The Future of Golf

[Itsjustagame]

The closing of golf courses isn't solely about golf. The US has a houseing shortage, and for several years (maybe more) land has been more valuable for building homes than golf. People who own golf courses see an opportunity to cash out for big money.

[Soloman1]

53 minutes ago, akronswitness said:

Is there a reading comprehension problem here?

 

None at all.

 

However, the Dunning-Kruger Effect alarm bells are ringing.

[Abh159]

1 hour ago, akronswitness said:

 

Thats the problem I am referring to in my previous 12 posts!..............there are no new golfers. Is there a reading comprehension problem here?

 

You do realize that you don't have to start at age 12 to be considered a "new golfer" right? I think you're assuming that just because there may not be a bunch of young people taking up the game for the first time that means that no one is taking up the game for the first time.

 

I've been playing for 25+ years, and I know wayyyyy more people that didn't start playing golf until they were well into their 30s than I do people who started as kids or teens.

[vallygolf]

I hope golf is shrinking and corrects after the pandemic.  Golf has no moral obligation for everyone to play, it is a sport. Expensive, difficult, and not for everyone, although anyone should be welcome to try (tattoo commentary is comical that is even mentioned).  I am pretty selfish with my leisure time because it is so hard to come by.  I hate that every course is booked solid every day.  So I hope akronswitness is right, although it has been good comedy reading the rational.

[Soloman1]

Most kids quit golf when they get to high school.

[akronswitness]

13 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Most kids quit golf when they get to high school.

 

Why do you think that is? (and I would say its closer to out of high school)

[vallygolf]

6 minutes ago, akronswitness said:

 

Why do you think that is? (and I would say its closer to out of high school)

Always different, but money, and access are the primary drivers.  Right now golf is booming so hard in AZ that there is very little access to tee times or range time.  As pointed out before, this is a moot point for your argument, because golf has ALWAYS had a decrease in play at that age.  It isnt a current phenomenon driving a mysterious decline.

Edited February 9, 2022 by vallygolf

[Hawkeye77]

3 hours ago, akronswitness said:

 

Thats the problem I am referring to in my previous 12 posts!..............there are no new golfers. Is there a reading comprehension problem here?

And again, like other claims you've made that's a lie.  The only reading issue is you not reading anything beyond 2018 and trying to rig an argument.

 

2020 - largest increase in beginning golfers - fact.  2020 - largest gain in youth golfers since Tiger 1997 - fact.

 

2021 - positive trends continue.

 

Your bogus claims about total numbers going down every year have already been dealt with.

 

Maybe just realize you've completely missed the mark instead of the continual sarcasm to now mask the fact you really haven't gotten the numbers right. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[akronswitness]

Just now, vallygolf said:

Always different, but money, and access are the primary drivers.  Right now golf is booming so hard in AZ that there is very little access to tee times or range time.

 

Its 100% money and to a lesser extent--time. The general kid at 18 years old out of High School is flat broke working a $12/hr job to live on their own for the first time. Spending 1k or 2k on a new setup no matter how much they want it is not a option--neither is spending $65-85 a round. The cost of golf kills whatever motivation they have to go play.

 

Im just of the belief people who are golf enthusiasts who want to go play should have easier access to do so. Which is why in my initial post I suggested the majority of courses should adopt a 'college ID' type of evening golf once per week for the 18-23 year olds who cant afford to spend $65-85 on a round to go play for $20.

 

However, the wall Im running into in this thread is that I never knew there were so many people in the golf community whose stance is 'You cant afford it? F*** it then you dont play too bad"

[akronswitness]

24 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

And again, like other claims you've made that's a lie.  The only reading issue is you not reading anything beyond 2018 and trying to rig an argment.

 

2020 - largest increase in beginning golfers - fact.  2020 - largest gain in youth golfers since Tiger 1997 - fact.

 

2021 - positive trends continue.

 

Your bogus claims about total numbers going down every year have already been dealt with.

 

Maybe just realize you've completely missed the mark instead of the continual sarcasm to now mask the fact you really haven't gotten the numbers right. 

 

The 'increase' you keep referring to in 2018 was 300k people. There was a 7 Million person decrease from 2006-2018 (25% of the entire golf population). That 300k increase in 2018 you keep harping on was a drop in a bucket compared to how many people quit golf in the previous decade+.

 

Again, its like 100 people walking out the door of your company then getting excited that 4 of them turned around and stayed.

 

This isnt hard math man, citing a 300k person increase in 2018 after 7,000,000 people quit from 2006-2018 is not the 'win' or 'spike' you think it is.

 

And again again--golf boomed in 2020 because of a global pandemic. In 2021 there has already been a 4% decline in player count at courses (that is 1M golfers down in just 1 year from 2020 peak). I dont know where you keep thinking more people joined the sport in 2021, because it didnt happen.

Edited February 9, 2022 by akronswitness

[Itsjustagame]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/26/callaway-dicks-sporting-goods-score-with-growth-of-golf.html

[vallygolf]

11 minutes ago, akronswitness said:

 

Its 100% money and to a lesser extent--time. The general kid at 18 years old out of High School is flat broke working a $12/hr job to live on their own for the first time. Spending 1k or 2k on a new setup no matter how much they want it is not a option--neither is spending $65-85 a round. The cost of golf kills whatever motivation they have to go play.

 

Im just of the belief people who are golf enthusiasts who want to go play should have easier access to do so. Which is why in my initial post I suggested the majority of courses should adopt a 'college ID' type of evening golf once per week for the 18-23 year olds who cant afford to spend $65-85 on a round to go play for $20.

 

However, the wall Im running into in this thread is that I never knew there were so many people in the golf community whose stance is 'You cant afford it? F*** it then you dont play too bad"

I think many are trying to figure out what you are so passionate about, and why you keep coming up with different angles in this thread.  You are using factually incorrect statistics to make golf somehow become altruistic to the end of "golf needs to be doing everything in its power to be more inclusive and make the game more accessible/fun".  

 

1. Golf is already fun, and in such a boom it is inaccessable for a variety of reasons

2. Golf is a sport and has no power to be more inclusive.  Its very nature (difficult and expensive to maintain) exclude many of all varieties right off the bat.

3. Either create a thread with some ideas how courses or organizations can be more inclusive, or create a thread on how to turn around the (in your own mind) decline of golf.  Your means to an end makes no sense.

[Hawkeye77]

31 minutes ago, akronswitness said:

I dont know where you keep thinking more people joined the sport in 2021, because it didn't happen.  Answer:  BS

 

 

Give it up.

 

On course participation went up in each of four years '18-'21 you claimed it has gone down every year.  Now it's "well I made all that up but the pandemic explains it" - different issue. Fact is there are more golfers, tons of them.

 

You gloss over the record number of beginners in '20.  Well in '21 - 3.2 million of them.  

 

As for total, from the NGF:

 

"With the Omicron variant leading us into year three of Covid-19, the virus seemingly continues to benefit golf even while hampering parts of the economy and frustrating millions ready to be ‘done’ with it.

NGF’s participation research shows overall golf participation increased by 600,000 to 37.5MM in 2021 (+2%) with growth split evenly between on- and off-course."

 

So yes, it did happen. And rounds played were up in 2021 over 2020 as well.

 

[akronswitness]

33 minutes ago, vallygolf said:

I think many are trying to figure out what you are so passionate about, and why you keep coming up with different angles in this thread.  You are using factually incorrect statistics to make golf somehow become altruistic to the end of "golf needs to be doing everything in its power to be more inclusive and make the game more accessible/fun".  

 

1. Golf is already fun, and in such a boom it is inaccessable for a variety of reasons

2. Golf is a sport and has no power to be more inclusive.  Its very nature (difficult and expensive to maintain) exclude many of all varieties right off the bat.

3. Either create a thread with some ideas how courses or organizations can be more inclusive, or create a thread on how to turn around the (in your own mind) decline of golf.  Your means to an end makes no sense.

 

Im really not that passionate about it, go read the first 1-2 posts I made in this thread about some new idea for courses to incorporate. The only reason Im responding is because instead of thinking of ideas or speaking in any rational discourse--10 different people from the 'get off my lawn' community jumped on my posts rather aggressively. I then cited multiple sources with factual data of golf declining and courses closing and it was met with "mehhhh all of those numbers are wrong, your wrong'

 

Dont not answer my original question in the thread, jump down my throat for something that has no relation to the original question, refute any factual statistic and then get pissy pants when I throw it back in your face. Its a simple as that. 

 

We literally have a dozen people in this thread claiming its a conspiracy that 7 M people didnt leave golf for over a decades time and are having a tough time wrapping their head around the fact that 2020 was a outlier because of a one-off circumstance that has nothing to do with the normalcy of golf.

 

To summerize this thread, here:

 

Me: 7M people left golf and 2,500+ courses closed in the last 15 years. Thats a problem. What can courses do to innovate and keep people interested?

Them: No they didnt, golf is fine.

Me: Yes they did, its data you can look up on the internet

Them: Golf is doing great, everything is fine. There is more golfers then ever. Those numbers are #fakenews

Me: No, its not. The pandemic numbers are unsustainable 

Them: Everything is fine. I dont want new people anyways. 

Me: How about beginners leagues and local schools being involved at courses?

Them: If they cant afford it, tough ****. Golf is fine. We dont want broke people anyways at my local course.

 

Should have known I was dealing with the golf community on this one and all of the deserved stereotypes that come with that.

Edited February 9, 2022 by akronswitness

[RMG1984]

No question there is data to support golf participant numbers are up and a significant are new to the game. Covid/natural/etc. who cares why, grow the game!

[klebs01]

42 minutes ago, akronswitness said:

 

Its 100% money and to a lesser extent--time. The general kid at 18 years old out of High School is flat broke working a $12/hr job to live on their own for the first time. Spending 1k or 2k on a new setup no matter how much they want it is not a option--neither is spending $65-85 a round. The cost of golf kills whatever motivation they have to go play.

 

Im just of the belief people who are golf enthusiasts who want to go play should have easier access to do so. Which is why in my initial post I suggested the majority of courses should adopt a 'college ID' type of evening golf once per week for the 18-23 year olds who cant afford to spend $65-85 on a round to go play for $20.

 

However, the wall Im running into in this thread is that I never knew there were so many people in the golf community whose stance is 'You cant afford it? F*** it then you dont play too bad"

it’s because you are creating strawman arguments. There are plenty of places to play that aren’t $65. The munis around me start at $9 for 18 holes. This is not a small town but not in the coasts either. There is nothing wrong with picking up a used set of clubs at a garage sale or eBay like most people back in the day. A decent starter set can be had for $50-$100. Only hard core enthusiasts should be spending $1000+ on a set. The game should not be sacrificed to cater to the lowest common denominator. If a person doesn’t want to dedicate the time or money to play, or pay for a nice course that’s fine. 

[Hawkeye77]

Further the the pool of "very interested" which is where the NGF reckons it draws a lot of the new golfers is up 20% the past 5 years, through 2021, and now stands at 18 million.

 

Facts and indicators are positive.  

[Bad9]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Give it up.

 

On course participation went up in each of four years '18-'21 you claimed it has gone down every year.  Now it's "well I made all that up but the pandemic explains it" - different issue. Fact is there are more golfers, tons of them.

 

You gloss over the record number of beginners in '20.  Well in '21 - 3.2 million of them.  

 

As for total, from the NGF:

 

"With the Omicron variant leading us into year three of Covid-19, the virus seemingly continues to benefit golf even while hampering parts of the economy and frustrating millions ready to be ‘done’ with it.

NGF’s participation research shows overall golf participation increased by 600,000 to 37.5MM in 2021 (+2%) with growth split evenly between on- and off-course."

 

So yes, it did happen. And rounds played were up in 2021 over 2020 as well.

 

 

Keep in mind I live in the far side of the middle of no where. in 2019 our course ended the year with 96 members, had bled money for 3-4 years and wouldn't have survived 2020 on the same path. Then comes 2020 and the shut down of most sports-soccer, softball, etc. Big spike in membership to about 260 mostly male 18-30 who part of the attraction was they could drink lots of beer while playing golf. Just to note that they almost never caused any trouble. In 2021 we went down to about 220 but that is a number good enough to keep us going. Even though we didn't maintain all of the first COVID summer members we kept about half and most of them are younger which is great in a club at which the median age was probably 45yrs.

[vallygolf]

9 minutes ago, akronswitness said:

 

Im really not that passionate about it, go read the first 1-2 posts I made in this thread about some new idea for courses to incorporate. The only reason Im responding is because instead of thinking of ideas or speaking in any rational discourse--10 different people from the 'get off my lawn' community jumped on my posts rather aggressively. I then cited multiple sources with factual data of golf declining and courses closing and it was met with "mehhhh all of those numbers are wrong, your wrong'

 

Dont not answer my original question in the thread, jump down my throat for something that has no relation to the original question, refute any factual statistic and then get pissy pants when I throw it back in your face. Its a simple as that. 

 

We literally have a dozen people in this thread claiming its a conspiracy that 7 M people didnt leave golf for over a decades time and are having a tough time wrapping their head around the fact that 2020 was a outlier because of a one-off circumstance that has nothing to do with the normalcy of golf.

 

To summerize this thread, here:

 

Me: 7M people left golf and 2,500+ courses closed in the last 15 years. Thats a problem. What can courses do to innovate and keep people interested?

Them: No they didnt, golf is fine.

Me: Yes they did, its data you can look up on the internet

Them: Golf is doing great, everything is fine. There is more golfers then ever. 

Me: No, its not. The pandemic numbers are unsustainable 

Them: Everything is fine. I dont want new people anyways. 

Me: How about beginners leagues and local schools being involved at courses?

Them: If they cant afford it, tough ****. Golf is fine.

At least acknowledge that you are basing your entire argument on a period of time from a peak to a valley due to overbuilding.  You have to see that you are basing your argument on the same flaw you point out in others comments.  You cant sing the entire demise of golf needing radicle change by looking at the post Tiger boom snapshot, just as the covid boom doesnt mean there wont be a correction.  The mere fact that golf CAN boom shows the game is in at least a relatively healthy place ebbs and flows notwithstanding.

[akronswitness]

15 minutes ago, vallygolf said:

At least acknowledge that you are basing your entire argument on a period of time from a peak to a valley due to overbuilding.  You have to see that you are basing your argument on the same flaw you point out in others comments.  You cant sing the entire demise of golf needing radicle change by looking at the post Tiger boom snapshot, just as the covid boom doesnt mean there wont be a correction.  The mere fact that golf CAN boom shows the game is in at least a relatively healthy place ebbs and flows notwithstanding.

 

it doesnt matter what time period Im referencing because we are dealing with long enough trends, not year to year bounces trying to predict things--we already know. A 15 year sample size is long enough to deem concernable about the statistics. Like, what do you think its going to go back to when it corrects? You think its going to back to 1980 statistics in the year 2025? 

 

We live in a entire different economy with different generations with different interests and hobbies now. You cant just assume "dont worry it will go back to being gravy in 10 more years just like it did back in 1990 before HD television" 

 

Thats not how this works, its fluid. You need to be constantly improving and innovating to drive new business. You cant just keep throwing out the same product every year expecting an entire new generation to take ahold of it like their grandparents did. Your dealing with the technology generation now, not the Im going to go outside and golf because there is nothing else to entertain me but being outside generation. golf is fighting for attention from the 10-40 year old crowd with factors that the 50-80 year old generation in the 1970-1990s didnt have.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by akronswitness

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, akronswitness said:

 

1) No never golfed in my life I just love coming on niche message boards and chatting with a bunch of random guys about the sport.

2) Your second statement is literally my point in whats is clearly wrong with the sport.

 

A sport that recognizes itself as exclusive, traditional and generally not accepting to others...is a problem. This isnt 1962 anymore, the rules that applied 60+ years ago dont have to apply to today. Golf has lost 7M concurrent players since Tigers boom ended in 2006 and had dealt with over 2,000 course closures across the US in that same time, so the whopping 300k it gained from 2016-2018 without the help of a pandemic is a drop in a bucket. Thats like 100 customers walking out your door and getting excited that 5 of them came back in.

 

To use your analogy, this is like a Audi losing money every year over a 15 year time period and having to close 15-20% of their dealerships due to lack of demand in their vehicles only to receive a bailout by the government (covid) before their entire company goes under. After the government bailout Audi still wont change their business practice, philosophies, vehicle lineup as it relates to different audiences, ect.

 

How stupid would that be.....

 

3) If you want to go further into golfs outrageous pricing. It cost golf manufacturers on average $49 to make a set of irons, they sell that iron set for $1,200 retail. That is a 2,350% markup. It costs Porsche $33,000 to manufacture a lower end model vehicle and they sell them starting at around $55,000. That is a 66% markup. It costs Burton $150 to make a snowboard, they sell them starting out at around $400. That is a 166% markup.

 

Where does golf get away thinking they can mark their crap up over 2,000% and the majority of old head golfers will still buy it with a smile on their face and not ask any questions.

 

 

 

Simple answer - America is a capitalistic Supply & Demand country.  Any business can put what ever price they want a product.  Whether new or used, if a product is miss priced, it won't sell, priced right or within their budget, people buy.  Audi was bailed out because of jobs, nothing more. 

[Abh159]

1 hour ago, akronswitness said:

 

Its 100% money and to a lesser extent--time. The general kid at 18 years old out of High School is flat broke working a $12/hr job to live on their own for the first time. Spending 1k or 2k on a new setup no matter how much they want it is not a option--neither is spending $65-85 a round. The cost of golf kills whatever motivation they have to go play.

 

Im just of the belief people who are golf enthusiasts who want to go play should have easier access to do so. Which is why in my initial post I suggested the majority of courses should adopt a 'college ID' type of evening golf once per week for the 18-23 year olds who cant afford to spend $65-85 on a round to go play for $20.

 

However, the wall Im running into in this thread is that I never knew there were so many people in the golf community whose stance is 'You cant afford it? F*** it then you dont play too bad"

 

Just out of curiosity... How would you sell this idea to a course? "Hey Mr./Mrs. Golf Couse Manager! You're cool with making less money so a bunch of teens and young adults can come out here and have fun on your golf course right? It's for the good of the game!!"

 

They would be trading away full priced rounds of golf being played by anyone (but mostly regular golfers), and in return they would be getting a bunch of college kids (most likely drinking and tearing up the course) for a fraction of the price. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Abh159

[Pepperturbo]

15 hours ago, bobfoster said:

Spot on correct. (I've got a minor in econometrics - and am continually awed at market statistics being poorly, or selectively used to prove a conclusion someone has already reached.) Pulling a handful of carefully chosen, often only partially defined stats, and declaring that as a result one's conclusion is a "fact" that can't be argued with is a well known rhetorical tactic that often works, but doesn't at all mean it is the truth. 

 

Anyone that really wants to understand a market (like golf) can certainly start with a hypothesis, and go out and find stats that verify the hypothesis - but an honest investigator (and any good scientist or businessperson in any realm) is one who looks equally hard for evidence that disproves their thesis. 

 

For instance, take the line "Only 35% of active golfers are under the age of 40. So 10-40 years old make up 35% of golfers and 41-79 year olds make up 65% of golfers."

 

Sounds dramatic right? Golf is in trouble! But unpack that. One group is 10 - 40, a total of 30 years. The other 41 - 79. 38 years. That simply is not comparing apples to apples. Out of a total of 69 years (10 - 79), he doesn't split younger/older in half at 34.5 ... the first group contains 55% of the population, the second group 45%. Of course one will have a larger number than the other. Almost a deliberate distortion to attempt to make a point.

 

Further, the remaining difference in age distribution is easily explained. Every sport has its average age. Golf has always skewed older, for several reasons. It is relatively more expensive - a 25 year old with an entry level salary, starting a family, and college debt will be less able to afford it than a 45 - 50 year old mid career guy who's salary is peaking and who's kids have moved out.

 

And ... you can play it until an advanced age. Few 55 years olds are going to be still playing basketball. 60 year olds don't play soccer. The number of people still playing tennis at 65 is much less than those playing at 25. The back, knees, and stamina decline with age. But I was still enjoying golf with my Dad when he was 80. I know quite a few people that didn't take up golf until middle age - many moving to it from other sports after they became physically harder to play. The average age of US golfers is around 54, and that number has stayed pretty consistent over time.

 

As for opposing stats? Around 24 MM people played at least a round of golf in 2011. Around 24 MM played at least a round in 2021. The number of people playing in their 30s is almost identical to the number of people playing in their 60s.

 

So the foundational numbers the OP used to assert that golf has to change to face a coming "crisis" were selectively picked, even distorted, and simply don't tell the truth of golf. 

 

I'm probably sounding a bit harsher towards the OP than is my norm, but my econ professors would be absolutely livid if they read this thread. As Mark Twain said, "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics".

Excellent.

[akronswitness]

15 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Simple answer - America is a capitalistic Supply & Demand country.  Any business can put what ever price they want a product.  Whether new or used, if a product is miss priced, it won't sell, priced right or within their budget, people buy.  Audi was bailed out because of jobs, nothing more. 

 

While I agree with that, there are some other factors. I think a lot of the reason people buy buy buy is because people are gullible and get sucked into marketing in the golf industry more than any other industry I have ever seen. If TM comes out with a new driver--spends 10M in advertising saying its "Carbon, longer, straighter, better" people feel like they need to buy because of fear of not performing the best. In reality 90% of new $500 drivers dont do anything for your game. People are just addicted to thinking equipment will make a hard game easier so they will spend whatever the pricetag is.

 

My point with the equipment is this: Why doesnt every manufacturer release a entry level type of set. Scale back the technology and materials and make a introduction game improvement set for beginners that retails at.....lets say......$350.

 

Ski/Snowboard companies do it. Car companies have 'trim levels' that drastically change the price of the vehicle. Why cant TM/Callway/Ping/Cleveland come out with a 'I want to get into golf for the first time and dont want to spend 2k on new equipment' set. You would then hook customers into that brand and keep them buying from you when they want to upgrade into your $900-1,200 sets.

 

Because they dont do this, other companies like Vice and Sub70 have been established where you can get new equipment tailored to you and 1/2 the cost but they are largely unknown to the new golfer.

Edited February 9, 2022 by akronswitness

[david.c.w]

@akronswitness, I have read through twice and would like to step back and give perspective.

 

Everything you are saying is from a super extreme POV. 

• Yes, the latest Stealth Driver is $600, but that does mean everyone has to buy it.  Older drivers can be found for $50 instead.
• Yes, Pebble Beach costs $595, but the 18 hole muni down the street from me is $24.
• Yes, there are elite clubs that don't allow cellphones, but don't say that their rules and regulations apply everywhere. 
• Yes, courses in Ohio are closing down, but that does not apply everywhere else.

 

Pro shops are selling Bluetooth speakers, people are playing in jeans and t-shirts, 9 hole rounds are more common.  The sport is evolving to become more relaxed.

 

What people here are saying is that they simply don't agree with you, and you are flabbergasted.   You came asking for a dialog, and that dialog is pretty strong that the future of golf is similar to what it is today.  Elite clubs and rocky munis.  Stealth drivers and hand-me-down Burner Bubbles.  ProV1's and Pinnacles.  Will the Covid Boom ebb a little?  Probably.  Does that mean it will go back to whatever trend you are quoting?  Probably not.    

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by david.c.w

[akronswitness]

19 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Just out of curiosity... How would you sell this idea to a course? "Hey Mr./Mrs. Golf Couse Manager! You're cool with making less money so a bunch of teens and young adults can come out here and have fun on your golf course right? It's for the good of the game!!"

 

They would be trading away full priced rounds of golf being played by anyone (but mostly regular golfers), and in return they would be getting a bunch of college kids )most likely drinking and tearing up the course) for a fraction of the price. 

 

Easy. Quantity over quality and guaranteed repeat business.

 

I know people hate to believe it--but not every single golf course in packed to the brim every night of the week. Pick the slowest night of the week for your course, make that night Student night. Its not just about 1 time either. That student will come every single Tuesday night and tell their friends about it as well. Then, they will start coming to your course on weekends for full price. Repeat business.

 

Get 50+ golfers on your course for $20 a pop every Tuesday night over 10 golfers for full price. Plus, if you did the food/drink specials--you would make money hand over fist from students. Far more than Steve and Susie who are out on the course for their general health.

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by akronswitness

[david.c.w]

8 minutes ago, akronswitness said:

 

 

 

My point with the equipment is this: Why doesnt every manufacturer release a entry level type of set. Scale back the technology and materials and make a introduction game improvement set for beginners that retails at.....lets say......$350.

 

 

Do you think everyone here started out with new irons, new drivers, a Scotty Cameron, and the latest Bushnell rangefinder?  This argument is preposterous.  I bet 99% of the golfers here started with something used.   Maybe it was your dad's set cut down, maybe a goodwill find, maybe your friends older brothers, maybe a US kids golf set for $179.

 

Stop with this position that golf is too expensive.  From an entry level perspective it literally on par or cheaper than other organized sports.

[akronswitness]

14 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

Do you think everyone here started out with new irons, new drivers, a Scotty Cameron, and the latest Bushnell rangefinder?  This argument is preposterous.  I bet 99% of the golfers here started with something used.   Maybe it was your dad's set cut down, maybe a goodwill find, maybe your friends older brothers, maybe a US kids golf set for $179.

 

Stop with this position that golf is too expensive.  From an entry level perspective it literally on par or cheaper than other organized sports.

 

Okay. What if somebody doesnt want hand me down garbage outdated equipment. Just because you did it doesnt mean everyone else has to. You only did that because you had no other option.

 

Do you know how much money Ping or TM would make if they released a beginners BRAND NEW set for $350 (which is still a 300% markup for the manufacturer). Not only would they own an entire segment of the golf community and capture that entire market, they would get future repeat business out the *** because those entry golfers would become brand loyal.

 

If you were the CEO of Ping, would you want somebody who wants to get into golf digging through a barrel of used clubs from your competitors or would you want to supply them with a option to buy new clubs at a similar cost from you?

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by akronswitness

[vallygolf]

12 minutes ago, akronswitness said:

 

Easy. Quantity over quality and guaranteed repeat business.

 

I know people hate to believe it--but not every single golf course in packed to the brim every night of the week. Pick the slowest night of the week for your course, make that night Student night. Its not just about 1 time either. That student will come every single Tuesday night and tell their friends about it as well. Then, they will start coming to your course on weekends for full price. Repeat business.

 

Get 50+ golfers on your course for $20 a pop every Tuesday night over 10 golfers for full price. Plus, if you did the food/drink specials--you would make money hand over fist from students. Far more than Steve and Susie who are out on the course for their general health.

 

Let me know the minute you find anyone who thinks this will work to any degree.  I have a friend with some Denars he wants to sell.

[Bad9]

5 minutes ago, akronswitness said:

 

Do you know how much money Ping or TM would make if they released a beginners BRAND NEW set for $350 (which is still a 300% markup for the manufacturer). Not only would they own an entire segment of the golf community and capture that entire market, they would get future repeat business out the *** because those entry golfers would become brand loyal.

 

By this reasoning Wilson(not Staff) should own a big piece of the golf club market.