Tour Pro Driving Distance

[bladehunter]

I never pretended to be the scientist to figure that out. Doesnt mean I can’t know with reasonable certainty that it’s possible and should be done.

 

look. The magic pill for a high speed player is around 14 degrees launch and 2000-2200 or so spin.( guessing ) Move the cog around to allow for enough loft to do this and not raise spin and you can have your cake and eat it too because you don’t have to raise angle of attack to achieve the launch spin combo. The extreme upward aoa is what causes the high right miss. Aka wild driver. Not the lack of spin. They are inching closer to this. Ping published some findings with Cameron champ recently that shows a lot of carry yardage he gained when they went to more loft and a much softer shaft . And he kept his angle of attack around level. He dropped spin and raised launch angle. With a different driver combo. This isn’t just better fitting. It’s another breakthrough in understanding. Taylormade followed suit with the Sim line.

I picked up launch angle and gobs of carry this winter when I swapped to the sim max at same loft as previous driver. Why ? Weight placement plus shaft. Aoa and speed remains same.

in short , of the oems can figure out how to achieve more. Surely they USga can figure out how to stop them. This isn’t flying to the moon. It doesn’t need to be aT the event testing level. It’s at the manufacturing level.

 

and sure. Gains for speed are fine. I don’t recalll any single poster arguing for handicapping someone at a certain speed. Only for moving equipment back to let that speed fit the course. The one side effect to that at the pro level is bumping some slow guys off the Sliding scale so to speak.

[duganfr]

Sure these guys can pound it. But if you pay attention, a lot of their drives stay within 10 yards of the pitch mark. I played a practice round with Min Woo Lee before he turned pro at Whirlwind golf club, here in AZ. He's not big at all but can absolutely crush it. His driving iron was my driver! I was consistently 15-25 yards behind him with my 165 ball speed. Technology helps but being physically fit and athletic maximizes that tech. In my humble opinion.

[storm319]

I think you are overestimating the impact that these microscopic changes in CG have on the final result. Basically what you are suggesting will just result in a shift to the optimal window for delivering the club which the elite players will adjust to so that effort to add in this additional hurdle would simply result in a waste of time and money.

Also, the USGA would disagree with you as they have taken a stance against any distance increases regardless of the reason. Davis has had his targets set on the ball for years and that does not look to be changing anytime soon.

[smashdn]

Logically, the ball makes sense. It is involved in every shot that is struck. It is the cheapest bit of equipment and the most cycled through.

[bladehunter]

 

my point. It’s not about the old trackman optimizer numbers. If pro golf survives this global reorganization, you will see it spread. What you think you know about AOA , spin and actual club loft is going to change for the fastest guys.

Here is link to the new ping chart. Notice how much spin is now considered optimal. Way more than before. Around 3k rpm for higher swing guys with a level AOA.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PingTour/status/1189599768823005184/photo/1

[storm319]

That is not new. Ping’s optimal launch conditions on their nFlight point of sale have historically recommended higher spin than Trackman. This is due to differences in their distance algorithms not any recent discovery.

[bladehunter]

Merely a visual aide since I can’t bring Cameron champs session to you.

 

but whatever. I grow tired of this game. You win. Tour players will not get longer than they are now. Equipment doesn’t matter , They are maxed. And we shouldn’t worry any longer. ?

 

[stingerfade]

I can carry my LW 7000 yards! Can’t wait to tell my non Golfwrx friends

[golfer07840]

I've been playing on and off since 1996 (mainly on since 2010) and I have never seen an 8i carried 170.

Now granted, I live in NJ. We aren't exactly the hot bed of elite players in the same volume as Florida, the Carolina's and California.

So these numbers often times to me, sound mythical.

[golfer07840]

At this rate, I'd just like some golf to watch. ?

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

I know people including my son who could hit an 8i that far, but why?

Haha, right. I carry all my clubs 7000 yards, but sometimes like a push cart too. Golf is supposed to be relaxing.

[golfer07840]

The golf swing hasn't changed over the years?

Seriously, pass over whatever it is you are smoking.

[scratch67]

Tighter fairways, longer rough & faster greens.

On the other hand, a bunch of birdies makes money for the networks.

[gvogel]

Please tell me, in layman's terms, how the swing has changed over the past century.

[beckk10]

hahaha why would you title the thread this way and then type that post how you did? the only tour that goes by "the tour" is the pga tour. knucklehead stuff right here.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

The fact that nowadays half those on the tour swing like Jack did in his prime, and the other half swing as well as Tiger in his, then add Tiger to the mix? Add a smidgeon of Daly on steroids for the longer hitters?

Sounds like a change to me, albeit could have been possible 30 years ago too if golf was as athletic back then as it is now?

[bladehunter]

Huh ? Tiger 1.0 has not been replicated.

 

and who are the half that swing like jack? Bubba Watson , Phil and Vijay are the closest that come to mind. But there’s is unique and rare nowadays.

[tangojay]

Funny you mention this, sometime ago, I read a forum in which members were doing the same thing, coming up with ideas to sort of "challenge" the pro's without making courses longer, the best response I read was the course today are perfect for these pro's and that they are used to these conditions. In order to challenge them the following was suggested. Have conditions in which many of us play in:

Sand Traps: Have some with less than an inch of sand in them with a hard dirt underneath. Fill some of them with a mixture of sand and dirt, have some wet some dry and some half and half

Fairways: Mow them to different heights, have some hardpan areas and some soaked, no ground under repair, give caddies a bottle of seed mix to fill in divots, if they don't fill them, oh well, huge hole there for the tourney. No ground under repair.

Tee Boxes: Don't mow them everyday, all uneven with divots left un-repaired (see fairways)

Greens: Don't mow them everyday, mow them to different heights and speeds,

Driving Range: ! piece or two piece balls.

Rough: Again, different heights and also soak some, leave others unwatered

Wont make for pretty TV but IMHO , it would be sort of fun to watch!

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Tiger’s still there right?

Obviously, you worship the oldies. I can’t argue blind worship. Lol.

[golfer07840]

Using the ground for power. No more wide to narrow or Pull the handle. No more reverse Cs. Swings are not as steep.

And that's just off the top of my head and how the swing has changed since the 70s.

[OrangeGravy]

Not only that, but that "more" money is often a temporary spike that hastens the end of making any significant money in the long run. It's a kin to buying companies and stripping them to the studs to squeeze out every ounce of short term money, then shutting the doors. Chasing the short attention span, non-core audience often leads to being forced to keep changing things every few years in hopes of keeping that audience. That non-core audience will inevitably move on to something else that catches their fancy for the next 6-18 months. It's a lose/lose unless you're trying to make as much as you can right NOW.

[bladehunter]

Exactly how nascar is now. They change the entire format every year. It’s a zoo circus with wwe intros , bikini girls , and fake fights now. All to keep the non real fan interested.

[gvogel]

What's up with the paper clips?

[stingerfade]

Hey now this is a golf forum where we talk about real sports ?

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Was starting off stating something on these lines, but decided it wasn’t “laymanny” enough. Hehe

[bladehunter]

Tell that to @Lincoln_Arcadia he says half of them now swing like jack. I still can’t get my head wrapped around that.

[gvogel]

Honestly, do you think that Bobby Jones and Sam Snead did not use the ground for power?

Or, according to modern science, you have to jump off the ground to generate power? Well, look at Joyce Wethered, Bobby Jones' model for the best swing in golf in the 1920's. She, too, just like Justin Thomas, was on her toes at impact (so is Louis Oosterhuis).

Different players get it done in different ways. Me? I don't see a whole lot of difference between Bobby Jones and Rory McIlroy, except for the fact that Jones had to master swinging a much heavier club.

[gvogel]

Can you imagine how difficult it was to play in the rain with a feathery (leather covered ball that took on water in the rain) and hickory clubs that looked like little hockey sticks, with leather grips (very slippery in the rain)?

And you long hitters are peeved at the prospect of a 10% ball rollback?

Ha!

[gvogel]

Players take the club back, then they swing it through. These days the drivers are lighter, so they can really whip it through, sometimes on their toes. Because the drivers are so big, they can drop their heads a bit and hit it on the upswing. But they do so with a penalty of loss of accuracy. Other than that, I don's see any difference in modern swings compared to Sam Snead and Ben Hogan.

You can dissect it quite a bit, but you are just adding complexity to an athletic move which should be as natural as possible. I have seen swings from a very young Rory McIlroy. He goes back, a little more upright than his current swing, and then finishes in balance just like today. Someone taught him how to put his hands on the club, and taught him how to finish in balance. The rest was natural. Lovely move.

And, by the way, I would take Bobby Jones' swing and athleticism and go on tour and win a bunch of championships. Great pivot, great hand action; natural grace.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

10% rollback won’t change my game by a huge amount? Sure, 26-28 yards on average off the tee sounds like a lot, but it really doesn’t affect my game too much. Honestly, I’d just move up a tee box and practice more with my mid irons.

As an observer, it won’t be fun. I don’t really look forward to typical 5 to 6 hour rounds.

You're right, they mostly swing better now.