2022 KPMG Women's PGA Championship (Jun 23-26)

[golfortennis]

2 hours ago, RainShadow said:

I'm all for speeding up play, but why put the final group on the clock with 4 holes to play? In a Major?

Seems petty to me. 

And then to fine two of the three in the group after the round? What a joke.

They don't do this to the men.

Then rush the award ceremony to finish in their allotted TV time. After not showing the end of the round on Saturday?

The women get no respect and are constantly getting burned by the TV coverage....

 

 

 

So how many groups from the end get to play under a different set of rules than the others?  Does the second last group get this courtesy?  Third group?

 

Just because they are in the final group does not mean they get to avoid rules that applied to the rest of the field.  It was 2 hours and 50 minutes to play the front nine.  The TV window they had scheduled was until 4 pm, they teed off at 10:30 am.  10:30, and they still couldn't make the TV window(went over by about 5 or 10 minutes.

 

You want to not get burned by the TV coverage, finish within the window you are given.  The TV networks aren't a charity.  Something that doesn't get a large rating can't also not stay within the TV window the network gives them.   The LPGA needs to get their house in order before complaining about network treatment.  They should be glad they got the main network and not the US Senior Open.  

[EasyEd1]

Hey All,

 

First post I think however I may have registered as EasyEd (my usual moniker) years ago with a different email addy.

 

That said I can't really think of much of anything more painful in golf than Lexi with a putter in hand in a major so I'll offer my 2 cents Canadian.

 

My opinion is simple Lexi needs figure out two things:

1) The unanchored arm pendulum stroke from the shoulders simply does not work for her. I think her right arm messes up her putting. She is not anchored especially her upper right arm. It's like tin man on the wizard of oz tryin to putt. Sure she has other problems putting eyes closed? Really. Painful really painful to watch.

2) She is 6 feet tall an athletic. She needs to really clue in on others that were tall an very athletic like maybe the babe - she was anchored. Personally I think maybe a piston stroke like Nicklaus or Trevino might suit her better. I think the piston stroke is inherently more stable. Look at Jack Nicklaus an undeniably great putter - anybody really wanna argue with 18 majors? Both the pendulum and piston strokes work - but if one doesn't then consider the other. Irrespective she needs to start looking at alternatives.

 

I certainly wish her well and continue to be an exasperated fan.

 

-Ed-

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by EasyEd1
Wording

[Lobby]

Play slows down when the courses get difficult and the stakes are high.   If there's trouble for the approach shots, players will take a lot of time to decide the shot they're going to play.

That said, I play in 4 hours, and I hit the ball at least 15 times more than these ladies do.  

[golfortennis]

53 minutes ago, Lobby said:

Play slows down when the courses get difficult and the stakes are high.   If there's trouble for the approach shots, players will take a lot of time to decide the shot they're going to play.

That said, I play in 4 hours, and I hit the ball at least 15 times more than these ladies do.  

 

PLay slows down with *some* players when courses get difficult and "stakes are high."  But other players can do it in the allotted time.  So why the pass for the slow players?  

[Raving Shanker]

Just been reading the entire thread! I was interested in the live thread during the last round. I watch the golf on delay, so have to quarantine myself from Golf WRX.

 

I hate to say this, but at no point did I believe Lexi was going to win once she yipped the putt on 14. Not even the subsequent birdie on 15 changed my mind on that. Funnily enough I was watching it with a friend who has a passing interest in golf. Around 12, 13, he thought Lexi had it in the bag (he doesn't know golf!! lol). I explained to him that there was a long, long way to go. and Lexi, in particular, had a certain "issue" that might arise. In fact, it WOULD arise, I told him, but whether it would prevent her from winning was another matter. She might survive it. She duly exemplified my point with THAT putt on 14. That was it for me - she was gone. And I was right, because she was like a rabbit in spotlights after that. And draining the long putt from the back of 15 didn't shift my position - because it only ramped up Lexi's emotion further . Obviously, Atthaya and Minjee came into the picture briefly.

 

Well done by In Gee. I think she is an example of having her mind right. She just persisted. i thought she putted very well, without luck over the last two rounds, and that might have broken someone with lesser character (no names mentioned). But she stayed the course!

 

 

[Argonne69]

Pace of play goes right back at the officials. The first groups out set the pace. The trailing groups are only required to keep up with the group ahead. If the officials allow the lead group to play in 5 hours, then all groups will be on that 5 hour pace. No idea how a threesome can take 5 hours to play a round. 

 

In this case the final group fell two holes behind, and were rightfully put on the clock. However, even if they hadn't fallen behind it was still going to be a 5+ hour round. 

 

[postfold]

39 minutes ago, Raving Shanker said:

Well done by In Gee. I think she is an example of having her mind right. She just persisted.

 

Playing the back nine on Sunday under par, on that setup, having to come from behind after being in front all week long.  Yeah, that's major champion mental toughness right there.   

[Rapidcat]

In Gee's victory is a triumph for proper preparation (going there some weeks before the event, playing and assessing and from that bagging the best club combo).

 

Maybe a blueprint for others playing a course that they don't know for an important event?

[mcculld2]

$2000 fine - that's chump change  to Lexi. Talk about a token gesture.

Should be a penalty stroke for each clear hole you are behind the previous finishing group. (Unless there are extenuating circumstances that is)

I bet that would hurry them up!

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, mcculld2 said:

$2000 fine - that's chump change  to Lexi. Talk about a token gesture.

Should be a penalty stroke for each clear hole you are behind the previous finishing group. (Unless there are extenuating circumstances that is)

I bet that would hurry them up!

Cheers

 

 

Strokes are the only thing that will get players' attention.  Still find it shocking TV networks haven't put their foot down.  Messing up their schedule without any type of irregular event(weather delay, playoff, etc.) can't sit well with them.

[Yellow Jacket]

On 6/27/2022 at 2:43 AM, agolf1 said:

I think the carry distance is accurate/ties out to the total; I've always thought LPGA is getting 20-25 yards of roll on average of the course of the season.  Obviously, any particular hole could be < 5 yards or 50 yards depending on elevation, slopes, and turf conditions.

The holes they were measuring driving distance on were downhill, the long par 4 4th and the par 5 11th with the split fairway. I guess it doesn't matter that much if everyone's driving distance is slightly inflated due to downhill, especially since you usually only see the scorecard yardage, not what the holes are actually playing each day.

 

My final round group was Leona Maguire, Moriya Jutanugarn, and Cydney Clanton. They started +7 and Cydney shot +10 to finish 2nd to last (not including Hinako Shibuno's WD). It was interesting watching that, mainly missed putts inside 10 feet and some loose tee shots. Walking to our 17th green, Cydney's caddy joked, "Are we done yet?" I did get a signed ball from Moriya, so that joins with Lexi from round 1 and Emma Talley from the pro-am.

 

They did split tee starts due to the early TV window, so we were finishing on the front 9 while the leaders were finishing on the back 9. It was weird basically playing on an empty golf course with only Leona's sister and mom following our group at one point.

 

All in all I definitely want to be a walking scorer again. The 2023 US Women's Open is already full up for volunteers, probably because it's at Pebble Beach. I live in DC and could make the trip up to Baltusrol for next year's Women's PGA, but paying for a hotel for a week changes the calculus a bit--I guess I could just think of it as a vacation? I could stay with friends in Manhattan, but daily travel to/from the course on NJ Transit bus would be pretty exhausting.

[18majors]

 

Thanks, Dumbo!

 

 

[Argonne69]

19 minutes ago, 18majors said:

 

Thanks, Dumbo!

 

 

 

I'd love to believe that the masses tuned in to see her, but Lexi probably drove the numbers. 

 

[Lobby]

My golf cart has a gps that, in addition to giving me yardages, also clocks me and tells me whether I’m playing too slowly. 
 

Seems like a reasonable thing for the pro tours 

[Argonne69]

23 minutes ago, Lobby said:

My golf cart has a gps that, in addition to giving me yardages, also clocks me and tells me whether I’m playing too slowly. 
 

Seems like a reasonable thing for the pro tours 

 

The pros are only required to keep up with the group in front of them. If the lead group is playing on a 5 hour pace, there's not much the following groups can do about the pace. 

 

Once again, why are the tour officials allowing a 5+ hour pace for the first group out? 

 

As has been pointed out early, it's made for TV golf. In the majority of the rounds the final group finishes within the TV window. If there's a weather delay, rules delay, or playoff, then all bets are off. 

 

I've timed more shots than I can count. Players are "supposed" to play within 40 seconds, or 30 seconds of they're not the first to hit. Don't make me laugh. Players are routinely taking a minute to 2 minutes to hit. Absolutely love when a group gets to a green, has plenty of time to figure out the line/speed, and then the first player putts, and then the next player steps up and starts looking at their putt. What have they been doing for the last 2 minutes??? 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Argonne69

[Yellow Jacket]

The tee times for Sunday were actually moved up 20 minutes after the leaders took so long on Saturday (which included In Gee's double bogey adventure on 16). But all week players were taking almost 5 1/2 hours to play their rounds. I've never seen so much time taken over short putts.

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

 

The pros are only required to keep up with the group in front of them. If the lead group is playing on a 5 hour pace, there's not much the following groups can do about the pace. 

 

Once again, why are the tour officials allowing a 5+ hour pace for the first group out? 

 

As has been pointed out early, it's made for TV golf. In the majority of the rounds the final group finishes within the TV window. If there's a weather delay, rules delay, or playoff, then all bets are off. 

 

I've timed more shots than I can count. Players are "supposed" to play within 40 seconds, or 30 seconds of they're not the first to hit. Don't make me laugh. Players are routinely taking a minute to 2 minutes to hit. Absolutely love when a group gets to a green, has plenty of time to figure out the line/speed, and then the first player putts, and then the next player steps up and starts looking at their putt. What have they been doing for the last 2 minutes??? 

 

 

They finish in the TV window because they tee off so dang early.  5:45 for the last group.  5:45.  I'm shocked it's only a $2,000 fine. 

 

Spot on about the "out of position" and early groups allowed to be slow.

 

In fairness, I think it was Harbor Town where the final group had two open holes when they were the only group left on the course.  How does *that* not get a stroke?   

[Argonne69]

1 hour ago, golfortennis said:

 

They finish in the TV window because they tee off so dang early.  5:45 for the last group.  5:45.  I'm shocked it's only a $2,000 fine. 

 

Spot on about the "out of position" and early groups allowed to be slow.

 

In fairness, I think it was Harbor Town where the final group had two open holes when they were the only group left on the course.  How does *that* not get a stroke?   

 

When a group falls behind, they get a warning. If they don't close the gap they get put on the clock. If their times are good at that point, or they catch up, there's no penalty. A group could fall several holes behind by several holes, but if each player doesn't exceed their time there'll be no penalty. 

 

[Lobby]

The more tv time they get, the more sponsor $ they get (from clothing logos)

 

Always follow the $

[NikeGolfer76]

I was actually in attendance on Friday and Saturday. Regarding PoP, what stood out to me was the players’ tendency to mark short putts rather than finish the hole. Didn’t appear to matter whether it was for birdie, par, or double bogey+, seemed like the entire field would mark. Of course, that extra caution was too often justified by the number of missed “gimme” putts (lol).

 

There were two other instances of noteworthy slow play. First was the excruciating waiting periods between holes.  The worst case being—on Friday morning—where Lexi, Hull, and Shibuno seemed to wait forever from finishing their putts on the 14th to finally hitting their tee shots on 15. Considering the general goal is to keep pace with the group in front of you, the average wait between holes definitely seemed unusually long.

 

Secondly, at times the delays almost made you want to yell out, “hey play Ready Golf!” I’ll probably get roasted by typing this, but there was one hole on the back nine (Saturday) where it seemed that Minjee and Hannah Green seemingly could’ve finished the hole and been hitting their 2nd shots on the next before Henderson played her approach to the green. In full disclosure I was standing by the green, so I couldn’t really determine what may have happened to Brooke’s tee shot to have caused that delay—maybe they were waiting on a ruling. But regardless, waiting for Brooke to finally play her approach was gut wrenching. Crazy thing was even with that delay, when the group made it to the next tee, the group in front still wasn’t on the green. So bottom line, there was an abundance of slow play to go around.

 

Funny to note that a lot of times, the other golfers would actually proceed to the next tee while the final golfer was finishing the hole.  So it did appear to be a certain sense of awareness within the groups to pick up the pace. It just didn’t seem to matter; every grouping was playing to a 5+ hour pace.

 

But keeping it real, I’ve never played for a million dollar winner’s check. Therefore since I can’t really relate, I’m not trying to be overly critical. I actually had a great time. Unfortunately for those in attendance, removing so many of the trees (from the prior course layout) resulted in extended exposure to direct sunlight. Friday wasn’t horrible because it was generally overcast, but Saturday was a different story as it was mostly sunny all day. To that point, can’t end this (long) post without giving kudos to KPMG for providing complimentary water (Aquafina) to the crowd on Saturday (and Sunday I assume). It definitely made a difference in the intense sunlight, and was most genuinely appreciated. 

[golfortennis]

12 hours ago, Lobby said:

The more tv time they get, the more sponsor $ they get (from clothing logos)

 

Always follow the $

 

Are you saying this is why they are slow?  That may work for a while, but when TV decides the LPGA is more trouble than it's worth, then what?  Sponsors won't be paying for no tv time.  

[golfortennis]

3 hours ago, NikeGolfer76 said:

I was actually in attendance on Friday and Saturday. Regarding PoP, what stood out to me was the players’ tendency to mark short putts rather than finish the hole. Didn’t appear to matter whether it was for birdie, par, or double bogey+, seemed like the entire field would mark. Of course, that extra caution was too often justified by the number of missed “gimme” putts (lol).

 

There were two other instances of noteworthy slow play. First was the excruciating waiting periods between holes.  The worst case being—on Friday morning—where Lexi, Hull, and Shibuno seemed to wait forever from finishing their putts on the 14th to finally hitting their tee shots on 15. Considering the general goal is to keep pace with the group in front of you, the average wait between holes definitely seemed unusually long.

 

Secondly, at times the delays almost made you want to yell out, “hey play Ready Golf!” I’ll probably get roasted by typing this, but there was one hole on the back nine (Saturday) where it seemed that Minjee and Hannah Green seemingly could’ve finished the hole and been hitting their 2nd shots on the next before Henderson played her approach to the green. In full disclosure I was standing by the green, so I couldn’t really determine what may have happened to Brooke’s tee shot to have caused that delay—maybe they were waiting on a ruling. But regardless, waiting for Brooke to finally play her approach was gut wrenching. Crazy thing was even with that delay, when the group made it to the next tee, the group in front still wasn’t on the green. So bottom line, there was an abundance of slow play to go around.

 

Funny to note that a lot of times, the other golfers would actually proceed to the next tee while the final golfer was finishing the hole.  So it did appear to be a certain sense of awareness within the groups to pick up the pace. It just didn’t seem to matter; every grouping was playing to a 5+ hour pace.

 

But keeping it real, I’ve never played for a million dollar winner’s check. Therefore since I can’t really relate, I’m not trying to be overly critical. I actually had a great time. Unfortunately for those in attendance, removing so many of the trees (from the prior course layout) resulted in extended exposure to direct sunlight. Friday wasn’t horrible because it was generally overcast, but Saturday was a different story as it was mostly sunny all day. To that point, can’t end this (long) post without giving kudos to KPMG for providing complimentary water (Aquafina) to the crowd on Saturday (and Sunday I assume). It definitely made a difference in the intense sunlight, and was most genuinely appreciated. 

 

Does anyone know what has happened with Henderson?  She used to be a fast player.  Then somewhere she just did a 180.  She has been egregious since at least the win in LA last year.  

 

Don't feel bad about being critical.  Remember, there are players out there playing for the same money who can get the job done in the allotted time.  Slow players shouldn't be coddled.

 

Good on KPMG for handing out the water(and for buying a Pepsi product from a happy shareholder  🤣).  

[ChipDriver]

IMO "women's sports" plus slow play isn't a winning recipe for better tv contracts.  On NBC they were competing with NASCAR for goodness sakes.  😞    While NASCAR/racing is supposed to be one of the leading tv sports revenue generators, it shows how little the networks think of LPGA/ladies golf.    Slow play isn't going to help move that.   FWIW even the tournament changed it's schedule (started play earlier - so that they can fit into the allotted time from NBC) to accommodate the network probably understanding that NBC wasn't going to accommodate the LPGA.  I am in the camp that says "put them on a clock" (which is the discretionary decision) but then after that - zero discretion - stroke penalty if the buzzer goes off.  Same as with tennis.   The slow speed kills interest in tv viewing.  Just my own opinion.  Shot clocks are in lots of sports now - NFL; NBA; tennis; they all adapt.  Same here for golf too IMO.

 

I  played the course yesterday - perfect weather day.   Played from 6200 yards (shorter than LPGA). Course was drier and had some run in it. Greens were firm by dry.   Shot 87 with my regular bogey golf game; couple of pars/couple of doubles; 2 birdies. On 18 I parred it by hitting the speed slot on the left to 90 yards; bumped a 4 wood down to the front, 2 putts.  ** I went back and tried the In Gee shot on 18 and put 2 out of 3 in the water.  Fun day.

Edited June 29, 2022 by ChipDriver

[AWinfortheAges]

I have no idea if my Twitter feed picks up similar golf posts from week to week, but from what I saw Monday the mood on Lexi has moved from mostly supportive (post ANA ball marking gate & CME missed putt) to more mocking, as if a blown opportunity is expected. 

 

It surprised me because she's been the US golden & it girl and seemingly teflon when it comes to criticism.

Although she won between the ANA & CME let downs and the recent US Open & KPMG let downs, the wins were mostly regular tour stops and the recent let downs nationally televised majors. Are the US casual fans looking for (or already found) another favorite?

 

One thing is for sure, she'll never lose the support of Beth Ann and Ron Sirak. Which is why I don't understand why she didn't take questions from the media for a second time. The US LPGA media won't go in  hard on her (or any other LPGA pro). I think she or any other athlete should possess the composure to take the first 3 or 4 questions minimum.  

 

 

[Golf Dino]

1 hour ago, AWinfortheAges said:

Are the US casual fans looking for (or already found) another favorite?

 

That group has gone all in on Nelly Korda.   And you're fairly accurate about much of the mainstream golf media that is favourable towards Lexi.  I suspect a great deal of that goodwill comes from Lexi's willingness to speak to reporters and even during the let down at last year's USWO.   She's taken time to sign autographs for the kids post 72nd hole both at Olympic Club and at Congressional.  

In contrast to Lexi, Nelly has been extremely elusive if not aloof.   This was most pronounced after she refused to speak to the media post Olympic gold medal (and at the AIG Women's Open - her first event post Olympics).  But, I suspect many casual and not so casual golf fans are flocking to embrace Nelly instead of Lexi as their "champion" to bring home more major titles.   

 

As they say, everyone loves a winner.  And on the eve of the Tour de France. . . it seems only the French embrace a loveable loser.  🙂 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Golf Dino

[iBanesto]

[Yellow Jacket]

18 hours ago, Golf Dino said:

 

That group has gone all in on Nelly Korda.   And you're fairly accurate about much of the mainstream golf media that is favourable towards Lexi.  I suspect a great deal of that goodwill comes from Lexi's willingness to speak to reporters and even during the let down at last year's USWO.   She's taken time to sign autographs for the kids post 72nd hole both at Olympic Club and at Congressional.  

In contrast to Lexi, Nelly has been extremely elusive if not aloof.   This was most pronounced after she refused to speak to the media post Olympic gold medal (and at the AIG Women's Open - her first event post Olympics).  But, I suspect many casual and not so casual golf fans are flocking to embrace Nelly instead of Lexi as their "champion" to bring home more major titles.   

 

As they say, everyone loves a winner.  And on the eve of the Tour de France. . . it seems only the French embrace a loveable loser.  🙂 

Yeah Nelly is now the top draw in women’s golf. But I also share your observation that she doesn’t seem particularly media friendly. I already had that sense based on her post-round interviews and seeing her in person last week did nothing to change my opinion. Minjee has a similar thing going on but for a different reason, where her interview answers are really short (see US Open trophy presentation). I wonder if it’s because the LPGA is much more international than the PGA Tour with stronger language barriers that causes players to sort of retreat into their inner circle (caddy, coach, agent, etc).

 

By contrast, Lydia seems really good with the media but her ever present mom seems to make things more challenging for fans in person. Those 3, Nelly, Minjee, and Lydia are my favorites as a fan.

 

 

I didn’t try to get any autographs because I’m really shy about that kind of thing, but on Wednesday, as Minjee finished her practice round, she came off the 9th green and walked toward me almost that made it seem like she was expecting me to ask for an autograph. I was the only person standing in the spot between the 9th green and putting green and there was plenty of room around me and we basically brushed shoulder. Very strange yet memorable. In retrospect, I believe she was walking down 10 and past that green to get to the Golf Channel booth for an interview.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Yellow Jacket

[Argonne69]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Jacket said:

Yeah Nelly is now the top draw in women’s golf. But I also share your observation that she doesn’t seem particularly media friendly. I already had that sense based on her post-round interviews and seeing her in person last week did nothing to change my opinion. Minjee has a similar thing going on but for a different reason, where her interview answers are really short (see US Open trophy presentation). I wonder if it’s because the LPGA is much more international than the PGA Tour with stronger language barriers that causes players to sort of retreat into their inner circle (caddy, coach, agent, etc).

 

I don't think it's a language barrier with Minjee. She grew up in Perth. I think she's just naturally shy. 

 

[Yellow Jacket]

Just now, Argonne69 said:

 

I don't think it's a language barrier with Minjee. She grew up in Perth. I think she's just naturally shy. 

 

Sorry, I should’ve been more clear. I know she speaks English natively. I meant that because the LPGA has more language barriers, players sort of stick to their inner circles which also shows up in how they interact with media and fans.

 

But Minjee specifically does seem a bit camera shy.

[Golf Dino]

 

Minjee has a reputation for being one of the most shy or bashful players on the LPGA . . . when she does speak to people publicly, it is for the most part, warm and engaging.