Best driver .............ever

bscinstnct · August 27, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > >

> > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > >

> > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > >

> > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > >

> > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > >

> > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > >

> > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> >

> > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> >

> > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> >

>

> "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

“The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

-Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

LICC · August 27, 2019

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > >

> > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > >

> > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > >

> > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > >

> > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > >

> > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> >

> > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> >

> > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

>

> I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

>

> Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

You think Jack didn’t know the yardages on the courses he played?

LICC · August 27, 2019

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > > >

> > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > > >

> > > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > > >

> > > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> > >

> > > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> > >

> > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > >

> >

> > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

>

> “The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

>

> -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

>

> Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

>

Seeing as he hit measured drives of 341 and 320 in the contests, and 340 at Augusta, I would say he is not embellishing.

Christosterone · August 27, 2019

Watch the video I posted...

Trevino says he saw Jack hit it 310 when he needed to...even talked about how jack would brace himself to go at it...

Trevino played with him as much as anyone in history during the height of Jacks power..

If Jack had a modern driver, shaft and all, and a prov1 with his 1971 swing then he would have unequivocally been the best driver ever...as it is, we can say because he was hitting a 7 wood head at 9 degrees with an x400 equivalent shaft and a wound balata ball..

Remember this from cherry hills a few years back...

They were attempting to drive the green ala Arnold Palmer...

None did the entire practice round...Zach Johnson and Fowler hit 3 balls

-Chris

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > > >

> > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > > >

> > > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > > >

> > > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> > >

> > > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> > >

> > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > >

> >

> > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

>

> “The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

>

> -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

>

> Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

>

Ashley Schaeffer · August 27, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > >

> > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > >

> > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > >

> > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > >

> > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > >

> > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > >

> > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > >

> > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> >

> > Knowing how humble he is, it was probably closer to 325.

> > Despite it being an admittedly huge advantage, he just didn't want to do it very often.

>

> So you are calling Jack Nicklaus a liar. Got it.

No, I totally believe him. Where did I call him a liar?

Ashley Schaeffer · August 27, 2019

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > > >

> > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > > >

> > > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > > >

> > > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> > >

> > > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> > >

> > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > >

> >

> > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

>

> “The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

>

> -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

>

> Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

>

A case of "the older I get, the longer I was", perhaps?

bscinstnct · August 27, 2019

> @Christosterone said:

> Watch the video I posted...

> Trevino says he saw Jack hit it 310 when he needed to...even talked about how jack would brace himself to go at it...

>

> Trevino played with him as much as anyone in history during the height of Jacks power..

>

> If Jack had a modern driver, shaft and all, and a prov1 with his 1971 swing then he would have unequivocally been the best driver ever...as it is, we can say because he was hitting a 7 wood head at 9 degrees with an x400 equivalent shaft and a wound balata ball..

>

> Remember this from cherry hills a few years back...

> They were attempting to drive the green ala Arnold Palmer...

> None did the entire practice round...Zach Johnson and Fowler hit 3 balls

>

> -Chris

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > > > >

> > > > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> > > >

> > > > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> > > >

> > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > >

> > >

> > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

> >

> > “The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

> >

> > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> >

> > Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

> >

>

Jack himself says he has to really swing out of his shoes to carry 270.

What do you want to add for modern equipment? 50 yards? 60? Fine.

Let’s say Jack could carry 320 or 330 now if he swung for the fences.

Impressive.

But a lot of guys can do that now.

Christosterone · August 27, 2019

I’m simply quoting Trevino...

Watch the video I posted on page 2...

I didn’t play with jack 65 times in the late 60s-80s....Lee did

-Chris

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @Christosterone said:

> > Watch the video I posted...

> > Trevino says he saw Jack hit it 310 when he needed to...even talked about how jack would brace himself to go at it...

> >

> > Trevino played with him as much as anyone in history during the height of Jacks power..

> >

> > If Jack had a modern driver, shaft and all, and a prov1 with his 1971 swing then he would have unequivocally been the best driver ever...as it is, we can say because he was hitting a 7 wood head at 9 degrees with an x400 equivalent shaft and a wound balata ball..

> >

> > Remember this from cherry hills a few years back...

> > They were attempting to drive the green ala Arnold Palmer...

> > None did the entire practice round...Zach Johnson and Fowler hit 3 balls

> >

> > -Chris

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> > > > >

> > > > > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> > > > >

> > > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

> > >

> > > “The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

> > >

> > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > >

> > > Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

> > >

> >

>

> Jack himself says he has to really swing out of his shoes to carry 270.

>

> What do you want to add for modern equipment? 50 yards? 60? Fine.

>

> Let’s say Jack could carry 320 or 330 now if he swung for the fences.

>

> Impressive.

>

> But a lot of guys can do that now.

>

Night train · August 27, 2019

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/77079-the-most-powerful-player-in-the-history-of-the-game

bscinstnct · August 27, 2019

> @Christosterone said:

> I’m simply quoting Trevino...

> Watch the video I posted on page 2...

> I didn’t play with jack 65 times in the late 60s-80s....Lee did

>

> -Chris

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @Christosterone said:

> > > Watch the video I posted...

> > > Trevino says he saw Jack hit it 310 when he needed to...even talked about how jack would brace himself to go at it...

> > >

> > > Trevino played with him as much as anyone in history during the height of Jacks power..

> > >

> > > If Jack had a modern driver, shaft and all, and a prov1 with his 1971 swing then he would have unequivocally been the best driver ever...as it is, we can say because he was hitting a 7 wood head at 9 degrees with an x400 equivalent shaft and a wound balata ball..

> > >

> > > Remember this from cherry hills a few years back...

> > > They were attempting to drive the green ala Arnold Palmer...

> > > None did the entire practice round...Zach Johnson and Fowler hit 3 balls

> > >

> > > -Chris

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

> > > >

> > > > “The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

> > > >

> > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > >

> > > > Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > Jack himself says he has to really swing out of his shoes to carry 270.

> >

> > What do you want to add for modern equipment? 50 yards? 60? Fine.

> >

> > Let’s say Jack could carry 320 or 330 now if he swung for the fences.

> >

> > Impressive.

> >

> > But a lot of guys can do that now.

> >

>

Chris! I agree that Jack is the greatest driver of the ball and if he played now he would be out there with the longest and likely be the most accurate as well.

But sometimes the hyperbole gets a bit extreme ; )

dpb5031 · August 27, 2019

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @Christosterone said:

> > Watch the video I posted...

> > Trevino says he saw Jack hit it 310 when he needed to...even talked about how jack would brace himself to go at it...

> >

> > Trevino played with him as much as anyone in history during the height of Jacks power..

> >

> > If Jack had a modern driver, shaft and all, and a prov1 with his 1971 swing then he would have unequivocally been the best driver ever...as it is, we can say because he was hitting a 7 wood head at 9 degrees with an x400 equivalent shaft and a wound balata ball..

> >

> > Remember this from cherry hills a few years back...

> > They were attempting to drive the green ala Arnold Palmer...

> > None did the entire practice round...Zach Johnson and Fowler hit 3 balls

> >

> > -Chris

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> > > > >

> > > > > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> > > > >

> > > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

> > >

> > > “The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

> > >

> > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > >

> > > Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

> > >

> >

>

> Jack himself says he has to really swing out of his shoes to carry 270.

>

> What do you want to add for modern equipment? 50 yards? 60? Fine.

>

> Let’s say Jack could carry 320 or 330 now if he swung for the fences.

>

> Impressive.

>

> But a lot of guys can do that now.

The thread is "best driver...ever." Its not who was the longest driver ever.

Distance, accuracy, and the ability to use the driver to hit it longer than the field while also in the fairway, and to do it in-the-clutch to produce wins, is how I'd define it. No one did it better than JN over the course of a full career.

Yuck · August 27, 2019

For the “Total driving stat”, Kenny Perry stayed in the Top 10 most of his 25 years on the regular tour. He was in the top 5 for 9 of those years. He was #2 behind Norman in 1989 and #1 ahead of Norman in 1990. He kept it up more than 2 decades including 3rd at age 49 and 6th at age 50 in 2010. Based on body of work for a career he is an under appreciated driver of the ball.

JD3 · August 27, 2019

> @Christosterone said:

> Just imagine this swing with a graphite shafted 460cc head and proV1....

> He and Johnny Miller would murder the ball...

>

> -Chris

That first swing of JN is incredible and I've seen that video before. With modern equipment, who knows? Close to a legit 380? But driving is not just distance and no one is arguing JN didn't have it in spades when he was younger. Driving also includes accuracy, trajectory control (high, low, leff, right), and ability under pressure. From as far as I can tell JN was lacking in all the non-power categories next to Hogan, Norman, and McIlroy. As is #2 all time majors Tiger Woods

cdnglf · August 27, 2019

Nicklaus isn’t even the best driver...... named Jack

LICC · August 27, 2019

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @Christosterone said:

> > Watch the video I posted...

> > Trevino says he saw Jack hit it 310 when he needed to...even talked about how jack would brace himself to go at it...

> >

> > Trevino played with him as much as anyone in history during the height of Jacks power..

> >

> > If Jack had a modern driver, shaft and all, and a prov1 with his 1971 swing then he would have unequivocally been the best driver ever...as it is, we can say because he was hitting a 7 wood head at 9 degrees with an x400 equivalent shaft and a wound balata ball..

> >

> > Remember this from cherry hills a few years back...

> > They were attempting to drive the green ala Arnold Palmer...

> > None did the entire practice round...Zach Johnson and Fowler hit 3 balls

> >

> > -Chris

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> > > > >

> > > > > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> > > > >

> > > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

> > >

> > > “The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

> > >

> > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > >

> > > Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

> > >

> >

>

> Jack himself says he has to really swing out of his shoes to carry 270.

>

> What do you want to add for modern equipment? 50 yards? 60? Fine.

>

> Let’s say Jack could carry 320 or 330 now if he swung for the fences.

>

> Impressive.

>

> But a lot of guys can do that now.

>

Jack ramped up to 300+ back in the 60s. Fact. Indisputable. Therefore he would bomb it 360+ today when needed

bscinstnct · August 27, 2019

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @Christosterone said:

> > > Watch the video I posted...

> > > Trevino says he saw Jack hit it 310 when he needed to...even talked about how jack would brace himself to go at it...

> > >

> > > Trevino played with him as much as anyone in history during the height of Jacks power..

> > >

> > > If Jack had a modern driver, shaft and all, and a prov1 with his 1971 swing then he would have unequivocally been the best driver ever...as it is, we can say because he was hitting a 7 wood head at 9 degrees with an x400 equivalent shaft and a wound balata ball..

> > >

> > > Remember this from cherry hills a few years back...

> > > They were attempting to drive the green ala Arnold Palmer...

> > > None did the entire practice round...Zach Johnson and Fowler hit 3 balls

> > >

> > > -Chris

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

> > > >

> > > > “The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

> > > >

> > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > >

> > > > Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > Jack himself says he has to really swing out of his shoes to carry 270.

> >

> > What do you want to add for modern equipment? 50 yards? 60? Fine.

> >

> > Let’s say Jack could carry 320 or 330 now if he swung for the fences.

> >

> > Impressive.

> >

> > But a lot of guys can do that now.

>

> The thread is "best driver...ever." Its not who was the longest driver ever.

>

> Distance, accuracy, and the ability to use the driver to hit it longer than the field while also in the fairway, and to do it in-the-clutch to produce wins, is how I'd define it. No one did it better than JN over the course of a full career.

Dpb! Yes, see the post above your reply to me, I agree with you ; )

Christosterone · August 27, 2019

Raise your hand if you’ve played arrow head in Littleton, CO and yelled “POW, liftoff” during the drive follow thru on 4

-Chris

> @cdnglf said:

> Nicklaus isn’t even the best driver...... named Jack

>

cdnglf · August 27, 2019

> @Christosterone said:

> Raise your hand if you’ve played arrow head in Littleton, CO and yelled “POW, liftoff” during the drive follow thru on 4

>

> -Chris

>

> > @cdnglf said:

> > Nicklaus isn’t even the best driver...... named Jack

> >

>

You have given my life new purpose.

Ashley Schaeffer · August 27, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @Christosterone said:

> > > Watch the video I posted...

> > > Trevino says he saw Jack hit it 310 when he needed to...even talked about how jack would brace himself to go at it...

> > >

> > > Trevino played with him as much as anyone in history during the height of Jacks power..

> > >

> > > If Jack had a modern driver, shaft and all, and a prov1 with his 1971 swing then he would have unequivocally been the best driver ever...as it is, we can say because he was hitting a 7 wood head at 9 degrees with an x400 equivalent shaft and a wound balata ball..

> > >

> > > Remember this from cherry hills a few years back...

> > > They were attempting to drive the green ala Arnold Palmer...

> > > None did the entire practice round...Zach Johnson and Fowler hit 3 balls

> > >

> > > -Chris

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

> > > >

> > > > “The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

> > > >

> > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > >

> > > > Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > Jack himself says he has to really swing out of his shoes to carry 270.

> >

> > What do you want to add for modern equipment? 50 yards? 60? Fine.

> >

> > Let’s say Jack could carry 320 or 330 now if he swung for the fences.

> >

> > Impressive.

> >

> > But a lot of guys can do that now.

> >

>

> Jack ramped up to 300+ back in the 60s. Fact. Indisputable. Therefore he would bomb it 360+ today when needed

Math checks out.

But, he’d probably only average just over 300 because “it” was obviously not “needed” more than a few times back then. Just look at all of his driver swings from back then; he’s clearly just smoothing it about 70%, and not swinging for the fences at all.

Dave230 · August 28, 2019

Probably Nicklaus, Rory and Norman are up there.

Rory has been an average wedge player and below average putter for most of this decade and has still been one of the best players in the world consistently. His driving is an enormous advantage that he doesn't always take advantage of. But if you're judging on just driving then he's definitely up there.

The only problem I'd have with Rory as best driver is that I think the gap is less obvious. Most of the best players in the world are good drivers, long and not particularly crooked. DJ is a brilliant driver as well and a few years ago he was driving as well as anyone has ever done, long and straight. Koepka is another fantastic driver, then you have Rahm, Bubba Watson etc. It's arguably easier to be a great driver now.

Young Tiger was also a tremendous driver and 97 Masters might be the best driving performance of all-time. But when you're talking about over a career, there were times when he was very crooked and driving accuracy was clearly the weakest part of his game.

In terms of longest player ever, it's clearly John Daly. In 1997, he averaged 302 yards, Tiger averaged 294 and third was 287. Average was around 267. So 15 yards longer than third, 35 yards longer than average. Cameron Champ is the longest on Tour this season at 317 yards. He's 4 yards longer than third and 23 yards longer than average. Quite a difference.

dpb5031 · August 28, 2019

> @Dave230 said:

> Probably Nicklaus, Rory and Norman are up there.

>

> Rory has been an average wedge player and below average putter for most of this decade and has still been one of the best players in the world consistently. His driving is an enormous advantage that he doesn't always take advantage of. But if you're judging on just driving then he's definitely up there.

>

> The only problem I'd have with Rory as best driver is that I think the gap is less obvious. Most of the best players in the world are good drivers, long and not particularly crooked. DJ is a brilliant driver as well and a few years ago he was driving as well as anyone has ever done, long and straight. Koepka is another fantastic driver, then you have Rahm, Bubba Watson etc. It's arguably easier to be a great driver now.

>

> Young Tiger was also a tremendous driver and 97 Masters might be the best driving performance of all-time. But when you're talking about over a career, there were times when he was very crooked and driving accuracy was clearly the weakest part of his game.

All great points. Anyone can become optimized with today's launch monitors and equipment options. Nothing but trial and error back in the day.

Interestingly, for a few years there ~1997-2003 before he (and everyone) switched over to 460 cc and graphite, Tiger had a massive advantage over the field because of his driving. Most courses were par 68 for him, and par 71 or 72 for most of the field.

LICC · August 28, 2019

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @Christosterone said:

> > > > Watch the video I posted...

> > > > Trevino says he saw Jack hit it 310 when he needed to...even talked about how jack would brace himself to go at it...

> > > >

> > > > Trevino played with him as much as anyone in history during the height of Jacks power..

> > > >

> > > > If Jack had a modern driver, shaft and all, and a prov1 with his 1971 swing then he would have unequivocally been the best driver ever...as it is, we can say because he was hitting a 7 wood head at 9 degrees with an x400 equivalent shaft and a wound balata ball..

> > > >

> > > > Remember this from cherry hills a few years back...

> > > > They were attempting to drive the green ala Arnold Palmer...

> > > > None did the entire practice round...Zach Johnson and Fowler hit 3 balls

> > > >

> > > > -Chris

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

> > > > >

> > > > > “The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

> > > > >

> > > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > > >

> > > > > Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Jack himself says he has to really swing out of his shoes to carry 270.

> > >

> > > What do you want to add for modern equipment? 50 yards? 60? Fine.

> > >

> > > Let’s say Jack could carry 320 or 330 now if he swung for the fences.

> > >

> > > Impressive.

> > >

> > > But a lot of guys can do that now.

> > >

> >

> > Jack ramped up to 300+ back in the 60s. Fact. Indisputable. Therefore he would bomb it 360+ today when needed

>

> Math checks out.

> But, he’d probably only average just over 300 because “it” was obviously not “needed” more than a few times back then. Just look at all of his driver swings from back then; he’s clearly just smoothing it about 70%, and not swinging for the fences at all.

>

He would average 320+ today

Ashley Schaeffer · August 28, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @Christosterone said:

> > > > > Watch the video I posted...

> > > > > Trevino says he saw Jack hit it 310 when he needed to...even talked about how jack would brace himself to go at it...

> > > > >

> > > > > Trevino played with him as much as anyone in history during the height of Jacks power..

> > > > >

> > > > > If Jack had a modern driver, shaft and all, and a prov1 with his 1971 swing then he would have unequivocally been the best driver ever...as it is, we can say because he was hitting a 7 wood head at 9 degrees with an x400 equivalent shaft and a wound balata ball..

> > > > >

> > > > > Remember this from cherry hills a few years back...

> > > > > They were attempting to drive the green ala Arnold Palmer...

> > > > > None did the entire practice round...Zach Johnson and Fowler hit 3 balls

> > > > >

> > > > > -Chris

> > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > "To fly the ball 270 yards through the air, I really have to jump out of my socks"

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to." - Jack Nicklaus, Golf Digest

> > > > > >

> > > > > > “The facts are that I occasionally drive 300 yards or more - but only when I have a tailwind, or a lot of run on the ball, or both."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Seems Jack is embellishing a bit after he retired. Not unusual ; )

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Jack himself says he has to really swing out of his shoes to carry 270.

> > > >

> > > > What do you want to add for modern equipment? 50 yards? 60? Fine.

> > > >

> > > > Let’s say Jack could carry 320 or 330 now if he swung for the fences.

> > > >

> > > > Impressive.

> > > >

> > > > But a lot of guys can do that now.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Jack ramped up to 300+ back in the 60s. Fact. Indisputable. Therefore he would bomb it 360+ today when needed

> >

> > Math checks out.

> > But, he’d probably only average just over 300 because “it” was obviously not “needed” more than a few times back then. Just look at all of his driver swings from back then; he’s clearly just smoothing it about 70%, and not swinging for the fences at all.

> >

> He would average 320+ today

>

I might agree with you, but I would have to know what is needed today. I'm not sure averaging over 320 is needed, so I don't know if he would choose to hit it that far. Sure, it could be the advantage literally every tour pro is chasing, but unless it is needed, Nicklaus wouldn't choose to do it. If, however, it was needed to average 360+, I'm sure he would choose to do it. No doubt in my mind.

tiderider · August 28, 2019

> @Yuck said:

> For the “Total driving stat”, Kenny Perry stayed in the Top 10 most of his 25 years on the regular tour. He was in the top 5 for 9 of those years. He was #2 behind Norman in 1989 and #1 ahead of Norman in 1990. He kept it up more than 2 decades including 3rd at age 49 and 6th at age 50 in 2010. Based on body of work for a career he is an under appreciated driver of the ball.

hey! ... look, everybody ... FACTS! ...

great job, Yuck!

![](https://media3.giphy.com/media/lvOnlEYunAwOkHjgmU/giphy.gif "")

Man_O_War · August 28, 2019

anyone who could hit a balata over 280 and straight

mcputter · August 28, 2019

> Interestingly, for a few years there ~1997-2003 before he (and everyone) switched over to 460 cc and graphite, Tiger had a massive advantage over the field because of his driving. Most courses were par 68 for him, and par 71 or 72 for most of the field.

You left out a minor piece of equipment that changed in the 1997-2003 time frame: the modern golf ball.

mcputter · August 28, 2019

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> I might agree with you, but I would have to know what is needed today. I'm not sure averaging over 320 is needed, so I don't know if he would choose to hit it that far. Sure, it could be the advantage literally every tour pro is chasing, but unless it is needed, Nicklaus wouldn't choose to do it. If, however, it was needed to average 360+, I'm sure he would choose to do it. No doubt in my mind.

I have my doubts.

Jack Nicklaus is probably the best driver of the golf ball ever, and no doubt a 30 year old Jack would be Rory and D.J. long in today's power game, but average 360+ if he choose to? That's like saying he didn't average hitting 14/14 fairways, 18/18 greens with a scoring average of 58 because he chose not to because it wasn't needed to win.

Christosterone · August 28, 2019

This is interesting...I like the part that in a study, people hitting the old clubs average 15 mph slower swing speeds due to shaft length and weight of the old steel shafted micro heads...

That alone could account for around 45 years if 3 yards per mph is considered...

Anyhow, this is interesting

Don’t know how true everything is or if u can replicate the swing of Jack...

I think jack and tiger are generationally gifted...and could be better than anyone on the entire planet at whatever aspect of golf they felt important.....Tiger was always obsessed with irons, chipping and putting....jack was a interested in driver, long irons and putting....both were the greatest ever excluding the other

-Chris

Marco · August 28, 2019

> @Moonlightgrm said:

> I was fortunate to see Hogan and Snead play in person, late in their careers. I followed them both for 9-holes and both men hit every fairway and green. It was fun to watch. I never saw Nicklaus in person and I’ve seen Tiger in person. Tiger wins on power, but I’ll take Snead and Hogan based on my small sample.

>

> My top-5: Hogan, Snead, Norman, Woods, Nicklaus.

Yes Tiger wins on power hehe

bscinstnct · August 28, 2019

> @Marco said:

> > @Moonlightgrm said:

> > I was fortunate to see Hogan and Snead play in person, late in their careers. I followed them both for 9-holes and both men hit every fairway and green. It was fun to watch. I never saw Nicklaus in person and I’ve seen Tiger in person. Tiger wins on power, but I’ll take Snead and Hogan based on my small sample.

> >

> > My top-5: Hogan, Snead, Norman, Woods, Nicklaus.

>

> Yes Tiger wins on power hehe

>

Nice, that 3rd one down is great too. Guess TW was “ok” with driver ; )

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