Colorado WRX 2022

[Dancin]

Sad that Dismal has to keep the fairways more heavily watered for cart traffic. If they don't have a winter time manual sprinkler system for watering the greens in years of little snow you'd think they at least would put in a nursery plot somewhere they can water it in winter so they could fix dead spots in greens more easily in the spring.

 

I suspect Raindance will have similar issues with needing to keep their fescue fairways watered due to the cart traffic despite saying they want firm and fast conditions. Red Sky is another set of courses that would be amazing if their mostly east coast membership didn't demand to see lush green fairways when they fly in.

[Dancin]

12 hours ago, ztull said:

https://straightgross.com/2022/10/04/upgrading-a-national-membership/

Aren't you also a member at Omni Interlocken? It's a tough nut for the initiation, but instead of Dismal, Omni and now potentially Kissing Camels, maybe pay the big initiation at Colorado Golf Club and have that as your only club for less annual dues? Although CGC is probably on a wait list now too.

[ztull]

8 hours ago, Dancin said:

Aren't you also a member at Omni Interlocken? It's a tough nut for the initiation, but instead of Dismal, Omni and now potentially Kissing Camels, maybe pay the big initiation at Colorado Golf Club and have that as your only club for less annual dues? Although CGC is probably on a wait list now too.

I 100% have tried to fold it all into CGC, had an awful experience seeking a member sponsor on Thousand Greens. A guy added me as a fourth while he was hosting two clients, told the forecaddie not to worry about me on the first tee, then said five words to me the entire round, “take care of the caddie.”

 

I’d nut up and pay if I had a time machine, but in the heat of the moment I handled things differently. Member told me I wouldn’t be welcome back 😔

 

CGC and Dismal reciprocate, but it was a bad enough experience that I didn’t test the ban this season. It’s is very sad because I love CGC (obviously).

 

I wrote this blog before my wife “asked” if we could move into Central Park this weekend, it’s looking like we will go to one club, Cherry Creek, but I still wanted to publish. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by ztull

[TheKrushh]

5 hours ago, ztull said:

I 100% have tried to fold it all into CGC, had an awful experience seeking a member sponsor on Thousand Greens. A guy added me as a fourth while he was hosting two clients, told the forecaddie not to worry about me on the first tee, then said five words to me the entire round, “take care of the caddie.”

 

I’d nut up and pay if I had a time machine, but in the heat of the moment I handled things differently. Member told me I wouldn’t be welcome back 😔

 

CGC and Dismal reciprocate, but it was a bad enough experience that I didn’t test the ban this season. It’s is very sad because I love CGC (obviously).

 

I wrote this blog before my wife “asked” if we could move into Central Park this weekend, it’s looking like we will go to one club, Cherry Creek, but I still wanted to publish. 

 

That's sucky. Sounds like that was really intense. Some members can get weird with those types of situations. I know nothing about Thousand Greens but I wonder if the app/website trade concept attracts that type of attitude.

 

I've randomly had terrible forecaddies there every time I've played but I've always played with wonderful members. I've committed to the fact that I'm not joining any private club until I can join CGC and if that means I never get to do it then so be it.

[ztull]

7 minutes ago, TheKrushh said:

 

That's sucky. Sounds like that was really intense. Some members can get weird with those types of situations. I know nothing about Thousand Greens but I wonder if the app/website trade concept attracts that type of attitude.

 

I've randomly had terrible forecaddies there every time I've played but I've always played with wonderful members. I've committed to the fact that I'm not joining any private club until I can join CGC and if that means I never get to do it then so be it.

Convention dictates that you cover your host's caddie fees, and I came to the course with the cash to cover the whole foursome. The issue was more him being a terrible host. I'm DEEPLY entrenched in TG, experiences are hit or miss, that one was by far the worst. Adding a fourth to a business outing strictly to cover caddie fees is very much outside the spirit of the app. I was irked enough to email the founder of the app after the round, he confirmed this.

CGC is TOUGH right now but that club has everything. I hope you get the invite. 

[Dancin]

It also blows my mind that Dormie Network is able to get people to pay $10k a year for dues according to your blog. Yes you get at least two very good courses and other above average courses, but $10k a year for a national membership you almost definitely have to fly to where you are expected to stay on property at higher than hotel rates is really high. There are some much better courses than anything they have in network with national memberships and ability to stay at regular hotels in the $4-8k range (although most likely have waiting lists now).

 

I wonder if older members are grandfathered in at a lower annual rate and they're only making new members pay the $10k a year. I just can't believe they have enough people willing to pay $10k a year for what they offer.

[ztull]

Just now, Dancin said:

It also blows my mind that Dormie Network is able to get people to pay $10k a year for dues according to your blog. Yes you get at least two very good courses and other above average courses, but $10k a year for a national membership you almost definitely have to fly to where you are expected to stay on property at higher than hotel rates is really high. There are some much better courses than anything they have in network with national memberships and ability to stay at regular hotels in the $4-8k range (although most likely have waiting lists now).

 

I wonder if older members are grandfathered in at a lower annual rate and they're only making new members pay the $10k a year. I just can't believe they have enough people willing to pay $10k a year for what they offer.

I think (hope) the older members are grandfathered into a lesser dues structure. They upped it from 8k to 10k when they announced GreyBull, also told me they were going even higher when GreyBull opened. 

As of now the only, the only course where you have to stay on property to book a tee time is Dormie Club, but their membership guy told me GreyBull would be another property where staying onsite was mandatory.

Can tell us the better courses with national membership under 10k? I live for this stuff...

[Dancin]

33 minutes ago, ztull said:

I think (hope) the older members are grandfathered into a lesser dues structure. They upped it from 8k to 10k when they announced GreyBull, also told me they were going even higher when GreyBull opened. 

As of now the only, the only course where you have to stay on property to book a tee time is Dormie Club, but their membership guy told me GreyBull would be another property where staying onsite was mandatory.

Can tell us the better courses with national membership under 10k? I live for this stuff...

That makes sense. I knew it was $8k before and at $8k it's competitive. For $10k, Greybull better be a top 100 course. There are tons of private courses that don't even advertise that they have a national member program, but they do. One that surprised me was Moraine CC in Dayton, OH which was pretty reasonable for national although with the golf boom they may not be taking anymore national members at this time.

 

As for others most of these have waiting lists or are not even taking names for the list but they are all under $10k dues for national and I think better courses than what Dormie has currently: Ballyneal, Prairie Dunes, White Bear Yacht Club, CapRock Ranch. I know the first two are under $10k a year currently. The others were under $10k a year two years ago.

 

NCR Country Club (South) which is right next to Moraine is also an excellent course with a very cheap local membership and a pretty good second course too, but they are almost definitely on a long waiting list.

I really like San Diego CC which also has a national membership that used to be pretty reasonable but that was 3-4 years ago when I last checked.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Dancin

[ztull]

1 minute ago, Dancin said:

That makes sense. I knew it was $8k before and at $8k it's competitive. For $10k, Greybull better be a top 100 course. There are tons of private courses that don't even advertise that they have a national member program, but they do. One that surprised me was Moraine CC in Dayton, OH which was pretty reasonable for national although with the golf boom they may not be taking anymore national members at this time.

 

As for others most of these have waiting lists or are not even taking names for the list but they are all under $10k dues for national and I think better courses than what Dismal has currently: Ballyneal, Prairie Dunes, White Bear Yacht Club, CapRock Ranch. I know the first two are under $10k a year currently. The others were under $10k a year two years ago.

 

NCR Country Club (South) which is right next to Moraine is also an excellent course with a very cheap local membership and a pretty good second course too, but they are almost definitely on a long waiting list.

I really like San Diego CC which also has a national membership that used to be pretty reasonable but that was 3-4 years ago when I last checked.

You can get Dismal from the horse's mouth here, $25k initiation, $7,800 in yearly dues. The waitlist was "closed" at the beginning of the year, I have to wonder if they just couldn't host perspective members with dead greens. They will see some attrition this year, not enough to clear a waitlist in the  triple digits.

I've heard waitlists at Bally and PD are also closed, but 10k incredible value for both tracks. I looked at White Bear (11k) and CapRock (45k) those initiation figures are up to date. Love Gil Hanse, I don't think I had heard of CapRock until the start of this season, would have been awesome to nab that under 10k two years ago. Nebraska red hot as a golf destination right now.

[pseudoswede]

In the Dormie Network, I grew up near Victoria National--except the course wasn't built (heck, planned) by the time I left to go to college.

[Dancin]

1 minute ago, ztull said:

You can get Dismal from the horse's mouth here, $25k initiation, $7,800 in yearly dues. The waitlist was "closed" at the beginning of the year, I have to wonder if they just couldn't host perspective members with dead greens. They will see some attrition this year, not enough to clear a waitlist in the  triple digits.

I've heard waitlists at Bally and PD are also closed, but 10k incredible value for both tracks. I looked at White Bear (11k) and CapRock (45k) those initiation figures are up to date. Love Gil Hanse, I don't think I had heard of CapRock until the start of this season, would have been awesome to nab that under 10k two years ago. Nebraska red hot as a golf destination right now.

I edited it and meant to say Dormie, not Dismal, but Dismal River is another one with better courses than Dormie (assuming they get their greens issues solved) and under $10k annual dues. I was only talking about annual dues too. Not the initiation. All the ones I mentioned (maybe not PD) have initiations over $10k. You aren't getting great courses for an initiation under $10k in the US.

[CDM]

4 hours ago, TheKrushh said:

 

That's sucky. Sounds like that was really intense. Some members can get weird with those types of situations. I know nothing about Thousand Greens but I wonder if the app/website trade concept attracts that type of attitude.

 

I've randomly had terrible forecaddies there every time I've played but I've always played with wonderful members. I've committed to the fact that I'm not joining any private club until I can join CGC and if that means I never get to do it then so be it.

 

Thousand Greens for sure was not the issue.

 

They have a structure and which courses you can inquire on, etc and they have some fairly defined rules / guidelines the owner has set firm.  I have not meet the owner of TG but I know some on here have and speak highly of him.

 

Outsider looking in, I have a feeling @ztull was added just to pay the fee sadly.   

 

Honestly I am more questioning the members invite. I know if I took 2 clients out, personally I would not bring someone I did not know. You never know who you invited, you could get stuck someone like me  🤣

 

I have been on TG a lot lately over the last 30 days.  We planned a golf trip to Melbourne AUS / Tasmaina for two weeks and have been talking with members at the top courses and so far everyone has been awesome.   All liked minded.  They just love golf. 

 

EDIT:   @pseudoswede  AUS golf trip we tried soo hard to time it with F1 race in MEL. Just schedules will not work out. Currently we leave the day of the race. Thought about staying the one extra day but the flight cost goes nuts that Sunday as you can imagine.   

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by CDM

[CDM]

16 minutes ago, Dancin said:

That makes sense. I knew it was $8k before and at $8k it's competitive. For $10k, Greybull better be a top 100 course. There are tons of private courses that don't even advertise that they have a national member program, but they do. One that surprised me was Moraine CC in Dayton, OH which was pretty reasonable for national although with the golf boom they may not be taking anymore national members at this time.

 

As for others most of these have waiting lists or are not even taking names for the list but they are all under $10k dues for national and I think better courses than what Dismal has currently: Ballyneal, Prairie Dunes, White Bear Yacht Club, CapRock Ranch. I know the first two are under $10k a year currently. The others were under $10k a year two years ago.

 

NCR Country Club (South) which is right next to Moraine is also an excellent course with a very cheap local membership and a pretty good second course too, but they are almost definitely on a long waiting list.

I really like San Diego CC which also has a national membership that used to be pretty reasonable but that was 3-4 years ago when I last checked.

 

..... I hear PD is under 5K a year in dues for National 😊  

Edited October 5, 2022 by CDM

[ztull]

Just now, Dancin said:

I edited it and meant to say Dormie, not Dismal, but Dismal River is another one with better courses than Dormie (assuming they get their greens issues solved) and under $10k annual dues. I was only talking about annual dues too. Not the initiation. All the ones I mentioned (maybe not PD) have initiations over $10k. You aren't getting great courses for an initiation under $10k in the US.

Yeah for sure, understood. Was actually surprised by CapRock's yearly dues, something like 4,800.

Would imagine conditions are peaking at Dismal are peaking right now (and just in time lol) they have a second superintendent, who I think they'll retain, and tarps for the greens. This ownership group truly cares for the course, a big plus.

[ztull]

14 minutes ago, CDM said:

 

Thousand Greens for sure was not the issue.

 

They have a structure and which courses you can inquire on, etc and they have some fairly defined rules / guidelines the owner has set firm.  I have not meet the owner of TG but I know some on here have they and speak highly of him.

 

Outsider looking in, I have a feeling @ztull was added just to pay the fee sadly.   

 

Honestly I am more questioning the members invite. I know if I took 2 clients out, personally I would not bring someone I did not know. You never know who you invited, you could get stuck someone like me  🤣

 

I have been on TG a lot lately over the last 30 days.  We planned a golf trip to Melbourne AUS / Tasmaina for two weeks and have been talking with members at the top courses and so far everyone has been awesome.   All liked minded.  They just love golf. 

 

 

Yeah I don't mean to trash TG, I've used the app to coordinate some incredible experiences. Specifically Oak Hill, where it seemed like every user at the club was bending over backwards to host me. There's kind and active user base at Bally and Olde Stone. A TON of other people from CGC offered to host me, I just said yes to the wrong guy (he had the earliest tee time) in this instance.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think that some of the hospitality at the highest TG tiers had to do with there being less users who being able to request your course, not a lot of tokens changed hands unless you had offers open to lower tiers. I wonder how that is going to change now that they've gone to a net value system. 

[ztull]

On 10/4/2022 at 4:27 PM, Dancin said:

Sad that Dismal has to keep the fairways more heavily watered for cart traffic. If they don't have a winter time manual sprinkler system for watering the greens in years of little snow you'd think they at least would put in a nursery plot somewhere they can water it in winter so they could fix dead spots in greens more easily in the spring.

 

I suspect Raindance will have similar issues with needing to keep their fescue fairways watered due to the cart traffic despite saying they want firm and fast conditions. Red Sky is another set of courses that would be amazing if their mostly east coast membership didn't demand to see lush green fairways when they fly in.

Yeah they lost every green on the course, unfortunately. I hope they have something like a sprinkler system for winter watering, I know that high winds blowing the water everywhere is a big issue.

If I could rid the world of all golf carts I would. I'm probably only guy who still walks the Red Course (you'd be crazy to walk the White) it's possible and preferable with a cart staged at 1 tee and another behind 18 green. 

[pseudoswede]

33 minutes ago, CDM said:

EDIT:   @pseudoswede  AUS golf trip we tried soo hard to time it with F1 race in MEL. Just schedules will not work out. Currently we leave the day of the race. Thought about staying the one extra day but the flight cost goes nuts that Sunday as you can imagine.   

 

C'mon man. It's not that bad. Take an extra half-day off work. You can do it.

 

[CDM]

Just now, ztull said:

Yeah I don't mean to trash TG, I've used the app to coordinate some incredible experiences. Specifically Oak Hill, where it seemed like every user at the club was bending over backwards to host me. There's kind and active user base at Bally and Olde Stone. A TON of other people from CGC offered to host me, I just said yes to the wrong guy (he had the earliest tee time) in this instance.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think that some of the hospitality at the highest TG tiers had to do with there being less users who being able to request your course, not a lot of tokens changed hands unless you had offers open to lower tiers. I wonder how that is going to change now that they've gone to a net value system. 

 

I wondered on the Value system personally too but not think it makes great sense, plus it is pretty sweet APP to connect with members all over the world at courses that was free.   

 

Your point on highest TG tiers hosting I think is true but needed for TG to be successful.  The 2nd-4th tiers not having access to the top tier (without open offers as noted) does limit it in some aspects. Though from what I understand it was done because a lot those members in the top tier "noted" they get way to many request and would be dropping out. So to retain those members a system had to be put in place to keep it viable to have members on the app that belong to top 100 courses. 

[pseudoswede]

9 minutes ago, ztull said:

If I could rid the world of all golf carts I would. I'm probably only guy who still walks the Red Course (you'd be crazy to walk the White) it's possible and preferable with a cart staged at 1 tee and another behind 18 green. 

 

This is the cart barn at my in-law's golf club in Sweden. The only people who ride carts are the truly invalid and dude bros.

 

[CDM]

Just now, pseudoswede said:

 

C'mon man. It's not that bad. Take an extra half-day off work. You can do it.

 

 

HAHAHAHA.... OOOOO I have looked hard at it and it is not off the table..!    That clip above, that price refundable for Monday is what I was talking about.  WTH...!!  My RT ticket was $2500 refundable when I booked so at $3,669.00 to just come back on Monday (one way) because it is right after the race, they are gouging everyone....!  

 

Honestly if the economy "blows up" as everyone is projecting we still plan on going regardless and maybe we get lucky and it drops way down and we stay....!!  

[Dancin]

49 minutes ago, ztull said:

Yeah for sure, understood. Was actually surprised by CapRock's yearly dues, something like 4,800.

That's why $10k for Dormie is nuts. There is so much competition for national members in the $4-7k dues range. If you go far above that, you risk losing a good percentage of your national members. Courses where they can't be open all year are even more sensitive to dues increases.

[ztull]

1 minute ago, Dancin said:

That's why $10k for Dormie is nuts. There is so much competition for national members in the $4-7k dues range. If you go far above that, you risk losing a good percentage of your national members. Courses where they can't be open all year are even more sensitive to dues increases.

 

A national membership in San Diego would make my wife so happy lol

[ztull]

25 minutes ago, CDM said:

 

I wondered on the Value system personally too but not think it makes great sense, plus it is pretty sweet APP to connect with members all over the world at courses that was free.   

 

Your point on highest TG tiers hosting I think is true but needed for TG to be successful.  The 2nd-4th tiers not having access to the top tier (without open offers as noted) does limit it in some aspects. Though from what I understand it was done because a lot those members in the top tier "noted" they get way to many request and would be dropping out. So to retain those members a system had to be put in place to keep it viable to have members on the app that belong to top 100 courses. 

I've had that conversation with a few guys at top 100 courses who were dropping off. The big problem at higher quality courses is you can just have your pro call. 

[CDM]

5 minutes ago, ztull said:

 

A national membership in San Diego would make my wife so happy lol

 

Don't let her talk to Dancin, he tried to get me to do that  LOL

[CDM]

4 minutes ago, ztull said:

I've had that conversation with a few guys at top 100 courses who were dropping off. The big problem at higher quality courses is you can just have your pro call. 

 

True but playing with a member is always better at least to me it is as they know the course, history, etc.  Secondary the member rate vs unaccompanied rate can be a decent amount of $$. 

[Dancin]

17 minutes ago, ztull said:

 

A national membership in San Diego would make my wife so happy lol

As I said, I really like San Diego CC. I had more fun playing there than Torrey. The bunkering reminds me of the Australian sand belt courses. It is located in a working class part of town which is part of the reason it is (or at least was when I checked years ago) cheaper. I also know they have had an architect draw up renovation plans for many of the holes to make it even more interesting, so there might be the risk of an assessment.

[ztull]

1 hour ago, CDM said:

 

True but playing with a member is always better at least to me it is as they know the course, history, etc.  Secondary the member rate vs unaccompanied rate can be a decent amount of $$. 

Yeah I've met some great people on TG. Also hear you on the accompanied rate, something liek $125 V.S. $375 at CGC. 

[ztull]

1 hour ago, Dancin said:

As I said, I really like San Diego CC. I had more fun playing there than Torrey. The bunkering reminds me of the Australian sand belt courses. It is located in a working class part of town which is part of the reason it is (or at least was when I checked years ago) cheaper. I also know they have had an architect draw up renovation plans for many of the holes to make it even more interesting, so there might be the risk of an assessment.

Enquiring.

[Dancin]

Good old GCA thread with pictures on San Diego CC https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50684.0.html

[pseudoswede]

Just found out that we have a company holiday on Monday. Trying to find a tee time, and mornings are all booked up all over the place. Argh.

 

I guess I'll just clean out the garage.