Are you aware of the club shallowing?

[dgarland]

For those of you that shallow the club significantly on the downswing are you aware of it and do it consciously or is it just something that happens?  If you are shallowing intentionally do you shallow it to a different degree depending on the club?  I assume you wouldn't be able to shallow a wedge as you would a driver.  Just something I've been messing around with.  

[dvq9654]

I'm not going to say I shallow significantly, but I would struggle to say I'm aware of anything on my downswing as it relates to my arms or wrists. I try to make a good backswing and then make good contact. That's about all my simple mind is capable of. 

[hammersia]

I find it best to feel the club coming "on plane" at the top of the backswing / start of the downswing, which is all that matters, rather than specifically shallowing, which you won't know if you're doing it enough or too much. 

[againstthegrain]

A few years ago my coach had me flatten the swing plane at the top of the backswing by moving my hands in a manner I am not able to articulate in words.  It was a very conscious effort during lessons and practice as well as my key swing thought w D and 3w.  It seems to have worked and I think I do it automatically now producing a baby draw or fade.  I don't have any more wild slices and imperfections(blocks or pulls) in ball flight are due to poor sequencing.  Under my coaches supervision we had my wedges bent a couple degrees flatter so that I would learn how to flatten my swing subconsciously at the short end of the bag.

 

 

[Chazb]

When shallowing is new you have to think about it and hit enough balls and just swing before it becomes ingrained.After a lot of repetitions you don’t have to think about it no more and it just happens.

 

[MonteScheinblum]

The answer to every one of these discussions is the same for every movement in the swing.

 

If you learned to do it when you were developing, it just happens.  If you don’t, it must be a conscious choice for an indefinite period until it just happens.

[Zitlow]

Swing a wedge to the top with your right/trail hand. Without changing the orientation of your right hand and arm shift your weight to your left foot. You have now shallowed the shaft.

 

 

[hammersia]

22 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

Swing a wedge to the top with your right/trail hand. Without changing the orientation of your right hand and arm shift your weight to your left foot. You have now shallowed the shaft.

 

 

Come again?

[Zitlow]

41 minutes ago, hammersia said:

Come again?

 

Try it. Swing a wedge to the top with your right/trail hand. Without changing the orientation of your right hand and arm shift your weight to your left foot. You have now shallowed the shaft. 

 

As he shifts from his right foot to his left foot the plane shallows. 

 

[smashdn]

I have to do it consciously.  As Monte said, I didn't learn it that way from the outset and had to kill a bad habit.

 

I do not do it by degrees with different clubs.  I do not try to do it with driver as with that club it happens for me for some reason and with irons I have to "force" it, though it doesn't feel forced if that makes any sense. 

[hammersia]

5 hours ago, Zitlow said:

 

Try it. Swing a wedge to the top with your right/trail hand. Without changing the orientation of your right hand and arm shift your weight to your left foot. You have now shallowed the shaft. 

 

As he shifts from his right foot to his left foot the plane shallows. 

 

 

[DLiver]

8 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The answer to every one of these discussions is the same for every movement in the swing.

 

If you learned to do it when you were developing, it just happens.  If you don’t, it must be a conscious choice for an indefinite period until it just happens.

This is sooooooo true.

[Saijin]

I believe that shallowing is a result of an intent when striking a ball.

And second how I set my club at the top of the backswing and my personality.

 

I actually saw a lot of youtube videos this week about dropping to the slot, shallowing and I was so curious and I tried all those drills.... I couldn't hit a single ball LOL.

aim butt to the wall at the top, drop arms vertically and rotate aggressively, use only left or right arm to swing etc etc , it was torture .

 

So for me it has to be my natural movements and intent that results in the shallowing.

 

 

 

 

[Saijin]

@MonteScheinblum

would you mind giving me your thoughts on what I said above? 
 

I could learn something from you. 
 

thanks. 

[Barfolomew]

Actually recently been consciously allowing myself to shallow even more with good results..... feels so natural to stand close and get shallow

 

Funny you mention wedge.  Sometimes I'll get a little yanky with the L and GW.  So last night at range I allowed myself to play them real shallow as it felt great.  Toes were up at address but still coming out straight and cuts and draws were a small adjustment..... so shallow just a natural thing for some players 🐈

[MonteScheinblum]

56 minutes ago, Saijin said:

@MonteScheinblum

would you mind giving me your thoughts on what I said above? 
 

I could learn something from you. 
 

thanks. 

Drop it in the slot almost always turns into early dropping of trail shoulder and that’s something you put in a bag, light on fire and throw on Peter Kostis’ porch and ring the door bell.

[ThePaineTrain]

Any time I ever actively think of "shallowing the club" I'm guaranteed to shank it. Topping it, chunking it fat, hosel rockets, and more are at play the minute this wretched thought enters my brain.

[Krt22]

11 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Drop it in the slot almost always turns into early dropping of trail shoulder and that’s something you put in a bag, light on fire and throw on Peter Kostis’ porch and ring the door bell.

I feel attacked

[Saijin]

21 minutes ago, ThePaineTrain said:

Any time I ever actively think of "shallowing the club" I'm guaranteed to shank it. Topping it, chunking it fat, hosel rockets, and more are at play the minute this wretched thought enters my brain.

Hahahaha exactly what happened to me when I was trying out some of these YouTube vids. 
 

hosel rocket… gonna steal that one. 

[MonteScheinblum]

46 minutes ago, ThePaineTrain said:

Any time I ever actively think of "shallowing the club" I'm guaranteed to shank it. Topping it, chunking it fat, hosel rockets, and more are at play the minute this wretched thought enters my brain.

See my comment 

[MonteScheinblum]

If you try and shallow and chunk or shank it, you’re doing it wrong.  That’s early right tilt.

 

If you shallow correctly you’ll never chunk it or top it and you’ll hit it in the toe versus a shank.

[Saijin]

If it's a drill type, forced movement it doesn't work for me.

 

It has to be natural and I don't even think about it... it has to be a result from an intent / movement. But that's just me tho

Edited August 17, 2022 by Saijin

[Kuuuch]

13 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

If you try and shallow and chunk or shank it, you’re doing it wrong.  That’s early right tilt.

 

If you shallow correctly you’ll never chunk it or top it and you’ll hit it in the toe versus a shank.

100%. 
 

OP, I don’t consciously think about it but I do work on it almost every range session as a maintenance drill because right tilt to shallow is how I learned to swing to hit a draw. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/ChP0ifMFIKT/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 

Montes video above is exactly what my 2 maintenance drills are for. 1 is hitting balls off a downhill slope for left tilt and the other is some left arm only swings to add wrist flexion in transition. I have been doing this “drills” for going on 4 years straight. 

[ThePaineTrain]

1 hour ago, Kuuuch said:

100%. 
 

OP, I don’t consciously think about it but I do work on it almost every range session as a maintenance drill because right tilt to shallow is how I learned to swing to hit a draw. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/ChP0ifMFIKT/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 

Montes video above is exactly what my 2 maintenance drills are for. 1 is hitting balls off a downhill slope for left tilt and the other is some left arm only swings to add wrist flexion in transition. I have been doing this “drills” for going on 4 years straight. 

 

This is the drill that gets me to actually "shallow". When my mind is set on the goals of "back to the target longer" and "cast wrists", the result is shallowing. When I'm thinking "do X to shallow the club", it's shank time.

[MoneyMan300]

On 8/17/2022 at 8:47 AM, ThePaineTrain said:

 

This is the drill that gets me to actually "shallow". When my mind is set on the goals of "back to the target longer" and "cast wrists", the result is shallowing. When I'm thinking "do X to shallow the club", it's shank time.

For me shallowing just happens as a part of good sequencing....now.    The thought of back to the target longer can be good for someone who opens their shoulder too early.  It allows time to get to the front side and sync up the arms.  I spent a long time trying to "shallow" the club without proper understanding of pressure shift and sequencing.  What I ended up with, and still fight, is early left side bend (left handed).

[Kuuuch]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:41 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

If you try and shallow and chunk or shank it, you’re doing it wrong.  That’s early right tilt.

 

If you shallow correctly you’ll never chunk it or top it and you’ll hit it in the toe versus a shank.

Question for you Monte, why is it a toe shot is the miss when shallowing correctly? I’ve experienced this myself but not sure of the technical reason why. Is it because shallowing allows you to turn better so your hands end up moving more left as opposed to throwing out exposing the heel?

[dap]

I find that shallowing happens naturally as a result playing with a shut club face. You will instinctively shallow because if you come OTT with a shut face you will pull the ball 80 yards left. The opposite is true if you play with an open face and then the tendency is to come down steep. The reason being if you shallow with an open face you will block the ball 80 yards right and you know that you can’t play like that so you swing steep and out to in. You will hit a pull slice but at least that’s playable compared to an 80 yard block. 

 

Brian Manzella has a fix for slicing and he calls it the twist away. You twist the club anti clockwise on the backswing, effectively keeping the face looking at the ball and shut. On the downswing you will instinctively shallow to prevent pulling hooking the ball. Some players need to play with a shut face and in my opinion that applies to most amateurs. If you find it difficult to shallow, try the twistaway and get the lead wrist flat or slightly bowed. You will force your swing to shallow to keep the ball in play. You fix the face first and likely you’ll fix your plane without even trying.

 

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

12 hours ago, Kuuuch said:

Question for you Monte, why is it a toe shot is the miss when shallowing correctly? I’ve experienced this myself but not sure of the technical reason why. Is it because shallowing allows you to turn better so your hands end up moving more left as opposed to throwing out exposing the heel?

Same reason steepening causes a shank.  Club out early a shank, club out late a toe.  

[Saijin]

10 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Same reason steepening causes a shank.  Club out early a shank, club out late a toe.  

what do you mean by "club out" ?

[MonteScheinblum]

2 minutes ago, Saijin said:

what do you mean by "club out" ?

From the top of the swing, down the line view, the club goes out to the ball early.