How does OEMs measure Club lengths ....

[Bad9]

If you are talking about this one https://www.golfworks.ca/exact-measure-tool/p/tmr/ I have been using the Golfsmith version for 20+yrs. The only thing that really matters is that it is consistent for clubs that you measure. Given the differences in how different companies measure clubs(outlined in a various threads here over the years) it really is the only factor you need to worry about.

[Socrates]

9 hours ago, Nickthurgood said:

I know this is an older thread but I just received my Ralph Maltby Ruler (accounts for lie angle) from GolfWorks. Very high quality but is consistently reading 3/16ths longer than stated OEM specs. For example and Ungripped “Standard” SIM measured to 45-7/8ths @ 56* lie angle. Every other club coming in similarly long across varying brands. I have access to a Mitchell Ruler which seems to be right on but this one is surprisingly long. Anyone else have one of these?   

I assume it is this one:  Several comments on the Golfworks site for this ruler that say measurement it is inaccurate.  Don't know how that happens, but sounds like you should've gotten the Mitchell one.  I've used the Auditor for a long time (actually before Golfworks sold them) and it is true.

 

 

[kiwii]

Not sure if this helps at all but there are a few videos on youtube of the OEM tour vans. Here is Ping: (club measuring is at 7min mark)

 

 

[kiwii]

Here's for PXG: (50 sec in)

 

[Socrates]

4 hours ago, kiwii said:

Not sure if this helps at all but there are a few videos on youtube of the OEM tour vans. Here is Ping: (club measuring is at 7min mark)

 

 

Hadn't watched this specific one before.  3 things really stood out. 

One was the measuring of the irons.  Claimed the USGA mandated a 58º angle for irons.  Totally false. The USGA only uses 60º.  Sounds like Ping has come up with a number that works for them without having to adjust the device for every head.

Two was the crappola about memory in the heads when bending them.  Clearly doesn't understand the physics and just toes the party line.

Three was the digital measurement of the woods loft and the variability is mostly in the adaptors and not so much in the heads.  This makes real sense.

Edited November 7, 2020 by Socrates

[Stuart_G]

Don't assume that the Tour vans use the same methods as the factories.

Edited November 7, 2020 by Stuart_G

[Socrates]

15 hours ago, kiwii said:

Here's for PXG: (50 sec in)

 

Well, that answered one or two questions I had about PXG assembly.  Wow!!  If I used that much QuickCenter for my assemblies I'd have to say that I sucked as a clubmaker.

[Socrates]

7 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

Don't assume that the Tour vans use the same methods as the factories.

They actually used more than I thought they would.  Just found it odd that they came up with a diff lie angle to use for irons and gave some BS story.

[johngalt312]

10 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

Don't assume that the Tour vans use the same methods as the factories.

If any OEM would though, it’d certainly be PING.  They seemingly make it a point to carry over factory processes and procedures to their tour vans.

[Birddog2]

On 11/6/2020 at 5:02 PM, kiwii said:

Not sure if this helps at all but there are a few videos on youtube of the OEM tour vans. Here is Ping: (club measuring is at 7min mark)

 

 

First time I've hears 58* for irons.  As Stuart said, can't count on Tour Van's using same process as factories.  The Saga continues.  

[Pepperturbo]

I think OEM club length is almost secondary to how designers, using CAD, configure heads using various materials.  I have five sets of irons going back to 2000 in the garage storage closet.  I am sure history has its influences when it comes to club length.  All five sets by different OEM's, have the same club length specs for each club, as my Titleist 620 MB & CB series sets.  Nonetheless, lofts vary by a degree, lie angles vary a bit, bounce 1-2*.

[mistaklavin]

Didn't happen to see any mention of Srixon on this thread. Anyone have any idea of how they measure length?

[Sparty4202]

On 11/3/2020 at 1:20 AM, Nickthurgood said:

I know this is an older thread but I just received my Ralph Maltby Ruler (accounts for lie angle) from GolfWorks. Very high quality but is consistently reading 3/16ths longer than stated OEM specs. For example and Ungripped “Standard” SIM measured to 45-7/8ths @ 56* lie angle. Every other club coming in similarly long across varying brands. I have access to a Mitchell Ruler which seems to be right on but this one is surprisingly long. Anyone else have one of these?   

Interesting....I picked up a Mitchell Ruler this spring and I have found it to measure slightly shorter usually 1/8” than the 60* USGA method I’ve used in the past...needless to say as long as the build lengths are consistent I’m not worried.

[JCAG]

What would be interesting is have someone send the same iron around to the OEM's and ask them to measure the length. So far we have seen the possibility of at least a 1/4 inch difference.

 

I love when people say their clubs were say 1/2inch longer over standard when there is no standard. Some OEM's do not even use the same length standard between their product lines. I have seen as much as a 3/4 in difference

 

Year back the old PCS had a frequency machine calibration dummy club they sent to clubmakers and a spreadsheet. They were to measure the CPM and enter the reading in a cell on the spreadsheet and the spreadsheet would compute any differences and print out a chart. That was when a PCS Clubmaker said a club was say 5.6 FCM another PCS Clubmaker would show the same 5.6 FCM even if the  two frequency machines had a different reading. Basically the spreadsheet was the calibrator.

[rt_charger]

On 5/19/2021 at 4:54 PM, mistaklavin said:

Didn't happen to see any mention of Srixon on this thread. Anyone have any idea of how they measure length?

I just bought some zipcores, completely stock standard, and the playing length is bang on the advertised number on the website. So cleveland appear to measure including cap (there's no dome on the standard grip), so I imagine Srixon would do the same.

[mistaklavin]

9 hours ago, rt_charger said:

I just bought some zipcores, completely stock standard, and the playing length is bang on the advertised number on the website. So cleveland appear to measure including cap (there's no dome on the standard grip), so I imagine Srixon would do the same.

 

Appreciate the follow up and good to know. I ordered a set of ZX7s a quarter inch over, so when they get in I'll chime in here to let you guys know what I see.

[mistaklavin]

Figure I’d follow up here. Srixon made my irons wrong…. But I took an off the rack set and measured a 7 iron. Using the USGA method, a 7 iron measured 37.25” to the end of the butt cap. Hope that helps!

[bombs]

On 5/19/2021 at 4:54 PM, mistaklavin said:

Didn't happen to see any mention of Srixon on this thread. Anyone have any idea of how they measure length?

 

In my experience their "stock" length is the longest of all.. 

[dlow206]

Does Ping still measure without the grip?

 

I got two stock off the rack Glide 4.0 wedges, one measured right on the button from clubhead to end of grip on my Mitchell measurement tool to published Ping spec, and the other measured 1/8" long from clubhead to end of grip. Both are within acceptable variance in my mind, so not complaining at all, just curious. 

 

The swingweight on those two wedges were D3.8 and D4.0 according to my digital swingweight machine, which is awesomely on spec (D4.0). And the lie angle was right on spec with the measurements I took on my Mitchell loft lie. 

[Seamus_McDuff]

Noticed this on Taylormade’s site. Does it mean they’re now measuring to end of ungripped shaft?

 

”Due to a slight variance in how we measure club length compared to the USGA, custom drivers ordered at 45.75 inches may exceed the 46 limit as defined by the USGA. If you’ve ordered a driver at that length, please measure from the end of the grip to assure conformity prior to competing in a sanctioned golf tournament. Variables that can contribute to deviations in length measurements include grip size and/or the presence of a grip cap, such as a tracking tool.”

[Stuart_G]

15 minutes ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

Noticed this on Taylormade’s site. Does it mean they’re now measuring to end of ungripped shaft?

 

”Due to a slight variance in how we measure club length compared to the USGA, custom drivers ordered at 45.75 inches may exceed the 46 limit as defined by the USGA. If you’ve ordered a driver at that length, please measure from the end of the grip to assure conformity prior to competing in a sanctioned golf tournament. Variables that can contribute to deviations in length measurements include grip size and/or the presence of a grip cap, such as a tracking tool.”

 

That's one possibility.  Another is that they are measuring to the edge of the grip cap and not counting any dome that is part of the grip cap.   Or that their measurement is just to the very cap end of one specific model grip (most likely stock grip if that's the case).

 

My guess is that it's just saying that their measurement does not take into consideration the extra length of the arccos sensor style grips.   That's the only thing I can think of that would really push a 45.75" driver past the 46" limit.   Typically the grip rarely adds more than 1/8" - although there could be some very few exceptions to that.

 

Another is it could be a euphemism to say that the grip may not have been installed all the way to the end of the shaft - without actually admitting that it's a possibility that the factory may have messed up the grip installation.  But still want to caution people to avoid them being disqualified because of that type of mistake.

 

No way to know for sure just based on that statement.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Stuart_G

[cav5]

anyone explain this? seems the USGA ruler measures about 1/2in longer than the 60* ruler. @Howard_Jones  @Stuart_G

 

 

[Stuart_G]

28 minutes ago, cav5 said:

anyone explain this? seems the USGA ruler measures about 1/2in longer than the 60* ruler. @Howard_Jones  @Stuart_G

 

 

I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation. 

 

USGA ruler is a 60* ruler.   The message states that it could (not will) measure up to 1/2" longer than "a lot of devices out there"  or "your local shop ruler."   But it makes no mention of the details of how those other devices measure length.   Just a guess but more likely a reference to many of the commercial pin based club rulers (like a Mitchell), not a true 60* ruler.

 

So there is not enough clarity to get into any more details of an explanation.

 

The other thing that's not clear is what exactly they mean by "most of time EOG."   Sounds to me like they are making assumptions about the amount the grip adds to the length (which is very common) but it's not clear on how much that is.  But to ensure compliance with the rules, I'd guess it's a pretty conservative amount - more than most builders might use.  That by itself could explain some of the difference they are saying could exist.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Stuart_G

[cav5]

@Stuart_G thanks for the response. yeah just seemed strange to me. 1/2in seems like a large difference. in another one of trotties post he mentions a "USGA UD" ruler

 

[Stuart_G]

7 minutes ago, cav5 said:

@Stuart_G thanks for the response. yeah just seemed strange to me. 1/2in seems like a large difference.

 

First of all, I'd want to see a lot more data before I made any assumptions on how common it is to be that full 1/2" off. 

 

But considering all the variations possible at both ends of the club on how clubs can be measured, it's really not all that surprising that some permutations can result in that much of a difference.  

 

 

7 minutes ago, cav5 said:

he mentions a "USGA UD" ruler

 

In what context?    Talking about the same ruler or a different one?   But sorry, not seen that reference before.  

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Stuart_G

[cav5]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

 

First of all, I'd want to see a lot more data before I made any assumptions on how common it is to be that full 1/2" off. 

 

But considering all the variations possible at both ends of the club on how clubs can be measured, it's really not all that surprising that some permutations can result in that much of a difference.  

 

 

 

In what context?    Talking about the same ruler or a different one?   But sorry, not seen that reference before.  

 

ill need to find it again. Doesn't really make sense what trottie is saying. Most 4 irons are about 60* lie. my homemade ruler is the 60* version so technically measuring to middle of the sole and 4 irons should measure same length. do shops use something else?

 

really just curious, doesn't matter that much lol

Edited August 18, 2022 by cav5

[Stuart_G]

9 minutes ago, cav5 said:

ill need to find it again. Doesn't really make sense what trottie is saying. Most 4 irons are about 60* lie. my homemade ruler is the 60* version so technically measuring to middle of the sole and 4 irons should measure same length. do shops use something else?

 

Lots of variations in club rulers available to shops and builders.  

 

Pin vs plane.   Pin is usually fixed so not always positioned such that it hits the middle of the sole - since the heel to toe length of irons can vary quite a lot.  Plane devices can be fixed (such as 60* usga method) or variable based on the actual lie angle of the club.   Some devices measure along the center line of shaft, some others measure against the back edge.   And that's just the variations that tend to show up at the club head end.    Additional variations at the grip end (as outlined earlier in this thread).

 

 

[cav5]

@Stuart_G  start at about 2:10. i feel like hes measuring from the center of the sole on like a diagonal to the grip or the start line is underneath the sole. which could add that 1/2in maybe. or im crazy and just look at my next post LOL😁

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by cav5

[cav5]

[Stuart_G]

8 minutes ago, cav5 said:

@Stuart_G  start at about 2:10. i feel like hes measuring from the center of the sole

 

 

That's what he says, but the view of the ruler isn't really very clear.  I'd bet it's a plane based measurement.

 

For your last post, the 0" point is at the intersection between the two lines on the vast majority of club rulers.  It's almost never at the point where the sole touches the plane.