What is up with Rory McIlroy?

[stinger_gc]

8 minutes ago, jmcm87 said:

That transition though... That thing has a few majors left. 

 

 

Yeah but 36 putts doesn’t win majors (2-putting every green of rd 4 of the 2022 open). According to data golf Rory lost 4.32 shots to Cam on the greens during rd 4 of the Open last year. 

[So_Cal]

46 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

Yeah but 36 putts doesn’t win majors (2-putting every green of rd 4 of the 2022 open). According to data golf Rory lost 4.32 shots to Cam on the greens during rd 4 of the Open last year. 

You’re definitely right about losing strokes.  That being said the old course is a tough one to use as the greens are so massive.  Typical tour courses would be a better comparison imo. 

[stinger_gc]

4 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

You’re definitely right about losing strokes.  That being said the old course is a tough one to use as the greens are so massive.  Typical tour courses would be a better comparison imo. 

That’s probably true. Thing is if Rory putts average Sunday he‘a in a playoff 

[So_Cal]

4 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

That’s probably true. Thing is if Rory putts average Sunday he‘a in a playoff 

He had a bunch of close ones.  Perhaps a bit of bad luck too 

[Dave230]

3 hours ago, GGTTH said:

I have it on good authority that Rory McIlroy's caddie had his stag party in Edinburgh this weekend. This may be the real reason for the WD this week. It may not be. Just saying.

Why would his caddie book his stag do for a weekend Rory has on schedule, instead of the 24-25 other weeks of the year where Rory doesn't have any events on?

[archer1]

I have always thought McIlroy cannot handle the pressure of public expectation. Three notable examples:-

 

2011 Masters - enters final round with a 4 shot lead and collapses, shooting 80.

2017 Irish Open - played at Port Stewart close to where he grew up. Tournament host but MC.

2019 Open Championship - played at Portrush. McIlroy course record holder. Ist tee, first day, tee shot OB followed by MC.

 

 

 

[Dave230]

1 hour ago, archer1 said:

I have always thought McIlroy cannot handle the pressure of public expectation. Three notable examples:-

 

2011 Masters - enters final round with a 4 shot lead and collapses, shooting 80.

2017 Irish Open - played at Port Stewart close to where he grew up. Tournament host but MC.

2019 Open Championship - played at Portrush. McIlroy course record holder. Ist tee, first day, tee shot OB followed by MC.

 

 

 

Also 2015 Irish Open, the first one he hosted at Royal County Down, shoots 79/80 first round and missed cut. But of course there are plenty of examples of him handling pressure too, if he couldn’t hack any pressure he wouldn’t have 30+ wins.

 

14 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

Yeah but 36 putts doesn’t win majors (2-putting every green of rd 4 of the 2022 open). According to data golf Rory lost 4.32 shots to Cam on the greens during rd 4 of the Open last year. 

I thought the issue was approach play as much as putting. Did not putt well but McIlroy did not hit it close enough at St Andrews. 30-40 foot birdie putts a lot of the time when you’re trying to make birdies isn’t what’s needed.

[Pastit]

1 hour ago, archer1 said:

I have always thought McIlroy cannot handle the pressure of public expectation. Three notable examples:-

 

2011 Masters - enters final round with a 4 shot lead and collapses, shooting 80.

2017 Irish Open - played at Port Stewart close to where he grew up. Tournament host but MC.

2019 Open Championship - played at Portrush. McIlroy course record holder. Ist tee, first day, tee shot OB followed by MC.

 

 

 

Whilst the above is true, I believe Rory is totally genuine about his standing in the game and that he has a problem maintaining top form. 
 

E.G. I well-remember him years ago poo-pooing comparisons folk made between he and Woods. 

[moora]

Rory’s two problems are 1) “small man syndrome” (despite what his PGA Profile height states.. cough). He always feels he has to hit it longer than anyone else, so he focuses way too much on his driver distance instead of his short game and putting and 2) his love of money, ever since he dropped his original agents and then signed up to Nike, he focuses too much on the big money events like the FedEx cup and taking the sponsorship money by playing new clubs every year that clearly don’t work for him. Maybe it was the $20m he had to pay to his former agents after the messy court case  that spurred that money focused thought process, but ironically it giving too much money to his former agents  that caused him to leave them in the first place. The LIV players taking in $100m signing on fees will just aggravate him even more, he’s no longer the big money guy.  

 

Talking of LIV, now he’s got a third problem in being self appointed spokesperson for the PGA Tour in its battle with LIV.

 

Nobody is going to care in 20 years time how long he hit the ball, how much money he made or if he helped the PGA Tour defeat the LIV threat. They’ll just think of him as the guy that Jack Nicklaus said would easily overtake his Major record, never actually delivered on that promise and currently ending up with less Majors (and Green Jackets) than Faldo.

[Dave230]

48 minutes ago, moora said:

Rory’s two problems are 1) “small man syndrome” (despite what his PGA Profile height states.. cough). He always feels he has to hit it longer than anyone else, so he focuses way too much on his driver distance instead of his short game and putting and 2) his love of money, ever since he dropped his original agents and then signed up to Nike, he focuses too much on the big money events like the FedEx cup and taking the sponsorship money by playing new clubs every year that clearly don’t work for him. Maybe it was the $20m he had to pay to his former agents after the messy court case  that spurred that money focused thought process, but ironically it giving too much money to his former agents  that caused him to leave them in the first place. The LIV players taking in $100m signing on fees will just aggravate him even more, he’s no longer the big money guy.  

I don't think that's fair, he actually putts a lot better now than he did at many points of his career. I followed him from before he had money like you said. He was a super driver of the ball when he was 14 or 15 and not the most natural putter. He's never been the best putter, there were better putters than him in the amateur game back then, and better putters all the way through his professional career. Driving has always been his advantage. Why shouldn't he try to hit it as long he can?

[moora]

1 hour ago, Dave230 said:

I don't think that's fair, he actually putts a lot better now than he did at many points of his career. I followed him from before he had money like you said. He was a super driver of the ball when he was 14 or 15 and not the most natural putter. He's never been the best putter, there were better putters than him in the amateur game back then, and better putters all the way through his professional career. Driving has always been his advantage. Why shouldn't he try to hit it as long he can?

 

A couple reasons, first driving distance doesn’t equal major wins. Looking at the Top 20 driving distances on the PGA tour (https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/101), there’s one recent major winner in the top 20, Jon Rahm, who’s dropped down to 14th. Scheffler is 21. McIlroy is no 1. Except Rory’s also ranked 167th for Driving Fairway Accuracy https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/102, lower than both Rahm (79th) and Scheffler (23rd)

 

As you’ve said, his putting was never great, but the other reason is age. The fact that McIlroy is trying to compete with younger players at driving is just a losing game. He should be using his experience and working on improving his weaknesses. He’s ranked 155th Greens in Regulation (https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/103) and 167th in Putting (https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/02564) - even worse than that well known terrible putter (well, according to this forum.. 😉 )Will Zalatoris who’s 135th.  

 

All that money, all that experience and he still focuses on being no 1 in driving distance, despite the Majors doing everything they can to limit the “bomb and gouge” approach. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to look at his stats and see where he needs to be improving, but I guess being no 1 in driving distance is good for selling TaylorMade $550+ drivers. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by moora

[archer1]

4 hours ago, Dave230 said:

Also 2015 Irish Open, the first one he hosted at Royal County Down, shoots 79/80 first round and missed cut. But of course there are plenty of examples of him handling pressure too, if he couldn’t hack any pressure he wouldn’t have 30+ wins.

 

I thought the issue was approach play as much as putting. Did not putt well but McIlroy did not hit it close enough at St Andrews. 30-40 foot birdie putts a lot of the time when you’re trying to make birdies isn’t what’s needed.

My point was not about his ability to handle pressure.

 

I think he cannot handle the pressure of public expectation. I think this year's Masters is a good example.

 

Did he rise to the challenge of winning the Grand Slam which had been publicised by the media? No, he folded.

[stinger_gc]

3 hours ago, moora said:

Rory’s two problems are 1) “small man syndrome” (despite what his PGA Profile height states.. cough). He always feels he has to hit it longer than anyone else, so he focuses way too much on his driver distance instead of his short game and putting and 2) his love of money, ever since he dropped his original agents and then signed up to Nike, he focuses too much on the big money events like the FedEx cup and taking the sponsorship money by playing new clubs every year that clearly don’t work for him. Maybe it was the $20m he had to pay to his former agents after the messy court case  that spurred that money focused thought process, but ironically it giving too much money to his former agents  that caused him to leave them in the first place. The LIV players taking in $100m signing on fees will just aggravate him even more, he’s no longer the big money guy.  

 

Talking of LIV, now he’s got a third problem in being self appointed spokesperson for the PGA Tour in its battle with LIV.

 

Nobody is going to care in 20 years time how long he hit the ball, how much money he made or if he helped the PGA Tour defeat the LIV threat. They’ll just think of him as the guy that Jack Nicklaus said would easily overtake his Major record, never actually delivered on that promise and currently ending up with less Majors (and Green Jackets) than Faldo.

 

 

This entire post made my head hurt because it’s so factually incorrect.

 

1) Rory is naturally one of the longest on tour. He’s been in the top 10 in driving distance 7 straight years. 
 

2) Rory has won 10 tournaments on the PGA Tour since he made the switch to Taylormade in 2017 and he won 2 majors w/Nike. Rory also won POY playing w Nike and taylormade clubs.

 

Rory’s issues aren’t his driving or the clubs lol

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, moora said:

 

A couple reasons, first driving distance doesn’t equal major wins. Looking at the Top 20 driving distances on the PGA tour (https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/101), there’s one recent major winner in the top 20, Jon Rahm, who’s dropped down to 14th. Scheffler is 21. McIlroy is no 1. Except Rory’s also ranked 167th for Driving Fairway Accuracy https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/102, lower than both Rahm (79th) and Scheffler (23rd)

 

As you’ve said, his putting was never great, but the other reason is age. The fact that McIlroy is trying to compete with younger players at driving is just a losing game. He should be using his experience and working on improving his weaknesses. He’s ranked 155th Greens in Regulation (https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/103) and 167th in Putting (https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/02564) - even worse than that well known terrible putter (well, according to this forum.. 😉 )Will Zalatoris who’s 135th.  

 

All that money, all that experience and he still focuses on being no 1 in driving distance, despite the Majors doing everything they can to limit the “bomb and gouge” approach. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to look at his stats and see where he needs to be improving, but I guess being no 1 in driving distance is good for selling TaylorMade $550+ drivers. 

You are spot on. I don't care what analytics say, distance without accuracy is nothing.

Chasing distance has been the bane of many careers. It seeps into your iron game which is disastrous. Do so at your own peril.....it happened to me LOL! on a lower scale of course. As far as the PGAT goes 295-305 driving average off the tee is more than enough to win any regular or major event, if it's compounded by just an above average iron game and putting performance.....IMO

 

But, like you said .....Distance sells drivers and apparently makes the USGA very nervous.🙂

[Titleist99]

59 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

 

 

This entire post made my head hurt because it’s so factually incorrect.

 

1) Rory is naturally one of the longest on tour. He’s been in the top 10 in driving distance 7 straight years. 
 

2) Rory has won 10 tournaments on the PGA Tour since he made the switch to Taylormade in 2017 and he won 2 majors w/Nike. Rory also won POY playing w Nike and taylormade clubs.

 

Rory’s issues aren’t his driving or the clubs lol

Then Rory was lying when he went on television and stated that he followed Bryson down the rabbit hole.

[Dave230]

2 hours ago, moora said:

 

A couple reasons, first driving distance doesn’t equal major wins. Looking at the Top 20 driving distances on the PGA tour (https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/101), there’s one recent major winner in the top 20, Jon Rahm, who’s dropped down to 14th. Scheffler is 21. McIlroy is no 1. Except Rory’s also ranked 167th for Driving Fairway Accuracy https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/102, lower than both Rahm (79th) and Scheffler (23rd)

 

As you’ve said, his putting was never great, but the other reason is age. The fact that McIlroy is trying to compete with younger players at driving is just a losing game. He should be using his experience and working on improving his weaknesses. He’s ranked 155th Greens in Regulation (https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/103) and 167th in Putting (https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/02564) - even worse than that well known terrible putter (well, according to this forum.. 😉 )Will Zalatoris who’s 135th.  

 

All that money, all that experience and he still focuses on being no 1 in driving distance, despite the Majors doing everything they can to limit the “bomb and gouge” approach. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to look at his stats and see where he needs to be improving, but I guess being no 1 in driving distance is good for selling TaylorMade $550+ drivers. 

I really don't think being long is an issue for the majors. He was 3rd in driving distance in 2014 and won two majors!

 

"In 2022, McIlroy won the Vardon Trophy and Byron Nelson Award for a fourth time"

 

List of players under 35 with more PGA Tour wins than McIlroy:

None

 

List of players under 35 with more majors than McIlroy:

None

 

Also last year his putting was 16th on Tour, and he putted brilliantly the event just before the Masters. He was also in the top 10 of every major last year.

 

There is very little wrong with his game overall, he's more than good enough ability-wise to win majors. At the Masters this year he hit shots he never usually hits. Pure mental mistakes. I subscribe to archer1's theory before yours:

 

2 hours ago, archer1 said:

My point was not about his ability to handle pressure.

 

I think he cannot handle the pressure of public expectation. I think this year's Masters is a good example.

 

Did he rise to the challenge of winning the Grand Slam which had been publicised by the media? No, he folded.

 

[stinger_gc]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

Then Rory was lying when he went on television and stated that he followed Bryson down the rabbit hole.

That was over 2 years ago. But it’s not like Rory’s gone from being a middle of the pack driver to a top dog. 

[Titleist99]

47 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

That was over 2 years ago. But it’s not like Rory’s gone from being a middle of the pack driver to a top dog. 

I get it. Driving may not be his sole problem but his first rounds haven't been the best....

[Golfnutgalen]

52 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

That was over 2 years ago. But it’s not like Rory’s gone from being a middle of the pack driver to a top dog. 

He definitely got longer though. Watch Tiger vs Rory in their match play battle from 2019. His driver was at 176-178 ballspeed and the tour stats had him at 179.45 for the year. Now he's at 184.64 which is nearly as high as Bryson was in his first beefed up year! (184.73 2020).

 

I thought Rory's numbers would be lower back in his Nike days, but nope they're pretty much the same at 179.73 in 2014 the year he was killing it with the Covert 2.0. and of course won consecutive majors. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Golfnutgalen

[stinger_gc]

1 hour ago, Golfnutgalen said:

He definitely got longer though. Watch Tiger vs Rory in their match play battle from 2019. His driver was at 176-178 ballspeed and the tour stats had him at 179.45 for the year. Now he's at 184.64 which is nearly as high as Bryson was in his first beefed up year! (184.73 2020).

 

I thought Rory's numbers would be lower back in his Nike days, but nope they're pretty much the same at 179.73 in 2014 the year he was killing it with the Covert 2.0. and of course won consecutive majors. 

Good point. But everyone on tour has gotten longer. In 2014 the average driving distance on tour was 289, in 2022 it was up to 300. In that span Rory’s gone from 310 to 321. It’s a combination of clubs, training, etc. Probably why the USGA is taking action 

Edited April 17, 2023 by stinger_gc

[jimecherry]

2 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

Good point. But everyone on tour has gotten longer. In 2014 the average driving distance on tour was 289, in 2022 it was up to 300. In that span Rory’s gone from 310 to 321. It’s a combination of clubs, training, etc. Probably why the USGA is taking action 

If that's total distance the PGA insistence on having the fairways firm and fast also plays a role. 

[stinger_gc]

40 minutes ago, jimecherry said:

If that's total distance the PGA insistence on having the fairways firm and fast also plays a role. 

Avg Carry distance has also increased by 8 yards since 2014. Everyone is getting longer 

[Golfnutgalen]

27 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

Avg Carry distance has also increased by 8 yards since 2014. Everyone is getting longer 

 

True, but my point was Rory had about the same ballspeed for quite a long time, a shade under 180 until the last 3 years or so. The tour as a whole got faster from 2014 to 2019, but Rory did not. 

 

Compare the tour average from 2019 vs 2022 and then Rory in the same timeframe. And Rory's another mile faster this year so far (184.64), but I'd rather use a complete season for the comparison.

 

ballspeed

Tour: 170.25 up to 171.86 (+1.61 mph)

Rory: 179.45 up to 183.43 (+3.98 mph)

Edited April 17, 2023 by Golfnutgalen

[stinger_gc]

3 hours ago, Golfnutgalen said:

 

True, but my point was Rory had about the same ballspeed for quite a long time, a shade under 180 until the last 3 years or so. The tour as a whole got faster from 2014 to 2019, but Rory did not. 

 

Compare the tour average from 2019 vs 2022 and then Rory in the same timeframe. And Rory's another mile faster this year so far (184.64), but I'd rather use a complete season for the comparison.

 

ballspeed

Tour: 170.25 up to 171.86 (+1.61 mph)

Rory: 179.45 up to 183.43 (+3.98 mph)

That’s crazy. I wonder what’s the difference between the Nike ball Rory used to play and TP-5? Summer of 2014 was the best I’ve ever seen anyone drive the ball. In the 2014 Open Rory was averaging 326 off the tee and hitting over 60% of the fairways which is crazy

Edited April 17, 2023 by stinger_gc

[Dutch1008]

8 hours ago, archer1 said:

Did he rise to the challenge of winning the Grand Slam which had been publicised by the media? No, he folded.

Yep folded, just like those weak willed hackers Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, and Phil Mickelson. God bless the interwebs, only place it's social acceptable to rag on a 1st ballot hall of famer because he's failed to accomplish something only 5 humans ever have. 🤣  

[redfirebird08]

There’s definitely a mental block at Augusta for McIlroy. Wish he was able to finish strong in 2011. The pressure builds on him every year. 

[bulls9999]

On 4/16/2023 at 12:20 PM, jmcm87 said:

That transition though... That thing has a few majors left. 

 

 

I wish I had Rory's 'problems', lol.

Edited April 18, 2023 by bulls9999

[mark m]

Are you going to compete, or what?

[archer1]

On 4/18/2023 at 5:26 AM, Dutch1008 said:

Yep folded, just like those weak willed hackers Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, and Phil Mickelson. God bless the interwebs, only place it's social acceptable to rag on a 1st ballot hall of famer because he's failed to accomplish something only 5 humans ever have. 🤣  

Comprehension not a well developed skill for you?

[GolfTurkey]

I'd imagine that Rory is not too impressed about being docked the $3 million.

 

He's probably a little burnt out and feels like he needs to give his game some attention away from competition after spending so much time being the PGA Tour's unofficial spokesperson; now they turn around and dock his money!