe you should apply for a job with the USGA.

[buckeyefl]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > You have to set it up for all day play. Not just 730- 11-30. That’s my point. Sure warm weather caused it. But it was a foreseeable issue

>

> I think you've got a handle on the entire situation. Maybe you should apply for a job with the USGA.

 

Be careful you may pull s sarcasm muscle in your defense if the indefensible. Even Davis admitted as much but by all means use that Bethpage fan sense of superiority to try to shut someone down.

[nsxguy]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > You have to set it up for all day play. Not just 730- 11-30. That’s my point. Sure warm weather caused it. But it was a foreseeable issue

> >

> > I think you've got a handle on the entire situation. Maybe you should apply for a job with the USGA.

>

> Be careful you may pull s sarcasm muscle in your defense if the indefensible. Even Davis admitted as much but by all means use that Bethpage fan sense of superiority to try to shut someone down.

 

Maybe you should apply also ?

[buckeyefl]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > You have to set it up for all day play. Not just 730- 11-30. That’s my point. Sure warm weather caused it. But it was a foreseeable issue

> > >

> > > I think you've got a handle on the entire situation. Maybe you should apply for a job with the USGA.

> >

> > Be careful you may pull s sarcasm muscle in your defense if the indefensible. Even Davis admitted as much but by all means use that Bethpage fan sense of superiority to try to shut someone down.

>

> Maybe you should apply also ?

 

OUTHAMPTON, New York — Mike Davis always wants the U.S. Open course to be fair. He said it multiple times this week, both in a closed-door setting with golf journalists and his press conference that followed later. On Saturday, when the course setup was criticized throughout the day, he admitted the setup became “too tough this afternoon.”

 

Davis (as well as his colleague John Bodenhamer) joined Joe Buck and Paul Azinger in the FOX booth following play and was asked about some player reactions, particularly Zach Johnson saying the USGA had “lost the golf course.”

 

**“There were some aspects of this setup that went too far where well executed shots weren’t awarded, but were penalized,” Davis said, admitting it was a tale of two golf courses. ****“Frankly, we just missed it with the wind. it blew harder than we thought.” ( even though every forecast predicted it)

******

**The 5 a.m. weather forecast called for a much more blustery afternoon than the morning**, which various players took advantage of. Daniel Berger and Tony Finau, who each teed off before 11 a.m., both shot four under and will make up the final pairing Sunday. It’s a good chance they’ll see a different golf course again at that time.

 

Davis also joined Golf Channel Saturday evening, adding, “We are very confident we can slow the course down.” If they had the chance, would they do things differently? Davis admitted they probably would if they’d known the wind would blow as hard as it did. ( EVEYONE KNEW except him and his buddies)

 

“We put water on this course last night,” Davis said. “We put water on it this morning. What is clear is, we simply just didn’t get enough.”