LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[idrive]

1 hour ago, PZero said:

Nope, but Cohen is a garbage tier person. Keeping him away from the tour would be best. 

 

Pick your poison. I'll take SSG.

[idrive]

22 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

Just saw the pro-am pairings, no way Tom Brady is a 8 Handicap 😂

 

While you're probably right... my guess is TB's been playing a lot of golf. 

[billyspan]

2 hours ago, 3whacker said:

that may be HALF right, those that had majors in their trophy case, got what they wanted, those the realistically career  Tour players and whose major window had passed them by made a business decision....I read somewhere that DJ is now #203 in the OWGR, thats ludicrous

DJ has played poorly in the majors last year (at least one MC in the majors since 2021) and he played mediocre during the PGA Tour 2022 season.  Again, several MC's.  He is however, exempt into the Masters for life, through 2026 for the US Open and through 2025 for the British Open & US PGA Championship.

I do like watching him play.  Maybe this year he gets his major mojo back!

[billyspan]

3 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Majors have been devalued. 

Honestly, would be interested on you expanding on this thought.

 

For me, the majors have become even more "important" to the core golf fan.  Major Championship Golf first and foremost as competition meets entertainment rather than golf as entertainment.  I do love me some fall/winter national opens as well.

 

The PGA Tour needs to be careful about swinging too much into the golf as entertainment end.  The WGCs are a prime example.  

 

I may be totally bonkers here, but hear me out:

 

The PGA Tour's competitors are the European Tour and other OWGR tours when televised.

 

LIV's competitors are the YouTubers.

 

The PGA Tour and LIV are in competition with each other.  They are alternative choices offering different products all together.

[bekgolf]

2 minutes ago, billyspan said:

Honestly, would be interested on you expanding on this thought.

 

For me, the majors have become even more "important" to the core golf fan.  Major Championship Golf first and foremost as competition meets entertainment rather than golf as entertainment.  I do love me some fall/winter national opens as well.

 

The PGA Tour needs to be careful about swinging too much into the golf as entertainment end.  The WGCs are a prime example.  

 

I may be totally bonkers here, but hear me out:

 

The PGA Tour's competitors are the European Tour and other OWGR tours when televised.

 

LIV's competitors are the YouTubers.

 

The PGA Tour and LIV are in competition with each other.  They are alternative choices offering different products all together.

 

I hope I can put it into words...

 

I'm having a great time watching people I don't know compete in "lesser" events because they are competing with fire in their eyes and it really means something to them.  It's exciting competition.   

 

Majors don't matter to me anymore and they have stopped being special events.  I think it's because of the huge paydays some golfers got for abandoning their fans but I don't know for sure.  I know that I don't want to watch the sellouts play in anything so I have no desire to watch them blended in with the loyal golfers I watch almost every week on the PGA Tour.  

 

Maybe I'm the only golf fan who feels this way.  I hope I can get over it because I used to look forward to the Majors, now I just want to see PGA Tour competition.

[ewaldbeukes]

On 1/30/2024 at 3:55 AM, ahenderX said:

They see him on the Tour. You think more will see him on LIV?

I come from South Africa and to be honest, it was always hard even with Ernie Els and Retief Goosen at their prime to get to see your national heroes on television or a broadcast of any kind. Same with the new crop, Louis, Charl, Brandon, Dean. We see them more in the Open and Euro tour events than on the PGA Tour because of how the coverage gives preference even if someone is in contention to win. Since joining LIV these guys have done well with the team aspect (I think as a nation we often prefer that and do well so Stingers doing well is nice to see) but specifically, I actually get to see them play golf. So I watch much more LIV now than PGA Tour and while I may be in the minority against my US colleagues I bet that there are more internationals that feel the same. So I think the nail was hit on the head saying grow the game outside of the US if possible (for LIV). Make no mistake, the US audience is still crucial but taking top players to Japan, Korea, Australasia, South Africa... start combining that total interest and it could in combination surpass the US over time (35 vs 31m and growing) - the numbers are there (see below - snipped from previous post). Might be something there and whether that is being planned or not who knows... but as an International viewer I am definitely more engaged watching my countrymen on LIV and names I recognise. (TBH hought I am on Golfwrx and watch LIV, PGA Tour, LPGA Tour, Euro Tour, Champions Tour, Sunshine Tour, Asian Tour, Challenge Tour, Legends Tour, LET... - heck I would watch a local pitch and putt tournament if it was broadcast...)

 

Edited January 31 by ewaldbeukes
Spelling

[WorkItBothWays]

11 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

Nah, half of them do business with the PIF. Also it’ll be crazy seeing Yasir and Goodell watching Gary Player hit the honorary tee shot. 

Vomit inducing

[ahenderX]

5 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

I come from South Africa and to be honest, it was always hard even with Ernie Els and Retief Goosen at their prime to get to see your national heroes on television or a broadcast of any kind. Same with the new crop, Louis, Charl, Brandon, Dean. We see them more in the Open and Euro tour events than on the PGA Tour because of how the coverage gives preference even if someone is in contention to win. Since joining LIV these guys have done well with the team aspect (I think as a nation we often prefer that and do well so Stingers doing well is nice to see) but specifically, I actually get to see them play golf. So I watch much more LIV now than PGA Tour and while I may be in the minority against my US colleagues I bet that there are more internationals that feel the same. So I think the nail was hit on the head saying grow the game outside of the US if possible (for LIV). Make no mistake, the US audience is still crucial but taking top players to Japan, Korea, Australasia, South Africa... start combining that total interest and it could in combination surpass the US over time (35 vs 31m and growing) - the numbers are there (see below - snipped from previous post). Might be something there and whether that is being planned or not who knows... but as an International viewer I am definitely more engaged watching my countrymen on LIV and names I recognise. (TBH hought I am on Golfwrx and watch LIV, PGA Tour, LPGA Tour, Euro Tour, Champions Tour, Sunshine Tour, Asian Tour, Challenge Tour, Legends Tour, LET... - heck I would watch a local pitch and putt tournament if it was broadcast...)

 

I’m not convinced having a tour play one event each year in your country is going to grow the game of golf. Fewer than 1% of South Africans play golf — based on the graphic. There are 195 countries. I imagine there is at least one person in each country who has an opinion similar to yours. They all would like the PGA Tour (or possibly LIV) stage an event in their country. With that said, I keep having this thought. What benefit(s) will the PGA Tour or LIV receive by staging an event in South Africa? Does any golfer in Country A care about golf participation and growth in Country B? Rugby is a huge sport in South Africa. Almost twice as many people participate compared to golf. Has any South African professional rugby team played in the US?

[cmgolf]

I agree with your point of view. Golf is more and more international and the American market is not the only one anymore.

Using that chart plus the official population numbers for 2023 and calculating the % of population playing golf in each country we get :

 

 

Ireland 20,3%

Canada 13,8%

South Korea 10,2%

Scotland 9,2%

USA 7,5%

Australia 7,1%

Japan 6,7%

England 4,4%

Germany 2,5%

France 2,1%

Spain 1,2%

 

 

 

 

[freeze16172002]

6 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

I come from South Africa and to be honest, it was always hard even with Ernie Els and Retief Goosen at their prime to get to see your national heroes on television or a broadcast of any kind. Same with the new crop, Louis, Charl, Brandon, Dean. We see them more in the Open and Euro tour events than on the PGA Tour because of how the coverage gives preference even if someone is in contention to win. Since joining LIV these guys have done well with the team aspect (I think as a nation we often prefer that and do well so Stingers doing well is nice to see) but specifically, I actually get to see them play golf. So I watch much more LIV now than PGA Tour and while I may be in the minority against my US colleagues I bet that there are more internationals that feel the same. So I think the nail was hit on the head saying grow the game outside of the US if possible (for LIV). Make no mistake, the US audience is still crucial but taking top players to Japan, Korea, Australasia, South Africa... start combining that total interest and it could in combination surpass the US over time (35 vs 31m and growing) - the numbers are there (see below - snipped from previous post). Might be something there and whether that is being planned or not who knows... but as an International viewer I am definitely more engaged watching my countrymen on LIV and names I recognise. (TBH hought I am on Golfwrx and watch LIV, PGA Tour, LPGA Tour, Euro Tour, Champions Tour, Sunshine Tour, Asian Tour, Challenge Tour, Legends Tour, LET... - heck I would watch a local pitch and putt tournament if it was broadcast...)

 

In the US atleast for me is the competition, Players come and go. American football, hockey, baseball, college football, Match Madness especially playoffs people tune in to watch the game, because there is something on the line. LIV's format is a disgrace to sports it is the complete opposite of what sports should be. They play meaningless events that are fake hyped, where half the field is just playing out the clock to crowd of free ticket holders. Every other sport is filled with players based on perfomance, if you're good enough you can play. LIV players are picked not based on performance but how it will hurt the PGAT. Then throw in the goofy team names, the same picture poses for everyone, the same statements from everyone it just a fake league with a cringe format

[WorkItBothWays]

When McIlory says no punishment he can't be suggesting a player can be owned by LIV and a member of the PGA Tour. If LIV owned players eventually do end up playing PGA Tour events surely they can't have PGA Tour member status so no FedEx Cup and so on. 

[One Putter]

The funniest part is liv golfers arent allowed to play on the PGA anymore per the terms of their contract right? Doesnt matter if the PGA says its OK. I don't imagine you'd want to be paying people $100m to go and play elsewhere, and have more people watching them play in that event rather than your event, so the whole idea of "let them play the PGA tour" is silly all around.

Edited January 31 by One Putter

[bscinstnct]

6 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

I come from South Africa and to be honest, it was always hard even with Ernie Els and Retief Goosen at their prime to get to see your national heroes on television or a broadcast of any kind. Same with the new crop, Louis, Charl, Brandon, Dean. We see them more in the Open and Euro tour events than on the PGA Tour because of how the coverage gives preference even if someone is in contention to win. Since joining LIV these guys have done well with the team aspect (I think as a nation we often prefer that and do well so Stingers doing well is nice to see) but specifically, I actually get to see them play golf. So I watch much more LIV now than PGA Tour and while I may be in the minority against my US colleagues I bet that there are more internationals that feel the same. So I think the nail was hit on the head saying grow the game outside of the US if possible (for LIV). Make no mistake, the US audience is still crucial but taking top players to Japan, Korea, Australasia, South Africa... start combining that total interest and it could in combination surpass the US over time (35 vs 31m and growing) - the numbers are there (see below - snipped from previous post). Might be something there and whether that is being planned or not who knows... but as an International viewer I am definitely more engaged watching my countrymen on LIV and names I recognise. (TBH hought I am on Golfwrx and watch LIV, PGA Tour, LPGA Tour, Euro Tour, Champions Tour, Sunshine Tour, Asian Tour, Challenge Tour, Legends Tour, LET... - heck I would watch a local pitch and putt tournament if it was broadcast...)

 

 

I understand your sentiments and there is an opportunity for LIV to be an international tour. 
 

The question is whether it can ultimately fund itself. Even without the billions in sign ons, it’s a billion a year in purses/expenses. 
 

The PGA Tour produces a billion+ in revenue but that’s with an infrastructure of courses, an ecosystem of media, and a fan base on one continent with time zones that the entire country can watch. 
And, per your pic, US has nearly 1/2 of global golf participants. 
 

An international tour has major complications to convert the “other” 50%, primarily time zones. 
 

F1 has such massive following that no matter where they race, there’s many millions of fans in that time zone to watch. 
 

With golf, if an event is in Europe, you’ve got a strong fan base in the time zone, but unless it’s the Open, you’re not getting the viewing numbers to fund such massive purses. And the Asia/Australia fan base definitely can’t fund them. 
 

Unless…PiF just continues to find LIV without regard for loses. It’s possible, a billion a year in loses with perhaps incremental mitigation of the loses may be acceptable for them. 
 

And if they make a deal with the tour, both sides can capitalize on a stronger pool of talent and x-over play.

 

But, LIV will need to agree to stopping huge sign on bonuses to steal players. If guys want to play liv, that’s fine but not just because they are being given 💰 to “retire” from the pga tour. 

[Titleist99]

6 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

I hope I can put it into words...

 

I'm having a great time watching people I don't know compete in "lesser" events because they are competing with fire in their eyes and it really means something to them.  It's exciting competition.   

 

Majors don't matter to me anymore and they have stopped being special events.  I think it's because of the huge paydays some golfers got for abandoning their fans but I don't know for sure.  I know that I don't want to watch the sellouts play in anything so I have no desire to watch them blended in with the loyal golfers I watch almost every week on the PGA Tour.  

 

Maybe I'm the only golf fan who feels this way.  I hope I can get over it because I used to look forward to the Majors, now I just want to see PGA Tour competition.

"Maybe I'm the only golf fan who feels this way.  I hope I can get over it because I used to look forward to the Majors, now I just want to see PGA Tour competition."

 

Rest assured; you are not alone. Many wish the Saudi players would take the cash and go away. The Masters was devalued to me when they invited 18 Saudi players out of a field of 80. One of their newest employees won the tournament (JR).

 

I personally don't want to see those players now or in the future.

 

~The PGAT is just fine now the way it is. IMO The past two years have been the most entertaining tournaments without those guys. IMO

 

** The lawsuits and the trashing of the PGAT when most were going out the door certainly didn't help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ewaldbeukes]

42 minutes ago, ahenderX said:

I’m not convinced having a tour play one event each year in your country is going to grow the game of golf. Fewer than 1% of South Africans play golf — based on the graphic. There are 195 countries. I imagine there is at least one person in each country who has an opinion similar to yours. They all would like the PGA Tour (or possibly LIV) stage an event in their country. With that said, I keep having this thought. What benefit(s) will the PGA Tour or LIV receive by staging an event in South Africa? Does any golfer in Country A care about golf participation and growth in Country B? Rugby is a huge sport in South Africa. Almost twice as many people participate compared to golf. Has any South African professional rugby team played in the US?

Let me try and shed some light here...

 

South African is a very unequal society we have a population of close to 60m people but only about 6m taxpayers. So you can imagine that if you see the 54m people living in poverty as an opportunity your numbers will skew. So if you think about it SA has about the same "participation rate" as the US just with a much smaller pool. To the point about Rugby, the US team is called the Eagles and yes the springboks have played them in the US, you also host Rugby 7s, cricket etc... so yes, a little bit of reading will confirm that is the case. 

 

My point was not that hosting a LIV tournament in South Africa would make a difference. We have a solid participation rate, we have hosted a Presidents Cup, a World Cup etc golf in SA is fine. The point is that when South Africans play, South Africans watch. My contention was then if you look at Japan, Korea, the Europe your audience is much larger and the opportunity greater with less competition then in the US. I honsetly dont understand the BS about "growing the game". Companies are looking to grow revenue, you do that where there are eyeballs and interest. If you stage an event, even better but its the platform and opportunity for people around the globe to get engaged. Then the systems on the ground in those countries will do the rest. South Africa, as small as its golfing population is has the 4th most major championship wins in golf... so something is working. Australia is close behind and look at the great interest post LIV Adelaide. 

 

So its not a LIV against the PGA Tour argument, its just good business to take golf international to "grow the support" and in time the money. LIV is 2 years old... they are throwing cash like many start ups - I stand corrected but I dont think Uber is profitable yet but we dont see everyone bagging on them for throwing shitloads of money into that business. 

[Titleist99]

29 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

I understand your sentiments and there is an opportunity for LIV to be an international tour. 
 

The question is whether it can ultimately fund itself. Even without the billions in sign ons, it’s a billion a year in purses/expenses. 
 

The PGA Tour produces a billion+ in revenue but that’s with an infrastructure of courses, an ecosystem of media, and a fan base on one continent with time zones that the entire country can watch. 
And, per your pic, US has nearly 1/2 of global golf participants. 
 

An international tour has major complications to convert the “other” 50%, primarily time zones. 
 

F1 has such massive following that no matter where they race, there’s many millions of fans in that time zone to watch. 
 

With golf, if an event is in Europe, you’ve got a strong fan base in the time zone, but unless it’s the Open, you’re not getting the viewing numbers to fund such massive purses. And the Asia/Australia fan base definitely can’t fund them. 
 

Unless…PiF just continues to find LIV without regard for loses. It’s possible, a billion a year in loses with perhaps incremental mitigation of the loses may be acceptable for them. 
 

And if they make a deal with the tour, both sides can capitalize on a stronger pool of talent and x-over play.

 

But, LIV will need to agree to stopping huge sign on bonuses to steal players. If guys want to play liv, that’s fine but not just because they are being given 💰 to “retire” from the pga tour. 

Right, don't make sense when some say that they want to be a global tour.

 

Losing billions to make Saudi Arabia a tourist destination is beyond foolishness to me.

[ewaldbeukes]

36 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

I understand your sentiments and there is an opportunity for LIV to be an international tour. 
 

The question is whether it can ultimately fund itself. Even without the billions in sign ons, it’s a billion a year in purses/expenses. 
 

The PGA Tour produces a billion+ in revenue but that’s with an infrastructure of courses, an ecosystem of media, and a fan base on one continent with time zones that the entire country can watch. 
And, per your pic, US has nearly 1/2 of global golf participants. 
 

An international tour has major complications to convert the “other” 50%, primarily time zones. 
 

F1 has such massive following that no matter where they race, there’s many millions of fans in that time zone to watch. 
 

With golf, if an event is in Europe, you’ve got a strong fan base in the time zone, but unless it’s the Open, you’re not getting the viewing numbers to fund such massive purses. And the Asia/Australia fan base definitely can’t fund them. 
 

Unless…PiF just continues to find LIV without regard for loses. It’s possible, a billion a year in loses with perhaps incremental mitigation of the loses may be acceptable for them. 
 

And if they make a deal with the tour, both sides can capitalize on a stronger pool of talent and x-over play.

 

But, LIV will need to agree to stopping huge sign on bonuses to steal players. If guys want to play liv, that’s fine but not just because they are being given 💰 to “retire” from the pga tour. 

I appreciate this angle and I think you raise valid points. The stated business models that LIV is slated to be following are the T20 / IPL Cricket and F1 style models. When shorter forms of cricket came out it was shunned as being so far removed from "traditional" cricket. Now players get paid millions to play around the world on a limited schedule for teams where owners have equity (see the comparison). Indian is dominent and is a multi billion dollar enterprise... it didnt exist 10 years ago. The guys had vision and deep pockets. There is major fan support for a English or South African player that plays for the Rajastan Royals as and example and that fan base is massive. Now there is so much equity in those brands that the T20 cricket has a South African variant and one of the local teams is called the Paarl Royals (sharing the mother branding). Its not about selling tickets at the ground - if that was a large lever for income your doomed.

 

Media and golf has also changed. So much media spend is on social, engagement and non-traditional forms of media. We cannot keep ramming our heads against the wall of Nielson ratings only - that was the world 10 years ago. Saudi has deep pockets, enough to spend the money in a meaningless way just to show they have it or to hold the line and eventually raise a profit. There are trillion $ construction projects in Saudi that are literally being built to showcase what can be done. A few billion dollars is chump change... we forget that. If PIF wants to get into golf and build an industry, they literally can... 

Edited January 31 by ewaldbeukes
.

[ewaldbeukes]

Anyway, aside from the politics I am really interested in the upcoming tournament in Mayakoba. Even more curious to see if AK comes out of the woodwork!

[Titleist99]

13 minutes ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Let me try and shed some light here...

 

South African is a very unequal society we have a population of close to 60m people but only about 6m taxpayers. So you can imagine that if you see the 54m people living in poverty as an opportunity your numbers will skew. So if you think about it SA has about the same "participation rate" as the US just with a much smaller pool. To the point about Rugby, the US team is called the Eagles and yes the springboks have played them in the US, you also host Rugby 7s, cricket etc... so yes, a little bit of reading will confirm that is the case. 

 

My point was not that hosting a LIV tournament in South Africa would make a difference. We have a solid participation rate, we have hosted a Presidents Cup, a World Cup etc golf in SA is fine. The point is that when South Africans play, South Africans watch. My contention was then if you look at Japan, Korea, the Europe your audience is much larger and the opportunity greater with less competition then in the US. I honsetly dont understand the BS about "growing the game". Companies are looking to grow revenue, you do that where there are eyeballs and interest. If you stage an event, even better but its the platform and opportunity for people around the globe to get engaged. Then the systems on the ground in those countries will do the rest. South Africa, as small as its golfing population is has the 4th most major championship wins in golf... so something is working. Australia is close behind and look at the great interest post LIV Adelaide. 

 

So its not a LIV against the PGA Tour argument, its just good business to take golf international to "grow the support" and in time the money. LIV is 2 years old... they are throwing cash like many start ups - I stand corrected but I dont think Uber is profitable yet but we dont see everyone bagging on them for throwing shitloads of money into that business. 

"So its not a LIV against the PGA Tour argument, its just good business to take golf international to "grow the support" and in time the money. LIV is 2 years old... they are throwing cash like many start ups - I stand corrected but I dont think Uber is profitable yet but we dont see everyone bagging on them for throwing shitloads of money into that business. "

 

Uber is up 11% and it is profitable. LIV is two years in @ Approx. $2B. 

 

When do you expect LIV golf to be profitable?

[aus10KC]

8 hours ago, billyspan said:

DJ has played poorly in the majors last year (at least one MC in the majors since 2021) and he played mediocre during the PGA Tour 2022 season.  Again, several MC's.  He is however, exempt into the Masters for life, through 2026 for the US Open and through 2025 for the British Open & US PGA Championship.

I do like watching him play.  Maybe this year he gets his major mojo back!

 

DJ is going to try a little harder.

 

https://www.livgolf.com/news/dj-reed-say-4aces-ready-to-return-to-the-top

 

So, this year, I’ve been putting in a little more work

[stinger_gc]

the all South African team clearly isn’t working. As a stinger fan I was hoping we’d make a move for Min Woo Lee. Give the man 30 million for 3 years and watch the magic happened!

[the bishop]

Rory pull quote from linked article:

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/39428003/pga-tour-finalizes-3b-deal-liv-talks-continue

 

The PGA Tour policy board held meetings ahead of this week's AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am in California. The PGA Tour's player advisory council is scheduled to meet via conference call Wednesday morning. Rory McIlroy, who resigned from the PGA Tour policy board in November, told reporters Tuesday that a deal with SSG seemed imminent.

"I know that they were supposed to vote on it Sunday night, and there was a delay," McIlroy said Tuesday. "They were supposed to vote on it last night, and there was a delay. I feel like this thing could have been over and done with months ago. I think just for all of our sakes that the sooner that we sort of get out of it and we have a path forward, the better."

 

Translation:  I'm just sick of it all and want to turn the page.

[Neutral_Impact]

On the topic of South Africa, the European tour already has 5 events in South Africa, perhaps there would be some potential in making one of them co sanctioned or making one a rolex series event

[Titleist99]

9 hours ago, idrive said:

 

Pick your poison. I'll take SSG.

If it came down to a choice I agree. With the PIF continuing to poach players they're beginning to act like they'll go alone on their golf journey. If this is the case an Option for the PGAT and SSG is to go nuclear and contract its players and squash LIV in its tracks.

 

LIV Golf has no system other than the Asian tour to replenish their talent.

 

~Just something to think about.🙂

[ewaldbeukes]

2 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

"So its not a LIV against the PGA Tour argument, its just good business to take golf international to "grow the support" and in time the money. LIV is 2 years old... they are throwing cash like many start ups - I stand corrected but I dont think Uber is profitable yet but we dont see everyone bagging on them for throwing shitloads of money into that business. "

 

Uber is up 11% and it is profitable. LIV is two years in @ Approx. $2B. 

 

When do you expect LIV golf to be profitable?

Amid an economic backdrop characterized by inflation and competitive pressures, ride-hailing behemoth, Uber, has accomplished a historic milestone by reporting its first-ever operating profit in Q2 2023.

 

This achievement comes after navigating cumulative operating losses of $31.5 billion since revealing its financial details in 2014, signalling a significant turnaround in its financial trajectory.

 

Fueled by a post-pandemic demand for rides and a seemingly successful push toward food delivery, the company's financials took a notable swing from a prior year loss of $713 million to a pretax profit of $326 million in the second quarter of 2023 ending in July.

 

https://www.techloy.com/uber-profit-2023/#:~:text=Amid%20an%20economic%20backdrop%20characterized,operating%20profit%20in%20Q2%202023.

 

Not sure of the maths on this one? Uber still about $30bn in the hole?  Its been operating for over 10 + years...

Edited January 31 by ewaldbeukes
.

[ewaldbeukes]

1 hour ago, Neutral_Impact said:

On the topic of South Africa, the European tour already has 5 events in South Africa, perhaps there would be some potential in making one of them co sanctioned or making one a rolex series event

The events used to be co-sanctioned by the European tour, but now mostly that has changed to align to the challenge tour. The Nedbank Golf Challenge is now a Rolex Series event as part of the Euro Tour and Max Homa won this year - its a a nice event (used to be an invitational with a limited field which was great... got great talent through the years including Seve, Tiger, Ernie all the top Euro and US greats...).

[ahenderX]

2 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Let me try and shed some light here...

 

South African is a very unequal society we have a population of close to 60m people but only about 6m taxpayers. So you can imagine that if you see the 54m people living in poverty as an opportunity your numbers will skew. So if you think about it SA has about the same "participation rate" as the US just with a much smaller pool. To the point about Rugby, the US team is called the Eagles and yes the springboks have played them in the US, you also host Rugby 7s, cricket etc... so yes, a little bit of reading will confirm that is the case. 

 

My point was not that hosting a LIV tournament in South Africa would make a difference. We have a solid participation rate, we have hosted a Presidents Cup, a World Cup etc golf in SA is fine. The point is that when South Africans play, South Africans watch. My contention was then if you look at Japan, Korea, the Europe your audience is much larger and the opportunity greater with less competition then in the US. I honsetly dont understand the BS about "growing the game". Companies are looking to grow revenue, you do that where there are eyeballs and interest. If you stage an event, even better but its the platform and opportunity for people around the globe to get engaged. Then the systems on the ground in those countries will do the rest. South Africa, as small as its golfing population is has the 4th most major championship wins in golf... so something is working. Australia is close behind and look at the great interest post LIV Adelaide. 

 

So its not a LIV against the PGA Tour argument, its just good business to take golf international to "grow the support" and in time the money. LIV is 2 years old... they are throwing cash like many start ups - I stand corrected but I dont think Uber is profitable yet but we dont see everyone bagging on them for throwing shitloads of money into that business. 

Good post. Uber has turned a profit. Uber also has more than one investor. My daughter only has one golfer’s autograph. Retief Goosen. We watched him at the AT&T tournament at Sugarloaf years ago. We were very close to him when he was teeing off. Right before he hit, a flock of low flying geese flew over him. Fitting considering his nickname is the Goose. It was a fun day.

Edited January 31 by ahenderX

[Holy Moses]

3 hours ago, One Putter said:

The funniest part is liv golfers arent allowed to play on the PGA anymore per the terms of their contract right? Doesnt matter if the PGA says its OK. I don't imagine you'd want to be paying people $100m to go and play elsewhere, and have more people watching them play in that event rather than your event, so the whole idea of "let them play the PGA tour" is silly all around.

They can play on the DP World Tour if they didn’t resign their membership, so I don’t know why they also couldn’t play on the PGA Tour if they didn’t resign their membership on that tour

[Holy Moses]

2 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

"So its not a LIV against the PGA Tour argument, its just good business to take golf international to "grow the support" and in time the money. LIV is 2 years old... they are throwing cash like many start ups - I stand corrected but I dont think Uber is profitable yet but we dont see everyone bagging on them for throwing shitloads of money into that business. "

 

Uber is up 11% and it is profitable. LIV is two years in @ Approx. $2B. 

 

When do you expect LIV golf to be profitable?

When they sell their teams to the PGA Tour 😂

[Gregakin]

1 minute ago, Holy Moses said:

They can play on the DP World Tour if they didn’t resign their membership, so I don’t know why they also couldn’t play on the PGA Tour if they didn’t resign their membership on that tour

Same reason I can't moonlight for my companies competitor in the telecom sector.  Baffling why ppl don't understand the business side of competing tours.