Hit a 43.75" driver (LST 425) today-wow!

[Pastit]

56 minutes ago, Canyonaro said:

 

I've been gaming Autoflex at 47" since July & have put up two of my best rounds ever with it. I think a lot of the guys who think they're benefiting from shorter length are really benefiting from swingweight & shaft characteristic changes (esp less toe droop). I did extensive testing & tweaking to get the Autoflex setup right. I've never been longer or straighter. But maybe some guys are just afraid of longer clubs. I've always hit driver and fairway woods well. Long & mid irons, not so much. 

Hate to ask personal questions but are you particularly tall ? Did you have to adjust lie angle ? Thanks. 

[Valtiel]

4 hours ago, Canyonaro said:

 

I've been gaming Autoflex at 47" since July & have put up two of my best rounds ever with it. I think a lot of the guys who think they're benefiting from shorter length are really benefiting from swingweight & shaft characteristic changes (esp less toe droop). I did extensive testing & tweaking to get the Autoflex setup right. I've never been longer or straighter. But maybe some guys are just afraid of longer clubs. I've always hit driver and fairway woods well. Long & mid irons, not so much. 

Most people benefit from shorter lengths pretty exclusively because the common mechanical issues that the average player has in their swing get worse as the club gets longer, and drivers have been inching towards being too long on average from a pretty objective biomechanical standpoint (45.75"). It sounds like you simply have a swing that happens to lend itself better to long clubs, which certainly can happen. 

[Caddy Carl]

23 hours ago, pccasstpro said:

I always find it funny the reaction of people when they find the center of a clubface consistently. It is only second to when they realize that they have been lied to by club manufacturers that "longer clubs" equal more distance.......... 

This!  And not only drivers…it’s so crazy to me how the industry standard of a 3 wood has crept up to 43.25-43.5”.  The past few years I’ve played my 3w at 42.25” and haven’t lost any distance off the tee, and I can actually make consistent contact off the deck.

[Nels55]

Lots of interesting comments here.  A few things that come to mind for me:

Generally speaking lighter and longer equals farther as long as it is within reason.  

Optimum club length has very little to do with a person's height it is much more a matter of skill level.  For instance Ben Hogan used very long stiff clubs to generate a bit of extra distance and he was what 5'7"?  They did not call him Bantam Ben for no reason. 

Club fitting is a bit of voodoo and getting the perfect driver is not always so easy LOL.

 

I would say that for a slow swinger with a good swing the best idea is a club of the maximum length.  For someone with speed to burn a shorter get it in play club is probably in order.  For the rest of us it is a crap shoot and whatever works go for it!

[Pastit]

6 hours ago, Caddy Carl said:

This!  And not only drivers…it’s so crazy to me how the industry standard of a 3 wood has crept up to 43.25-43.5”.  The past few years I’ve played my 3w at 42.25” and haven’t lost any distance off the tee, and I can actually make consistent contact off the deck.

I’m only 5’ 9” and just installed a Velecore 6R at 43.75 as a trial in a SIM2 13.5 D Ti. No tipping as it’s for a tight, tree-lined course needing ridiculous accuracy. It works fine off the tee of course but also off a good fairway lie - anything slightly uphill. 
 

Similarly, I’ve some 5 woods at 43”. No problem but I’m not disagreeing with you. I invariably cut-up 3 woods ( ie fade them ) intentionally with tour spoon lofts or even the 15D of tight lies. Unless one is an elite player, I’m doubtful of the wisdom of stiff shafts in 3 woods. 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Pastit
Semantics

[smg6165]

3 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Lots of interesting comments here.  A few things that come to mind for me:

Generally speaking lighter and longer equals farther as long as it is within reason.  

Optimum club length has very little to do with a person's height it is much more a matter of skill level.  For instance Ben Hogan used very long stiff clubs to generate a bit of extra distance and he was what 5'7"?  They did not call him Bantam Ben for no reason. 

Club fitting is a bit of voodoo and getting the perfect driver is not always so easy LOL.

 

I would say that for a slow swinger with a good swing the best idea is a club of the maximum length.  For someone with speed to burn a shorter get it in play club is probably in order.  For the rest of us it is a crap shoot and whatever works go for it!

club fitting is a lot of voodoo. If only manufacturers can do something to make fitting for length as easy as the screw hosel made swapping shafts.

[rsballer10]

Most of my drivers have been 44.5" to 45". I've went shorter, but honestly that's what a 3 wood is for.

 

By the time the shaft gets shortened, weight added, loft increased - you end up with a frankenwood instead of just buying a strong 3 wood. Benefit of the 3 wood is that the head actually looks the right size for a 43" shaft. Plus, I can keep a more "normal" length driver in the bag when I need to hit it long.

[Canyonaro]

14 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Most people benefit from shorter lengths pretty exclusively because the common mechanical issues that the average player has in their swing get worse as the club gets longer, and drivers have been inching towards being too long on average from a pretty objective biomechanical standpoint (45.75"). It sounds like you simply have a swing that happens to lend itself better to long clubs, which certainly can happen. 

Yeah I get steep on shorter clubs so I hit very high flying, high spinning iron shots. The longer driver helps get me flatter. I had one of my buddies who's a low trap-draw kinda guy hit my 47" 8 degree and he barely got it off the ground. 

[Canyonaro]

17 hours ago, Pastit said:

Hate to ask personal questions but are you particularly tall ? Did you have to adjust lie angle ? Thanks. 

I'm 5'10", so no I'm not tall. I did adjust lie angle a little; I was playing on the "D" (upright) setting and went to the standard one. It has increased the draw bias of my drives due to the lie angle difference. If you're hook-prone, you want to be starting with a head that has a relatively flat lie angle. Also with Callaway you can use a LH adapter and use the "D" setting to move it flatter. I considered all of those things when tweaking. Had a launch monitor, full weight kit & lead tape. I bought it fully expecting I'd end up cutting it down but found settings that really work so I'm leaving it as is. 

 

Check out the TXG YouTube videos on Autoflex if you're interested. I used their process as a guide. Also there's an Autoflex Facebook group where guys talk about their over-length builds with it. 

[Pastit]

4 hours ago, Canyonaro said:

I'm 5'10", so no I'm not tall. I did adjust lie angle a little; I was playing on the "D" (upright) setting and went to the standard one. It has increased the draw bias of my drives due to the lie angle difference. If you're hook-prone, you want to be starting with a head that has a relatively flat lie angle. Also with Callaway you can use a LH adapter and use the "D" setting to move it flatter. I considered all of those things when tweaking. Had a launch monitor, full weight kit & lead tape. I bought it fully expecting I'd end up cutting it down but found settings that really work so I'm leaving it as is. 

 

Check out the TXG YouTube videos on Autoflex if you're interested. I used their process as a guide. Also there's an Autoflex Facebook group where guys talk about their over-length builds with it. 

Thank you. I used to have issues with the old Persimmon length when I started golf, c 43.5”. Now, I can handle the TM SIM stock c 453/4 I think. I’m loathe to cut down Velecores for a shorter Driver theory. I’m 74 and am longer than when I was 35 off 8. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. But I’ve the long 13D as I said if I’ve issues in future. HNY

[Russ757]

On 12/27/2021 at 10:59 PM, Mookieb10 said:

I noticed This topic comes up on here about once a year. It’s funny cause it’s really moving against tides of lengthening driver shafts. Perhaps the responses of people on this thread is biased towards those who’ve had success with the shorter length, but there’s clearly something to this notion, especially with amateurs. 45.75” is clearly too darn long. 44.5” seems to be a nice sweet spot. 

 And yet whoa-be-eth the man who sells a driver shaft under 45" in playing length... 

[Beansy]

What length do you guys play your other fairway woods at? I play my driver at 45" and was debating on cutting it shorter but I didn't want to have my other woods to be too close in length.

[RoyalMustang]

On 12/30/2021 at 8:15 AM, Caddy Carl said:

This!  And not only drivers…it’s so crazy to me how the industry standard of a 3 wood has crept up to 43.25-43.5”.  The past few years I’ve played my 3w at 42.25” and haven’t lost any distance off the tee, and I can actually make consistent contact off the deck.

 

I agree with you there.  My 4W is 42" and it is just about perfect.  Why do I need a 280 yard 3W, unless I can't control my driver?  Today, I was working on easy swing draws and fades with the 4W, aiming for a "green" on the range at 255 and keeping the ball low.  It is exactly what I want and need from a club like this, especially off of the tee.  

 

I carried a green from 270 once with a 3W on a par 5, but it was surrounded by grass and open space. If I missed left or right, no big deal; I am still chipping and probably have a decent birdie opportunity. Sure, it was the "swing of my life" but I couldn't make that with any sort of regularity.  Throw in a greenside hazard or lake, and I am laying up.    

 

  

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, Russ757 said:

 And yet whoa-be-eth the man who sells a driver shaft under 45" in playing length... 

 

Yeah, but why?  I wonder what the stigma is.  

 

How many people are really prioritizing driving distance?  Outside of WRX?  People who want to get better at golf and take the sport seriously aren't stupid: they look the game and know that being in the fairway is far superior to being 20 yards further and behind a tree, blocked to the green.  I just don't think a lot of players come into the shop that are serious players and say "I want to out-drive my buddy at all costs".  They more likely say "I want to beat my buddy" and that means having a controllable driver, both in direction and spin.  

 

But yet drivers are sold as if driving distance was part of a golf decathlon, where driving was one event, approaches another, sand saves a 3rd, and putting a 4th.   

[Pnwpingi210]

1 hour ago, Beansy said:

What length do you guys play your other fairway woods at? I play my driver at 45" and was debating on cutting it shorter but I didn't want to have my other woods to be too close in length.

I play my g425 5 wood at 42.  It’s been as long as any 3 wood I’ve played in the past and much easier to hit. 

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, Beansy said:

What length do you guys play your other fairway woods at? I play my driver at 45" and was debating on cutting it shorter but I didn't want to have my other woods to be too close in length.

 

18 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

I agree with you there.  My 4W is 42" and it is just about perfect.  Why do I need a 280 yard 3W, unless I can't control my driver? 

 

  

I've been messing around with this quite a bit and have had the best consistency so far with shorter lengths than even I expected. 42.25" on my 3w and 41.75" on the 5w. I wouldn't worry about length gaps @Beansy, they have already gotten stretched out beyond what they should be and personally i've noticed very little difference in messing with it. The comfort/consistency potentially gained with a shorter length far outweighs whatever hypothetical speed you might be sacrificing, and for many people that speed sacrifice is pretty nonexistent. I'll need a little more testing to confirm, but shortening the length gap between my fairways to 1/2" hasn't messed with the ball speed gap between them, and my distance are still where they should be. 

[bulldog48377]

Please remember the following information if you are planning to shorten your driver, fairway woods or irons:

 

Shaft Cutting Effect:

For every 1/2” of a shaft is cut, you lose 3 swingweight points (1” shaft cut is 6 swing weight points).  You need to add 2gram of weight on the club head to move the swing weight by 1 point (heavier).  If you cut an inch, you have to add 12grams to the head to bring the swing weight points back.

 

Grip Weight Effect:

The Golf Price Velvet 60R grip is 50 grams.  The change in the grip weight by 3-4 grams will move the swingweight by 1 point.  The GP Velvet Tour 25 grip is 25 grams and it will move your swingweight by 5-7 points (heavier).  The GP Velvet 360 Lite grip is 42 grams and it will move your swingweight by 2 points (heavier).  You can use a different grips to manipulate the club swingweight.

 

Shaft Flex Effect:

If you want to shorten your driver shaft by 1” and add 12 grams, you need to also shorten your shaft at the tip.  If you just butt trim your shaft by 1” and add 12 grams, your shaft will lose its flex by at least 1/2 flex point.

 

If you want to shorten your driver or fairway wood, you need to think ahead before you butt trim your club.  It will ruin the club specifications.  Good luck!

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, bulldog48377 said:

Please remember the following information if you are planning to shorten your driver, fairway woods or irons:

 

Shaft Cutting Effect:

For every 1/2” of a shaft is cut, you lose 3 swingweight points (1” shaft cut is 6 swing weight points).  You need to add 2gram of weight on the club head to move the swing weight by 1 point (heavier).  If you cut an inch, you have to add 12grams to the head to bring the swing weight points back.

 

Grip Weight Effect:

The Golf Price Velvet 60R grip is 50 grams.  The change in the grip weight by 3-4 grams will move the swingweight by 1 point.  The GP Velvet Tour 25 grip is 25 grams and it will move your swingweight by 5-7 points (heavier).  The GP Velvet 360 Lite grip is 42 grams and it will move your swingweight by 2 points (heavier).  You can use a different grips to manipulate the club swingweight.

 

Shaft Flex Effect:

If you want to shorten your driver shaft by 1” and add 12 grams, you need to also shorten your shaft at the tip.  If you just butt trim your shaft by 1” and add 12 grams, your shaft will lose its flex by at least 1/2 flex point.

 

If you want to shorten your driver or fairway wood, you need to think ahead before you butt trim your club.  It will ruin the club specifications.  Good luck!

 

 

Swing weight is not a "holy measurement" and hardly any players is fitted to play "standard" SW value, so its no reason to reset that parameter either. The player should try to find what head WEIGHT that works the best for him on the actual club, and forget all about SW values, they belongs to the works shop, NOT the fitting area.

The rule of thumb for SW points is useless. Drivers and woods are below 2.0 grams and depending on length from 1.6 to 1.85 grams, and again, this belongs to the work shop, we shall never use any of this parameters to dial in whats right for each player.

Using grip weight to manipulate the SW scale is not a good idea. Use what ever grip you like, and use that grip from the start of tuning, and dont even think of what it does to SW values on the SW scale, it simply dont matter.

This DIY guide for tune up is all thats needed. we dont need a SW scale at all to make it, so just forget those SW values, they are for repair and duplication of specs, NOT for fitting and tune up.
 

 

[hitbombs2020]

On 12/30/2021 at 2:08 PM, rsballer10 said:

Most of my drivers have been 44.5" to 45". I've went shorter, but honestly that's what a 3 wood is for.

 

By the time the shaft gets shortened, weight added, loft increased - you end up with a frankenwood instead of just buying a strong 3 wood. Benefit of the 3 wood is that the head actually looks the right size for a 43" shaft. Plus, I can keep a more "normal" length driver in the bag when I need to hit it long.

This logic is the basis for my setup. I think for higher swing speed players(115 plus) there is a setup similar to Phil at Kiawah that can get the best of both worlds. I currently play a 46.5 inch driver which I use 4-5 times around(way more than I would a 3 or 4 iron) on wide open holes and get an extra 25-30yards.I have a Sergio Garcia type lag so when I time the longer shaft it jumps. The main tee club I use 8-10 times a round is the 300 mini with a Kuro Kage 75TX shaft tipped 1.5 inches at 43.75. I tee it low and have the confidence of a driving iron. I dropped in a 4 wood and 7 wood just for gapping then play 5-9, 47,51,55,62. This provides 20 yard gapping at the top and 15 from 5 iron down. 

[Gtyler14]

21 hours ago, Beansy said:

What length do you guys play your other fairway woods at? I play my driver at 45" and was debating on cutting it shorter but I didn't want to have my other woods to be too close in length.

I play my 3 woods at 42.5 and 5 wood at 41.5 with a 45 inch driver. Over the last 5 years I’ve crept back to a 45 inch driver from 44 but fairways are at good length for me. Tried 43 in a 3 wood but too inconsistent. 42 inch 5 wood works for me as well but 41.5 is just more normal for me so I just keep it there

[Pastit]

10 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Swing weight is not a "holy measurement" and hardly any players is fitted to play "standard" SW value, so its no reason to reset that parameter either. The player should try to find what head WEIGHT that works the best for him on the actual club, and forget all about SW values, they belongs to the works shop, NOT the fitting area.

The rule of thumb for SW points is useless. Drivers and woods are below 2.0 grams and depending on length from 1.6 to 1.85 grams, and again, this belongs to the work shop, we shall never use any of this parameters to dial in whats right for each player.

Using grip weight to manipulate the SW scale is not a good idea. Use what ever grip you like, and use that grip from the start of tuning, and dont even think of what it does to SW values on the SW scale, it simply dont matter.

This DIY guide for tune up is all thats needed. we dont need a SW scale at all to make it, so just forget those SW values, they are for repair and duplication of specs, NOT for fitting and tune up.
 

 

Sorry for being like a dog with a bone on shaft-shortening, particularly which end, but I’ve found these last 2 posts interesting but contradictory along with info from other sources. I’ve said elsewhere, longer wood shafts don’t cause me any problems. 
 

Much posting here and elsewhere suggests 1/2” shortening equals 1/2 or 1 a flex stiffer. But, if the 3” parallel tip is devoid of reinforcement, then it suggests, with adjustable hosels, one could tip trim so that the first layer of reinforcement could safely occur at the TM FCT hosel top, top-bottom Dim is c 37mm in my experience equals 1.5”. 
 

So, is it correct to say that I can tip any shaft going into a TM wood by 37mm/ 1.5” without affecting the flex ? Any further length trimming could then be at the butt.

I have been assuming in my wood-shaft installations that tip trim does affect flex. Thus, I install premium shafts with no tip trim but at least 1/2” longer than standard length. Thus leaving room to tip-trim later but I’ve never had to do this. I find a high flight useful on tree-lined courses and don’t need extra distance. 
 

Thanks again. HNY all. Fruit juice for hangovers. 
 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Pastit

[Valtiel]

5 hours ago, Pastit said:

So, is it correct to say that I can tip any shaft going into a TM wood by 37mm/ 1.5” without affecting the flex ? Any further length trimming could then be at the butt.

Equating anything related to the tip/tipping with flex as an overall measurement is always an oversimplification, but no. Tipping has an effect on flex, but NOT in the sense that it changes a shaft from one flex to another. The difference between a shaft in two different flexes is global. A stiff flex shaft is going to be stiffer across the entire length of the shaft to one degree or another over a regular flex. Tipping a regular flex shaft will make the tip section stiffer and slightly shift the tip to butt ratio (the overall stiffness difference between the softest point (tip) and stiffest point (handle)), but you're not magically changing a regular into a stiff, so this common oversimplification is misleading. Tipping is a fine tuning measure that exists in the alleyway between the two buildings that are "regular" and "stiff", if you pardon the metaphor. 

[Sean124]

Wait, am I the only one still gaming the Killer Bee?!

 

In all seriousness, my driver is 44 5/8”. Every time I get a new shaft, I try to go longer and just end up gripping down anyway. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Sean124

[Howard_Jones]

10 hours ago, Pastit said:

Sorry for being like a dog with a bone on shaft-shortening, particularly which end, but I’ve found these last 2 posts interesting but contradictory along with info from other sources. I’ve said elsewhere, longer wood shafts don’t cause me any problems. 
 

Much posting here and elsewhere suggests 1/2” shortening equals 1/2 or 1 a flex stiffer. But, if the 3” parallel tip is devoid of reinforcement, then it suggests, with adjustable hosels, one could tip trim so that the first layer of reinforcement could safely occur at the TM FCT hosel top, top-bottom Dim is c 37mm in my experience equals 1.5”. 
 

So, is it correct to say that I can tip any shaft going into a TM wood by 37mm/ 1.5” without affecting the flex ? Any further length trimming could then be at the butt.

I have been assuming in my wood-shaft installations that tip trim does affect flex. Thus, I install premium shafts with no tip trim but at least 1/2” longer than standard length. Thus leaving room to tip-trim later but I’ve never had to do this. I find a high flight useful on tree-lined courses and don’t need extra distance. 
 

Thanks again. HNY all. Fruit juice for hangovers. 
 

 

You either have bad sources of information, or misunderstood what your are reading

Think of a set of IRON shafts.
Heads goes 7 grams up to keep SW value the same since clubs is 0.5" shorter progressive
Shaft TIP goes 0.5" shorter to handle those 7 grams - butt length is equal for all

When we "soft step" or "hard step" we go "1 shaft softer or stronger", meaning we go 0.5 longer or shorter on the TIP section  but we KEEP play length the same (and SW value the same)

When we look at the SET of shafts, they do MEASURE stronger as they go shorter, but thats how that shall be, but we still say they are "the same flex"

Here is how Dynamic Gold looks like as a set 1-9
All numbers goes stronger the shorter the shaft is.
In this chart we used the same head wgt for all.
Real life head weight will be progressive higher so the difference on play ready clubs want be this large as we see here 



Play ready with the heads on, they no longer looks like above, but like THIS
who is BUTT CPM only



When we deal with woods, we have to use the same thinking like it was "a set" just like irons
if we ONLY go shorter (no reset of SW) it will look just like this charts above, who give the impression that "9 is 1 full flex stronger than 8" (10 CPM) since they was measured with the same tip wgt/head wgt, but when we use the right club head, those 10 CPM drops to right above 5 for S series, and right above 6 on X, but that DONT mean they are "half a flex stronger", its only "1 shaft stronger", and for irons that demands a combination of 0.5" shorter and ALL taken off the tip.

For woods we often BUTT cut shorter, and if we take 0.5" off, our CPM reader will say "3 CPM stronger", so it looks like "1/3 of a flex" but the only gain we got came from 3 SWP lower by going shorter, and "the natural SET slope" SHALL BE 4 to 6 CPM (just like irons), so when we reset SW value, our return value "looks unchanged", but we MISSED TARGET by 4-6 CPM since that was the needed progression to "be the same flex and belong to a SET"

Thats why we have to TIP TRIM woods when going shorter, just like irons, but if we reset SW we DONT go stronger, "we stay on the flex slope curve" who say flex is unchanged, because the nature is 4-6 CPM stronger from one club to the next to "belong to a set"

1.5 inch tip trim = 3 shafts stronger or hard stepped 3 times
For woods thats the tip trim difference between a 200 gram driver heads and a 230 grams 7W head, so if we use that tip trim for a driver, it will feel "stout" and have lower launch, but since tip sections on modern woods is only 3.0" we CANT make R flex to become S, or S to become X, and even if we could, the PROFILE would be changed so much they will never feel like its stronger brother.

This is how it works, so you either had bad sources of misunderstood what they tried to explain

Edited January 2, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[Rbsiedsc]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

You either have bad sources of information, or misunderstood what your are reading

Think of a set of IRON shafts.
Heads goes 7 grams up to keep SW value the same since clubs is 0.5" shorter progressive
Shaft TIP goes 0.5" shorter to handle those 7 grams - butt length is equal for all

When we "soft step" or "hard step" we go "1 shaft softer or stronger", meaning we go 0.5 longer or shorter on the TIP section  but we KEEP play length the same (and SW value the same)

When we look at the SET of shafts, they do MEASURE stronger as they go shorter, but thats how that shall be, but we still say they are "the same flex"

Here is how Dynamic Gold looks like as a set 1-9
All numbers goes stronger the shorter the shaft is.
In this chart we used the same head wgt for all.
Real life head weight will be progressive higher so the difference on play ready clubs want be this large as we see here 



Play ready with the heads on, they no longer looks like above, but like THIS
who is BUTT CPM only



When we deal with woods, we have to use the same thinking like it was "a set" just like irons
if we ONLY go shorter (no reset of SW) it will look just like this charts above, who give the impression that "9 is 1 full flex stronger than 8" (10 CPM) since they was measured with the same tip wgt/head wgt, but when we use the right club head, those 10 CPM drops to right above 5 for S series, and right above 6 on X, but that DONT mean they are "half a flex stronger", its only "1 shaft stronger", and for irons that demands a combination of 0.5" shorter and ALL taken off the tip.

For woods we often BUTT cut shorter, and if we take 0.5" off, our CPM reader will say "3 CPM stronger", so it looks like "1/3 of a flex" but the only gain we got came from 3 SWP lower by going shorter, and "the natural SET slope" SHALL BE 4 to 6 CPM (just like irons), so when we reset SW value, our return value "looks unchanged", but we MISSED TARGET by 4-6 CPM since that was the needed progression to "be the same flex and belong to a SET"

Thats why we have to TIP TRIM woods when going shorter, just like irons, but if we reset SW we DONT go stronger, "we stay on the flex slope curve" who say flex is unchanged, because the nature is 4-6 CPM stronger from one club to the next to "belong to a set"

1.5 inch tip trim = 3 shafts stronger or hard stepped 3 times
For woods thats the tip trim difference between a 200 gram driver heads and a 230 grams 7W head, so if we use that tip trim for a driver, it will feel "stout" and have lower launch, but since tip sections on modern woods is only 3.0" we CANT make R flex to become S, or S to become X, and even if we could, the PROFILE would be changed so much they will never feel like its stronger brother.

This is how it works, so you either had bad sources of misunderstood what they tried to explain

So when we butt trim to length, do we still need to tip trim for a driver if SW is not retained?

[Howard_Jones]

4 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

So when we butt trim to length, do we still need to tip trim for a driver if SW is not retained?

"need" is a question of starting point and target, we should always test before we make decisions, and the testing needed is explained here
 

 

[Rbsiedsc]

15 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

"need" is a question of starting point and target, we should always test before we make decisions, and the testing needed is explained here
 

 

44.5” and tee height of 1 1/2”.  Just need shaft tweaks for height/launch unless loft is a better way? Rdx blue 70g 6.0 was 150 ft at times. Some green do much better at 108 -112 ss

 

45.5”

44.5”

Edited January 2, 2022 by Rbsiedsc

[JMJ5150]

If you're talented you could hit a 43.5 driver over 300 yards all day every day..

[Rich Douglas]

I have a Titleist at 45.5" and a TM Mini (the new one) at 43.5". The difference between the two is stark. I have to choke down an inch on the Titleist just to have some control over it, while the TM is a fairway finder first class. The Titleist is about 15 yds longer (carry), but it just isn't worth it. I'm going to cut down the shaft (while trying to maintain the swing weight) and see what happens. 

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

I have a Titleist at 45.5" and a TM Mini (the new one) at 43.5". The difference between the two is stark. I have to choke down an inch on the Titleist just to have some control over it, while the TM is a fairway finder first class. The Titleist is about 15 yds longer (carry), but it just isn't worth it. I'm going to cut down the shaft (while trying to maintain the swing weight) and see what happens. 

Forget Swing weight, go by feel of head weight and what works. The SW scale cant help you with that, it never could.