Blades for mid-high handicapper?

[BiggErn]

> @mahonie said:

> > @chippa13 said:

> > I took the closest to the pin prize with my shovels over the weekend. If only I had a blade in my hand, would have been a hole in one. **** my terrible distance control and proximity Rocketbladez irons.

>

> Rocketbladez and distance control do not go in the same sentence, my friend:

>

> http://www.golfwrx.com/112242/taylormade-rocketbladez-tour-irons-editor-review/

 

Can you drop 9 irons inside a hoola hoop from 140 yards?

[farmer]

I dip into these threads, and see the same stuff over and over. Blades or shovels, it's all been said. My only contribution will be that any club that forces you into hyper focus on the swing prevents you from playing golf, and forces you into playing golf swing. I'm an old guy, played blades when that was all there was, enjoyed them, but now I play hybrids through the seven and really enjoy the results.

[chisag]

> @mahonie said:

> > @xyckin said:

> > I did not foresee such hostility in this thread :o

>

> Always the same when you get @BiggErn, @balls_deep ‘n @chisag...they spend so much time together in these types of threads I guess they never actually play golf ?

 

... I played yesterday with my Z Forged and today with P790's. Wind was 20mph so the reduced spin of the P790's was nice. I have also never read the MB fluffier thread. And in this thread I just said an MB won't make you a better ball striker, better swings make you a better ball striker. But this game is so mental and if someone thinks an MB will help them improve, it certainly can do just that. But that is a discipline issue not a performance issue. Once I add anything like Annika or Freddie are great ball strikers with GI irons and get all the feedback they need from them, the MB zealots heads explode. I put the Discotti dude on ignore long ago but you at least are more reasonable so I suffer your ignorance. ;)

 

[BiggErn]

> @chippa13 said:

> I took the closest to the pin prize with my shovels over the weekend. If only I had a blade in my hand, would have been a hole in one. **** my terrible distance control and proximity Rocketbladez irons.

 

You must’ve got lucky and the mid cap MB guys can hit closest to the pin every time.

[Red4282]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Red4282 said:

> > @chisag

> > Thats the beauty of golf man, theres so many different ways to play it and get better. So many different swing method theories, none are absolute in being the best. If playing blades has proven to improve ball striking on quite a few players, then there is something real there. Is it for everyone? No, of course not. Are we suggesting every amateur learning the game do this? Of course not. But it is something that may work.

>

> There’s a lot of different swings that can result in the same impact for sure. When someone is a double digit HC no one is gonna believe they’re a good ball striker and just suck at everything else. It’s ridiculous. There is absolutely no benefit to playing an MB if you don’t pound that pea size sweet spot like it’s almost an afterthought. As soon as someone starts talking about a miss or they focus more or “it just works for me” you know they’re just blowing smoke.

 

First of all i never implied someone game blades. Im saying you can have a range session with a blade and it CAN help you find that so called pea size spot. cant speak for a double digit handicap, but im scratch and i can tell you it works for me. You can think im blowin smoke and that fine. I have my theory and you can have yours. I think some of yall need to rewind back 30-40 years and hit those blades. People like me learned to play on those clubs. The modern blade is so much easier to hit its not even funny. Training like this is done all over the sports world. Ever hear of the baseball players hitting with sticks? Same thing. It just raises your awareness and hand eye coordination. But no baseball player is batting in a game with a stick.

[dpb5031]

> @chisag said:

> ... This is why these "discussions" go nowhere. I never said it was folly. I said it was lazy and undisciplined mentally. I also said it worked for you as well as others, and that's great.

 

My bad, it was @chippa13 who said it was folly...lol.

 

...and you still have not said anything remotely convincing that has addressed the very specific points I made as to WHY practicing with a blade can be beneficial?

[dpb5031]

> @chippa13 said:

> I said it was folly, and I stand by it. If you don't practice what you play then how can you take that session to the course? Unless of course, the practice clubs are the exact length, weight, etc of the playing clubs, which in that case, just practice with the clubs you play with. Otherwise, one is putting variables into practice vs play. Imagine how much better a player can be if they spend countless hours properly practicing with the same sticks that they use on the course.

>

> Play whatever you want but some of the justifications just don't make sense.

 

Where exactly did I state that you shouldn't practice with what you play?

 

Further, which justifications about the benefits of practicing with a blade dont make sense to you and why? Just saying they dont make sense isnt a very convincing argument...lol. I was pretty specific in spelling out why practicing with a blade can be beneficial. Neither you nor @chisag have said anything of substance that refutes the very specific points that I made.

 

If you're going to be so passionate about your opinion on these matters perhaps you should try actually reading and comprehending what's actually been written rather than create false objections that suit YOUR narrative?

[BiggErn]

> @Red4282 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Red4282 said:

> > > @chisag

> > > Thats the beauty of golf man, theres so many different ways to play it and get better. So many different swing method theories, none are absolute in being the best. If playing blades has proven to improve ball striking on quite a few players, then there is something real there. Is it for everyone? No, of course not. Are we suggesting every amateur learning the game do this? Of course not. But it is something that may work.

> >

> > There’s a lot of different swings that can result in the same impact for sure. When someone is a double digit HC no one is gonna believe they’re a good ball striker and just suck at everything else. It’s ridiculous. There is absolutely no benefit to playing an MB if you don’t pound that pea size sweet spot like it’s almost an afterthought. As soon as someone starts talking about a miss or they focus more or “it just works for me” you know they’re just blowing smoke.

>

> First of all i never implied someone game blades. Im saying you can have a range session with a blade and it CAN help you find that so called pea size spot. cant speak for a double digit handicap, but im scratch and i can tell you it works for me. You can think im blowin smoke and that fine. I have my theory and you can have yours. I think some of yall need to rewind back 30-40 years and hit those blades. People like me learned to play on those clubs. The modern blade is so much easier to hit its not even funny. Training like this is done all over the sports world. Ever hear of the baseball players hitting with sticks? Same thing. It just raises your awareness and hand eye coordination. But no baseball player is batting in a game with a stick.

 

You’re a scratch golfer so I wouldn’t think it pertains to you but your story still has holes. If you’re a scratch golfer why do you need an MB as a training aid when you’re gonna find the center of the face a good bit regardless of what you use. You can keep throwing useless analogies in as well but I guarantee most mid handicaps aren’t gonna improve ball striking just by using an MB to practice with. If that were the case there wouldn’t be so many mid cap MB users on here trying to defend their absurd reasoning on a daily basis. I mean I assume they practice and have been playing for awhile but they’re still mid caps. Maybe they need an extra teeny tiny baby blade to practice with.

[dpb5031]

> @chisag said:

> > @lenman73 said:

> > So if someone was going to practice with a tour striker, do they come 3-LW or can one use just one like using a blade 7 iron ? Or are all training aids worthless and should be thrown out ? After all, you are not using on the course during a round so how could a training session ever transfer over.

>

>

> ... The purpose of the Tour Striker is to train you to swing differently than you are swinging, hence "training aid". The argument some seem to be making is a MB 7 iron teaches you to hit the center more often and improve your ball striking without changing your swing, just your focus. Not a training aid, just a mental bandaid for those that do not have the discipline to attempt to hit the dead center on every swing regardless of what iron they are using. There are plenty of LPGA ladies playing hybrids well into their mid irons and hitting a MB isn't going to improve the little dime size worn in sweet spot on their hybrids they got from hitting them over and over again and honing their ball striking.

>

>

>

 

@chisag , WTF are you talking about? I very specifically spelled out EXACTLY how practicing with a more demanding blade CAN help you change/improve your swing. In other words, as you put it, to "swing differently."

 

You either haven't read what I've written or otherwise selectively ignore and avoid the salient points that you can't easily refute.

 

Opinion is one thing, and you're certainly entitled to yours, but if you're going to disparage mine, you'd be a lot more convincing if you actually addressed what I've written instead of spinning things to suit your arguments. It's all here in black & white

[dpb5031]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Red4282 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @Red4282 said:

> > > > @chisag

> > > > Thats the beauty of golf man, theres so many different ways to play it and get better. So many different swing method theories, none are absolute in being the best. If playing blades has proven to improve ball striking on quite a few players, then there is something real there. Is it for everyone? No, of course not. Are we suggesting every amateur learning the game do this? Of course not. But it is something that may work.

> > >

> > > There’s a lot of different swings that can result in the same impact for sure. When someone is a double digit HC no one is gonna believe they’re a good ball striker and just suck at everything else. It’s ridiculous. There is absolutely no benefit to playing an MB if you don’t pound that pea size sweet spot like it’s almost an afterthought. As soon as someone starts talking about a miss or they focus more or “it just works for me” you know they’re just blowing smoke.

> >

> > First of all i never implied someone game blades. Im saying you can have a range session with a blade and it CAN help you find that so called pea size spot. cant speak for a double digit handicap, but im scratch and i can tell you it works for me. You can think im blowin smoke and that fine. I have my theory and you can have yours. I think some of yall need to rewind back 30-40 years and hit those blades. People like me learned to play on those clubs. The modern blade is so much easier to hit its not even funny. Training like this is done all over the sports world. Ever hear of the baseball players hitting with sticks? Same thing. It just raises your awareness and hand eye coordination. But no baseball player is batting in a game with a stick.

>

> You’re a scratch golfer so I wouldn’t think it pertains to you but your story still has holes. If you’re a scratch golfer why do you need an MB as a training aid when you’re gonna find the center of the face a good bit regardless of what you use. You can keep throwing useless analogies in as well but I guarantee most mid handicaps aren’t gonna improve ball striking just by using an MB to practice with. If that were the case there wouldn’t be so many mid cap MB users on here trying to defend their absurd reasoning on a daily basis. I mean I assume they practice and have been playing for awhile but they’re still mid caps. Maybe they need an extra teeny tiny baby blade to practice with.

 

@BiggErn , I've answered your question and explained how it can be beneficial. And I certainly have never claimed that anyone should "JUST use an MB blade to practice with."

 

By your logic (and some of the others here) no one should ever integrate a training aid of any type into his practice routine.

 

(and BTW, just to remind you, I dont PLAY blades, but I do believe they CAN be beneficial as a practice tool in helping some to improve their swing)

[Red4282]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Red4282 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @Red4282 said:

> > > > @chisag

> > > > Thats the beauty of golf man, theres so many different ways to play it and get better. So many different swing method theories, none are absolute in being the best. If playing blades has proven to improve ball striking on quite a few players, then there is something real there. Is it for everyone? No, of course not. Are we suggesting every amateur learning the game do this? Of course not. But it is something that may work.

> > >

> > > There’s a lot of different swings that can result in the same impact for sure. When someone is a double digit HC no one is gonna believe they’re a good ball striker and just suck at everything else. It’s ridiculous. There is absolutely no benefit to playing an MB if you don’t pound that pea size sweet spot like it’s almost an afterthought. As soon as someone starts talking about a miss or they focus more or “it just works for me” you know they’re just blowing smoke.

> >

> > First of all i never implied someone game blades. Im saying you can have a range session with a blade and it CAN help you find that so called pea size spot. cant speak for a double digit handicap, but im scratch and i can tell you it works for me. You can think im blowin smoke and that fine. I have my theory and you can have yours. I think some of yall need to rewind back 30-40 years and hit those blades. People like me learned to play on those clubs. The modern blade is so much easier to hit its not even funny. Training like this is done all over the sports world. Ever hear of the baseball players hitting with sticks? Same thing. It just raises your awareness and hand eye coordination. But no baseball player is batting in a game with a stick.

>

> You’re a scratch golfer so I wouldn’t think it pertains to you but your story still has holes. If you’re a scratch golfer why do you need an MB as a training aid when you’re gonna find the center of the face a good bit regardless of what you use. You can keep throwing useless analogies in as well but I guarantee most mid handicaps aren’t gonna improve ball striking just by using an MB to practice with. If that were the case there wouldn’t be so many mid cap MB users on here trying to defend their absurd reasoning on a daily basis. I mean I assume they practice and have been playing for awhile but they’re still mid caps. Maybe they need an extra teeny tiny baby blade to practice with.

 

Ok, well for example i was gaming srixon 765s for past year, id say most would call those players cavities. I didnt have any issues with striking them or so i thought, but was hitting the ball a little too high. Picked up a set of mizzy 900t and instantly felt the slight toe strike, put some face tape down and confirmed this. I guarantee i was striking the 765s toe side for a while but it just wasnt that harsh , and results were still pretty good, so i didnt really blink twice. After a range session or two with the new irons im re finding center again. I cant speak for others on here, only myself. I would say ball striking isnt a total indication of score like u say. Heck ive been toeing iron shots for months apparently and still shooting near par. I know several very good strikers that are about a 10 cap solely because of short game as well.

[dpb5031]

> @KMeloney said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > That said, practicing with a demanding thin soled blade can be beneficial in developing good swing mechanics for the multiple reasons I've stated in my previous post above. Ya just cant fake it with a blade, whereas most variations of modern GI clubs are designed to cover your a$$ and mask swing flaws.

>

> So, WHY would someone bother doing this? Why would you practice with something "more demanding" only to go and play with clubs with different characteristics? How will you know how the swings with the demanding clubs will translate when you're playing with clubs with different characteristics?

>

> This isn't like training with a parachute on so that you run faster when you're not wearing it. This is about trying to know exactly what shot you'll hit when you intend to hit it. Using different clubs for practice and play makes no sense.

>

> Has anyone EVER walked off the course saying, "Sure, he beat me pretty good -- but I was playing with blades, and he wasn't, so..."?

 

Completely illogical. It's almost exactly like a runner training with a parachute.

 

I've explained how and why practicing with a blade can help one to improve actual swing mechanics. Once grooved in practice, those improvements carry over, no matter the type of club used.

 

That's not to say you dont also practice with the clubs you intend to put into play.

[thejuice]

Only on WRX is a 12 handicap considered mid-high. Smh

[BiggErn]

> @Red4282 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Red4282 said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @Red4282 said:

> > > > > @chisag

> > > > > Thats the beauty of golf man, theres so many different ways to play it and get better. So many different swing method theories, none are absolute in being the best. If playing blades has proven to improve ball striking on quite a few players, then there is something real there. Is it for everyone? No, of course not. Are we suggesting every amateur learning the game do this? Of course not. But it is something that may work.

> > > >

> > > > There’s a lot of different swings that can result in the same impact for sure. When someone is a double digit HC no one is gonna believe they’re a good ball striker and just suck at everything else. It’s ridiculous. There is absolutely no benefit to playing an MB if you don’t pound that pea size sweet spot like it’s almost an afterthought. As soon as someone starts talking about a miss or they focus more or “it just works for me” you know they’re just blowing smoke.

> > >

> > > First of all i never implied someone game blades. Im saying you can have a range session with a blade and it CAN help you find that so called pea size spot. cant speak for a double digit handicap, but im scratch and i can tell you it works for me. You can think im blowin smoke and that fine. I have my theory and you can have yours. I think some of yall need to rewind back 30-40 years and hit those blades. People like me learned to play on those clubs. The modern blade is so much easier to hit its not even funny. Training like this is done all over the sports world. Ever hear of the baseball players hitting with sticks? Same thing. It just raises your awareness and hand eye coordination. But no baseball player is batting in a game with a stick.

> >

> > You’re a scratch golfer so I wouldn’t think it pertains to you but your story still has holes. If you’re a scratch golfer why do you need an MB as a training aid when you’re gonna find the center of the face a good bit regardless of what you use. You can keep throwing useless analogies in as well but I guarantee most mid handicaps aren’t gonna improve ball striking just by using an MB to practice with. If that were the case there wouldn’t be so many mid cap MB users on here trying to defend their absurd reasoning on a daily basis. I mean I assume they practice and have been playing for awhile but they’re still mid caps. Maybe they need an extra teeny tiny baby blade to practice with.

>

> Ok, well for example i was gaming srixon 765s for past year, id say most would call those players cavities. I didnt have any issues with striking them or so i thought, but was hitting the ball a little too high. Picked up a set of mizzy 900t and instantly felt the slight toe strike, put some face tape down and confirmed this. I guarantee i was striking the 765s toe side for a while but it just wasnt that harsh , and results were still pretty good, so i didnt really blink twice. After a range session or two with the new irons im re finding center again. I cant speak for others on here, only myself. I would say ball striking isnt a total indication of score like u say. Heck ive been toeing iron shots for months apparently and still shooting near par. I know several very good strikers that are about a 10 cap solely because of short game as well.

 

So for a year you never looked at your club to see where you was striking it on the face. Lol ok. Maybe I’m the only one that does it on almost every shot that comes of perfect or otherwise. If you know several good ball strikers that are good because of their short game maybe they aren’t that good of ball strikers.

[BiggErn]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @KMeloney said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > That said, practicing with a demanding thin soled blade can be beneficial in developing good swing mechanics for the multiple reasons I've stated in my previous post above. Ya just cant fake it with a blade, whereas most variations of modern GI clubs are designed to cover your a$$ and mask swing flaws.

> >

> > So, WHY would someone bother doing this? Why would you practice with something "more demanding" only to go and play with clubs with different characteristics? How will you know how the swings with the demanding clubs will translate when you're playing with clubs with different characteristics?

> >

> > This isn't like training with a parachute on so that you run faster when you're not wearing it. This is about trying to know exactly what shot you'll hit when you intend to hit it. Using different clubs for practice and play makes no sense.

> >

> > Has anyone EVER walked off the course saying, "Sure, he beat me pretty good -- but I was playing with blades, and he wasn't, so..."?

>

> Completely illogical. It's almost exactly like a runner training with a parachute.

>

> I've explained how and why practicing with a blade can help one to improve actual swing mechanics. Once grooved in practice, those improvements carry over, no matter the type of club used.

>

> That's not to say you dont also practice with the clubs you intend to put into play.

 

Such bull. What mechanics does putting an MB in your hand automatically change? A club that’s 3 or 4mm shorter heel to toe doesn’t make you swing differently to hit the middle of the face. Maybe some guys should use shock therapy to stop hitting bad shots. I’m sure that would work.

[Red4282]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @KMeloney said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > That said, practicing with a demanding thin soled blade can be beneficial in developing good swing mechanics for the multiple reasons I've stated in my previous post above. Ya just cant fake it with a blade, whereas most variations of modern GI clubs are designed to cover your a$$ and mask swing flaws.

> >

> > So, WHY would someone bother doing this? Why would you practice with something "more demanding" only to go and play with clubs with different characteristics? How will you know how the swings with the demanding clubs will translate when you're playing with clubs with different characteristics?

> >

> > This isn't like training with a parachute on so that you run faster when you're not wearing it. This is about trying to know exactly what shot you'll hit when you intend to hit it. Using different clubs for practice and play makes no sense.

> >

> > Has anyone EVER walked off the course saying, "Sure, he beat me pretty good -- but I was playing with blades, and he wasn't, so..."?

>

> Completely illogical. It's almost exactly like a runner training with a parachute.

>

> I've explained how and why practicing with a blade can help one to improve actual swing mechanics. Once grooved in practice, those improvements carry over, no matter the type of club used.

>

> That's not to say you dont also practice with the clubs you intend to put into play.

 

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Red4282 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @Red4282 said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @Red4282 said:

> > > > > > @chisag

> > > > > > Thats the beauty of golf man, theres so many different ways to play it and get better. So many different swing method theories, none are absolute in being the best. If playing blades has proven to improve ball striking on quite a few players, then there is something real there. Is it for everyone? No, of course not. Are we suggesting every amateur learning the game do this? Of course not. But it is something that may work.

> > > > >

> > > > > There’s a lot of different swings that can result in the same impact for sure. When someone is a double digit HC no one is gonna believe they’re a good ball striker and just suck at everything else. It’s ridiculous. There is absolutely no benefit to playing an MB if you don’t pound that pea size sweet spot like it’s almost an afterthought. As soon as someone starts talking about a miss or they focus more or “it just works for me” you know they’re just blowing smoke.

> > > >

> > > > First of all i never implied someone game blades. Im saying you can have a range session with a blade and it CAN help you find that so called pea size spot. cant speak for a double digit handicap, but im scratch and i can tell you it works for me. You can think im blowin smoke and that fine. I have my theory and you can have yours. I think some of yall need to rewind back 30-40 years and hit those blades. People like me learned to play on those clubs. The modern blade is so much easier to hit its not even funny. Training like this is done all over the sports world. Ever hear of the baseball players hitting with sticks? Same thing. It just raises your awareness and hand eye coordination. But no baseball player is batting in a game with a stick.

> > >

> > > You’re a scratch golfer so I wouldn’t think it pertains to you but your story still has holes. If you’re a scratch golfer why do you need an MB as a training aid when you’re gonna find the center of the face a good bit regardless of what you use. You can keep throwing useless analogies in as well but I guarantee most mid handicaps aren’t gonna improve ball striking just by using an MB to practice with. If that were the case there wouldn’t be so many mid cap MB users on here trying to defend their absurd reasoning on a daily basis. I mean I assume they practice and have been playing for awhile but they’re still mid caps. Maybe they need an extra teeny tiny baby blade to practice with.

> >

> > Ok, well for example i was gaming srixon 765s for past year, id say most would call those players cavities. I didnt have any issues with striking them or so i thought, but was hitting the ball a little too high. Picked up a set of mizzy 900t and instantly felt the slight toe strike, put some face tape down and confirmed this. I guarantee i was striking the 765s toe side for a while but it just wasnt that harsh , and results were still pretty good, so i didnt really blink twice. After a range session or two with the new irons im re finding center again. I cant speak for others on here, only myself. I would say ball striking isnt a total indication of score like u say. Heck ive been toeing iron shots for months apparently and still shooting near par. I know several very good strikers that are about a 10 cap solely because of short game as well.

>

> So for a year you never looked at your club to see where you was striking it on the face. Lol ok. Maybe I’m the only one that does it on almost every shot that comes of perfect or otherwise. If you know several good ball strikers that are good because of their short game maybe they aren’t that good of ball strikers.

 

No no, they are 10 caps because their short game isnt great. Did i look at my faces? Eh i mean sometimes... but there wasnt always a mark. why would u look at your face after a flush shot? That really makes no sense to me anyways. Maybe it has something to do with where i play, but my ball hardly ever leaves a strike mark on my club.

[Red4282]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @KMeloney said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > That said, practicing with a demanding thin soled blade can be beneficial in developing good swing mechanics for the multiple reasons I've stated in my previous post above. Ya just cant fake it with a blade, whereas most variations of modern GI clubs are designed to cover your a$$ and mask swing flaws.

> > >

> > > So, WHY would someone bother doing this? Why would you practice with something "more demanding" only to go and play with clubs with different characteristics? How will you know how the swings with the demanding clubs will translate when you're playing with clubs with different characteristics?

> > >

> > > This isn't like training with a parachute on so that you run faster when you're not wearing it. This is about trying to know exactly what shot you'll hit when you intend to hit it. Using different clubs for practice and play makes no sense.

> > >

> > > Has anyone EVER walked off the course saying, "Sure, he beat me pretty good -- but I was playing with blades, and he wasn't, so..."?

> >

> > Completely illogical. It's almost exactly like a runner training with a parachute.

> >

> > I've explained how and why practicing with a blade can help one to improve actual swing mechanics. Once grooved in practice, those improvements carry over, no matter the type of club used.

> >

> > That's not to say you dont also practice with the clubs you intend to put into play.

>

> Such bull. What mechanics does putting an MB in your hand automatically change? A club that’s 3 or 4mm shorter heel to toe doesn’t make you swing differently to hit the middle of the face. Maybe some guys should use shock therapy to stop hitting bad shots. I’m sure that would work.

 

 

Its not bull at all. You cant say for sure it changes mechanics or not. So yea... people respond to different things in different ways. But if someone’s consistently heeling or toeing a club, one naturally might change posture or stance to get away from that strike. Thats just one example. Every good player and ball striker started out NOT being a good striker. They learned it along the way, wether it was mechanics, posture or just practicing hand eye coordination. All im saying is for some, a blade can accelerate that ball striking process. For me, it keeps it in check.

[mahonie]

> @Red4282 said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @KMeloney said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > That said, practicing with a demanding thin soled blade can be beneficial in developing good swing mechanics for the multiple reasons I've stated in my previous post above. Ya just cant fake it with a blade, whereas most variations of modern GI clubs are designed to cover your a$$ and mask swing flaws.

> > >

> > > So, WHY would someone bother doing this? Why would you practice with something "more demanding" only to go and play with clubs with different characteristics? How will you know how the swings with the demanding clubs will translate when you're playing with clubs with different characteristics?

> > >

> > > This isn't like training with a parachute on so that you run faster when you're not wearing it. This is about trying to know exactly what shot you'll hit when you intend to hit it. Using different clubs for practice and play makes no sense.

> > >

> > > Has anyone EVER walked off the course saying, "Sure, he beat me pretty good -- but I was playing with blades, and he wasn't, so..."?

> >

> > Completely illogical. It's almost exactly like a runner training with a parachute.

> >

> > I've explained how and why practicing with a blade can help one to improve actual swing mechanics. Once grooved in practice, those improvements carry over, no matter the type of club used.

> >

> > That's not to say you dont also practice with the clubs you intend to put into play.

>

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Red4282 said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @Red4282 said:

> > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > @Red4282 said:

> > > > > > > @chisag

> > > > > > > Thats the beauty of golf man, theres so many different ways to play it and get better. So many different swing method theories, none are absolute in being the best. If playing blades has proven to improve ball striking on quite a few players, then there is something real there. Is it for everyone? No, of course not. Are we suggesting every amateur learning the game do this? Of course not. But it is something that may work.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There’s a lot of different swings that can result in the same impact for sure. When someone is a double digit HC no one is gonna believe they’re a good ball striker and just suck at everything else. It’s ridiculous. There is absolutely no benefit to playing an MB if you don’t pound that pea size sweet spot like it’s almost an afterthought. As soon as someone starts talking about a miss or they focus more or “it just works for me” you know they’re just blowing smoke.

> > > > >

> > > > > First of all i never implied someone game blades. Im saying you can have a range session with a blade and it CAN help you find that so called pea size spot. cant speak for a double digit handicap, but im scratch and i can tell you it works for me. You can think im blowin smoke and that fine. I have my theory and you can have yours. I think some of yall need to rewind back 30-40 years and hit those blades. People like me learned to play on those clubs. The modern blade is so much easier to hit its not even funny. Training like this is done all over the sports world. Ever hear of the baseball players hitting with sticks? Same thing. It just raises your awareness and hand eye coordination. But no baseball player is batting in a game with a stick.

> > > >

> > > > You’re a scratch golfer so I wouldn’t think it pertains to you but your story still has holes. If you’re a scratch golfer why do you need an MB as a training aid when you’re gonna find the center of the face a good bit regardless of what you use. You can keep throwing useless analogies in as well but I guarantee most mid handicaps aren’t gonna improve ball striking just by using an MB to practice with. If that were the case there wouldn’t be so many mid cap MB users on here trying to defend their absurd reasoning on a daily basis. I mean I assume they practice and have been playing for awhile but they’re still mid caps. Maybe they need an extra teeny tiny baby blade to practice with.

> > >

> > > Ok, well for example i was gaming srixon 765s for past year, id say most would call those players cavities. I didnt have any issues with striking them or so i thought, but was hitting the ball a little too high. Picked up a set of mizzy 900t and instantly felt the slight toe strike, put some face tape down and confirmed this. I guarantee i was striking the 765s toe side for a while but it just wasnt that harsh , and results were still pretty good, so i didnt really blink twice. After a range session or two with the new irons im re finding center again. I cant speak for others on here, only myself. I would say ball striking isnt a total indication of score like u say. Heck ive been toeing iron shots for months apparently and still shooting near par. I know several very good strikers that are about a 10 cap solely because of short game as well.

> >

> > So for a year you never looked at your club to see where you was striking it on the face. Lol ok. Maybe I’m the only one that does it on almost every shot that comes of perfect or otherwise. If you know several good ball strikers that are good because of their short game maybe they aren’t that good of ball strikers.

>

> No no, they are 10 caps because their short game isnt great. Did i look at my faces? Eh i mean sometimes... but there wasnt always a mark. why would u look at your face after a flush shot? That really makes no sense to me anyways. Maybe it has something to do with where i play, but my ball hardly ever leaves a strike mark on my club.

 

The only reason to look at the face after a shot is because you have no idea where on the face contact was made.

[mahonie]

> @chisag said:

> > @mahonie said:

> > > @xyckin said:

> > > I did not foresee such hostility in this thread :o

> >

> > Always the same when you get @BiggErn, @balls_deep ‘n @chisag...they spend so much time together in these types of threads I guess they never actually play golf ?

>

> ... I played yesterday with my Z Forged and today with P790's. Wind was 20mph so the reduced spin of the P790's was nice. I have also never read the MB fluffier thread. And in this thread I just said an MB won't make you a better ball striker, better swings make you a better ball striker. But this game is so mental and if someone thinks an MB will help them improve, it certainly can do just that. But that is a discipline issue not a performance issue. Once I add anything like Annika or Freddie are great ball strikers with GI irons and get all the feedback they need from them, the MB zealots heads explode. I put the Discotti dude on ignore long ago but you at least are more reasonable so I suffer your ignorance. ;)

>

 

Thanks for suffering my ignorance - much appreciated. You’re missing the point of the whole argument perhaps through your own ignorance? I’ll try again. Training with an MB can make your swing better and make you a better ball-striker. The closer the strike is to the sweetspot the better, I think we can agree on that? I can tell when my mishit with my MP4s is 1/4” or 1/8” with my Mac MT Pros it’s not so discernible so that 1/4” miss feels pretty good and I’ve no inclination to improve on it. With the MP4s I automatically adjust my set up in order to get closer to the sweetspot because I don’t want to feel that twist of the grip or harsh vibration through my hands again. Sometimes it’s just a matter of moving a fraction closer to the ball in my set up to get the clubhead swinging on the correct path. This leads to a better swing and better ball-striking for me...that is all.

[James the Hogan Fan]

> @xyckin said:

> I did not foresee such hostility in this thread :o

 

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous of which is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well known is this: never start a thread involving blades and GI's on wrx!

[dpb5031]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @KMeloney said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > That said, practicing with a demanding thin soled blade can be beneficial in developing good swing mechanics for the multiple reasons I've stated in my previous post above. Ya just cant fake it with a blade, whereas most variations of modern GI clubs are designed to cover your a$$ and mask swing flaws.

> > >

> > > So, WHY would someone bother doing this? Why would you practice with something "more demanding" only to go and play with clubs with different characteristics? How will you know how the swings with the demanding clubs will translate when you're playing with clubs with different characteristics?

> > >

> > > This isn't like training with a parachute on so that you run faster when you're not wearing it. This is about trying to know exactly what shot you'll hit when you intend to hit it. Using different clubs for practice and play makes no sense.

> > >

> > > Has anyone EVER walked off the course saying, "Sure, he beat me pretty good -- but I was playing with blades, and he wasn't, so..."?

> >

> > Completely illogical. It's almost exactly like a runner training with a parachute.

> >

> > I've explained how and why practicing with a blade can help one to improve actual swing mechanics. Once grooved in practice, those improvements carry over, no matter the type of club used.

> >

> > That's not to say you dont also practice with the clubs you intend to put into play.

>

> Such bull. What mechanics does putting an MB in your hand automatically change? A club that’s 3 or 4mm shorter heel to toe doesn’t make you swing differently to hit the middle of the face. Maybe some guys should use shock therapy to stop hitting bad shots. I’m sure that would work.

 

Since you're asking, maybe try reading since your question has already been answered. (and BTW, Inever claimed that it was "automatic")

 

I've already written it out explicitly in prior posts in this thread. If after you've read it, you'd like me to elaborate I'd be happy to do so, but I'm not going to re-write it if you are too lazy to flip back a page or two to view the very thorough explanation.

[dpb5031]

> @chisag said:

> > @bodhi555 said:

> > > @chippa13 said:

> > > I said it was folly, and I stand by it. If you don't practice what you play then how can you take that session to the course?

> >

> > Quite easily - I would have thought you'd put the same swing on any 6 iron, be it a blade, CB, SGI or whatever.

>

>

> ... Obviously you are going to get different trajectories and different spin with different types of irons. This can and does effect your swing. Hitting the ball lower than normal, most will adjust their swing to get the trajectory they are used to seeing. When fitting Tour Pro's shaft OEMs never have them hit more than 2 to 3 shots before changing shafts if the results aren't what they are looking for, as Pro's will manipulate their swing to get the trajectory they desire.

 

Funny, this post (above by @chisag ) 100% supports what I've been saying as to WHY practicing with a demanding MB blade can be beneficial.

 

He's acknowledging that some players can and will alter their swings when a different club is placed in their hands. EXACTLY the same principle I've stated about blades.

 

Further, the changes that an MB blade encourages to launch the ball effectively are all positive and fully transferable (with some awareness & intent) once you go back to your more forgiving clubs:

- precision of strike (acute awareness)

- delivery of square to path clubface

- forward shaft lean at impact

- sufficient shallowness of delivery

- ball compression

- sufficient speed required to launch and achieve expected distance

- ideal turf interaction/divot patterns

 

MB blades require you do all of these things BETTER to achieve decent ball flights. With some knowledge and intent, a player can alter his swing for the better by using this magnified feedback

 

Most GI clubs cover up flaws/mistakes that blades will not let you get away with. Heck, you guys are the ones arguing that they're more helpful for "scoring" on the course for the same reasons.

 

Blades demand that you do MORE THINGS RIGHT in your swing to achieve sufficient results. Get to consistently flushing a blade, producing ideal ball flight and distance with some nice bacon strip divots and the swing modifications you've made to accomplish this are easily transferable back to your GI clubs. You'll get a boost in confidence to boot!

 

Again, @chisag above points out that players can (and do) change the way they swing the club depending on the equipment placed in their hands. His own words support what I've been saying 100%.

 

 

[mahonie]

@dpb5031 thank you for expressing with eloquence and clarity exactly what I’ve been trying to get across...your posts are spot on!!

[dpb5031]

> @mahonie said:

> @dpb5031 thank you for expressing with eloquence and clarity exactly what I’ve been trying to get across...your posts are spot on!!

 

TY ?! It's pretty clear that some people don't read at all or just selectively infer what they'd like to support their views so they can continue with the flippant and condascending retorts.

[chippa13]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @chisag said:

> > > @bodhi555 said:

> > > > @chippa13 said:

> > > > I said it was folly, and I stand by it. If you don't practice what you play then how can you take that session to the course?

> > >

> > > Quite easily - I would have thought you'd put the same swing on any 6 iron, be it a blade, CB, SGI or whatever.

> >

> >

> > ... Obviously you are going to get different trajectories and different spin with different types of irons. This can and does effect your swing. Hitting the ball lower than normal, most will adjust their swing to get the trajectory they are used to seeing. When fitting Tour Pro's shaft OEMs never have them hit more than 2 to 3 shots before changing shafts if the results aren't what they are looking for, as Pro's will manipulate their swing to get the trajectory they desire.

>

> Funny, this post (above by @chisag ) 100% supports what I've been saying as to WHY practicing with a demanding MB blade can be beneficial.

>

> He's acknowledging that some players can and will alter their swings when a different club is placed in their hands. EXACTLY the same principle I've stated about blades.

>

> Further, the changes that an MB blade encourages to launch the ball effectively are all positive and fully transferable (with some awareness & intent) once you go back to your more forgiving clubs:

> - precision of strike (acute awareness)

> - delivery of square to path clubface

> - forward shaft lean at impact

> - sufficient shallowness of delivery

> - ball compression

> - sufficient speed required to launch and achieve expected distance

> - ideal turf interaction/divot patterns

>

> MB blades require you do all of these things BETTER to achieve decent ball flights. With some knowledge and intent, a player can alter his swing for the better by using this magnified feedback

>

> Most GI clubs cover up flaws/mistakes that blades will not let you get away with. Heck, you guys are the ones arguing that they're more helpful for "scoring" on the course for the same reasons.

>

> Blades demand that you do MORE THINGS RIGHT in your swing to achieve sufficient results. Get to consistently flushing a blade, producing ideal ball flight and distance with some nice bacon strip divots and the swing modifications you've made to accomplish this are easily transferable back to your GI clubs. You'll get a boost in confidence to boot!

>

> Again, @chisag above points out that players can (and do) change the way they swing the club depending on the equipment placed in their hands. His own words support what I've been saying 100%.

>

>

 

Sure, except you 'll be swinging a different shaft and head weight than what you play so then you'll spend 1/2 the round "subconciously re-adapting" to your gamer clubs.

[Tree Levino]

> @chippa13 said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @chisag said:

> > > > @bodhi555 said:

> > > > > @chippa13 said:

> > > > > I said it was folly, and I stand by it. If you don't practice what you play then how can you take that session to the course?

> > > >

> > > > Quite easily - I would have thought you'd put the same swing on any 6 iron, be it a blade, CB, SGI or whatever.

> > >

> > >

> > > ... Obviously you are going to get different trajectories and different spin with different types of irons. This can and does effect your swing. Hitting the ball lower than normal, most will adjust their swing to get the trajectory they are used to seeing. When fitting Tour Pro's shaft OEMs never have them hit more than 2 to 3 shots before changing shafts if the results aren't what they are looking for, as Pro's will manipulate their swing to get the trajectory they desire.

> >

> > Funny, this post (above by @chisag ) 100% supports what I've been saying as to WHY practicing with a demanding MB blade can be beneficial.

> >

> > He's acknowledging that some players can and will alter their swings when a different club is placed in their hands. EXACTLY the same principle I've stated about blades.

> >

> > Further, the changes that an MB blade encourages to launch the ball effectively are all positive and fully transferable (with some awareness & intent) once you go back to your more forgiving clubs:

> > - precision of strike (acute awareness)

> > - delivery of square to path clubface

> > - forward shaft lean at impact

> > - sufficient shallowness of delivery

> > - ball compression

> > - sufficient speed required to launch and achieve expected distance

> > - ideal turf interaction/divot patterns

> >

> > MB blades require you do all of these things BETTER to achieve decent ball flights. With some knowledge and intent, a player can alter his swing for the better by using this magnified feedback

> >

> > Most GI clubs cover up flaws/mistakes that blades will not let you get away with. Heck, you guys are the ones arguing that they're more helpful for "scoring" on the course for the same reasons.

> >

> > Blades demand that you do MORE THINGS RIGHT in your swing to achieve sufficient results. Get to consistently flushing a blade, producing ideal ball flight and distance with some nice bacon strip divots and the swing modifications you've made to accomplish this are easily transferable back to your GI clubs. You'll get a boost in confidence to boot!

> >

> > Again, @chisag above points out that players can (and do) change the way they swing the club depending on the equipment placed in their hands. His own words support what I've been saying 100%.

> >

> >

>

> Sure, except you 'll be swinging a different shaft and head weight than what you play so then you'll spend 1/2 the round "subconciously re-adapting" to your gamer clubs.

 

Not necessarily. I used to practice with a blade with the exact same shaft as I gamed. Obviously you don't want to be gaming senior graphites and practicing with a blade/DG X7 combo.

[ian-500]

I've returned to blades (Epon AF-Tour) within the last 2 months. Has my ball striking and scores improved......no, but it/they haven't gotten worse either. The main reasons I went back to MB's is because they look and feel absolutely fantastic. OP, play what you like and like what you play. Enjoy them. I'm a 12hcp.

[bigred90gt]

One thing to consider is the location of the sweet spot on a blade is typically closer to the hosel than on a GI club. If you hone your ball striking and set-up to hit the sweet spot on a blade, you will miss with the GI and need to adjust accordingly.

[chippa13]

That is one of the other things that crossed my mind, one would be catching the GIs much closer to the heel than they would want.

[lenman73]

Wow. Looks like tiger doesn't hit his blade towards the heal. What a hack !!

 

 

 

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