Bigger iron = easier to hit?

[bladehunter]

First I need you to explain what you’re talking about ?

 

theres been no suggestion of a magic quantity in size either way. Just one camp claiming bigger. One smaller. Than what ? Is that your question ? I have no idea. But I’d counter and ask bigger. Bigger than what ?

im Not in the smaller is best for all camp. In fact I don’t think anyone is in that camp. I’m in the “play what YOU want “ camp , with the addendum of “ don’t tell me that your choice is best “. Sorry if there was confusion. I’ve never suggested that all should play small. Just that the choice be recognized as better for some. And handicap has little to do with who it's best for. Sometimes it correlates but not always at all. Either way.

[tobiasjd]

The real question is why do people play massive hideous looking mallet putters over the simple, elegant blade putter. The putting stroke is the smallest, simplest of all swings to perform.

[ode1]

"Its about how a smaller clubhead is easier to get good contact with for some folks"

I am referring to the above quote. This is what I want to know. At what point does a blade get to be too big for you where "good contact" is no longer easier? And are there other design factors that play into it? What about sole width?

I've also read, and I forget who wrote it (someone on WRX), the same sort of thing about ability to square the club face easier. I have the same question for that person.....? This person sees this and will respond.

[torbill]

 

I was down at the Ping service center in Phoenix a few weeks back. Often they have professional fitters behind the counter. The person I was dealing with told me that he was a professional fitter. He was young and highly fit, and presumably is proficient at golf or he wouldn’t be doing what he is doing for a big-time golf equipment company. I have the i500s, which have been subject to a lot of criticism on this forum. I asked him if anybody plays them. He told me that he plays them and loves them. I asked why he doesn’t play the Blueprints. He told me he can’t hit them consistently enough and that in his experience there are very, very few people who should even consider them. I should have asked his handicap, but didn’t think to do it. I’ll bet he isn’t a 10, though.

Slogans aside, it is simple physics that a high moi of inertia club is going to be more forgiving of a mishit. What any given human mind can do with this basic fact of physics is unbounded.

[bladehunter]

For me it isn’t offset , size ( necessarily ) , it’s sole design - width. As in turf interaction. I like the eye 2 wedge , pm grind etc. so ugly doesn’t scare me if it works. If I could slice a clean divot with a big iron. I’d play them. Or at least could. I can’t stand a club that bounces off the ground.

perfect example. Top 3 irons I’ve ever hit is the Vega VDC-01. Bigger iron. Bigger than ap2 anyway. Dual cavity. But it has a triple ground sole with a sharp leading edge. Still regret selling those. Can’t find another raw set like I had. Traditional oems do not make a non blunted leading edge iron anymore. Even the blue prints I’m playing had to be modified by having ping grind the leading edge sharp. I play off concrete like red clay based soil. And I’m not steep. Blunt leading edges just glide off the ground. For whatever reason. That effects contact for me. Physiological or whatever. It does.

[bladehunter]

For what it’s worth. I own a set of i500. And played them around 6 months. And have been one of the loud fans of them here ( check the threads on them ). But they aren’t Uber easy to hit. As in. I don’t find them really more forgiving that the blueprint. And due to their really high vertical center of gravity , they are harder to hit pure from a very tight hard lie. Now. Off a tee. Yes. Cannons. But that’s because you can easily get the VCOG to the equator of the ball or below.

[MtlJeff]

That was also the opening line of my Tinder profile.

 

[slimreaper30]

not just you my friend

[rt_charger]

In regards to the smaller iron being easier to square debate. For sure and certain they are due to centripedal force.

Allow me to explain, to use the ice skater analogy, they spin faster when tucked opposed to outstretched. A large blade GI has more total mass further from the hosel, a small blade has less. What's going to rotate faster? The smaller head.

[Stuart_G]

It's not really a question of relative ease between the two, but rather a question of whether the higher MOI pushes the player past their ability to compensate.

Yes, there is a potential difference in the MOI between a smaller 6i and a bigger 6i (but it's because of size, the mass is the same), but you also have to keep in mind that the smaller PW is almost 30 gm heavier than the 6i. There really is an increase in both mass and MOI. Yet that particular increase doesn't seem to give those prefering to hit the smaller heads any problems.

 

 

[bladehunter]

Pure logic makes it impossible to disagree with that. Same for a putter , and driver. Why else would 460cc heads be harder to hit a real draw with ? And that’s a known fact stated by the top players on earth. And the driving force behind most hitting fades with driver. I’m not at all saying it’s impossible , and some hooker is going to show up and say he can “sling a draw with anything” . Sure. But that’s a form of miss just like the guy who’s a slicer , the hook is just more socially acceptable. But a controlled and consistent tight ( real) draw is harder with a big head.

 

Its all part of the calculation for the tradeoffs we all make with club choices. There is no club that doesn’t require you to trade something for its perceived benefit.

[ode1]

Agreement on sole design...IMO of critical importance, even if it's a big clunky bade. Sharp leading edge is no bueno for this golfer!

[nsxguy]

"Pure logic makes it impossible to disagree with that. Same for a putter , and driver. Why else would 460cc heads be harder to hit a real draw with ? And that’s a known fact stated by the top players on earth. And the driving force behind most hitting fades with driver. I’m not at all saying it’s impossible , and some hooker is going to show up and say he can “sling a draw with anything” . Sure. But that’s a form of miss just like the guy who’s a slicer , the hook is just more socially acceptable. But a controlled and consistent tight ( real) draw is harder with a big head.Its all part of the calculation for the tradeoffs we all make with club choices. There is no club that doesn’t require you to trade something for its perceived benefit."

 

Impossible to disagree with ? Which moves faster ? Your shoulders or your clubhead ?

As for consistently drawing a larger iron head goes I might disagree with that. Many of the larger, more forgiving GI/SGI clubheads are designed to help draw the ball as most high handicappers, the target audience for these clubs, SLICE. Hitting a draw with these larger clubheads is pretty easy. Hitting FADES is very difficult.

Now a consistent tight draw" ? That would depend upon the skill level of the player, not the clubhead.

Now as for those 460CC drivers ? The higher MOI version, AKA those directed at higher handicappers (e.g. M6), have more MOI (i.e. designed to hit it straighter). All things being equal they would be harder to move either way. But all things are NOT equal and most of THEM are designed to be at least a little draw biased. I doubt there's ANY pro that can't draw one of those. That said, the "player's" version (e.g. M5) of those drivers are neutral to fade biased. They're more workable for a reason. Those may be more difficult for anybody to draw on command.

It sure ain't the skill level of pros that prevents them from drawing a 460cc driver.

[bladehunter]

i predicted you’d show up in the above post. Lol.

 

Again. I did not say “ impossible to draw “. I said most went to a fade for control. Why ? Because a draw is harder to control with the modern driver. Why ? Requires way more timing and release. Flip it around. You can aim up the left. Turn and hold on and hit a fade on command.

 

And yes. Large amounts of offset will give more time in theory to hit a draw ( GI clubs). But several claim that isn’t true. I personally can fade anything. So I can’t say one way or another. My OPINION is that a hooker may hook them more. But I don’t personally think that’s real draw bias. It just isn’t masking that persons swing flaw. Now if you tell me a guy who plays a fade can’t hold the toe off , then I consider that draw bias. I’ve hit a few 3 woods like that recently ( titleist ts3). And even then sometimes o wonder if it’s just a poor fit in shaft.

[chisag]

... I'm always a little amazed at how much personal experience colors opinions here. Obviously if "aim small miss small" works for you, it works for you. If hitting a small headed MB at the range helps you hit your players cb works for you, it works for you. If hitting a larger headed, more forgiving SGI works for you, it works for you. That does not mean it works for someone else. Teaching many different players of many different levels taught me a lot. Over simplified, I think golfers basically fall into one of two categories. They either hit around the center more often than not, or they hit it all over the face. Sure there are sub categories like always missing on the toe, but by and large you are in one camp or the other.

... This should be obvious but for every golfer there is a point of diminishing return in both playing a head that is too small or too big. The player that makes contact around the center regularly will more often than not prefer a smaller head because it clearly has some advantages. Otoh the player that miss all over the face will be better served by a larger face providing max forgiveness for toe/heel/high/low face contact. This also explains why some here love to say playing MB's isn't much more difficult than hitting GI's for a higher or mid index player. They hit the center more often than not and even though their swing or face angle is inconsistent hence their higher index, they still have great hand eye coordination. Same thing for the player that struggles with swing speed, hitting the ball high enough and/or missing the center. They would find hitting MB's darned near impossible with shots left/right/high/low and never know where their ball is going.

... Bottom line is I know what works for me, but without detailed information about your swing, contact and athletic ability, I have no idea what works for you. And most of us know golf forums deal with exaggeration about skill levels so taking some posts at face value is a fools errand. Early in my golf forum experience I put together several outings. One guy on the forum was wondering if he should tip his Speeder 757 stiff flex or play an x-flex. I put him in my 4some to see if I could possibly help him with his decision. I was shocked to see him hitting high weak slices that never carried more than 200 yds!?!? He was a good guy and I had to gingerly suggest he try a YS6 in R Flex. YS Series was pretty hot at that time so at least it was something he could consider.

... I have stated over and over again that if shooting the lowest score is your primary goal, you should play the most forgiving clubs you can effectively play. For some that is MB's and for others that is SGI's while most of us fall somewhere in between the two.

[nsxguy]

D - I guess I missed your prediction.

1 - I didn't SAY you said "impossible to draw". And I only brought up a driver since you mentioned them as this thread is about irons. and I don't know about you but with the exception of maybe Dustin Johnson, I see very few players playing a fade with their drivers unless it's a dogleg right (righties of course). Straight and dogleg left holes and they're playing a draw. Certainly not "most". If Trackman is to be believed, most (that I see) seem to hit it very straight or with a slight draw. DJ is the only guy I've seen that seems to prefer to hit fade after fade. As opposed to Jordan who hits block after block - although to be fair I hardly ever see him on TV anymore. LMAO

A - I'll give you my G20 7 iron. You try to hit a big draw with it. You'll succeed. Then try to hit the same big fade with them. You'll fail. Been there, haven't done that. LOL

[chippa13]

Just tossing this into the conversation for fun but I recall some years ago when Vijay threw one of his drivers during a tournament after a shot because he was hitting too straight with it and was struggling to put a turn on the ball.

[bladehunter]

Excellent post. Should be pinned ! I would guess that most or all here would agree with this ^. As do I.

Nothing more to argue.