Does PCC require action by clubs, or is it automatic?

[ChaosTheory]

Is PCC automatically calculated (even if it turns out to be 0) for all clubs, all days?  Or does each club have to elect to calculate it for a given day?

 

I understand what it is, I just don’t know if it is automatic and universal, or elective by club and day, within the USA.

[ThinkingPlus]

Automatic

[Newby]

And worldwide. Not just USA.

[ChaosTheory]

Great.  Thank you both.

[denkea]

But probably not universal.  

 

I had a 3 stroke adjustment on a day that I would call testing but not out of the ordinary.

 

Then I played in 38º weather with 20 mph winds and thought a PCC adjustment would be factored in.  But nope.  No adjustment whatsoever.  Go Figure. 

[Newby]

1 hour ago, denkea said:

But probably not universal.  

 

I had a 3 stroke adjustment on a day that I would call testing but not out of the ordinary.

 

Then I played in 38º weather with 20 mph winds and thought a PCC adjustment would be factored in.  But nope.  No adjustment whatsoever.  Go Figure. 

Are you suggesting that the algorithm didn't do it or that there was manual intervention?

It is built in to the WHS software.

[ChaosTheory]

Is is possible to see the adjustment for the day, if you haven’t recorded a round yourself?

Edited March 18, 2022 by Snowman9000

[denkea]

8 hours ago, Newby said:

Are you suggesting that the algorithm didn't do it or that there was manual intervention?

It is built in to the WHS software.

LOL.  God only knows.  I sure don't

[Shilgy]

4 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

Is is possible to see the adjustment for the day, if you haven’t recorded a round yourself?

He only way I know of would be to look up the scoring record of someone you know played that day…and posted it same day.

[Golferpaul]

On 3/18/2022 at 7:15 AM, denkea said:

But probably not universal.  

 

I had a 3 stroke adjustment on a day that I would call testing but not out of the ordinary.

 

Then I played in 38º weather with 20 mph winds and thought a PCC adjustment would be factored in.  But nope.  No adjustment whatsoever.  Go Figure. 

PCC isn't based on weather.  It's based on actual scores.

[Newby]

22 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

PCC isn't based on weather.  It's based on actual scores.

More specifically it's based on the actual scores compared with the expected scores of that cohort of players. 

[davep043]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:15 AM, denkea said:

Then I played in 38º weather with 20 mph winds and thought a PCC adjustment would be factored in.

Those are the days where I don't expect many people played, so relatively few rounds are posted.  Fewer than 8 scores posted (before midnight) means no adjustment at all.  

 

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

Those are the days where I don't expect many people played, so relatively few rounds are posted.  Fewer than 8 scores posted (before midnight) means no adjustment at all.  

 

And I'm guessing that the fewer scores that are posted (eg, 9, 10, 11) mean that the probability of an adjustment is lower.

[ChaosTheory]

I played in tough conditions with 100 golfers playing, and all scores posted by the league.  I was surprised to see no PCC.  They must all be good wind players! 🙂
 

Anyway now I know that at least the calculations were done.

[bladehunter]

12 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

I played in tough conditions with 100 golfers playing, and all scores posted by the league.  I was surprised to see no PCC.  They must all be good wind players! 🙂
 

Anyway now I know that at least the calculations were done.

I’ve found it to be pretty random myself. The only thing I can think of is that not many people must have posted on those days. 
 

Of the 20 showing scores on my ghin right now none have a pcc adjustment.  And these are all winter rounds.  Our posting season goes year round.  But we’ve played in some 35-40 degree days. Plenty of howling wind and loads of rain- so wet conditions….. if it’s not going to adjust then. When ? 

[Newby]

6 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I’ve found it to be pretty random myself. The only thing I can think of is that not many people must have posted on those days. 
 

Of the 20 showing scores on my ghin right now none have a pcc adjustment.  And these are all winter rounds.  Our posting season goes year round.  But we’ve played in some 35-40 degree days. Plenty of howling wind and loads of rain- so wet conditions….. if it’s not going to adjust then. When ? 

When pretty well all players on the day have a better or worse score than usual.

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, Newby said:

When pretty well all players on the day have a better or worse score than usual.

That’s my point.  What’s usual ?  I’d assume at some point wintertime made us all score worse or no ?   I just rarely see the pcc take effect.  Maybe it is a really rare thing ? I just alwasy notice it there because it shows - - - or something beside it if no numbers.  And I can’t recall the last time I saw numbers there. 

[rogolf]

For the life of me, I can't understand why so many golfers are concerned about/worried about PCC.  It is purely a statistical analysis of reported scores compared to expected scores, and very likely is set up to be implemented at a low frequency.

Some people must think that, if it appeared, it would be justification for their poor score.

[Newby]

8 hours ago, rogolf said:

For the life of me, I can't understand why so many golfers are concerned about/worried about PCC.  It is purely a statistical analysis of reported scores compared to expected scores, and very likely is set up to be implemented at a low frequency.

Some people must think that, if it appeared, it would be justification for their poor score.

It is pity they chose the name 'Playing Conditions' as it doesn't necessarily result from the conditions.

Something like 'Deviation from Norm' may have been more appropriate.

[bladehunter]

11 hours ago, rogolf said:

For the life of me, I can't understand why so many golfers are concerned about/worried about PCC.  It is purely a statistical analysis of reported scores compared to expected scores, and very likely is set up to be implemented at a low frequency.

Some people must think that, if it appeared, it would be justification for their poor score.

It’s just a curiosity….. kind of like why you’re worried about why I’m worried.    If they didn’t want you to pay attention to it, why put it front and center on the stats dashboard ?    Kind of like  me paying attention to the speedometer of a car.  It’s kind of in your face.  
 

i don’t see the harm in being curious.  It’s literally the root of all human knowledge.  

Edited March 21, 2022 by bladehunter

[ChaosTheory]

11 hours ago, rogolf said:

For the life of me, I can't understand why so many golfers are concerned about/worried about PCC.  It is purely a statistical analysis of reported scores compared to expected scores, and very likely is set up to be implemented at a low frequency.

Some people must think that, if it appeared, it would be justification for their poor score.

Isn’t that exactly what it is???  
 

[bladehunter]

1 minute ago, Snowman9000 said:

Isn’t that exactly what it is???  
 

It’s certainly a marker that explains the play and score pattern for the day.  Maybe everyone in the course got drunk the night before?  But most likely it’s an indicator of conditions.  And their effect on play for the day.  That’s why it’s curious to me.  It supposedly shows how everyone else faired in the days play.  But I wonder if enough are posting to effect it ?  I wish it showed an indicator for days that didn’t have enough scores to make judgements from.  I bet it’s often. 

[davep043]

22 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

It’s certainly a marker that explains the play and score pattern for the day.  Maybe everyone in the course got drunk the night before?  But most likely it’s an indicator of conditions.  And their effect on play for the day.  That’s why it’s curious to me.  It supposedly shows how everyone else faired in the days play.  But I wonder if enough are posting to effect it ?  I wish it showed an indicator for days that didn’t have enough scores to make judgements from.  I bet it’s often. 

Someone at your club has Admin access to the GHIN site.  Ask him to print out a list of scores on a few of those days.  The report can be made to show not only the day of play, but the day that the score was entered into GHIN.

[bladehunter]

4 hours ago, davep043 said:

Someone at your club has Admin access to the GHIN site.  Ask him to print out a list of scores on a few of those days.  The report can be made to show not only the day of play, but the day that the score was entered into GHIN.

Yep could do that.  But it’s not a strong enough urge really.  That’s a hornets nest that is best left kicked when you mean to call someone out.  I’m not questioning the actions  validity.  Just curious that its enactment never seems to coincide with the nastiest days. 

[davep043]

10 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Yep could do that.  But it’s not a strong enough urge really.  That’s a hornets nest that is best left kicked when you mean to call someone out.  I’m not questioning the actions  validity.  Just curious that its enactment never seems to coincide with the nastiest days. 

Without data, we're just guessing, but my guess is that relatively few people play on those days, and that a smaller-than-normal percentage of those who played choose to post their scores promptly.

[larrybud]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:15 AM, denkea said:

But probably not universal.  

 

I had a 3 stroke adjustment on a day that I would call testing but not out of the ordinary.

 

Then I played in 38º weather with 20 mph winds and thought a PCC adjustment would be factored in.  But nope.  No adjustment whatsoever.  Go Figure. 

 

In theory it's a good idea (in fact, I posted about it before the WHS, suggesting the course should put in an adjustment based on conditions during the time of play), but in practice it's mumbo jumbo.  I recall reading that only 8 scores need to be posted on a day for it to possibly kick in, which is a crazy low number of scores. And since the GHIN has no way to know when you played your round, or what kind of weather/conditions were at the time of the round (think TPC in the tourney a couple weeks ago, tough for certain guys, not tough for the others), it's pure guess work. That coupled with the fact they hide the formula/logic doesn't help matters.

I think we'd be better off without it the way it's implemented, imo.

[larrybud]

37 minutes ago, davep043 said:

Without data, we're just guessing, but my guess is that relatively few people play on those days, and that a smaller-than-normal percentage of those who played choose to post their scores promptly.

 

Would love to see the average number of score postings for the average public course pulling 200 rounds on a weekend. Maybe 20-30? 

[klebs01]

7 minutes ago, larrybud said:

 

Would love to see the average number of score postings for the average public course pulling 200 rounds on a weekend. Maybe 20-30? 

seems high. I would be surprised if it was 10. (I’m assuming no leagues or seasonal tee times)

[jmkenn0]

A couple of factors - you have to have at least 8 people posting essentially the day of (before midnight) on the day they played, scoring outside their normal range.  So if its a terrible day outside, with bad conditions, you probably aren't going to have that many people playing, and even then some of those people aren't going to post at all, and some will post the next day.   Really you need heavy users of the USGA app to get the day-of posting.

 

When the "noodles" were out during the pandemic, clearly it made putting easier, as we saw more of those PCC adjustments downward than upward.  So the opposite of the above, more people playing (or a normal amount), and better scoring so maybe they entered the scores quicker?

 

 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

Without data, we're just guessing, but my guess is that relatively few people play on those days, and that a smaller-than-normal percentage of those who played choose to post their scores promptly.

Yep. I’m sure it’s less although my course seems to be packed no matter what.  But I do suspect theyre not posting before midnight.  I’m guilty of that too.  I always back date it properly, but I seem to forget the posting until I set aside time to enter my data into the stats keeping app I use etc.