Hit a 43.75" driver (LST 425) today-wow!

[NRJyzr]

15 minutes ago, Royal690 said:

I'm 5'7" and am still using my Sim at stock length.  I feel like I have to stand super far from the ball, swing flatter and struggle to make contact with the center of the face. 

 

I'm considering taking some length off the butt end but how much weight would I need to add to the head to make up say an inch to keep the swing weight the same?

 

The exact number (nerd level precision, that is) is dependent on the length of the club, but I think you'd be ok with 10 or 11 grams.

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by NRJyzr

[BallerNate]

43 minutes ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

Logic tells me, the longer the shaft, the flatter the plane of the swing and the further the ball is from you... thus making center contact more difficult. The closer the ball is to your body, the easier the ball should be to hit with the center of the club, within reason.  I know with irons there seems to be a sweet spot.

Makes sense completely. The Driver I had the most success with in the last couple of years was the Callaway Rogue with a 45.5” shaft, but have been struggling badly since selling it and trying to get my Driver swing back on track.

 

Have a SIM2 now with a 45.75” shaft, but I have it in the upright setting and it could potentially benefit from a slightly shorter shaft. Time will tell, but will keep that option in mind.

[Nels55]

47 minutes ago, Royal690 said:

I'm 5'7" and am still using my Sim at stock length.  I feel like I have to stand super far from the ball, swing flatter and struggle to make contact with the center of the face. 

 

I'm considering taking some length off the butt end but how much weight would I need to add to the head to make up say an inch to keep the swing weight the same?

First I would advise choking it up one inch and hitting balls and maybe playing.  It is quite possible that you will not need to add any weight to the head if you do trim the shaft.  Lighter equals faster and faster means more distance.  There are so many variables that the best way to find out is to experiment.  If you do cut the shaft down you can experiment with adding weight to the head to see if it helps or hurts.

[Nels55]

LOL I have experimented with driver length and weight and so on a great deal.  41 inches at the shortest I think up to 50+ back when that was legal.  Right now I seem to be swinging most smoothly with best contact at 45.75 inch length.  I was not expecting this to be the case as I thought that a shorter driver would be better but it is what it is...  For some reason I tend to swing a bit too hard with a shorter length driver.  I will continue to experiment though.  If it ain't broke fix it 'til it is!

[subrew]

I play an older Callaway Big Bertha APW, that has a sliding 6 gram weight and a heal located 6 gram weight.  I always fought a bit of a slice, so I chose this head so I could experiment with adding weight to the heal location, and the ability to more easily adjust swing weight while I shortened the shaft.

 

I'm currently at a 18g lead weight with a 8g weight bolt in the fixed heal location.  Plus the stock 6g sliding weight set in the back.  So 32g of total weight, instead of the original 12g.  I also ended up with a ladies flex shaft at 43.5".  I'm an average swing speed male, hitting driver around 95mph first few shots, but can crank up to 105mph if I have a big wide target out there.  

 

The softer shaft really seems to match up to my smooth tempo, and let's me get the head turned over a bit right before impact.  Previously (longer and stiffer shafts) I had to set the 9* head at 11* to get any meaningful launch out of it.  After the shorter ladies flex shaft experiment, my launch went way up.  So I was able to turn it down to 8* and actually have slightly longer driver stats according to my Arccos data.  

 

The extra weight in the heal has all but eliminated the right side of the fairway for me.  I can still send out a nice fade on dogleg rights, but my natural shot shape now is a baby draw. 

 

cliff notes:  A 43.5" short ladies flex shaft with some heal weight has actually gained yards off the tee for me, as I'm hitting it much straighter.  Carrying 230-240 down the center is much better than 220-230 fades or slices.  I'm actually going to build up a lighter weight shaft, hoping I can remove a bit of the added weights to build up a poor man's TSi1 style driver.  Light head, light shaft, light grip.   

 

 

[Hammer22]

2 hours ago, Royal690 said:

I'm 5'7" and am still using my Sim at stock length.  I feel like I have to stand super far from the ball, swing flatter and struggle to make contact with the center of the face. 

 

I'm considering taking some length off the butt end but how much weight would I need to add to the head to make up say an inch to keep the swing weight the same?

Search  the web. There is a ton of information out there on swing weight. It's not hard to figure out the correlation between length and SW or any other combination that effects it. 

[Royal690]

 

 

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

First I would advise choking it up one inch and hitting balls and maybe playing.  It is quite possible that you will not need to add any weight to the head if you do trim the shaft.  Lighter equals faster and faster means more distance.  There are so many variables that the best way to find out is to experiment.  If you do cut the shaft down you can experiment with adding weight to the head to see if it helps or hurts.

 

Yea I'm going to experiment a bit indoors (Northeast) with choking down different amounts to see if it makes a difference or not before I cut it.  So if it's a stock 45.75" shaft and I cut it down to 44.75" what will it measure in the driver?

[mmacdon3]

This topic has caused me to go down a bit of a rabbit hole with shaft length and swing weight. I've always wanted to experiment with a shorter driver shaft.

Right now I have a Ping G425 Max with the Alta CB 55 shaft. I swapped out the Arccos grip for a Tour Velvet midsize so I think that puts me at 45.5" playing length.

I just bought the same shaft on Ebay but cut down to a 44" playing length, with plans to test the two side by side extensively this winter.

 

The stock Ping swing weight is listed as D3. However when I manually calculated mine using an online calculator (based on club weight and balance point) it's saying I'm at C9. Can it change that much just because I swapped the grip or am I most likely calculating it wrong? Is the counter balanced shaft throwing things off?

 

By my calculations with the 44" driver I'll need to add close to 18 grams to the head. I know lead tape is an option, but I see after market club weights are pretty cheap. Is it OK/possible to screw in 2 weights to the G425 to add up to the proper weight?

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by mmacdon3

[hoffa72002]

At 6'1", I've been playing 44.25 for awhile now, and I have gained distance and accuracy.  Sure, you need to add some head weight to get the feel dialed in.  But at this point a 45.75 stock length TM driver feels so awkward that I can't see ever going back.  I have played around with my bag for about 10 years know, and I actually play my irons 1/2" over standard and my driver, fairway woods, and hybrids at very degrees of shorter length based on testing on the range.  Kind of a similar concept to 3/8" gapping a set of irons, longer lengths often help in the wedges and shorter lengths help in the woods.  As always, every player is different and an argument could be made that each club should be fit individually to the player.  This is where doing you own club work is a plus, particularly for the time and financial aspects.

[halfsumo]

I have recently had the opposite experience. For years, I have been adamant of playing 44.5" to 45.25" drivers and have spouted on and on in numerous threads about how dumb it is that OEM's sell stock length drivers at 45.75". Well, I actually have one now at 45.75" and it is the longest and most consistent driver I have ever had. May be just that I lucked into a good fitting head/shaft combo, but I picked up distance AND consistency. Now, when I try shorter drivers, they feel like they have no leverage to me. Now, for me shorter drivers either feel too light if you don't add the swingweight back up and they feel like they have no heft/power to them or if weight is added to bring the swingweight back up, they feel too heavy and do funky things to my swing. 

[JungleJimbo]

5 hours ago, mmacdon3 said:

By my calculations with the 44" driver I'll need to add close to 18 grams to the head. I know lead tape is an option, but I see after market club weights are pretty cheap. Is it OK/possible to screw in 2 weights to the G425 to add up to the proper weight?

@mmacdon3 for the g425... IMHO...  I suspect it’ll be a heavier replacement weight that’s do-able  (rather than 2 weights).

 

for the g410... yes  I’ve seen folks combine 2 weights in the back slots. 
 

happy to be proven wrong!

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by JungleJimbo

[grochol17]

On 12/27/2021 at 11:01 PM, Georgia Hacker said:

once you shorten the driver and want a heavier head, you can get some head weight by dropping grip weight. try the golf pride tour 25. gets you 25 grams. standard grip is 48 to 51 grams. it has worked well for me. way more control of the head allowing for many more center-face hits! 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are suggesting, but just going to a lighter grip is only fooling the swingweight scale to make the swingweight look normal.  Since you hold the grip  (and not 14" down the shaft like the balance point for the scale) you're not really feeling the way the weight of the grip changes the balance of the club.  Plus, if you cut it down then put on a lightweight grip, you're significantly lowering the total weight of the club, giving it a completely different feel.

[Howard_Jones]

On 12/27/2021 at 11:32 PM, grochol17 said:

 

I think the length creep was because of people chasing distance on a launch monitor in a golf shop.  With the longer shaft it is possible to swing faster and since the average golfer pays attention to the one that they caught on the screws (and not the 10 slices that would end up in someone's living room) they get fooled into thinking that a 45.75" driver is better for them because ball go far.

 

I'm 6' and have recently moved to a 44.5" driver.  It isn't obvious that I center it any more than a 45" driver, but I feel more comfortable over the ball and, like you, I'm hoping that will help me swing more in sync.  I've got a 44" driver on order just to see how that works out on the course (whenever the weather gets better). 

 

One of the people on here that has done a lot of fitting might have some insight, but I'm curious what length driver actually makes sense as the stock length... like you said, something like 44" or 44.5" seems more reasonable as the starting point since it is easier to go up or down from there, rather than starting at 45.5" and trying to cut off an inch or more.

 

 

My suggestions for "Standard lengths" is those you find in my chart for shaft weight progression
If you play 0.5" PLUS in irons, add 0.5" to the driver
ELITE players (HDCP below 3.5) can add 0.5" (even with std irons)
Professionals (HDCP on the sunny side of 0) up to 1.25" longer

The longest driver ive ever made for a PGA player who played "standard" irons" was 45.00", but we are talking about a player with HDCP of plus 3.4 who often goes 11 under par (course record holder on 2 courses with 11 under par in 2 different PGA tournaments in Europe)


 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[Rexbaum]

Interesting I stumbled on those post.  I just did this yesterday -

 

I had been playing the older Titleist 913 D3 Driver w/ Diamana D+ 72 x5 stiff shaft.  Fantastic driver!  On a whim I purchased the new Titleist TSi2 9* Driver w/ HZRDUS Black RDX shaft (45.5").  

 

When I walked out of the store I fully intended to put my Diamana shaft on the new driver head.  I went to the range found (as predicted) the new driver head played very well with the Diamana shaft (45").

 

I recently read about Phil Mickelson's having a TM Original One driver in his bag with a 43.75" shaft, and he referred to it as his 2 wood.

 

I cut the HZRDUS RDX shaft down to 44" and re-gripped it.  I put it on the older Tytleist 913 D3 and headed to the range with both drivers.  

 

I was wondering how the old driver would play with the short shaft and how would I do transitioning between the 45" and 44"?  I was stunned!  The 44" older driver is 100% a Fairway Finder now and averaged about 250-260 yards, with ball flight just a touch lower.  Center face strikes are almost a sure thing with 1.5" off the shaft length.   The new TSi2 is typically 270, by comparison on distance.

 

I have an extra 3 wood shaft, I might experiment with cutting an inch off that shaft just to see if I can center strike the 3 wood better.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Rexbaum

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, Rexbaum said:

Interesting I stumbled on those post.  I just did this yesterday -

 

I had been playing the older Titleist 913 D3 Driver w/ Diamana D+ 72 x5 stiff shaft.  Fantastic driver!  On a whim I purchased the new Titleist TSi2 9* Driver w/ HZRDUS Black RDX shaft (45.5").  

 

When I walked out of the store I fully intended to put my Diamana shaft on the new driver head.  I went to the range found (as predicted) the new driver head played very well with the Diamana shaft (45").

 

I recently read about Phil Mickelson's having a TM Original One driver in his bag with a 43.75" shaft, and he referred to it as his 2 wood.

 

I cut the HZRDUS RDX shaft down to 44" and re-gripped it.  I put it on the older Tytleist 913 D3 and headed to the range with both drivers.  

 

I was wondering how the old driver would play with the short shaft and how would I do transitioning between the 45" and 44"?  I was stunned!  The 44" older driver is 100% a Fairway Finder now and averaged about 250-260 yards, with ball flight just a touch lower.  Center face strikes are almost a sure thing with 1.5" off the shaft length.   The new TSi2 is typically 270, by comparison on distance.

 

I have an extra 3 wood shaft, I might experiment with cutting an inch off that shaft just to see if I can center strike the 3 wood better.

DONT start by cutting, follow this DIY driver tune up and you want go wrong.
About 145.000 readers has gone trough it, and most is amazed how simple it is.
 

 

[pccasstpro]

I always find it funny the reaction of people when they find the center of a clubface consistently. It is only second to when they realize that they have been lied to by club manufacturers that "longer clubs" equal more distance.......... 

[joostin]

7 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

My suggestions for "Standard lengths" is those you find in my chart for shaft weight progression
If you play 0.5" PLUS in irons, add 0.5" to the driver
ELITE players (HDCP below 3.5) can add 0.5" (even with std irons)
Professionals (HDCP on the sunny side of 0) up to 1.25" longer

The longest driver ive ever made for a PGA player who played "standard" irons" was 45.00", but we are talking about a player with HDCP of plus 3.4 who often goes 11 under par (course record holder on 2 courses with 11 under par in 2 different PGA tournaments in Europe)


 

Nice reference, as always.

I assume these are cut shaft weights?

[Howard_Jones]

5 minutes ago, joostin said:

Nice reference, as always.

I assume these are cut shaft weights?

NOPE - its UNCUT just like we see them on each manufacturers web page, thats the only way to make it useful and easy to use to find a starting point for testing. (its NOT a "buying suggestion", its just like a static fitting, you get the ball park or a starting point for testing, thats it. Shaft balance points might move you more than plus minus 5 grams)

Woods is based on 46" long uncut shafts
Hybrids is based on 42" long uncut shaft (so it seems like a "fluid progression" but its NOT)
Irons is "range" for constant wgt shafts.

Here is the same chart modified to TT AMT users (plus minus 5 grams)

Edited December 29, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[blakesmittkamp]

ping lst driver heads are so dang heavy they typically swing weight D3 (my sweet spot) at around 44 inches.  

[Rbsiedsc]

25 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

NOPE - its UNCUT just like we see them on each manufacturers web page, thats the only way to make it useful and easy to use to find a starting point for testing. (its NOT a "buying suggestion", its just like a static fitting, you get the ball park or a starting point for testing, thats it. Shaft balance points might move you more than plus minus 5 grams)

Woods is based on 46" long uncut shafts
Hybrids is based on 42" long uncut shaft (so it seems like a "fluid progression" but its NOT)
Irons is "range" for constant wgt shafts.

Here is the same chart modified to TT AMT users (plus minus 5 grams)

So by this chart, someone who plays 120 g iron shaft should play a 60g driver shaft?

 

nvm just read it was a recommendation. Apologies 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Rbsiedsc

[Howard_Jones]

9 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

So by this chart, someone who plays 120 g iron shaft should play a 60g driver shaft?

 

nvm just read it was a recommendation. Apologies 

correct, its s suggestion for a starting point for testing so we can eliminate options far outside of that range. That means if you play 120 grams irons and those are a good fit, its NOT likely a driver shaft of 75 or 40 grams is something you should try, its more likely that you will find what works plus minus 5 grams (1 row) from your irons, sometimes up to 10 grams off that chart. The "issue" today is that there is shafts on the marked with both high and low balance point who makes them feel "different", and that chart was made using only True Temper, Project X, Rifle and Grafalloy products who all had a balance point close to the middle of the shaft.

So, its NOT any better than a "static fitting" and a short cut to a starting point for testing.

[Rbsiedsc]

1 minute ago, Howard_Jones said:

correct, its s suggestion for a starting point for testing so we can eliminate options far outside of that range. That means if you play 120 grams irons and those are a good fit, its NOT likely a driver shaft of 75 or 40 grams is something you should try, its more likely that you will find what works plus minus 5 grams (1 row) from your irons, sometimes up to 10 grams off that chart. The "issue" today is that there is shafts on the marked with both high and low balance point who makes them feel "different", and that chart was made using only True Temper, Project X, Rifle and Grafalloy products who all had a balance point close to the middle of the shaft.

So, its NOT any better than a "static fitting" and a short cut to a starting point for testing.

Makes sense. It is interesting. I game kbs 120 stiff but struggle with 60g driver shafts. Currently using a 75g rdx blue in driver. This has me thinking trying something closer to 70g and cut down. 

[blopar]

As Royal Mustang says, a lot is about "synch"--but I believe, more importantly, path, accuracy,  sweet spot impact and face control. Often this is better with a slightly shorter shaft.  Yes-I can hit my 45.25" PXG a few yards further than my 44.5 PING G 425, but if I want to hit more fairways and control my trajectory and shot shape , it's PING with the shorter shaft all the way.  Anyway, as a "Club Ho" I'll vary my bag setup depending on the course I'm playing, and you should too!  This just gives you an option the "uneducated" would ordinarily discourage.

[Howard_Jones]

53 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

Makes sense. It is interesting. I game kbs 120 stiff but struggle with 60g driver shafts. Currently using a 75g rdx blue in driver. This has me thinking trying something closer to 70g and cut down. 

Dont cut anything before you have tried this. Your 60 gram shaft might be just perfect as "fitting object", since we can ADD weight to that shaft and find whats working the best.
No special tools needed, but lead tape is very handy here.
 

 

[NoCalHack]

There have been a lot of objective tests showing that many people do better with shorter drivers.

 

I'm 6' tall and use a driver at 44.625.  I hit it way better than 45.5 or even 45.25.    Longer and straighter.

 

All manufacturers have crept up to 45.5 or 45.75 standards.  Even on tour, which wrxers pay attention to, the average is increasing.  It seems like 45.25 seems to be standard.

 

I always felt like I am not anywhere near as consistent as a tour pro so why should I look at the length they are using.  These guys hit the center of the face and every yard counts on the courses they are playing.  

 

And even still, tour drivers are shorter than stock retail.  All this recent angst about the 46" driver limit and how it hurts amateurs.  No, it really affects like 2 guys on tour.  I doubt there are any amateurs out there that are aurally better with a driver longer than 46".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rbsiedsc]

20 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Dont cut anything before you have tried this. Your 60 gram shaft might be just perfect as "fitting object", since we can ADD weight to that shaft and find whats working the best.
No special tools needed, but lead tape is very handy here.
 

 

Yup this is my plan next range session. I have my 75g rdx blue and a 60g Ventus blue (already at 45”). Battle royale for my bag. Although if I can get face contact great but struggle with control, back to the drawing board on flex but keep the ideal length.  

[Lobber]

On 12/27/2021 at 1:04 PM, RoyalMustang said:

 

Yeah, for me the snap hook is a symptom of overswinging and therefore not being in sync, which happens more often on a club I am having trouble controlling.  But I did use sunscreen today, and the strikes on the 43.75" were slightly better the 44.75".  I had more fairway swings and better tempo overall: it got me out of the mentality of trying to hit it a mile each time.  Plus, the shorter club keeps me feeling like I am staying centered over the ball, as I have a tendency to drift back on the takeaway and then try to correct.  

 

As this is a used club, the weight of the head must be a lot heavier than stock, either by manufacturing or by added weight.  Otherwise, I would be looking at something like C4.  

 

It is interesting though; I am 5 foot 9 and a pretty athletic guy at 170lbs with 10% body fat.  I do wonder, if in fact the best length for me ends up being shorter than 44", why the general public isn't offered this length as stock and the "stock" 45.25" isn't the "extra long" version. 

 

I was only able to test this as I ordered a pre-built, trade in driver from one of the used golf club distributors. The reason I wanted to try it is that I had a lot of success hitting the TM Mini 300, also 43.75".  However, the other poster is right: it is extremely tough to find these to test, and nobody wants to take a flyer on a $500 club that might not work out.  

 

Seems like a club maker would realize this at some point-they would sell more clubs by tending to actual needs! 

Lardass!😂

[Lobber]

Just now, Lobber said:

Lardass!😂

 

Just now, Lobber said:

Lardass!😂

Apologies!  Thought I was replying to the gent with 10% body fat!

[mosesgolf]

Didn't Tiger play his 975D around 43" back in year 2000?  Best he ever drove it. 

Im going to give this a go at 44". 

[Canyonaro]

On 12/28/2021 at 10:55 AM, ChadL said:

I switched to 44" a little over a year ago.  The only time I went longer was when I experimented with an Autoflex at 46". I will say that shaft is a freak and when I made good contact the ball was gone!  However I am much more consistent with a shorter shaft.

 

I've been gaming Autoflex at 47" since July & have put up two of my best rounds ever with it. I think a lot of the guys who think they're benefiting from shorter length are really benefiting from swingweight & shaft characteristic changes (esp less toe droop). I did extensive testing & tweaking to get the Autoflex setup right. I've never been longer or straighter. But maybe some guys are just afraid of longer clubs. I've always hit driver and fairway woods well. Long & mid irons, not so much.