Best driver .............ever

[LICC]

> @Christosterone said:

> This is interesting...I like the part that in a study, people hitting the old clubs average 15 mph slower swing speeds due to shaft length and weight of the old steel shafted micro heads...

> That alone could account for around 45 years if 3 yards per mph is considered...

> Anyhow, this is interesting

>

> Don’t know how true everything is or if u can replicate the swing of Jack...

> I think jack and tiger are generationally gifted...and could be better than anyone on the entire planet at whatever aspect of golf they felt important.....Tiger was always obsessed with irons, chipping and putting....jack was a interested in driver, long irons and putting....both were the greatest ever excluding the other

>

>

>

> -Chris

 

A 58-year old Jack hit it 300 at the Masters in 1998. Jack in his prime would be booming it today.

[jgonz69]

For those slobbering over nicklaus

https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2018/12/14/john-daly-davis-love-iii-greg-norman-drivers-driving.html

 

Q: What about Jack?

 

NORMAN: “Look, Jack was a good driver, I don’t think he was a great driver. I mean, a great driver of the golf ball is when you can put it out there and every time, there’s no fear, you’re just going at it. I’d put Jack in probably the top dozen.”

 

[KRAMER1997]

Tiger from 1997-2002 was absolutely insane off the tee. He was always top 5 in distance while hitting about 65-70% of his fairways. In fact, during the 1997 Masters, he was averaging 323 yards off the tee using a persimmon driver. The driving distance leader at this year's Masters (Finau) was only averaging 315 off the tee.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/golf/20-awesome-facts-tiger-woods-epic-1997-masters-win/

 

https://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/stats/cstats.html

[wmblake2000]

How do you ever compare generations? I guess by how they fared among their peers... I know Nicklaus in his prime was held in awe off the tee by everyone. And nowadays, Rory when he's on is the best. But Tiger when he had that steel shafted, small headed driver was just demolishing everyone else off the tee. It wasn't even a fair fight.

[grm24]

> @KRAMER1997 said:

> Tiger from 1997-2002 was absolutely insane off the tee. He was always top 5 in distance while hitting about 65-70% of his fairways. **In fact, during the 1997 Masters, he was averaging 323 yards off the tee using a persimmon driver.**

https://www.sportsnet.ca/golf/20-awesome-facts-tiger-woods-epic-1997-masters-win/


 

 

LOL. No. Tiger didn't use a persimmon driver in the 1997 Masters. He used a deep face metal head Cobra driver. The link you provided doesn't state that he used a persimmon driver. It states SOME players were still using persimmon at that time. Tiger wasn't one of them.

 

https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2017/04/04/tiger-woods-unique-irons-1997-masters.html

**Driver: King Cobra Deep Face* (True Temper Dynamic Gold X100 shaft), 9 degrees**

 

 

[Hankshank]

> @wmblake2000 said:

> How do you ever compare generations? I guess by how they fared among their peers... I know Nicklaus in his prime was held in awe off the tee by everyone. And nowadays, Rory when he's on is the best. But Tiger when he had that steel shafted, small headed driver was just demolishing everyone else off the tee. It wasn't even a fair fight.

Comparing among peers at a certain time - Can anyone into the game history help me out here? Who was the bomber of the 80´s ? I started to play in 81 but at that time there was no internet and I was just playing most of the time with a friend who took up golf together with me. We saw some odd SEO and read the local Golf Pravda called Svensk Golf, but the information flow was just not simply the same as now. So, you who were into things more those days. Who was the bomber of that time? Earlier that that there has been a lot of Jacks, Sams and so on mentioned, and in the 90's came Daly and possibly later Tiger. But during the 80's? Boom boom? Norman?

 

[300_yard_drives]

> @Hankshank said:

> > @wmblake2000 said:

> > How do you ever compare generations? I guess by how they fared among their peers... I know Nicklaus in his prime was held in awe off the tee by everyone. And nowadays, Rory when he's on is the best. But Tiger when he had that steel shafted, small headed driver was just demolishing everyone else off the tee. It wasn't even a fair fight.

> Comparing among peers at a certain time - Can anyone into the game history help me out here? Who was the bomber of the 80´s ? I started to play in 81 but at that time there was no internet and I was just playing most of the time with a friend who took up golf together with me. We saw some odd SEO and read the local Golf Pravda called Svensk Golf, but the information flow was just not simply the same as now. So, you who were into things more those days. Who was the bomber of that time? Earlier that that there has been a lot of Jacks, Sams and so on mentioned, and in the 90's came Daly and possibly later Tiger. But during the 80's? Boom boom? Norman?

>

 

Mid to late 80s DL3 was one of the best drivers of the ball I believe.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

> @grm24 said:

> > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > Tiger from 1997-2002 was absolutely insane off the tee. He was always top 5 in distance while hitting about 65-70% of his fairways. **In fact, during the 1997 Masters, he was averaging 323 yards off the tee using a persimmon driver.**

> https://www.sportsnet.ca/golf/20-awesome-facts-tiger-woods-epic-1997-masters-win/

> 

>

>

> LOL. No. Tiger didn't use a persimmon driver in the 1997 Masters. He used a deep face metal head Cobra driver. The link you provided doesn't state that he used a persimmon driver. It states SOME players were still using persimmon at that time. Tiger wasn't one of them.

>

> https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2017/04/04/tiger-woods-unique-irons-1997-masters.html

> **Driver: King Cobra Deep Face* (True Temper Dynamic Gold X100 shaft), 9 degrees**

>

>

>

 

Yep, came here to say the same thing.

Of the top of my head, I think the last player to win the Masters (and possibly any major) using a persimmon driver was Bernhard Langer in 1993.

[Hankshank]

> @300_yard_drives said:

> > @Hankshank said:

> > > @wmblake2000 said:

> > > How do you ever compare generations? I guess by how they fared among their peers... I know Nicklaus in his prime was held in awe off the tee by everyone. And nowadays, Rory when he's on is the best. But Tiger when he had that steel shafted, small headed driver was just demolishing everyone else off the tee. It wasn't even a fair fight.

> > Comparing among peers at a certain time - Can anyone into the game history help me out here? Who was the bomber of the 80´s ? I started to play in 81 but at that time there was no internet and I was just playing most of the time with a friend who took up golf together with me. We saw some odd SEO and read the local Golf Pravda called Svensk Golf, but the information flow was just not simply the same as now. So, you who were into things more those days. Who was the bomber of that time? Earlier that that there has been a lot of Jacks, Sams and so on mentioned, and in the 90's came Daly and possibly later Tiger. But during the 80's? Boom boom? Norman?

> >

>

> Mid to late 80s DL3 was one of the best drivers of the ball I believe.

Maybe it wasnt as secksy to drive for the show those days. (the word correctly spelled was censored... :) )

 

[dpb5031]

> @KRAMER1997 said:

> Tiger from 1997-2002 was absolutely insane off the tee. He was always top 5 in distance while hitting about 65-70% of his fairways. In fact, during the 1997 Masters, he was averaging 323 yards off the tee using a persimmon driver. The driving distance leader at this year's Masters (Finau) was only averaging 315 off the tee.

> https://www.sportsnet.ca/golf/20-awesome-facts-tiger-woods-epic-1997-masters-win/

>

> https://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/stats/cstats.html

 

Well, it wasnt persimmon, it was a King Cobra steel driver w/ X100 shaft. Tiger was super-long and relatively straight. His advantage over the field was almost shocking. His peers were awestruck and many felt they didnt stand a chance. (Pretty similar to Jack in his prime)

 

If you think about it, the modern drivers and golf ball actually hurt Tiger. With the old stuff he was untouchable in terms of distance and (relative) control off the tee. Once into the 2000s, everyone started picking up straighter yardage with the ProV1, titanium, and graphite. Radar fittings got them optimized. It really was a great equalizer.

 

Unfortunately for Tiger, he did not benefit nearly as much as his peers from the new gear. In fact, he lost accuracy and control, and the distance gap between him and the field narrowed significantly. Makes it all the more incredible that he continued on to completely dominate the game in spite of losing that huge advantage. Imagine if the equipment had not changed when it did?

[dpb5031]

> @300_yard_drives said:

> > @Hankshank said:

> > > @wmblake2000 said:

> > > How do you ever compare generations? I guess by how they fared among their peers... I know Nicklaus in his prime was held in awe off the tee by everyone. And nowadays, Rory when he's on is the best. But Tiger when he had that steel shafted, small headed driver was just demolishing everyone else off the tee. It wasn't even a fair fight.

> > Comparing among peers at a certain time - Can anyone into the game history help me out here? Who was the bomber of the 80´s ? I started to play in 81 but at that time there was no internet and I was just playing most of the time with a friend who took up golf together with me. We saw some odd SEO and read the local Golf Pravda called Svensk Golf, but the information flow was just not simply the same as now. So, you who were into things more those days. Who was the bomber of that time? Earlier that that there has been a lot of Jacks, Sams and so on mentioned, and in the 90's came Daly and possibly later Tiger. But during the 80's? Boom boom? Norman?

> >

>

> Mid to late 80s DL3 was one of the best drivers of the ball I believe.

 

DL3 was a great driver thru the 90s and I believe was the last big name on the Tour to continue playing persimmon when the rest had changed.

 

Another fact about Davis is that in the late 80s/early 90s he actually worked on reducing the lag in his swing to improve control. He was willing to sacrifice some CHS for better consistency and distance control. I think that illustrates one of the major differences in the equipment back then, especially the ball.

[dpb5031]

> @jgonz69 said:

> For those slobbering over nicklaus

> https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2018/12/14/john-daly-davis-love-iii-greg-norman-drivers-driving.html

>

> Q: What about Jack?

>

> NORMAN: “Look, Jack was a good driver, I don’t think he was a great driver. I mean, a great driver of the golf ball is when you can put it out there and every time, there’s no fear, you’re just going at it. I’d put Jack in probably the top dozen.”

>

 

I loved watching Norman and no doubt he drove it incredibly well, but I wouldn't put much stock in his statement about Nicklaus not being a "great driver."

 

Greg has a history of making some pretty dumb remarks. Claiming Nicklaus wasn't a "great driver" because he wasnt "fearless" sounds pretty stupid to me when a guy known more for failing to seal the deal is talking about arguably the best clutch player to ever play the game... with only Tiger Woods worthy of being part of the conversation.

[LICC]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @jgonz69 said:

> > For those slobbering over nicklaus

> > https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2018/12/14/john-daly-davis-love-iii-greg-norman-drivers-driving.html

> >

> > Q: What about Jack?

> >

> > NORMAN: “Look, Jack was a good driver, I don’t think he was a great driver. I mean, a great driver of the golf ball is when you can put it out there and every time, there’s no fear, you’re just going at it. I’d put Jack in probably the top dozen.”

> >

>

> I loved watching Norman and no doubt he drove it incredibly well, but I wouldn't put much stock in his statement about Nicklaus not being a "great driver."

>

> Greg has a history of making some pretty dumb remarks. Claiming Nicklaus wasn't a "great driver" because he wasnt "fearless" sounds pretty stupid to me when a guy known more for failing to seal the deal is talking about arguably the best clutch player to ever play the game... with only Tiger Woods worthy of being part of the conversation.

 

Agree, this is self aggrandizement by Norman. Look at how many of Jack’s peers disagree with Norman.

[KRAMER1997]

> @grm24 said:

> > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > Tiger from 1997-2002 was absolutely insane off the tee. He was always top 5 in distance while hitting about 65-70% of his fairways. **In fact, during the 1997 Masters, he was averaging 323 yards off the tee using a persimmon driver.**

> https://www.sportsnet.ca/golf/20-awesome-facts-tiger-woods-epic-1997-masters-win/

> 

>

>

> LOL. No. Tiger didn't use a persimmon driver in the 1997 Masters. He used a deep face metal head Cobra driver. The link you provided doesn't state that he used a persimmon driver. It states SOME players were still using persimmon at that time. Tiger wasn't one of them.

>

> https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2017/04/04/tiger-woods-unique-irons-1997-masters.html

> **Driver: King Cobra Deep Face* (True Temper Dynamic Gold X100 shaft), 9 degrees**

>

>

>

 

I thought he did, lol my bad. Anyways my bad.

[Ferguson]

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> Jack on WRX is the equivalent of Chuck Norris.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[QuigleyDU]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > Tiger from 1997-2002 was absolutely insane off the tee. He was always top 5 in distance while hitting about 65-70% of his fairways. In fact, during the 1997 Masters, he was averaging 323 yards off the tee using a persimmon driver. The driving distance leader at this year's Masters (Finau) was only averaging 315 off the tee.

> > https://www.sportsnet.ca/golf/20-awesome-facts-tiger-woods-epic-1997-masters-win/

> >

> > https://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/stats/cstats.html

>

> Well, it wasnt persimmon, it was a King Cobra steel driver w/ X100 shaft. Tiger was super-long and relatively straight. His advantage over the field was almost shocking. His peers were awestruck and many felt they didnt stand a chance. (Pretty similar to Jack in his prime)

>

> If you think about it, the modern drivers and golf ball actually hurt Tiger. With the old stuff he was untouchable in terms of distance and (relative) control off the tee. Once into the 2000s, everyone started picking up straighter yardage with the ProV1, titanium, and graphite. Radar fittings got them optimized. It really was a great equalizer.

>

> Unfortunately for Tiger, he did not benefit nearly as much as his peers from the new gear. In fact, he lost accuracy and control, and the distance gap between him and the field narrowed significantly. Makes it all the more incredible that he continued on to completely dominate the game in spite of losing that huge advantage. Imagine if the equipment had not changed when it did?

 

Tiger also NEVER averaged 323... the longest ave ever on the PGA tour is a bit over 321. This year Cam Champ only ave 317...

[KRAMER1997]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > > Tiger from 1997-2002 was absolutely insane off the tee. He was always top 5 in distance while hitting about 65-70% of his fairways. In fact, during the 1997 Masters, he was averaging 323 yards off the tee using a persimmon driver. The driving distance leader at this year's Masters (Finau) was only averaging 315 off the tee.

> > > https://www.sportsnet.ca/golf/20-awesome-facts-tiger-woods-epic-1997-masters-win/

> > >

> > > https://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/stats/cstats.html

> >

> > Well, it wasnt persimmon, it was a King Cobra steel driver w/ X100 shaft. Tiger was super-long and relatively straight. His advantage over the field was almost shocking. His peers were awestruck and many felt they didnt stand a chance. (Pretty similar to Jack in his prime)

> >

> > If you think about it, the modern drivers and golf ball actually hurt Tiger. With the old stuff he was untouchable in terms of distance and (relative) control off the tee. Once into the 2000s, everyone started picking up straighter yardage with the ProV1, titanium, and graphite. Radar fittings got them optimized. It really was a great equalizer.

> >

> > Unfortunately for Tiger, he did not benefit nearly as much as his peers from the new gear. In fact, he lost accuracy and control, and the distance gap between him and the field narrowed significantly. Makes it all the more incredible that he continued on to completely dominate the game in spite of losing that huge advantage. Imagine if the equipment had not changed when it did?

>

> Tiger also NEVER averaged 323... the longest ave ever on the PGA tour is a bit over 321. This year Cam Champ only ave 317...

 

That was during the 1997 Masters, read the article link I posted.

[QuigleyDU]

> @KRAMER1997 said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > > > Tiger from 1997-2002 was absolutely insane off the tee. He was always top 5 in distance while hitting about 65-70% of his fairways. In fact, during the 1997 Masters, he was averaging 323 yards off the tee using a persimmon driver. The driving distance leader at this year's Masters (Finau) was only averaging 315 off the tee.

> > > > https://www.sportsnet.ca/golf/20-awesome-facts-tiger-woods-epic-1997-masters-win/

> > > >

> > > > https://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/stats/cstats.html

> > >

> > > Well, it wasnt persimmon, it was a King Cobra steel driver w/ X100 shaft. Tiger was super-long and relatively straight. His advantage over the field was almost shocking. His peers were awestruck and many felt they didnt stand a chance. (Pretty similar to Jack in his prime)

> > >

> > > If you think about it, the modern drivers and golf ball actually hurt Tiger. With the old stuff he was untouchable in terms of distance and (relative) control off the tee. Once into the 2000s, everyone started picking up straighter yardage with the ProV1, titanium, and graphite. Radar fittings got them optimized. It really was a great equalizer.

> > >

> > > Unfortunately for Tiger, he did not benefit nearly as much as his peers from the new gear. In fact, he lost accuracy and control, and the distance gap between him and the field narrowed significantly. Makes it all the more incredible that he continued on to completely dominate the game in spite of losing that huge advantage. Imagine if the equipment had not changed when it did?

> >

> > Tiger also NEVER averaged 323... the longest ave ever on the PGA tour is a bit over 321. This year Cam Champ only ave 317...

>

> That was during the 1997 Masters, read the article link I posted.

 

My mistake.

[jmcf1949]

My vote for best driver ever is Jack followed by Hogan. I'd place Greg Norman a distant third.

[jmcf1949]

> @JD3 said:

> Before my time but apparently Nicklaus sprayed it all over the place...but he had 50 yards on the field. Norman from what I remember just never seemed to be in trouble off the tee...like almost literally never. For someone with his length that's incredible. So given what I've read or seen, I'd go:

>

> Hogan (steel shaft era) as he was considered best ball striker all time, so that must also include driver

> Norman (graphite shaft/metal head era)

> Rory (titanium head era)

 

Don't know where you got the idea that Jack sprayed it all over the place. Simply not true. You can't win like he did playing like that. Especially with a somewhat average short game.

[gvogel]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @BloctonGolf11 said:

> > The problem here comes down to simple issues that plague any comparison of GOAT's in any sports: far separated eras are essentially impossible to compare. There is no concrete way to make a determination of someone like Rory to Jack in the same way you can't leave someone like Hogan out of the equation. Also, we have no idea how the progenitor players of the early part of the century like Jones and Sarazen would have stacked up. They were certainly playing with inferior technology as well as playing a different style of game due to course design and maintenance. Moral of the story is you can basically just say who the GOATs of each era were and dream up ways to try to compare them that can never be quantified in any meaningful way.

>

> This makes far too much sense to ignore the fact that Jack Nicklaus was the best to ever putt around a bunker.

 

That's right and that's funny.

[gvogel]

> @Rmatzen said:

> > @Bye said:

> > Rory has to be the best since the equipment change. He has the most variety in shot making with driver, along with his power and being completely fearless with it.

> >

> > Is Adam Scott a worthy mention though! He must be close in the conversation.

> >

> > Norman was incredible with the old gear, and probably the best of his generation.

> >

> >

>

> I think this is really important- Rory has a great inventory of shots off the tee that Jack just didn't have. However, for raw power and ability to get it done off the tee, you can't count Nicklaus out. Jack was so smooth he even switched to a regular flex shaft while on tour. Lots of power left in the tank I think.

 

I have a feeling that Jack had a great inventory of shots off the tee as well. Also, Jack used a stiff shaft tipped a bit, but not an X-flex like many of the other long hitters of his era.

[Bye]

> @gvogel said:

> > @Rmatzen said:

> > > @Bye said:

> > > Rory has to be the best since the equipment change. He has the most variety in shot making with driver, along with his power and being completely fearless with it.

> > >

> > > Is Adam Scott a worthy mention though! He must be close in the conversation.

> > >

> > > Norman was incredible with the old gear, and probably the best of his generation.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I think this is really important- Rory has a great inventory of shots off the tee that Jack just didn't have. However, for raw power and ability to get it done off the tee, you can't count Nicklaus out. Jack was so smooth he even switched to a regular flex shaft while on tour. Lots of power left in the tank I think.

>

> I have a feeling that Jack had a great inventory of shots off the tee as well. Also, Jack used a stiff shaft tipped a bit, but not an X-flex like many of the other long hitters of his era.

 

I didn’t really get the chance to see Jack, but I am sure he was more than versatile off the tee. Anyone who has played with a persimmon and balata will know the ball needed to be worked.

 

My comment on Rory was more to do with the more recent generation who seem to work it one way and don’t really worry about flighting it.

 

On another note, has anyone mentioned Davis Love III?

 

 

[JD3]

> @jmcf1949 said:

> > @JD3 said:

> > Before my time but apparently Nicklaus sprayed it all over the place...but he had 50 yards on the field. Norman from what I remember just never seemed to be in trouble off the tee...like almost literally never. For someone with his length that's incredible. So given what I've read or seen, I'd go:

> >

> > Hogan (steel shaft era) as he was considered best ball striker all time, so that must also include driver

> > Norman (graphite shaft/metal head era)

> > Rory (titanium head era)

>

> Don't know where you got the idea that Jack sprayed it all over the place. Simply not true. You can't win like he did playing like that. Especially with a somewhat average short game.

 

He did win while not being the most accurate, he was exceptional with long irons....that's an under appreciated advantage; can use off tees, 2ns shot into a par 5, and longer approach into par 4 if you laid back to avoid trouble. Also of course long par 3's. Tiger also approached many majors the same way

[gioguy21]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > @"Night train" said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

> > > >

> > > > I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

> > >

> > >

> > > I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I am not sure what you are telling me here. I think that if you went to a demo with any tour pro they could do that as well. This alone does nothing for the case of him being the best driver ever. I don't argue his greatness over all or that he was the greatest. But, I don't think this plays well as proof of that.

> >

> >

>

> My Dad's uncle watched Nicklaus on the range once in the late 1970s in Southern California. There was a huge net at the end of the range about **200-350** yards out. He said Nicklaus was flying 2-irons into the net, and they wouldn't even let him hit driver because of the homes beyond the net. If that isn't another gear, then every car should be a snowmobile.

 

i'm not sure if that's close...or far away...

 

[Hankshank]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > > > > Tiger from 1997-2002 was absolutely insane off the tee. He was always top 5 in distance while hitting about 65-70% of his fairways. In fact, during the 1997 Masters, he was averaging 323 yards off the tee using a persimmon driver. The driving distance leader at this year's Masters (Finau) was only averaging 315 off the tee.

> > > > > https://www.sportsnet.ca/golf/20-awesome-facts-tiger-woods-epic-1997-masters-win/

> > > > >

> > > > > https://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/stats/cstats.html

> > > >

> > > > Well, it wasnt persimmon, it was a King Cobra steel driver w/ X100 shaft. Tiger was super-long and relatively straight. His advantage over the field was almost shocking. His peers were awestruck and many felt they didnt stand a chance. (Pretty similar to Jack in his prime)

> > > >

> > > > If you think about it, the modern drivers and golf ball actually hurt Tiger. With the old stuff he was untouchable in terms of distance and (relative) control off the tee. Once into the 2000s, everyone started picking up straighter yardage with the ProV1, titanium, and graphite. Radar fittings got them optimized. It really was a great equalizer.

> > > >

> > > > Unfortunately for Tiger, he did not benefit nearly as much as his peers from the new gear. In fact, he lost accuracy and control, and the distance gap between him and the field narrowed significantly. Makes it all the more incredible that he continued on to completely dominate the game in spite of losing that huge advantage. Imagine if the equipment had not changed when it did?

> > >

> > > Tiger also NEVER averaged 323... the longest ave ever on the PGA tour is a bit over 321. This year Cam Champ only ave 317...

> >

> > That was during the 1997 Masters, read the article link I posted.

>

> My mistake.

Well, he drove it veery long those years, metal or wood driver. Cant really remember if he has a fairway hitter in his early tour days, though.

1997 driving distance

1. big John

2. Tiger

3. Glasson

4. Love 3

5. Lefty

 

Accuracy?

 

[smashdn]

> @dpb5031 said:

> If you think about it, the modern drivers and golf ball actually hurt Tiger. With the old stuff he was untouchable in terms of distance and (relative) control off the tee. Once into the 2000s, everyone started picking up straighter yardage with the ProV1, titanium, and graphite. Radar fittings got them optimized. **It really was a great equalizer.**

 

Thus to Adam Scott's point in the other thread, it is no longer a skill that differentiates. Everyone (hyperbole) has it. If everyone has it, nobody has it. Just go drop the ball in the fairway at 320 off the tee and play the tournament from there.

 

Tiger in 1997 was a great driver from an accuracy standpoint and longer. But he was longer with his long irons too. Thus he could gain even more accuracy and not give up much distance to the field with a 2 or 3 iron off the tee.

 

 

[Ferguson]

Big Drivers of the past all had their own individual downfall.

 

Bill Glasson - muscle enhancers eventually messed up his vision.

Camilo Villegas - separated his shoulder from wearing one of those grossly oversize Invicta watches

John: tried to eat a 6-foot sub by himself, sub won

Hank Kuehne - dope and booze

Love 3 - a recurring case of beltasoids

 

 

 

[mahonie]

The other thing that skews the comparisons is that the first cut of rough is counted as ‘fairway’ for the PGA Tour Shots Gained stats, so the modern guys aren’t as accurate as is being made out. The other thing to consider is the conditioning of modern courses.

[tiderider]

> @jgonz69 said:

> For those slobbering over nicklaus

> https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2018/12/14/john-daly-davis-love-iii-greg-norman-drivers-driving.html

>

> Q: What about Jack?

>

> NORMAN: “Look, Jack was a good driver, I don’t think he was a great driver. I mean, a great driver of the golf ball is when you can put it out there and every time, there’s no fear, you’re just going at it. I’d put Jack in probably the top dozen.”

>


 

46 yo jack drove it as well if not better than 31 yo norman at augusta in '86 ...