My Paper Tiger journey / 1 year full time golfer job starts Monday 7-1-19

[ThinkingPlus]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @grantc79 said:

> > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > @grantc79 said:

> > > > > Basically my golf swing now is take away to top then a hip slide no rotation, then fire the right tricep to drive the right arm through impact.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ted fort is the guru of this style.

> > > > >

> > > > > My speed goes down from 112 range to 108 but it's waaaaay easier to repeat and no rotational stress.

> > > >

> > > > You are TGM hitting? Interesting. Have you taken lessons with Ted?

> > >

> > > Not in person I've had them locally through another tgm but Ted fort is the man to see hes mastered it himself

> >

> > Yes. I know Ted. Did a 3 day school with Lynn Blake and Ted many years ago. Really, really good guys.

>

> You teach?

 

Was just one of the students. Lee Deitrick was there as well. SoCal teacher. It was held at the SCPGA facility near Redlands, CA.

[CaddiesFault]

Take a lesson from a trusted PGA professional. tell him your goal and that you need a couple things to work on. You will reap the benefits with the amount you are able to practice!

[MountainGoat]

> @CaddiesFault said:

> Take a lesson from a trusted PGA professional. tell him your goal and that you need a couple things to work on. You will reap the benefits with the amount you are able to practice!

If this thread has been useful for anything, it's because it stands as a complete refutation of that line of thinking.

 

If you had read from the beginning, you would have seen the following: 1) he started with a teacher; 2) he went to a second teacher to confirm what the first teacher was telling him; 3) he got injured following the teacher's advice; 4) he discovered significant orthopedic imbalances that prevented him from implementing any teaching, regardless of the source; 5) he started rehab three time a week to improve his imbalances; 6) he focused on his putting and short game; and 7) he implemented a body-friendly long game method he previously learned that allowed him to stay on the golf course and avoid penalties. The result is that he cut his handicap in half in less than three months and is now regularly shooting in the mid-70s.

 

There's a tremendous lesson in this experience for all of us. Personally, I'll be interested to see where he goes from here.

 

[CaddiesFault]

> @MountainGoat said:

> > @CaddiesFault said:

> > Take a lesson from a trusted PGA professional. tell him your goal and that you need a couple things to work on. You will reap the benefits with the amount you are able to practice!

> If this thread has been useful for anything, it's because it stands as a complete refutation of that line of thinking.

>

> If you had read from the beginning, you would have seen the following: 1) he started with a teacher; 2) he went to a second teacher to confirm what the first teacher was telling him; 3) he got injured following the teacher's advice; 4) he discovered significant orthopedic imbalances that prevented him from implementing any teaching, regardless of the source; 5) he started rehab three time a week to improve his imbalances; 6) he focused on his putting and short game; and 7) he implemented a body-friendly long game method he previously learned that allowed him to stay on the golf course and avoid penalties. The result is that he cut his handicap in half in less than three months and is now regularly shooting in the mid-70s.

>

> There's a tremendous lesson in this experience for all of us. Personally, I'll be interested to see where he goes from here.

>

 

Gotcha. There's like 18 pages at this point so im not reading all of that but it is definitely interesting to know. As a teacher myself, part of my pre-lesson questionnaire includes physical limitations. The PGA of America spends a good chunk of time with their apprentices regarding body movement and physical limitation so the fact that he went to multiple professionals and none were able to work around his physical limitations is a little concerning to me.

 

There should be many many professionals who are great at teaching golfers who have limitations. That is part of the great part about golf, you can play even if you are old or not fully healthy! Good luck in the journey to the OP, and hopefully it all works out. Wish i could play that much, I am jealous!

[jut111]

> @CaddiesFault said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > > @CaddiesFault said:

> > > Take a lesson from a trusted PGA professional. tell him your goal and that you need a couple things to work on. You will reap the benefits with the amount you are able to practice!

> > If this thread has been useful for anything, it's because it stands as a complete refutation of that line of thinking.

> >

> > If you had read from the beginning, you would have seen the following: 1) he started with a teacher; 2) he went to a second teacher to confirm what the first teacher was telling him; 3) he got injured following the teacher's advice; 4) he discovered significant orthopedic imbalances that prevented him from implementing any teaching, regardless of the source; 5) he started rehab three time a week to improve his imbalances; 6) he focused on his putting and short game; and 7) he implemented a body-friendly long game method he previously learned that allowed him to stay on the golf course and avoid penalties. The result is that he cut his handicap in half in less than three months and is now regularly shooting in the mid-70s.

> >

> > There's a tremendous lesson in this experience for all of us. Personally, I'll be interested to see where he goes from here.

> >

>

> Gotcha. There's like 18 pages at this point so im not reading all of that but it is definitely interesting to know. As a teacher myself, part of my pre-lesson questionnaire includes physical limitations. The PGA of America spends a good chunk of time with their apprentices regarding body movement and physical limitation so the fact that he went to multiple professionals and none were able to work around his physical limitations is a little concerning to me.

>

> There should be many many professionals who are great at teaching golfers who have limitations. That is part of the great part about golf, you can play even if you are old or not fully healthy! Good luck in the journey to the OP, and hopefully it all works out. Wish i could play that much, I am jealous!

 

No offense but if I’m looking for an instructor I’m not concerned one iota if he’s a PGA professional. I’m concerned with his teaching results. In fact all else equal id probably take the guy not pga certified just based on prior experience.

 

 

[CaddiesFault]

> @jut111 said:

> > @CaddiesFault said:

> > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > > @CaddiesFault said:

> > > > Take a lesson from a trusted PGA professional. tell him your goal and that you need a couple things to work on. You will reap the benefits with the amount you are able to practice!

> > > If this thread has been useful for anything, it's because it stands as a complete refutation of that line of thinking.

> > >

> > > If you had read from the beginning, you would have seen the following: 1) he started with a teacher; 2) he went to a second teacher to confirm what the first teacher was telling him; 3) he got injured following the teacher's advice; 4) he discovered significant orthopedic imbalances that prevented him from implementing any teaching, regardless of the source; 5) he started rehab three time a week to improve his imbalances; 6) he focused on his putting and short game; and 7) he implemented a body-friendly long game method he previously learned that allowed him to stay on the golf course and avoid penalties. The result is that he cut his handicap in half in less than three months and is now regularly shooting in the mid-70s.

> > >

> > > There's a tremendous lesson in this experience for all of us. Personally, I'll be interested to see where he goes from here.

> > >

> >

> > Gotcha. There's like 18 pages at this point so im not reading all of that but it is definitely interesting to know. As a teacher myself, part of my pre-lesson questionnaire includes physical limitations. The PGA of America spends a good chunk of time with their apprentices regarding body movement and physical limitation so the fact that he went to multiple professionals and none were able to work around his physical limitations is a little concerning to me.

> >

> > There should be many many professionals who are great at teaching golfers who have limitations. That is part of the great part about golf, you can play even if you are old or not fully healthy! Good luck in the journey to the OP, and hopefully it all works out. Wish i could play that much, I am jealous!

>

> No offense but if I’m looking for an instructor I’m not concerned one iota if he’s a PGA professional. I’m concerned with his teaching results. In fact all else equal id probably take the guy not pga certified just based on prior experience.

>

>

 

Well sure, but most of them are. Im just saying that teachers in general should be able to work around limitations and its concerning that they cant. I guess i shouldnt have triggered you by mentioning the PGA, so sorry again. Its part of the reason many people play golf, because they cant play other sports anymore! Good luck to the OP...

[oikos1]

> @grantc79 said:

> Side note, he personally believes Tiger Woods suffered his issues due to the same things. You get imbalanced from rotating hard one way your whole life like Tiger and then rather than fix your imbalances Tiger chose to train with Navy Seals and do some Olympic lifts. Next thing you know his Achilles pops, his back needs fusions, and a million other issues because at some point you have to FIX your body back to neutral and rather than do that he just added a ton of muscle.

>

> I went through a heavy weight lifting binge about 3 years ago and got pretty big and jacked. One day in the gym on chest day I completely fried my shoulder, neck, and back.

> Guess which side, right side.

> Guess which hip I got issues with, left side.

> Guess what my spine does, points slightly right at the bottom because the left side of my pelvis wants to point that way and down.

> That means as my spine moves up it then wants to unwind that and compensate by pointing left towards the top in an attempt to straighten out my body.

> That leads to less right shoulder immobility due to the spine pointing left towards the top.

> That leads to injuries.

 

This adds an interesting, and no question challenging, twist to your journey.

[grantc79]

> @CaddiesFault said:

> Gotcha. There's like 18 pages at this point so im not reading all of that but it is definitely interesting to know. As a teacher myself, part of my pre-lesson questionnaire includes physical limitations. The PGA of America spends a good chunk of time with their apprentices regarding body movement and physical limitation so the fact that he went to multiple professionals and none were able to work around his physical limitations is a little concerning to me.

>

> There should be many many professionals who are great at teaching golfers who have limitations. That is part of the great part about golf, you can play even if you are old or not fully healthy! Good luck in the journey to the OP, and hopefully it all works out. Wish i could play that much, I am jealous!

 

Honestly, I think what I have learned about my body going through the issues is waaaay beyond the pay grade of any PGA Professional.

 

I'm not saying that a PGA professional doesn't understand a bad back and how that can effect the golf swing. I'm saying they might not understand the entire complexity of the human anatomy and how one issue can effect another. Many of them know just enough to get themselves in trouble when it comes to human anatomy.

 

Let me give you a perfect example, stay with me this will get a little bit deep. Many people will tend to have a bow in the bottom of their backs where the pelvis is tilted forward or rotated downward, a lot of people overweight specifically have this issue. When this happens your hamstrings become STRETCHED because they attach to the back of their pelvis.

 

I have this issue which is what I'm working through.

My local **TPI certified** fitness person immediately diagnosed me with hamstrings that were too TIGHT and wanted to STRETCH my hamstrings out.

 

So my pelvis is rotated forward/down, pinching a nerve in my spine, making it impossible for me to activate certain muscles and correctly rotate. My pelvis being rotated forward/down is stretching out my hamstrings.

 

Guess what she did. Started stretching out my hamstrings, creating MORE SLACK in them, allowing my pelvis to get EVEN MORE out of alignment causing EVEN MORE problems. That is when my back started really giving my issues is when I saw her for a few weeks.

 

What is solving my problems and the main daily physical workout that I am doing which is solving my problem is TIGHTENING/STRENGTHENING my hamstrings EVEN MORE which will get the pelvis to a neutral position which will in turn leave my hamstrings no longer STRETCHED.

 

[grantc79]

> @oikos1 said:

 

>

> This adds an interesting, and no question challenging, twist to your journey.

 

If nothing else, its made me work on a lot more swing fundamentals, short game, and wedges.

 

The days of spending 30 minute sessions nuking drives and long irons are gone for now.

[Soloman1]

There's a long list of people hurt by TPI, including tour players.

[northgolf]

I don't trust athletic trainers with my back. I have my ortho diagnose and prescribe rehab with the PT he trusts ( bulging L5 since my mid thirties, sciatica about 2 years ago when I lapsed on my excercises ). I was surprised by the number of local PTs he thought were total quacks. He has also told me which golf specific trainers and pros had multiple students who ended up seeing him. He pretty much wiped out all the local golf specific trainers. He also trashed two of the local "golf performance " centers for having teens and twenty somethings ending up in his office for back, RSIs, or tendon damage, which he felt was inexcusable incompetence.

 

The people he liked focused on building towards balanced development and overall general fitness. With young people, he wanted them learning multiple sports and not specializing until late teens at the earliest.

[hoselpalooza]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @CaddiesFault said:

> > Gotcha. There's like 18 pages at this point so im not reading all of that but it is definitely interesting to know. As a teacher myself, part of my pre-lesson questionnaire includes physical limitations. The PGA of America spends a good chunk of time with their apprentices regarding body movement and physical limitation so the fact that he went to multiple professionals and none were able to work around his physical limitations is a little concerning to me.

> >

> > There should be many many professionals who are great at teaching golfers who have limitations. That is part of the great part about golf, you can play even if you are old or not fully healthy! Good luck in the journey to the OP, and hopefully it all works out. Wish i could play that much, I am jealous!

>

> Honestly, I think what I have learned about my body going through the issues is waaaay beyond the pay grade of any PGA Professional.

>

> I'm not saying that a PGA professional doesn't understand a bad back and how that can effect the golf swing. I'm saying they might not understand the entire complexity of the human anatomy and how one issue can effect another. Many of them know just enough to get themselves in trouble when it comes to human anatomy.

>

> Let me give you a perfect example, stay with me this will get a little bit deep. Many people will tend to have a bow in the bottom of their backs where the pelvis is tilted forward or rotated downward, a lot of people overweight specifically have this issue. When this happens your hamstrings become STRETCHED because they attach to the back of their pelvis.

>

>

> I have this issue which is what I'm working through.

> My local **TPI certified** fitness person immediately diagnosed me with hamstrings that were too TIGHT and wanted to STRETCH my hamstrings out.

>

> So my pelvis is rotated forward/down, pinching a nerve in my spine, making it impossible for me to activate certain muscles and correctly rotate. My pelvis being rotated forward/down is stretching out my hamstrings.

>

> Guess what she did. Started stretching out my hamstrings, creating MORE SLACK in them, allowing my pelvis to get EVEN MORE out of alignment causing EVEN MORE problems. That is when my back started really giving my issues is when I saw her for a few weeks.

>

> What is solving my problems and the main daily physical workout that I am doing which is solving my problem is TIGHTENING/STRENGTHENING my hamstrings EVEN MORE which will get the pelvis to a neutral position which will in turn leave my hamstrings no longer STRETCHED.

>

 

@grantc79 -- have you received x-rays or an MRI recently? i know people who have too much anterior pelvic tilt because of structural issues with the spine (e.g. spondylolisthesis). highly recommend going to an ortho to check out your spine if you haven't already. and for rehab you may want to consider finding a PhD physiotherapist who's had success with golfers.

[grantc79]

> @hoselpalooza said:

>

> @grantc79 -- have you received x-rays or an MRI recently? i know people who have too much anterior pelvic tilt because of structural issues with the spine (e.g. spondylolisthesis). highly recommend going to an ortho to check out your spine if you haven't already. and for rehab you may want to consider finding a PhD physiotherapist who's had success with golfers.

 

Yes I had an MRI and X Rays done about 6 months ago. They revealed L5S1 (I think it was) mild herniation but with the pelvis tilting forward and to the right a little bit it was causing my spine to pinch a nerve which was causing some nerve pain.

 

That is what prompted me to start the physical therapy and work on getting more neutral.

[D0ch0l1d4y]

> @"rich s" said:

> > @grantc79 said:

>

> This is literally the greatest moment of my life. I tried to stay away and save this for winter like I did with peanut butter crunch bars but I’m 220 for a reason.

 

I'm 11 pages into this thread, reading chronologically, just after a vasectomy. Literally got off the table under 3 hours ago.

 

This comment made me laugh so hard I was worried I'd pop something loose.

[rich_s2]

> @D0ch0l1d4y said:

> > @"rich s" said:

> > > @grantc79 said:

> >

> > This is literally the greatest moment of my life. I tried to stay away and save this for winter like I did with peanut butter crunch bars but I’m 220 for a reason.

>

> I'm 11 pages into this thread, reading chronologically, just after a vasectomy. Literally got off the table under 3 hours ago.

>

> This comment made me laugh so hard I was worried I'd pop something loose.

 

it was something of a train wreck when I made that comment. Since then Grant is on a good path and seeing some massive improvements and I am rooting for him. I am hungry fro a Peanut Butter Crunch bar though...congrats on the lack of sperm!

[D0ch0l1d4y]

> @"rich s" said:

> > @D0ch0l1d4y said:

> > > @"rich s" said:

> > > > @grantc79 said:

> > >

> > > This is literally the greatest moment of my life. I tried to stay away and save this for winter like I did with peanut butter crunch bars but I’m 220 for a reason.

> >

> > I'm 11 pages into this thread, reading chronologically, just after a vasectomy. Literally got off the table under 3 hours ago.

> >

> > This comment made me laugh so hard I was worried I'd pop something loose.

>

> it was something of a train wreck when I made that comment. Since then Grant is on a good path and seeing some massive improvements and I am rooting for him. I am hungry fro a Peanut Butter Crunch bar though...congrats on the lack of sperm!

 

I just finished the 18th page...it's been quite the whirlwind.

 

And the last couple posts hit home for me. I'm a 2.something and have been a 2-4 for the last 10+ years coming up from the +side of scratch in my real early days where I could play a lot of golf.. I have borderline grade 2 spondylolisthesis on L3/4 that has been the bane of my golfing existence. I ended up with, of all things, a Groupon to a small shop here in KC that pointed out that my hips are way under-rotated in my setup. Changing that has made TREMENDOUS strides in almost all things with my swing.

 

Had I known how much all the biomechanical stuff affected my swing back in the day...I'd have been a lot better!

 

Congrats on ALL your progress @grantc79!

[SirFuego]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @CaddiesFault said:

> > Gotcha. There's like 18 pages at this point so im not reading all of that but it is definitely interesting to know. As a teacher myself, part of my pre-lesson questionnaire includes physical limitations. The PGA of America spends a good chunk of time with their apprentices regarding body movement and physical limitation so the fact that he went to multiple professionals and none were able to work around his physical limitations is a little concerning to me.

> >

> > There should be many many professionals who are great at teaching golfers who have limitations. That is part of the great part about golf, you can play even if you are old or not fully healthy! Good luck in the journey to the OP, and hopefully it all works out. Wish i could play that much, I am jealous!

>

> Honestly, I think what I have learned about my body going through the issues is waaaay beyond the pay grade of any PGA Professional.

>

> I'm not saying that a PGA professional doesn't understand a bad back and how that can effect the golf swing. I'm saying they might not understand the entire complexity of the human anatomy and how one issue can effect another. Many of them know just enough to get themselves in trouble when it comes to human anatomy.

>

> Let me give you a perfect example, stay with me this will get a little bit deep. Many people will tend to have a bow in the bottom of their backs where the pelvis is tilted forward or rotated downward, a lot of people overweight specifically have this issue. When this happens your hamstrings become STRETCHED because they attach to the back of their pelvis.

>

>

> I have this issue which is what I'm working through.

> My local **TPI certified** fitness person immediately diagnosed me with hamstrings that were too TIGHT and wanted to STRETCH my hamstrings out.

>

> So my pelvis is rotated forward/down, pinching a nerve in my spine, making it impossible for me to activate certain muscles and correctly rotate. My pelvis being rotated forward/down is stretching out my hamstrings.

>

> Guess what she did. Started stretching out my hamstrings, creating MORE SLACK in them, allowing my pelvis to get EVEN MORE out of alignment causing EVEN MORE problems. That is when my back started really giving my issues is when I saw her for a few weeks.

>

> What is solving my problems and the main daily physical workout that I am doing which is solving my problem is TIGHTENING/STRENGTHENING my hamstrings EVEN MORE which will get the pelvis to a neutral position which will in turn leave my hamstrings no longer STRETCHED.

>

 

Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't stretching your hip flexors also help your situation?

[ALIF]

I had a grade 2 spondylolisthesis @ L5-S1 since I was 17. I am 49 now. Nine months ago I had a L5 S1 spinal fusion (ALIF w/ anterior and posterior instrumentation). I also happen to be a physician and surgeon. The only person I trust to give me any advice about my back is my spine surgeon. I am doing all my own rehabilitation and therapy myself. I don’t trust anyone else to give me advice. I’ve seen too much bad advice given out by people who are supposed to be medical professionals. My goal is to only have one back surgery my entire life. If I have to undergone another one, I’ll have no one to blame but myself. So, for all you people out there with injuries going to the certified trainers, physical therapist, etc., buyer beware.

[MountainGoat]

> @SirFuego said:

> > @grantc79 said:

> > > @CaddiesFault said:

> > > Gotcha. There's like 18 pages at this point so im not reading all of that but it is definitely interesting to know. As a teacher myself, part of my pre-lesson questionnaire includes physical limitations. The PGA of America spends a good chunk of time with their apprentices regarding body movement and physical limitation so the fact that he went to multiple professionals and none were able to work around his physical limitations is a little concerning to me.

> > >

> > > There should be many many professionals who are great at teaching golfers who have limitations. That is part of the great part about golf, you can play even if you are old or not fully healthy! Good luck in the journey to the OP, and hopefully it all works out. Wish i could play that much, I am jealous!

> >

> > Honestly, I think what I have learned about my body going through the issues is waaaay beyond the pay grade of any PGA Professional.

> >

> > I'm not saying that a PGA professional doesn't understand a bad back and how that can effect the golf swing. I'm saying they might not understand the entire complexity of the human anatomy and how one issue can effect another. Many of them know just enough to get themselves in trouble when it comes to human anatomy.

> >

> > Let me give you a perfect example, stay with me this will get a little bit deep. Many people will tend to have a bow in the bottom of their backs where the pelvis is tilted forward or rotated downward, a lot of people overweight specifically have this issue. When this happens your hamstrings become STRETCHED because they attach to the back of their pelvis.

> >

> >

> > I have this issue which is what I'm working through.

> > My local **TPI certified** fitness person immediately diagnosed me with hamstrings that were too TIGHT and wanted to STRETCH my hamstrings out.

> >

> > So my pelvis is rotated forward/down, pinching a nerve in my spine, making it impossible for me to activate certain muscles and correctly rotate. My pelvis being rotated forward/down is stretching out my hamstrings.

> >

> > Guess what she did. Started stretching out my hamstrings, creating MORE SLACK in them, allowing my pelvis to get EVEN MORE out of alignment causing EVEN MORE problems. That is when my back started really giving my issues is when I saw her for a few weeks.

> >

> > What is solving my problems and the main daily physical workout that I am doing which is solving my problem is TIGHTENING/STRENGTHENING my hamstrings EVEN MORE which will get the pelvis to a neutral position which will in turn leave my hamstrings no longer STRETCHED.

> >

>

> Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't stretching your hip flexors also help your situation?

 

Stretching is a lot less effective that commonly thought, and a lot of old-school techniques taught by sports coaches accomplish nothing. There's a fair amount of contemporary science on this, but here's a brief discussion:

 

https://www.livescience.com/48744-how-does-stretching-work.html

[SirFuego]

> @MountainGoat said:

> > @SirFuego said:

> > > @grantc79 said:

> > > > @CaddiesFault said:

> > > > Gotcha. There's like 18 pages at this point so im not reading all of that but it is definitely interesting to know. As a teacher myself, part of my pre-lesson questionnaire includes physical limitations. The PGA of America spends a good chunk of time with their apprentices regarding body movement and physical limitation so the fact that he went to multiple professionals and none were able to work around his physical limitations is a little concerning to me.

> > > >

> > > > There should be many many professionals who are great at teaching golfers who have limitations. That is part of the great part about golf, you can play even if you are old or not fully healthy! Good luck in the journey to the OP, and hopefully it all works out. Wish i could play that much, I am jealous!

> > >

> > > Honestly, I think what I have learned about my body going through the issues is waaaay beyond the pay grade of any PGA Professional.

> > >

> > > I'm not saying that a PGA professional doesn't understand a bad back and how that can effect the golf swing. I'm saying they might not understand the entire complexity of the human anatomy and how one issue can effect another. Many of them know just enough to get themselves in trouble when it comes to human anatomy.

> > >

> > > Let me give you a perfect example, stay with me this will get a little bit deep. Many people will tend to have a bow in the bottom of their backs where the pelvis is tilted forward or rotated downward, a lot of people overweight specifically have this issue. When this happens your hamstrings become STRETCHED because they attach to the back of their pelvis.

> > >

> > >

> > > I have this issue which is what I'm working through.

> > > My local **TPI certified** fitness person immediately diagnosed me with hamstrings that were too TIGHT and wanted to STRETCH my hamstrings out.

> > >

> > > So my pelvis is rotated forward/down, pinching a nerve in my spine, making it impossible for me to activate certain muscles and correctly rotate. My pelvis being rotated forward/down is stretching out my hamstrings.

> > >

> > > Guess what she did. Started stretching out my hamstrings, creating MORE SLACK in them, allowing my pelvis to get EVEN MORE out of alignment causing EVEN MORE problems. That is when my back started really giving my issues is when I saw her for a few weeks.

> > >

> > > What is solving my problems and the main daily physical workout that I am doing which is solving my problem is TIGHTENING/STRENGTHENING my hamstrings EVEN MORE which will get the pelvis to a neutral position which will in turn leave my hamstrings no longer STRETCHED.

> > >

> >

> > Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't stretching your hip flexors also help your situation?

>

> Stretching is a lot less effective that commonly thought, and a lot of old-school techniques taught by sports coaches accomplish nothing. There's a fair amount of contemporary science on this, but here's a brief discussion:

>

> https://www.livescience.com/48744-how-does-stretching-work.html

Sorry I worded that question poorly. I meant "stretch" as the opposite of "tight" like in the context of his picture. I wasn't necessarily referring to the physical act of static stretching.

 

Perhaps "improving range of motion" is a better term. My understanding is that as the hamstring tightens/strengthens, the hip flexor will need to "stretch" (reduce tightness/tension) to move the pelvis back into neutral position. This might happen, to some extent at least, naturally as the hamstring pulls on the pelvis as it gets stronger/tighter, but wouldn't improving range of motion on the hip flexor also help with the issue?

 

I understand that there needs to be some tightness or the joint wouldn't be stable but it just seems like a game of cat and mouse if only one side is "fixed" but the other side (or any other contributing muscle) isn't.

 

 

[grantc79]

> @SirFuego said:

 

>

> Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't stretching your hip flexors also help your situation?

 

Honestly, thats a great question for a PT but I believe I remembered them being currently over stretched as well.

 

So basically if I get my pelvis in proper position the currently stretched muscles will be able to relax. So realistically stretching the hip flexor, just like the hamstrings will not solve the problem.

[grantc79]

> @SirFuego said:

 

> > > Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't stretching your hip flexors also help your situation?

> >

> > Stretching is a lot less effective that commonly thought, and a lot of old-school techniques taught by sports coaches accomplish nothing. There's a fair amount of contemporary science on this, but here's a brief discussion:

> >

> > https://www.livescience.com/48744-how-does-stretching-work.html

> Sorry I worded that question poorly. I meant "stretch" as the opposite of "tight" like in the context of his picture. I wasn't necessarily referring to the physical act of static stretching.

>

> Perhaps "improving range of motion" is a better term. My understanding is that as the hamstring tightens/strengthens, the hip flexor will need to "stretch" (reduce tightness/tension) to move the pelvis back into neutral position. This might happen, to some extent at least, naturally as the hamstring pulls on the pelvis as it gets stronger/tighter, but wouldn't improving range of motion on the hip flexor also help with the issue?

>

> I understand that there needs to be some tightness or the joint wouldn't be stable but it just seems like a game of cat and mouse if only one side is "fixed" but the other side (or any other contributing muscle) isn't.

>

>

 

Honestly, I can give you my basic regimen.

 

Show up, stretch calves, stretch hip flexors.

 

Activate left hamstring through specific excercises.

Activate right glute.....

Activate left groin.....

 

All the time I'm doing this I have to force myself into a neutral pelvis position meaning not tucked butt, not arched, hips horizontally level.

 

Then try to activate glute and groin at the same time and manipulate certain movements. I have improved a lot but its still tough sledding.

[MountainGoat]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > > @northgolf said:

> > > Goat,

> > > You can look his scores up on ghin using name/state. Everything you need to know, you quoted. A bunch of mid/low 70s for the last 5.

> >

> > I don't have a username or password for that system. I just want to continue the curve I started in post #464.

>

> H 9/15/19 76 71.1/125 4.4 Tchefuncta Country Club Tchefu

> H 9/13/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> H 9/12/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> A 9/7/19 75 73.7/136 1.1 Money Hill Golf and Country Cl

> C 9/6/19 73 72.1/129 0.8 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> H 9/5/19 76 72.0/132 3.4 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> A 9/1/19 81 71.1/125 8.9 Tchefuncta Country Club Tchefu

> H 8/20/19 81 72.0/132 7.7 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> A 8/16/19 81 72.3/130 7.6 Hot Springs Village Cortez Gol

> C 8/13/19 80 72.2/129 6.8 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> H 8/11/19 81 72.1/133 7.6 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> H 8/9/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> A 8/6/19 76 71.0/126 4.5 Grand Ridge Golf Club Grand Ri

> H 8/1/19 81 72.1/133 7.6 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> H 7/28/19 82 72.0/132 8.6 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> H 7/28/19 90 72.0/132 15.4 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> C 7/24/19 81 72.0/128 7.9 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> C 7/23/19 79 72.2/129 6.0 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> H 7/11/19 86 72.1/133 11.8 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> C 7/10/19 77 72.2/129 4.2 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

 

How’s this project coming along? Willing to share your scores for the last month so I can update my graph?

[grantc79]

> @MountainGoat said:

> > @grantc79 said:

> > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > > @northgolf said:

> > > > Goat,

> > > > You can look his scores up on ghin using name/state. Everything you need to know, you quoted. A bunch of mid/low 70s for the last 5.

> > >

> > > I don't have a username or password for that system. I just want to continue the curve I started in post #464.

> >

> > H 9/15/19 76 71.1/125 4.4 Tchefuncta Country Club Tchefu

> > H 9/13/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > H 9/12/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > A 9/7/19 75 73.7/136 1.1 Money Hill Golf and Country Cl

> > C 9/6/19 73 72.1/129 0.8 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > H 9/5/19 76 72.0/132 3.4 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > A 9/1/19 81 71.1/125 8.9 Tchefuncta Country Club Tchefu

> > H 8/20/19 81 72.0/132 7.7 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > A 8/16/19 81 72.3/130 7.6 Hot Springs Village Cortez Gol

> > C 8/13/19 80 72.2/129 6.8 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > H 8/11/19 81 72.1/133 7.6 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > H 8/9/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > A 8/6/19 76 71.0/126 4.5 Grand Ridge Golf Club Grand Ri

> > H 8/1/19 81 72.1/133 7.6 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > H 7/28/19 82 72.0/132 8.6 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > H 7/28/19 90 72.0/132 15.4 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > C 7/24/19 81 72.0/128 7.9 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > C 7/23/19 79 72.2/129 6.0 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > H 7/11/19 86 72.1/133 11.8 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > C 7/10/19 77 72.2/129 4.2 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

>

> How’s this project coming along? Willing to share your scores for the last month so I can update my graph?

 

Only played once so far this month.

 

I have played more, but sparsely really just doing 3 or 4 holes here and there.

 

My one round was a 79 at Tchefuncta Country Club which is now where my home course is.

 

Work and Physical Therapy is eating me up. Lesson tomorrow though.

 

 

My index went up .3 this month I am now at a 3.5

[MountainGoat]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > > @grantc79 said:

> > > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > > > @northgolf said:

> > > > > Goat,

> > > > > You can look his scores up on ghin using name/state. Everything you need to know, you quoted. A bunch of mid/low 70s for the last 5.

> > > >

> > > > I don't have a username or password for that system. I just want to continue the curve I started in post #464.

> > >

> > > H 9/15/19 76 71.1/125 4.4 Tchefuncta Country Club Tchefu

> > > H 9/13/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > H 9/12/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > A 9/7/19 75 73.7/136 1.1 Money Hill Golf and Country Cl

> > > C 9/6/19 73 72.1/129 0.8 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > H 9/5/19 76 72.0/132 3.4 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > A 9/1/19 81 71.1/125 8.9 Tchefuncta Country Club Tchefu

> > > H 8/20/19 81 72.0/132 7.7 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > A 8/16/19 81 72.3/130 7.6 Hot Springs Village Cortez Gol

> > > C 8/13/19 80 72.2/129 6.8 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > H 8/11/19 81 72.1/133 7.6 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > H 8/9/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > A 8/6/19 76 71.0/126 4.5 Grand Ridge Golf Club Grand Ri

> > > H 8/1/19 81 72.1/133 7.6 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > H 7/28/19 82 72.0/132 8.6 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > H 7/28/19 90 72.0/132 15.4 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > C 7/24/19 81 72.0/128 7.9 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > C 7/23/19 79 72.2/129 6.0 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > H 7/11/19 86 72.1/133 11.8 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > C 7/10/19 77 72.2/129 4.2 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> >

> > How’s this project coming along? Willing to share your scores for the last month so I can update my graph?

>

> Only played once so far this month.

>

> I have played more, but sparsely really just doing 3 or 4 holes here and there.

>

> My one round was a 79 at Tchefuncta Country Club which is now where my home course is.

>

> Work and Physical Therapy is eating me up. Lesson tomorrow though.

>

>

> My index went up .3 this month I am now at a 3.5

Well, I'm very sorry to hear that. I thought you gave up work. Your thread was the only improvement blog where we had actual performance numbers rather than narrative highlights of successes. It also spoke to some fundamental issues about the limits of improvement and the role of instruction. I'm not surprised to hear about the physical issues. Frankly, that concern was the source of my comment back in post #26. Good luck with the therapy, and I hope your health improves.

 

 

 

 

[oikos1]

Bummer. Unfortunately, the "one year full time golfer job" experiment has become tainted. I wish you well in your quest for scratch or better.

[grantc79]

> @MountainGoat said:

> > @grantc79 said:

> > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > > @grantc79 said:

> > > > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > > > > @northgolf said:

> > > > > > Goat,

> > > > > > You can look his scores up on ghin using name/state. Everything you need to know, you quoted. A bunch of mid/low 70s for the last 5.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't have a username or password for that system. I just want to continue the curve I started in post #464.

> > > >

> > > > H 9/15/19 76 71.1/125 4.4 Tchefuncta Country Club Tchefu

> > > > H 9/13/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > H 9/12/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > A 9/7/19 75 73.7/136 1.1 Money Hill Golf and Country Cl

> > > > C 9/6/19 73 72.1/129 0.8 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > H 9/5/19 76 72.0/132 3.4 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > A 9/1/19 81 71.1/125 8.9 Tchefuncta Country Club Tchefu

> > > > H 8/20/19 81 72.0/132 7.7 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > A 8/16/19 81 72.3/130 7.6 Hot Springs Village Cortez Gol

> > > > C 8/13/19 80 72.2/129 6.8 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > H 8/11/19 81 72.1/133 7.6 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > H 8/9/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > A 8/6/19 76 71.0/126 4.5 Grand Ridge Golf Club Grand Ri

> > > > H 8/1/19 81 72.1/133 7.6 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > H 7/28/19 82 72.0/132 8.6 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > H 7/28/19 90 72.0/132 15.4 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > C 7/24/19 81 72.0/128 7.9 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > C 7/23/19 79 72.2/129 6.0 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > H 7/11/19 86 72.1/133 11.8 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > C 7/10/19 77 72.2/129 4.2 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > >

> > > How’s this project coming along? Willing to share your scores for the last month so I can update my graph?

> >

> > Only played once so far this month.

> >

> > I have played more, but sparsely really just doing 3 or 4 holes here and there.

> >

> > My one round was a 79 at Tchefuncta Country Club which is now where my home course is.

> >

> > Work and Physical Therapy is eating me up. Lesson tomorrow though.

> >

> >

> > My index went up .3 this month I am now at a 3.5

> Well, I'm very sorry to hear that. I thought you gave up work. Your thread was the only improvement blog where we had actual performance numbers rather than narrative highlights of successes. It also spoke to some fundamental issues about the limits of improvement and the role of instruction. I'm not surprised to hear about the physical issues. Frankly, that concern was the source of my comment back in post #26. Good luck with the therapy, and I hope your health improves.

>

>

>

>

 

@oikos1 said:

> Bummer. Unfortunately, the "one year full time golfer job" experiment has become tainted. I wish you well in your quest for scratch or better.

 

Yall act like I died or gave up the game, definitely not giving up the goal I still have 9 more months or so left to pull it off.

 

I have a lesson today and we will see how that goes, I am finding the more upright I stand the easier it is to stay pelvic neutral throughout the swing, which keeps me rotating through impact, more lag, better face control, etc.

 

At the beginning of this if I thought I would have been a 3.5 at this stage I would have been thrilled.

 

 

[MountainGoat]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > > @grantc79 said:

> > > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > > > @grantc79 said:

> > > > > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > > > > > @northgolf said:

> > > > > > > Goat,

> > > > > > > You can look his scores up on ghin using name/state. Everything you need to know, you quoted. A bunch of mid/low 70s for the last 5.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't have a username or password for that system. I just want to continue the curve I started in post #464.

> > > > >

> > > > > H 9/15/19 76 71.1/125 4.4 Tchefuncta Country Club Tchefu

> > > > > H 9/13/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > H 9/12/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > A 9/7/19 75 73.7/136 1.1 Money Hill Golf and Country Cl

> > > > > C 9/6/19 73 72.1/129 0.8 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > H 9/5/19 76 72.0/132 3.4 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > A 9/1/19 81 71.1/125 8.9 Tchefuncta Country Club Tchefu

> > > > > H 8/20/19 81 72.0/132 7.7 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > A 8/16/19 81 72.3/130 7.6 Hot Springs Village Cortez Gol

> > > > > C 8/13/19 80 72.2/129 6.8 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > H 8/11/19 81 72.1/133 7.6 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > H 8/9/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > A 8/6/19 76 71.0/126 4.5 Grand Ridge Golf Club Grand Ri

> > > > > H 8/1/19 81 72.1/133 7.6 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > H 7/28/19 82 72.0/132 8.6 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > H 7/28/19 90 72.0/132 15.4 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > C 7/24/19 81 72.0/128 7.9 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > C 7/23/19 79 72.2/129 6.0 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > H 7/11/19 86 72.1/133 11.8 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > C 7/10/19 77 72.2/129 4.2 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > >

> > > > How’s this project coming along? Willing to share your scores for the last month so I can update my graph?

> > >

> > > Only played once so far this month.

> > >

> > > I have played more, but sparsely really just doing 3 or 4 holes here and there.

> > >

> > > My one round was a 79 at Tchefuncta Country Club which is now where my home course is.

> > >

> > > Work and Physical Therapy is eating me up. Lesson tomorrow though.

> > >

> > >

> > > My index went up .3 this month I am now at a 3.5

> > Well, I'm very sorry to hear that. I thought you gave up work. Your thread was the only improvement blog where we had actual performance numbers rather than narrative highlights of successes. It also spoke to some fundamental issues about the limits of improvement and the role of instruction. I'm not surprised to hear about the physical issues. Frankly, that concern was the source of my comment back in post #26. Good luck with the therapy, and I hope your health improves.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> @oikos1 said:

> > Bummer. Unfortunately, the "one year full time golfer job" experiment has become tainted. I wish you well in your quest for scratch or better.

>

> Yall act like I died or gave up the game...

 

I can’t speak for oikos1, but the history of my posts would reveals that after my initial prediction, I’ve been pretty supportive.

[Krt22]

> @oikos1 said:

> Bummer. Unfortunately, the "one year full time golfer job" experiment has become tainted. I wish you well in your quest for scratch or better.

 

In that sense, it becomes a more authentic Paper Tiger journey.

[Krt22]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > > @grantc79 said:

> > > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > > > @grantc79 said:

> > > > > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > > > > > @northgolf said:

> > > > > > > Goat,

> > > > > > > You can look his scores up on ghin using name/state. Everything you need to know, you quoted. A bunch of mid/low 70s for the last 5.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't have a username or password for that system. I just want to continue the curve I started in post #464.

> > > > >

> > > > > H 9/15/19 76 71.1/125 4.4 Tchefuncta Country Club Tchefu

> > > > > H 9/13/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > H 9/12/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > A 9/7/19 75 73.7/136 1.1 Money Hill Golf and Country Cl

> > > > > C 9/6/19 73 72.1/129 0.8 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > H 9/5/19 76 72.0/132 3.4 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > A 9/1/19 81 71.1/125 8.9 Tchefuncta Country Club Tchefu

> > > > > H 8/20/19 81 72.0/132 7.7 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > A 8/16/19 81 72.3/130 7.6 Hot Springs Village Cortez Gol

> > > > > C 8/13/19 80 72.2/129 6.8 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > H 8/11/19 81 72.1/133 7.6 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > H 8/9/19 76 72.1/133 3.3 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > A 8/6/19 76 71.0/126 4.5 Grand Ridge Golf Club Grand Ri

> > > > > H 8/1/19 81 72.1/133 7.6 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > H 7/28/19 82 72.0/132 8.6 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > H 7/28/19 90 72.0/132 15.4 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > C 7/24/19 81 72.0/128 7.9 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > C 7/23/19 79 72.2/129 6.0 Beau Chene Country Club Oak Co

> > > > > H 7/11/19 86 72.1/133 11.8 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > > > C 7/10/19 77 72.2/129 4.2 Beau Chene Country Club Magnol

> > > >

> > > > How’s this project coming along? Willing to share your scores for the last month so I can update my graph?

> > >

> > > Only played once so far this month.

> > >

> > > I have played more, but sparsely really just doing 3 or 4 holes here and there.

> > >

> > > My one round was a 79 at Tchefuncta Country Club which is now where my home course is.

> > >

> > > Work and Physical Therapy is eating me up. Lesson tomorrow though.

> > >

> > >

> > > My index went up .3 this month I am now at a 3.5

> > Well, I'm very sorry to hear that. I thought you gave up work. Your thread was the only improvement blog where we had actual performance numbers rather than narrative highlights of successes. It also spoke to some fundamental issues about the limits of improvement and the role of instruction. I'm not surprised to hear about the physical issues. Frankly, that concern was the source of my comment back in post #26. Good luck with the therapy, and I hope your health improves.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> @oikos1 said:

> > Bummer. Unfortunately, the "one year full time golfer job" experiment has become tainted. I wish you well in your quest for scratch or better.

>

> Yall act like I died or gave up the game, definitely not giving up the goal I still have 9 more months or so left to pull it off.

>

> I have a lesson today and we will see how that goes, I am finding the more upright I stand the easier it is to stay pelvic neutral throughout the swing, which keeps me rotating through impact, more lag, better face control, etc.

>

> At the beginning of this if I thought I would have been a 3.5 at this stage I would have been thrilled.

>

>

 

Did you possibly setup with too much anterior pelvic tilt before?