Rules question

[Moonlightgrm]

I should know the answer to this question, but I’m not sure. I am 2-feet off of the front of the putting green, in the fairway, with a sprinkler head directly in my line. The head is 6-inches off of the front of the green. I am not standing on the sprinkler head and it does not obstruct my club path. However, if I wish to putt the ball, which I do, it will roll directly over the head. I am playing a match with my good friend who is willing to give me relief, but I wasn’t sure that I was entitled to it, so I chipped the ball instead of putting it. We asked our club pro his thoughts and he chuckled and said, “move the ball”. Our assistant pro overheard our conversation and said, “no relief”. I apologize for being too lazy to look it up, but what’s the verdict? 

[Klubster]

A sprinkler head is an immovable obstruction and is covered by Rule 24-2. That Rule states that you are entitled to relief for a ball that lies in or on the obstruction or when the obstruction interferes with your area of intended stance or swing.

 

You are penalized by loss of hole for even considering  relief 🙂.

[sui generis]

8 minutes ago, Klubster said:

Rule 24-2.

 

You're in the pre-2019 Rules, but that is immaterial.

 

OP should asking if the Model Local Rule F5 is in effect.

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=8&subrulenum=6

[Augster]

For now, unless the listed MLR is in effect, no relief. 
 

1/1/23, if my hunch is correct and they integrate the MLR into the ROG, free relief next year. 
 

 

[nsxguy]

19 hours ago, Klubster said:

A sprinkler head is an immovable obstruction and is covered by Rule 24-2. That Rule states that you are entitled to relief for a ball that lies in or on the obstruction or when the obstruction interferes with your area of intended stance or swing.

 

Forgetting for the moment the old rule book reference, whether or not worded the same (I was too lazy to look), the part you bolded is STILL true.

 

Problem is that wasn't the question posed. The OP was talking about the sprinkler head being on his line of play.

 

His ball wasn't "IN or ON" the sprinkler head, nor did it interfere with his stance or swing.

[davep043]

16 hours ago, Augster said:

For now, unless the listed MLR is in effect, no relief. 
 

1/1/23, if my hunch is correct and they integrate the MLR into the ROG, free relief next year. 

Because I am taking a USGA Rules Workshop in December, I've been issued a copy of the new Rules, but have been asked not to discuss it before they're released to the general public in a week or two.  Remind me, and I'll be happy to come back and update you on this particular issue.

[sui generis]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

Because I am taking a USGA Rules Workshop in December, I've been issued a copy of the new Rules, but have been asked not to discuss it before they're released to the general public in a week or two.  Remind me, and I'll be happy to come back and update you on this particular issue.

 

Some years ago I was reffing a D1 invitational when a coach came up to me and asked if we were doing "two and two"? I had no idea what "two and two" stood for, but we shortly figured it out as MLR F5. 😀

[TerpFangolfer]

3 hours ago, davep043 said:

Because I am taking a USGA Rules Workshop in December, I've been issued a copy of the new Rules, but have been asked not to discuss it before they're released to the general public in a week or two.  Remind me, and I'll be happy to come back and update you on this particular issue.

nice, I am signed up in Jan...so guess I will get one soon 😀

[Wendy123]

21 hours ago, Augster said:

For now, unless the listed MLR is in effect, no relief. 
 

1/1/23, if my hunch is correct and they integrate the MLR into the ROG, free relief next year. 
 

 

I just returned from Rules workshop. This hasn't been added.

[antip]

1 hour ago, Wendy123 said:

I just returned from Rules workshop. This hasn't been added.

This doesn't surprise me. The rules  default is there is no line of play relief off the putting green and I can see no good reason to change that. The Committee has a discretion to change that in a limited way through the MLR but there is no requirement to do so. 

[Augster]

4 hours ago, antip said:

This doesn't surprise me. The rules  default is there is no line of play relief off the putting green and I can see no good reason to change that. The Committee has a discretion to change that in a limited way through the MLR but there is no requirement to do so. 

I don’t know why they wouldn’t change it. The various tours play with that MLR in effect always, so the average player sees it on TV and assumes it’s in the ROG and not MLR. 
 

I was really hoping they’d change it for next year so I wouldn’t have to adopt the MLR, and learn where to find it, and then educate everyone in my club on the use of the Rule. 
 

Now that I’ve written it again, and thought about all the dunderheads I’d have to educate and inform, we probably won’t use the MLR. It’s easier to tell people, on a case by case basis, “No you don’t get relief for that” than to educate 100+ members on when/where/how and how to look it up. 
 

An opportunity missed IMO. 

[slocagolfer]

On 10/24/2022 at 7:28 AM, sui generis said:

 

Some years ago I was reffing a D1 invitational when a coach came up to me and asked if we were doing "two and two"? I had no idea what "two and two" stood for, but we shortly figured it out as MLR F5. 😀

Shouldn't that information (if any local rules are in force) be written and distributed?

[sui generis]

17 minutes ago, slocagolfer said:

Shouldn't that information (if any local rules are in force) be written and distributed?

 

Oh, sure, and it always is. F-5, Immovable Obstructions Close to Putting Greens, is ubiquitous. I've never refereed anywhere that it wasn't used. I was merely caught off guard by the coach's calling it "two and two". 

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=8&subrulenum=6

[Newby]

16 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

Oh, sure, and it always is. F-5, Immovable Obstructions Close to Putting Greens, is ubiquitous. I've never refereed anywhere that it wasn't used.

Much rarer here except on links type course where putting from off the green is the norm. Most parkland courses have lush fringes where chipping is more common.

Neither is exclusive though.

[Krt22]

3 hours ago, Newby said:

Much rarer here except on links type course where putting from off the green is the norm. Most parkland courses have lush fringes where chipping is more common.

Neither is exclusive though.

Very common on any course with Bermuda fairways.

[Mr. Bean]

On 10/25/2022 at 2:59 AM, Augster said:

I don’t know why they wouldn’t change it.

 

I'll make a guess.

 

As it is today the MLR gives relief regardless of the lie of the ball. However, the Committee in charge may adopt the version in which the ball must lie on a grass cut to fairway height or less. We have that version on our Hard Card. Making this MLR a Rule would render that option invalid and would IMO limit the possibilities of a Committee to decide.

[Mr. Bean]

On 10/25/2022 at 2:59 AM, Augster said:

Now that I’ve written it again, and thought about all the dunderheads I’d have to educate and inform, we probably won’t use the MLR. It’s easier to tell people, on a case by case basis, “No you don’t get relief for that” than to educate 100+ members on when/where/how and how to look it up. 

 

We have Local Rules on the notice board. In competitions LRs are distributed to each competitor on paper. I cannot see any problem in that.

 

If a player does not bother to check the notice board or read the paper handed to them it is their problem.

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Mr. Bean

[sui generis]

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

LRs are distributed to each competitor on paper.

 

We jokingly refer to those as DNR, "Did Not Read".

 

The usual format here is on the reverse side of the hole location sheet which each player, immediately on receipt, carefully folds to fit their pocket scorecard holder. The info never sees the light of day. 😉

[rogolf]

2 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

We jokingly refer to those as DNR, "Did Not Read".

 

The usual format here is on the reverse side of the hole location sheet which each player, immediately on receipt, carefully folds to fit their pocket scorecard holder. The info never sees the light of day. 😉

I used DNR (Did not read) jokingly when presenting to a group at our club.  A doctor spoke up and said that DNR means something entirely different to him!

[North Butte]

8 minutes ago, rogolf said:

I used DNR (Did not read) jokingly when presenting to a group at our club.  A doctor spoke up and said that DNR means something entirely different to him!

There's a couple guys in my usual group that I'm not 100% positive would get resuscitated if they keeled over halfway through the back nine.🤐

 

I'm joking, of course. Totally. Yeah, for sure. 

[Mr. Bean]

3 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

We jokingly refer to those as DNR, "Did Not Read".

 

The usual format here is on the reverse side of the hole location sheet which each player, immediately on receipt, carefully folds to fit their pocket scorecard holder. The info never sees the light of day. 😉

 

Well, it is their shame if they do not want to benefit from knowing the Rules.

 

A very dear friend of mine organized a club competition long ago and drafted the CoC and LRs. As the last item of the CoC he had written "Regardless what is the score for the player on the 18th hole they may mark a birdie on that hole".

 

There was only one birdie on that 18th hole in the entire competition of 100+ players...