Protecting the Field?

[Schulzmc]

Member/Member tournament this weekend. (Two man teams, six team flights, five nine hole best ball matches in your flight) The weather was perfect on Saturday, and forecast for Sunday was nasty - cold, 100% chance of soaking rain, etc. Schedule called for three matches on Saturday with final two matches on Sunday, followed by a horse race for flight winners.

 

A number of participants wanted to play a fourth match on Saturday to give the best chance of fitting the final match in on Sunday. A handful of participants did not want to and/or were unable to stay to play. So we all sat around for two hours in beautiful weather waiting for the evening cocktail party to begin. 

 

Finally to my question - a number of teams proposed playing their fourth match Saturday if both teams were willing and able. Our pro said we could not, since all teams were not able, and if some played in nice weather while others had to play in the rain the next morning it would be unfair. We had to all wait to “protect the field.” But since these are independent matches, I argued there is no field to protect. If one set of teams played their match in great weather, and the other in the rain, the matches would still be fairly contested and have no effect on the other matches or teams.

 

What say you all?

 

P.S. - It ended up a moot point… as all matches were canceled today due to the course being unplayable from all the rain. And they have decided for future weekend events like this to let all participants know in advance that the schedule is subject to change and all participants should be prepared to play all day both days.

[landolakes]

I agree with your pro

[antip]

I agree with you, there is no "field" to protect, the pro's argument makes no sense.

 

This is not a rules issue, although the terms of the competition might (or might not) say something about this issue.

[Augster]

I agree with you 100%. If both teams agree to play on Saturday, and both teams are willing to accept the results from that match, they should have r played. 
 

The only “protection” for the other competitors is that the teams would only have to play 9 holes on Sunday so they may be “fresher”. Which is BS if some teams are taking carts and some teams are walking. 
 

If there are no carts allowed, then absolutely both teams should have to play on Sunday. But if any carts are allowed, there isn’t much of a gain. 
 

So I agree with the OP, unless this is a walking only tournament. 

[Mr. Bean]

4 hours ago, Augster said:

The only “protection” for the other competitors is that the teams would only have to play 9 holes on Sunday so they may be “fresher”.

 

And drier.... Playing one 9-hole match in the rain is way easier than playing two matches.

 

Ultimately this is for the Committee to decide but if I were the Committee I would not change the schedule in the name of equality.

[Colin L]

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

And drier.... Playing one 9-hole match in the rain is way easier than playing two matches.

 

Ultimately this is for the Committee to decide but if I were the Committee I would not change the schedule in the name of equality.

I think that, like the pro, you are thinking in terms of a stroke play event rather than match play.     The outcome of this team event depends on the results of a number of  matches.   It doesn't matter the times, days, conditions or even courses different matches are played on; everything is equal for the two sides involved in any given match. All that goes into the team event is the results of a number of matches   A win in a match played out in wind and rain has no greater or lesser value than a win in match played out in sunny, benign conditions.  There is no relationship between the two matches, no equality issue. 

 

The one rules issue I see as a possibility is that if the "schedule" means that the start times of matches are fixed and published, changes need to be sanctioned by the Committee to avoid players running foul of Rule 5.3a. That could be written in to the Terms of the Competition.  

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Colin L

[Mr. Bean]

2 minutes ago, Colin L said:

I think that, like the pro, you are thinking in terms of a stroke play event rather than match play.     The outcome of this team event depends on the results of a number of  singles  matches.   It doesn't matter the times, days, conditions or even courses different matches are played on; everything is equal for the two players involved in any given match. All that goes into the team event is the results of a number of matches   A win in a match played out in wind and rain has no greater or lesser value than a win in match played out in sunny, benign conditions.  There is no relationship between the two matches, no equality issue. 

 

The one rules issue I see as a possibility is that if the "schedule" means that the start times of matches are fixed and published, changes need to be sanctioned by the Committee to avoid players running foul of Rule 5.3a. That could be written in to the Terms of the Competition.  

 

 

 

I was thinking that if team A is playing two matches on Sunday while team B is playing only one (against team A their latter match when they are already soaked) then there is this equality issue. If all players and teams play same amount of matches on Sunday then it does not matter.

[rogolf]

I suspect that the Committee had set out the dates and times of the matches and other proceedings to suit the needs of the club, course and participants.  The pro was the spokesperson for the Committee.

As is noted in a post above, it is not for the competitors to decide when they play their matches.

[Colin L]

Mr Bean, are you envisaging such a tight  schedule that there wouldn't be time to change into dry clothes between matches? 😉

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Colin L

[Newby]

There would seem to be that there is no rules issue as they are all matches. However, if the committee says the matches must be played to a set schedule, for whatever reason, that is what must be done. In this case it depends on whether or not the pro had the authority of the committee.

[Halebopp]

I agree with the pro and Bean, the committee should stick to the schedule. Sides playing their matches beforehand on Saturday could gain an advantage over those who aren't able to do so, making things unfair for the last match and the Royal Ascot.

 

 

[Llortamaisey]

Was it true match play? Or did teams get points based the holes they won in their match? 

[Seamus_McDuff]

2 hours ago, Llortamaisey said:

Was it true match play? Or did teams get points based the holes they won in their match? 

What I was going to ask. Usually in these type of events all nine holes are played regardless of how the match stands because all the points must be decided. 

[Schulzmc]

2 hours ago, Llortamaisey said:

Was it true match play? Or did teams get points based the holes they won in their match? 

There was one point per hole, nine total possible points per match.

 

And to clarify - the committee did indeed decide to stick to the schedule, so we of course honored that decision. I was more concerned that, in talking with the other members of the committee, they were swayed by the pro’s “we have to protect the field” argument. 

 

Interestingly, we have a season-long two man tournament where the matches are scheduled whenever the competitors agree to play. No field to protect in that, I guess. Although it is true match play with one team winner and no points awarded for the matches.

[Dpavs]

Protecting the field in a different way?

 

[Isaac_Newton]

I wouldn't allow it. If the last place team is more than 9 points behind after their fourth match on Saturday they really don't have much motivation show up and play in the rain on Sunday. No shows destroy an entire flight. 

 

Secondly, we have per day flight winners in the side betting. I wouldn't be happy if the day two flight winners played a match on Saturday and only played one on Sunday. 

[rogolf]

That's exactly why it is important for the Committee to produce and publish the schedule of events and stick to that schedule.  Participants just need to adhere to that schedule.

[StudentGolfer4]

I disagree with the term protecting the field but think the pro made the correct call that allowing teams to determine their own schedule could lead to a competitive advantage over others. 
 

If an entire flight decided to play all 5 matches the first day the winner advancing to the shootout would have extra time to rest, prepare, and in this case stay dry. I wouldn’t be thrilled if my future horse race opponent had the opportunity to eat lunch in the pub while I slogged out 2 matches in the rain for 5 hours on Sunday. 
 

It all depends on the schedule but most member guest events under this format have limited time between matches. A lot of times you simply grab a new scorecard and go to the next tee. It’s definitely not a given that you are granted time to change, eat, dry off, etc. This is especially true for events with A and B groups.