Hit a 43.75" driver (LST 425) today-wow!

[RoyalMustang]

Today, I had the opportunity to check out (30-day return policy) a 43.75" Ping LST with a Tensei AV 65 White TX shaft.  I expected accuracy to be up and my ball speed to be off. boy, was I wrong! 

 

I compared it against my ST200 w/Atmos 6X Black, playing at 44.75", both on the range and on the course.   I have my "normal" distances on the Mizuno when struck well: typically carry 265-280 with ideal ball flight.  

 

I didn't have more accuracy with the LST; I still had a couple of snap hooks, but I was able to dial in a bit more of a "finish left for a controlled fade" swing later on.  The swing weight on that club is around D2.  I need more swings to really determine how accuracy is going to work out.  

 

I did have better distance; I don't think it was hitting the club better, as I tend to get very good strikes on the Mizuno when I swing well.  I just had a bit more carry on the LST. Without a launch monitor it is impossible to say, but it felt like with the smaller club, I was able to control my sync a bit better and generate more clubhead speed.  The loading, setting, and generating pressure from the feet all seemed to work a bit better.  

 

On the course, in similar conditions, I was a good 12-15 yards past where I normally hit my Mizuno when I get all of it.  Again, I don't think it is the head (as I had a 425 LST and sold it); it has to be the length of the club, or perhaps the AV white TX, which I have never played before.  I have hit a ton of drivers over the past few weeks, and nothing even came close to knocking off the Mizuno, but this one just might. 

 

So, FYI, I wouldn't automatically discount a shorter club as being shorter on the course.  Perhaps you will find that it gets you more in sync with your swing and refines your tempo a bit.  For me, it is all about being in the fairway, but that requires a swing that is synced up well and in balance.  Perhaps the shorter club does the trick for me.  

 

Also, the AV 65TX does not feel stout in any way.  It may be the shorter shaft again allowing me to load it properly

[NoTalentLefty]

I like life experiences like this. It was the same for me going to 44.25 and 44.5 inch drivers . Both were far better numbers than a 45.5 and 45.75 inch drivers. 

[Feelingofgreatness]

1 hour ago, NoTalentLefty said:

I like life experiences like this. It was the same for me going to 44.25 and 44.5 inch drivers . Both were far better numbers than a 45.5 and 45.75 inch drivers. 

Same experience with me... Now I play a 44.5" and I'm longer and more accurate. 

I've wanted to try 43.5" but no where to demo that because you need about 10-15 grams more in the head. 

[PEI_Golfer]

Take off the weight at the back of the 410 head and see what gram it is.  The weights are relatively cheap to pick up to experiment with later.  But the G410 LST (same as the 400 before it) are very good heads.

[pgatw]

I play a 425 at 43.5 with Ping tour 65. Never added any weight. Very straight and just as long as it was at 45.25.

[Skhacker]

44” max on any driver for me for years now. Welcome to the club. Bombs away!

[grochol17]

2 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

I didn't have more accuracy with the LST; I still had a couple of snap hooks...

 

I don't think a snap hook is a good example of whether or not the shorter shaft is helping you make better contact.  At least for me, a snap hook is from when I get out of position and there's pretty much no shaft length that is going to save me from that.

 

If you want to see if the shorter shaft is helping out, using some foot powder spray on the face to keep track of impact location will show you if you are making more consistent contact.

 

 

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, grochol17 said:

 

I don't think a snap hook is a good example of whether or not the shorter shaft is helping you make better contact.  At least for me, a snap hook is from when I get out of position and there's pretty much no shaft length that is going to save me from that.

 

If you want to see if the shorter shaft is helping out, using some foot powder spray on the face to keep track of impact location will show you if you are making more consistent contact.

 

 

 

Yeah, for me the snap hook is a symptom of overswinging and therefore not being in sync, which happens more often on a club I am having trouble controlling.  But I did use sunscreen today, and the strikes on the 43.75" were slightly better the 44.75".  I had more fairway swings and better tempo overall: it got me out of the mentality of trying to hit it a mile each time.  Plus, the shorter club keeps me feeling like I am staying centered over the ball, as I have a tendency to drift back on the takeaway and then try to correct.  

 

As this is a used club, the weight of the head must be a lot heavier than stock, either by manufacturing or by added weight.  Otherwise, I would be looking at something like C4.  

 

It is interesting though; I am 5 foot 9 and a pretty athletic guy at 170lbs with 10% body fat.  I do wonder, if in fact the best length for me ends up being shorter than 44", why the general public isn't offered this length as stock and the "stock" 45.25" isn't the "extra long" version. 

 

I was only able to test this as I ordered a pre-built, trade in driver from one of the used golf club distributors. The reason I wanted to try it is that I had a lot of success hitting the TM Mini 300, also 43.75".  However, the other poster is right: it is extremely tough to find these to test, and nobody wants to take a flyer on a $500 club that might not work out.  

 

Seems like a club maker would realize this at some point-they would sell more clubs by tending to actual needs! 

[grochol17]

1 hour ago, RoyalMustang said:

It is interesting though; I am 5 foot 9 and a pretty athletic guy at 170lbs with 10% body fat.  I do wonder, if in fact the best length for me ends up being shorter than 44", why the general public isn't offered this length as stock and the "stock" 45.25" isn't the "extra long" version.

 

I think the length creep was because of people chasing distance on a launch monitor in a golf shop.  With the longer shaft it is possible to swing faster and since the average golfer pays attention to the one that they caught on the screws (and not the 10 slices that would end up in someone's living room) they get fooled into thinking that a 45.75" driver is better for them because ball go far.

 

I'm 6' and have recently moved to a 44.5" driver.  It isn't obvious that I center it any more than a 45" driver, but I feel more comfortable over the ball and, like you, I'm hoping that will help me swing more in sync.  I've got a 44" driver on order just to see how that works out on the course (whenever the weather gets better). 

 

One of the people on here that has done a lot of fitting might have some insight, but I'm curious what length driver actually makes sense as the stock length... like you said, something like 44" or 44.5" seems more reasonable as the starting point since it is easier to go up or down from there, rather than starting at 45.5" and trying to cut off an inch or more.

 

 

[bryanwmilburn]

6'3 here and play my drivers at 44". 100% diminishing returns after that length and plenty long with today's tech!

[sg91]

I play at 44" and make centred contact far more often than I did playing at 45.5. Sure you lose a couple of mph head speed but the better ball speed makes up for it.

 

I know why drivers have gone that long but I'm not sure it's lead to an overall improvement in how most people play.

[Highlander 24]

Question if I do shorten the shaft length 1 inch should I tip a half inch and butt trim a half inch or take the full inch off the butt?

[Phabs]

1 hour ago, Highlander 24 said:

Question if I do shorten the shaft length 1 inch should I tip a half inch and butt trim a half inch or take the full inch off the butt?

If you like where your launch is trim the butt for the whole inch.  If you want to lower your launch and stiffen the shaft up some tip trim. 

[toddba11]

Great post and timing, I am 6’6”, cut one of my shafts down to 44.5 from 45” last week, only one round in so far , but really liked it, 915 D2 head….

Edited December 28, 2021 by toddba11

[Mookieb10]

I noticed This topic comes up on here about once a year. It’s funny cause it’s really moving against tides of lengthening driver shafts. Perhaps the responses of people on this thread is biased towards those who’ve had success with the shorter length, but there’s clearly something to this notion, especially with amateurs. 45.75” is clearly too darn long. 44.5” seems to be a nice sweet spot. 

[Georgia Hacker]

once you shorten the driver and want a heavier head, you can get some head weight by dropping grip weight. try the golf pride tour 25. gets you 25 grams. standard grip is 48 to 51 grams. it has worked well for me. way more control of the head allowing for many more center-face hits! 

[sheezymaneezy]

I have a 43" shaft and hit it much more accurately and haven't noticed any loss in distance. 

[mallrat]

A little over a year ago I went to a 44” driver shaft on accident. Loved it. 
 

A month ago I went down to Bandon and decided stop it the 45. Whatever in the bag for the 1st round. 2 fairways hit and no distance gains at all, actually lost yardage because of off center hits. Next morning woke up and put steady Eddie back in. 10 fairways on Pacific in the morning and 11 on Bandon in the afternoon. Not switching up again. 
 

for those that want to try a shorter shaft just buy a stock shaft off eBay or something off Callaway Preowned and cut it down. 

[NRJyzr]

16 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

It is interesting though; I am 5 foot 9 and a pretty athletic guy at 170lbs with 10% body fat.  I do wonder, if in fact the best length for me ends up being shorter than 44", why the general public isn't offered this length as stock and the "stock" 45.25" isn't the "extra long" version. 

 

15 hours ago, grochol17 said:

I think the length creep was because of people chasing distance on a launch monitor in a golf shop.  With the longer shaft it is possible to swing faster and since the average golfer pays attention to the one that they caught on the screws (and not the 10 slices that would end up in someone's living room) they get fooled into thinking that a 45.75" driver is better for them because ball go far.

 

It's entirely because distance sells, especially in the USA.  Hit it 300 yds, how far does this 7 iron go, etc.  It's all the same.

 

The OEMs don't want the general public to be educated on these sorts of topics.  That lack of knowledge helps their sales.

 

Personally, big fan of shorter drivers.  Anything over 44.25", maybe 44.5", and the ball goes everywhere for me, not in a good way.  That said, my best length is under 44", possibly as low as 43".  My swingspeed peaks around 43" to 43¼", direction is much better.  

 

My index rose 2+ shots in 2021 largely due to my stupidly trying drivers at 44.5" and 45" for 4-6 weeks.  More punch outs, penalty strokes, general ugliness.  Back to shorter sticks and down came the scores.

 

[RoyalMustang]

3 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

 

It's entirely because distance sells, especially in the USA.  Hit it 300 yds, how far does this 7 iron go, etc.  It's all the same.

 

The OEMs don't want the general public to be educated on these sorts of topics.  That lack of knowledge helps their sales.

 

Personally, big fan of shorter drivers.  Anything over 44.25", maybe 44.5", and the ball goes everywhere for me, not in a good way.  That said, my best length is under 44", possibly as low as 43".  My swingspeed peaks around 43" to 43¼", direction is much better.  

 

My index rose 2+ shots in 2021 largely due to my stupidly trying drivers at 44.5" and 45" for 4-6 weeks.  More punch outs, penalty strokes, general ugliness.  Back to shorter sticks and down came the scores.

 

 

Ha!  Such a cynical view, and likely right on the mark.  

 

Struggle with a 45"+ driver, blame the driver, buy another one, repeat.  

 

Oddly enough, as others have said, I don't see distance gains with a longer shaft unless it is the one swing where everything comes together, which is basically is as likely as Bartolo Colon hitting his first home run (which did happen, eventually).  

 

The only driver I have swung well with a 45.25" shaft was a TS3 with a Diamana BF TX 60 shaft. But something about that shaft encouraged easy swings, and I wasn't hitting it that far.  Maybe 260 carry at the most.  

[NRJyzr]

26 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Ha!  Such a cynical view, and likely right on the mark.  

 

Struggle with a 45"+ driver, blame the driver, buy another one, repeat.  

 

Oddly enough, as others have said, I don't see distance gains with a longer shaft unless it is the one swing where everything comes together, which is basically is as likely as Bartolo Colon hitting his first home run (which did happen, eventually).  

 

The only driver I have swung well with a 45.25" shaft was a TS3 with a Diamana BF TX 60 shaft. But something about that shaft encouraged easy swings, and I wasn't hitting it that far.  Maybe 260 carry at the most.  

 

A reference to the legendary Bartolo Colon home run....  it's starting out to be a glorious day.  LOL

 

edited to add:

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by NRJyzr

[PhlashPhace]

23 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

Today, I had the opportunity to check out (30-day return policy) a 43.75" Ping LST with a Tensei AV 65 White TX shaft.  I expected accuracy to be up and my ball speed to be off. boy, was I wrong! 

 

I compared it against my ST200 w/Atmos 6X Black, playing at 44.75", both on the range and on the course.   I have my "normal" distances on the Mizuno when struck well: typically carry 265-280 with ideal ball flight.  

 

I didn't have more accuracy with the LST; I still had a couple of snap hooks, but I was able to dial in a bit more of a "finish left for a controlled fade" swing later on.  The swing weight on that club is around D2.  I need more swings to really determine how accuracy is going to work out.  

 

I did have better distance; I don't think it was hitting the club better, as I tend to get very good strikes on the Mizuno when I swing well.  I just had a bit more carry on the LST. Without a launch monitor it is impossible to say, but it felt like with the smaller club, I was able to control my sync a bit better and generate more clubhead speed.  The loading, setting, and generating pressure from the feet all seemed to work a bit better.  

 

On the course, in similar conditions, I was a good 12-15 yards past where I normally hit my Mizuno when I get all of it.  Again, I don't think it is the head (as I had a 425 LST and sold it); it has to be the length of the club, or perhaps the AV white TX, which I have never played before.  I have hit a ton of drivers over the past few weeks, and nothing even came close to knocking off the Mizuno, but this one just might. 

 

So, FYI, I wouldn't automatically discount a shorter club as being shorter on the course.  Perhaps you will find that it gets you more in sync with your swing and refines your tempo a bit.  For me, it is all about being in the fairway, but that requires a swing that is synced up well and in balance.  Perhaps the shorter club does the trick for me.  

 

Also, the AV 65TX does not feel stout in any way.  It may be the shorter shaft again allowing me to load it properly

It's amazing how far a driver goes when you hit the center of the face isn't it?

[GoTime]

For a titleist shaft, how much length does a TSI drive head add?

[simpy19]

Years ago I messed with the Rogue shaft from Cally Alpha fairway in an XR Pro head hot melted to 208g (from a member).  I immediately felt like I was on to something...so added an extender to get to 44 or 43.75....and probably never hit the ball longer.  I always had this sense of swinging freer.  Those were fun times.  Just added an extra weight screw to my SIM to mess around again....

[Feelingofgreatness]

7 minutes ago, PhlashPhace said:

It's amazing how far a driver goes when you hit the center of the face isn't it?

I think some golfers actually swing faster and more confident with a shorter length. 

I was on the sim with my buddy yesterday and he was swinging his 42.5" 5w at 140mph and his 46.25" driver at 136mph.

You could just see the confidence go way up with the shorter shaft. 

[ChadL]

I switched to 44" a little over a year ago.  The only time I went longer was when I experimented with an Autoflex at 46". I will say that shaft is a freak and when I made good contact the ball was gone!  However I am much more consistent with a shorter shaft.

[RoyalMustang]

34 minutes ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

I think some golfers actually swing faster and more confident with a shorter length. 

I was on the sim with my buddy yesterday and he was swinging his 42.5" 5w at 140mph and his 46.25" driver at 136mph.

You could just see the confidence go way up with the shorter shaft. 

 

When I did a monitor session last year, the fitter noted that my ball speed was 157 with my 4 wood and 162 with my driver.  He said I wasn't getting my arms involved as much; the 4W just looked more fluid. He noted that anyone with a 157 4-wood speed should be able to do more than 162 with a driver, but it wasn't happening at the time.  My carry is up 20 yards since then (technique mostly) but I also find fluidity with my driver on occasion.  

[BallerNate]

13 hours ago, toddba11 said:

Great post and timing, I am 6’6”, cut one of my shafts down to 44.5 from 45” last week, only one round in so far , but really liked it, 915 D2 head….

I’m 6’7 and always wondered about this topic as well. The Driver shafts I’ve been using this year have been mostly 45.75” stock length, which feels long even for me.

 

No idea how guys under 6’2-6’3 are supposed to use Driver shafts that length…doesn’t make sense.

[Feelingofgreatness]

4 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

I’m 6’7 and always wondered about this topic as well. The Driver shafts I’ve been using this year have been mostly 45.75” stock length, which feels long even for me.

 

No idea how guys under 6’2-6’3 are supposed to use Driver shafts that length…doesn’t make sense.

Logic tells me, the longer the shaft, the flatter the plane of the swing and the further the ball is from you... thus making center contact more difficult. The closer the ball is to your body, the easier the ball should be to hit with the center of the club, within reason.  I know with irons there seems to be a sweet spot.

[Royal690]

I'm 5'7" and am still using my Sim at stock length.  I feel like I have to stand super far from the ball, swing flatter and struggle to make contact with the center of the face. 

 

I'm considering taking some length off the butt end but how much weight would I need to add to the head to make up say an inch to keep the swing weight the same?