LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[idrive]

 

for those not clicking on the link.

 

"If the fans are upset, then look at the guys that left," Scheffler said Tuesday. "We had a tour, we were all together and the people that left are no longer here. At the end of the day, that's where the splintering comes from."

 

Plain and simple

[wee stones]

Just now, idrive said:

 

for those not clicking on the link.

 

"If the fans are upset, then look at the guys that left," Scheffler said Tuesday. "We had a tour, we were all together and the people that left are no longer here. At the end of the day, that's where the splintering comes from."

 

Plain and simple

Quote the entire thing. Especially the money part.

[OBbogey5]

1 minute ago, idrive said:

 

for those not clicking on the link.

 

"If the fans are upset, then look at the guys that left," Scheffler said Tuesday. "We had a tour, we were all together and the people that left are no longer here. At the end of the day, that's where the splintering comes from."

 

Plain and simple

Scheffler was demanding. I loved it. 
 

If Scheffler was at the head of the PGAT negotiating team, they might stand a chance. But as is, the Saudis are absolutely toying with the PGAT. Unreal actually. If the guys negotiating for the Tour ever sat in the boardrooms and said out loud that they’re doing and what the results have been, I think they’d actually laugh about how awful and disastrous the Tour has handled this every single day of the week for the past four years. 

[bobfoster]

1 hour ago, wee stones said:

Can anybody show me the part where Scheffler turned down all his new money from the PGA’s ‘please don’t go to liv’ fund?

 

Or how about his choice to not take part in the new equity sharing arrangement from the private PGA entity?

 

Until that happens, these PGA guys can spare me their moral pablum.

These guys that have stuck with the PGAT, the largest and most substantial tour of the several hundred professional golf tours that have existed in the history of the game (over two dozen are active right now around the globe - and there have been many more in the past). Without it even the Golf Channel wouldn't exist. We all wouldn't be watching tournaments virtually every week of the year. It is an embarrassment of riches for golf fans, because of PGAT media contracts.

 

Even funnier? Those guys that took insane money to jump to LIV only get that insane money because they made their names on ... the PGAT. LIV, and the money behind it, tried to literally buy and dominate a global sport - it came cheap. Less than the cost of a few yachts. They have zero interest in the growth or health of the sport itself. LIV has contributed nothing to the game of golf - other than nastiness and turmoil. 

 

But what has happened? No one watches. Their viewership numbers are abysmal, and not getting much better over time. And the next generation of golfers? The kids in HS and college and on the KF and developmental tours? They don't dream of getting hand picked by nameless men in back rooms to get offered obscene money to become indentured servants, they still dream of the "ultimate goal" ... the PGA Tour Card. You don't get arbitrarily picked to get one, nor can you be arbitrarily kicked off of it based on the whims of oil money. You earn it based on standards, and you keep it if you can maintain that ultimate level of golf.

 

And if you think the guys supporting the PGAT are merely spouting "moral pablum", guess what, you can "spare yourself" by ignoring them if you find support of the PGAT distasteful, by the number one player in the world. Because they don't give a flying crap what you think. 

 

LIV is a frivolous exhibition tour. Will never be anything other than that. The PGAT is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, still the pinnacle of golf on the planet. 

 

 

[wee stones]

4 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

Because they don't give a flying crap what you think. 

 

 

Oh yes they do.
 

It’s the most important topic being discussed right now by SSG, PGAT Enterprises, and every other corporate entity deciding how to invest in a current product that can’t even get half the eyeballs watching a ‘signature event’ that kids with Go-Pros and a YouTube channel can generate week in and week out.

[bobfoster]

44 minutes ago, wee stones said:

Keep fighting the good fight. You don’t sound hypocritical at all. Promise.

Hope you keep fighting the good fight. I hear the latest LIV event many have actually higher ratings on the CW network than re-runs of the World's Funniest Animals! So there's that.

[bobfoster]

4 minutes ago, wee stones said:

Oh yes they do.
 

It’s the most important topic being discussed right now by SSG, PGAT Enterprises, and every other corporate entity deciding how to invest in a current product that can’t even get half the eyeballs watching a ‘signature event’ that kids with Go-Pros and a YouTube channel can generate week in and week out.

Would suggest you check those "numbers". They are actually quite public. You don't make a very good case when you are factually just wrong. 

Edited March 13 by bobfoster

[wee stones]

1 minute ago, bobfoster said:

Hope you keep fighting the good fight. I hear the latest LIV event many have actually higher ratings on the CW network than re-runs of the World's Funniest Animals! So there's that.

I don’t watch LIV. Never have, never will.

Got any more zingers?

[bobfoster]

Okay, I'm out again. Pop into this endless LIV thread now and then if I'm bored. But probably shouldn't. Actually haven't watched it since the first event (and was, like, WTH is this?")

 

It's a joke tour. But have to say its a bit fun to take a poke at those that think it is serious professional golf.

[wee stones]

10 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

Would suggest you check those "numbers". They are actually quite public. You don't make a very good case when you are factually just wrong. 

The 2024 Arnold Palmer invitational averaged 1.7M viewers. https://www.sportskeeda.com/golf/news-2024-arnold-palmer-invitational-final-round-ratings-dip-30-compared-previous-year-s-finish#
 

Good Good

Grant Horvat

Busta Jack

Bob Does Sports

Shiels

etc.

 

have all produced content that regularly dwarfs those numbers. 9 Million people watched the Good Good major in the UK. That’s on par with the Masters.

 

Like you said, the numbers are public. You should try reading them.

[bobfoster]

4 minutes ago, wee stones said:

The 2024 Arnold Palmer invitational averaged 1.7M viewers. https://www.sportskeeda.com/golf/news-2024-arnold-palmer-invitational-final-round-ratings-dip-30-compared-previous-year-s-finish#
 

Good Good

Grant Horvat

Busta Jack

Bob Does Sports

Shiels

etc.

 

have all produced content that regularly dwarfs those numbers. 9 Million people watched the Good Good major in the UK. That’s on par with the Masters.

 

Like you said, the numbers are public. You should try reading them.

Care to report the LIV numbers? And incidentally, YT numbers are not the same as Neilson's. I have clicked on a couple of Good Goods in the past. Watched for all of a couple minutes, then went back to Netflix. But I counted as one of those "{9 million". 

Edited March 13 by bobfoster

[wee stones]

8 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

Care to report the LIV numbers? And incidentally, YT numbers are not the same as Neilson's. I have clicked on a couple of Good Goods in the past. Watched for all of a couple minutes, then went back to Netflix. But I counted as one of those "{9 million". 

I don’t watch LIV. So I’m even less concerned about their numbers.

 

And no, your click did not count as a view if you only watched a few seconds. For someone that criticized others for not knowing facts, you’re pretty destitute on the truth.

 

The YouTube algorithm is pretty complex but there are content views and ad views. The ad views are what make money and also what defines the market power of a given channel. 
 

The fact of the matter is that the market powers of those YouTube channels are more powerful than almost every single PGA Tour event. Including ‘elevated’ events.

 

 

[notsohard]

40 minutes ago, wee stones said:

I don’t watch LIV. Never have, never will.

Got any more zingers?

Yes, PIF have a 16% stake in Aramco...just one of their little fun play with money. They just got a $20billion bonus.

Do people really think that PIF care if they gave Rory $900million next year? 😉

 

 

[ewaldbeukes]

On 3/8/2024 at 4:39 AM, Holy Moses said:

If I'm a LIV player, I'm not happy with Norman after giving up on OWGR points. Granted, LIV players have themselves to blame too after going to LIV when the prospect of not getting OWGR points was very possible, but I'm surprised that Norman just gave up without doing what the OWGR committee told them they needed to do to get points. 

There is more than enough material available for an objective review. LIV did have sufficient evidence to comply (or near enough that a change or two could pull it through), yet were still rejected. However the bigger issue at play is the new ranking system that is so skewed to the PGA Tour that no other tour can accumulate points. As an example, Looking at Niemann and Louis Oosthuizens performances these past few months on co-sanctioned Euro Tour Events, Australasian PGA and Asian Tour in the past having multiple victories would rocket you up the rankings. Now it does not, unless your an amateur playing on the PGA Tour. The sentiment is, nobody cares about the OWGR, they care about getting into the majors so the understanding is that Norman and Team are working with the majors for exemption categories for LIV. Makes more sense as even if OWGR rankings were achieved players could never quality under current rankings. Far from not caring, just putting the effort where the reward is. 

Edited March 13 by ewaldbeukes
.

[ewaldbeukes]

On 3/8/2024 at 5:34 PM, dcmidnight said:

 

Not one single player anywhere ever had an issue with OWGR before this. No complaints by Euro Tour guys, no complaints by guys on KFT or grinding it out on worldwide tours. It was all fine and good - until it wasnt. And guys knew it would be an issue, they were told *in advance* it would be an issue - then holy cow they are surprised it became an issue.

.

Edited March 13 by ewaldbeukes

[ewaldbeukes]

On 3/8/2024 at 6:37 PM, freeze16172002 said:

Who on LIV or any other tour not in majors that should be in?

Louis Oosthuizen for sure. Had a solid last 6 months coming back from injury. Some wins and Top3 finishes in Liv, Asian and Euro Tour events. Niemann has now received invites so that takes care of it. Number of talented youngsters but they could try and qualify and possibly will. Think Louis with the Masters is a hard hit as he plays so well there... would be up there this year on form. 

[ewaldbeukes]

On 3/8/2024 at 7:51 PM, ShowMe said:

If you want OWGR points, then play 72 holes not 54.  And give back all your prepaid money.  Until you do that, you are playing with an advantage that PGA Tour pros don't have.  In other words, even the playing field if you want the points.  

.

Edited March 13 by ewaldbeukes

[ewaldbeukes]

12 hours ago, bobfoster said:

These guys that have stuck with the PGAT, the largest and most substantial tour of the several hundred professional golf tours that have existed in the history of the game (over two dozen are active right now around the globe - and there have been many more in the past). Without it even the Golf Channel wouldn't exist. We all wouldn't be watching tournaments virtually every week of the year. It is an embarrassment of riches for golf fans, because of PGAT media contracts.

 

Even funnier? Those guys that took insane money to jump to LIV only get that insane money because they made their names on ... the PGAT. LIV, and the money behind it, tried to literally buy and dominate a global sport - it came cheap. Less than the cost of a few yachts. They have zero interest in the growth or health of the sport itself. LIV has contributed nothing to the game of golf - other than nastiness and turmoil. 

 

But what has happened? No one watches. Their viewership numbers are abysmal, and not getting much better over time. And the next generation of golfers? The kids in HS and college and on the KF and developmental tours? They don't dream of getting hand picked by nameless men in back rooms to get offered obscene money to become indentured servants, they still dream of the "ultimate goal" ... the PGA Tour Card. You don't get arbitrarily picked to get one, nor can you be arbitrarily kicked off of it based on the whims of oil money. You earn it based on standards, and you keep it if you can maintain that ultimate level of golf.

 

And if you think the guys supporting the PGAT are merely spouting "moral pablum", guess what, you can "spare yourself" by ignoring them if you find support of the PGAT distasteful, by the number one player in the world. Because they don't give a flying crap what you think. 

 

LIV is a frivolous exhibition tour. Will never be anything other than that. The PGAT is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, still the pinnacle of golf on the planet. 

 

 

.

Edited March 13 by ewaldbeukes

[ewaldbeukes]

14 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Posh….who needs to get paid for tv when no one is watching anyways?🤣

Very interesting insights on Smiley Kaufmanns latest Podcast (The Smiley show) about PGA Tour broadcasting and ratings. Might be worth a listen for those that want a balanced view. Smiley is pro PGA Tour and makes a living commentating on it. Nothing directly to do with LIV discussed in the segment

[bscinstnct]

Worldwide Google data on LIV Golf 

 

The 5 year chart shows that unfortunately, even witn Rahmbo and constantly signing bigger stars

 

we see lower and lower peaks of interest…up to now, of course

 

That huge spike is from back in 2022 when LIV first was announced. The next spike period was the 2023 season. 
 

The current spike is 2024. Remains to be seen if it will gain momentum as the season progresses…or just meanders and fades

 

 

[jdl]

3 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of players playing on the Euro, Challenge, Sunshine, Asian, Aus, KF etc tours where its almost impossible to get into the new PGA Tour closed shop where all the points are. Name a tour outside the PGA Tour, you just cant get on. What Tom Kim did a few years ago, cannot be done today. He would still be playing in Korea.  

Impossible to get to the PGA Tour? Just added 10 spots from DP Tour each season to go along with the 30 from Korn Ferry. And if you're good enough, you can go through the Monday qualifier route. Try that on LIV...nah doesn't exist.

 

Oh, and tell Nick Dunlap to go back to school since it was impossible for him to get his card...

Edited March 13 by jdl

[dcmidnight]

2 minutes ago, jdl said:

Impossible to get to the PGA Tour? Just added 10 spots from DP Tour each season to go along with the 30 from Korn Ferry. And if you're good enough, you can go through the Monday qualifier route. Try that on LIV...nah doesn't exist.

 

Literally anyone (good enough) can play in pre-Monday Qs to qualify for Mondays - anyone. 

 

To me this is the difference between an open Tour and an invitation only exhibition Tour.

Edited March 13 by dcmidnight

[bcjim]

Were some forgotten wrx accounts hacked here or something? Lot of axe grinders coming out of the woodwork...

Edited March 13 by bcjim

[Hawkeye77]

486 pages and at some point maybe the LIV trolls could just post by number - "Argument 1", "Argument 2", "Argument 3" - that should over it.  Same old stuff which continues to ignore why and how the "league" got started and its real goals (the true essence of which we can't discuss) and now with some history, the facts are out there ---- no real competition, no signifiant fan interest live or online, and on and on.  In relative terms in the world of golf, or sport in general, nobody really cares about LIV.

 

No doubt Rahm will try to get his game in shape for The Masters.  And then all the "look at so and so and how great he is in a major - LIV is affirmed" ---- haha, it just proves that they aren't motivated and most are dogging it in LIV events overall and yep, when they really try, one or two or three are good enough they can compete (or like Phil last year catch lighting in a bottle for an afternoon) against most of the real best players in the world. Hmmm, real competition brings out the best of (not in) some players . . . . . 

 

I'm a little surprised that Rahm's defection didn't affect me at all other than noting his hypocrisy.  He cashed in, good for him, but he's been a footnote for LIV during the AK carnival barking which just reveals more about what is already known about LIV.  He just didn't move the needle as a transcendent golfer as much as LIV/he probably thought he was/thinks he is.  

 

May pop in again in a month, lol, but it's a loop at this point.

[Ghost of Snead]

3 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of players playing on the Euro, Challenge, Sunshine, Asian, Aus, KF etc tours where its almost impossible to get into the new PGA Tour closed shop where all the points are. Name a tour outside the PGA Tour, you just cant get on. What Tom Kim did a few years ago, cannot be done today. He would still be playing in Korea.  

Just like the Masters, not everyone who enters the ticket lottery gets a ticket. 

 

Play better and the doors open. 

 

Hundreds of thousands ? 

[ewaldbeukes]

5 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

Just like the Masters, not everyone who enters the ticket lottery gets a ticket. 

 

Play better and the doors open. 

 

Hundreds of thousands ? 

.

Edited March 13 by ewaldbeukes
.

[SnowbirdTom]

9 hours ago, italianstallion said:

 

"They want to grow the game."

 

"They want to control their schedules."

 

"They want to play less."

 

"They're doing this for their families." 

 

"This is what the fans want."

 

"Who wouldn't take more money to do the same job."

 

"They should get OWGR points just like everyone else."

 

"The PGA TOUR needs to merge with LIV for the good of the game."

 

"OWGR is no longer relevant. There has to be a new system of ranking the best golfers."

 

"PGA TOUR purses are up because of LIV, and I don't see anyone turning down that cash, so what's the difference between these guys and someone that went to LIV?"

 

You got the "moral pablum" part right, you just mixed up where it's been coming from.

 

 

Feels a whole lot like ->

 

Edited March 13 by SnowbirdTom

[MaineMariner]

LIV's biggest problem is that we're in their third season and still nobody is talking about the golf being played on their tour. There's plenty of talk about the rivalry with the PGA Tour, the money, the next player to jump over from the PGAT, the various controversies... but the golf is very rarely an actual topic of discussion or interest. That's doubly or triply true of the team performance - I don't see any buy in from fans on that front whatsoever.

 

Anyone who has followed a new sports league or new franchise knows that this is a tough battle to fight, but at least most leagues and teams have captive audiences in the form of the people living where the teams are located.

[idrive]

Now it's Tennis.

 

Who's next?

 

I'd like to thank all those who are supporting the takeover of Professional sports.

 

The worst part?  It's the fans who have become divided that were once on the same page.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/tennis/saudi-arabia-launch-tennis-takeover-with-2bn-take-it-or-leave-it-offer/ar-BB1jLgSw?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=d1c8cb8985ca4390ad07e93acd2417e2&ei=35

 

 

[dcmidnight]

I will say the one amazing constant is that ever since the LIV guys left the PGAT - the LIV apologists suddenly want it to be easier for players to get onto the PGAT - while being perfectly happy that they play on an invitation only private tour. 

 

To reiterate for the folks in the back - any player thats good enough, anywhere, can get into most PGAT events. There are Monday Qs and pre Monday Qs. Show up and play. But if you're just kind of good or above average, not sorry, but take it elsewhere.