Trail hip firing early and toward ball

[Zitlow]

It isn't a mechanical problem it's a conceptual problem and all the band aids in the world won't fix it. 

 

if your concept of how to sequence the pivot, hands and club in balance is off then everything else will be off. 

 

 

 

 

[Tanner25]

Paul Wilson seems to disagree. He says to fire the right hip in the downswing.

 

 

[Golfbeat]

19 minutes ago, Tanner25 said:

Paul Wilson seems to disagree. He says to fire the right hip in the downswing.

 

 

 

 

But that is the Paul Wilson Swing which only works for Paul Wilson.

[Lefty_3Jack]

On 4/18/2023 at 9:23 AM, iacas said:

 

Feels ain't real, as you would almost surely agree. So I don't know why you'd get flamed: you likely DO turn your hips, your feel is just that they don't.

Correct, they're turning, just in better sequence. 

[slytown]

On 4/18/2023 at 8:34 PM, Tanner25 said:

Paul Wilson seems to disagree. He says to fire the right hip in the downswing.

 

 

 

I think most people already fire the hips. Only person I would recommend do that is someone who gets too deep with the hips amd shallow with the club. 90% of golfers would benefit from learning how to move the club on a good path with arms and learning the sequence/rhythm. Fire the hips causes all sorts if problems, unless ur JT.

[Valtiel]

On 4/18/2023 at 5:34 PM, Tanner25 said:

Paul Wilson seems to disagree. He says to fire the right hip in the downswing.

 

 

Is that recommendation from a different video? In this one he only mentions "firing the hips", nothing anything specific to right or left. 

[Wolfhammer]

 

This thread and video have been really helpful for me. Instead of trying to prevent the right hip from firing out, I've been trying to push the left hip back. Like most things in golf, this is not intuitive but works very well.

[Valtiel]

A little supplemental to this as well after watching Lucas Herbert's winning highlights today. @Luckydutch and @Bogey2Better this is directly relevant to the concepts that have been discussed in your threads so i'm putting it here instead of spamming it in multiple places.

Now if we can agree to stare at some men's butts for a minute, this will be a helpful visual 😆



The rear angle IMO is almost better for discussing these concepts because we're less distracted by many other aesthetic swing elements. Here we see the initial shift in the backswing with pressure maxing out at P2 (club parallel to the ground). MOST people either get stuck here OR they take a lot longer to get here, which also leads to getting stuck, because it is everything that happens after this that is crucial to this concept.



This is really the key move here. It varies a little from player to player, but a version of this shift from P2 to P3 where not only does the shift into the trail leg completely stop, it's actually reversing already. We're barely halfway into the backswing and already a move is being made back towards the lead leg. Notice the right hip in relation to the red line and how much the right back pocket shifts towards the target, meanwhile the left leg is flexing slightly and bracing, ready for the leverage and power it's going to provide in transition.



Now from P3 to P4 (top of the backswing) we see the conclusion of this "re-centering" move with the hips squarely back in the box they started. This is a lot of movement that a vast majority of amateurs don't do correctly and i'd hazard basically NO high handicapper does at all. Most are starting their downswings with full/majority pressure still on their back leg or they never got there to begin with.



From here this momentum back towards the front side gets utilized to drive hard with the hips AHEAD of where they were at address early in the downswing.

Now Herbert is a little more extreme than some in this regard, a bit reminiscent of late 90's Tiger with an even more aggressive move forwards.



But the blueprint is there, even in his later years when be became a bit more centered:



We see the same pattern here with Rory albeit with a little more sink into that front leg:



And for anyone that believes this is a younger man's fitness thing, you better believe the legend that is Fat Perez does it even more:

[Bogey2Better]

4 hours ago, Valtiel said:

A little supplemental to this as well after watching Lucas Herbert's winning highlights today. @Luckydutch and @Bogey2Better this is directly relevant to the concepts that have been discussed in your threads so i'm putting it here instead of spamming it in multiple places.

Now if we can agree to stare at some men's butts for a minute, this will be a helpful visual 😆



The rear angle IMO is almost better for discussing these concepts because we're less distracted by many other aesthetic swing elements. Here we see the initial shift in the backswing with pressure maxing out at P2 (club parallel to the ground). MOST people either get stuck here OR they take a lot longer to get here, which also leads to getting stuck, because it is everything that happens after this that is crucial to this concept.



This is really the key move here. It varies a little from player to player, but a version of this shift from P2 to P3 where not only does the shift into the trail leg completely stop, it's actually reversing already. We're barely halfway into the backswing and already a move is being made back towards the lead leg. Notice the right hip in relation to the red line and how much the right back pocket shifts towards the target, meanwhile the left leg is flexing slightly and bracing, ready for the leverage and power it's going to provide in transition.



Now from P3 to P4 (top of the backswing) we see the conclusion of this "re-centering" move with the hips squarely back in the box they started. This is a lot of movement that a vast majority of amateurs don't do correctly and i'd hazard basically NO high handicapper does at all. Most are starting their downswings with full/majority pressure still on their back leg or they never got there to begin with.



From here this momentum back towards the front side gets utilized to drive hard with the hips AHEAD of where they were at address early in the downswing.

Now Herbert is a little more extreme than some in this regard, a bit reminiscent of late 90's Tiger with an even more aggressive move forwards.



But the blueprint is there, even in his later years when be became a bit more centered:



We see the same pattern here with Rory albeit with a little more sink into that front leg:



And for anyone that believes this is a younger man's fitness thing, you better believe the legend that is Fat Perez does it even more:

Thanks @Valtiel. This helps show what I had seen in other videos. Seeing the slight move off the ball at the start of the backswing is reassuring. Between my instructor wanting to see a gap when looking at the trail hip from setup to top of backswing I was trying to eliminate any movement off the ball. That and Monte saying that sway was biggest issue in my thread. If I’m trying to marry the ideas together I’ll have a little movement to the right to start but by re-centering I’ll have the slight gap between setup hip and top of backswing. (I’ll save this thread)
 

Any thoughts on either of the swings in my thread that have a little more movement and if you think I’m swaying? I had added one more last night from a range session where I tried to bring some movement back. When I look at reference points in my backswing I’m unsure if that is too much movement. (I’m also assuming Monte meant backswing when he said sway as downswing is usually “slide”.)

 

What app or tool to you use to analyze swings and draw lines and dots like you did in the first comment on my thread?

[iacas]

19 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Now if we can agree to stare at some men's butts for a minute, this will be a helpful visual 😆

 

Post these in the topic where the guy is arguing that nobody shifts their mass to the trail side during the golf swing, please.

[golfer07840]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Post these in the topic where the guy is arguing that nobody shifts their mass to the trail side during the golf swing, please.

 

Haha 😎

[GoGoErky]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Post these in the topic where the guy is arguing that nobody shifts their mass to the trail side during the golf swing, please.

You could click the 3 dots and then share and post the link in that thread 😃

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

You could click the 3 dots and then share and post the link in that thread 😃

I know. That discussion is weird though, so I’m kinda tapping out of it.

[RoyalTroon]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

Post these in the topic where the guy is arguing that nobody shifts their mass to the trail side during the golf swing, please.

 

40 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

You could click the 3 dots and then share and post the link in that thread 😃

 

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

I know. That discussion is weird though, so I’m kinda tapping out of it.

 

...and tapping directly into it at the same time using indirect means by asking others to do your bidding...WOW!   Chameleon, meet your own skin. 

[GoGoErky]

2 hours ago, BALLYBUNION said:

 

 

 

...and tapping directly into it at the same time using indirect means by asking others to do your bidding...WOW!   Chameleon, meet your own skin. 

I don’t even know what thread it or but I was just offering a suggestion 

[olemiss5931]

   

 

So I’ve had a big problem with right hip firing way too early and arms lagging behind so I took interest in this thread. Took a Monte lesson and made what I feel like are big changes. One big issue I had was a narrow stance that was hindering the weight shift. Widened my stance and really felt my weight go to inside of trail foot to start backswing and then to lead heel in backswing for transition

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by olemiss5931

[Bogey2Better]

On 4/27/2023 at 9:43 PM, olemiss5931 said:

   

 

So I’ve had a big problem with right hip firing way too early and arms lagging behind so I took interest in this thread. Took a Monte lesson and made what I feel like are big changes. One big issue I had was a narrow stance that was hindering the weight shift. Widened my stance and really felt my weight go to inside of trail foot to start backswing and then to lead heel in backswing for transition

 

Glad you are moving in the right direction. I’ll be submitting videos to Monte tomorrow after I hit the range. 

[Wolfhammer]

I can keep my trail hip in check if I swing at (what I feel is) 60%. Wondering if I should just continue to do this and hopefully it will ingrain a new motor pattern. And eventually I can start to swing harder and my trail hip won’t fire out. If I swing with any speed, trail hip fires, I get steep, and I hit thin shots out of the toe. It’s really really frustrating. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Wolfhammer

[GoGoErky]

20 minutes ago, Wolfhammer said:

You can keep my trail hip in check if I swing at (what I feel is) 60%. Wondering if I should just continue to do this and hopefully it will ingrain a new motor pattern. And eventually I can start to swing harder and my trail hip won’t fire out. If I swing with any speed, trail hip fires, I get steep, and I hit thin shots out of the toe. It’s really really frustrating. 

Yes. But also look at where you are in the takeaway and backswing at full speed to make sure it’s not something else first

[moptop]

On 4/26/2023 at 2:59 AM, Valtiel said:

A little supplemental to this as well after watching Lucas Herbert's winning highlights today. @Luckydutch and @Bogey2Better this is directly relevant to the concepts that have been discussed in your threads so i'm putting it here instead of spamming it in multiple places.

Now if we can agree to stare at some men's butts for a minute, this will be a helpful visual 😆



The rear angle IMO is almost better for discussing these concepts because we're less distracted by many other aesthetic swing elements. Here we see the initial shift in the backswing with pressure maxing out at P2 (club parallel to the ground). MOST people either get stuck here OR they take a lot longer to get here, which also leads to getting stuck, because it is everything that happens after this that is crucial to this concept.



This is really the key move here. It varies a little from player to player, but a version of this shift from P2 to P3 where not only does the shift into the trail leg completely stop, it's actually reversing already. We're barely halfway into the backswing and already a move is being made back towards the lead leg. Notice the right hip in relation to the red line and how much the right back pocket shifts towards the target, meanwhile the left leg is flexing slightly and bracing, ready for the leverage and power it's going to provide in transition.



Now from P3 to P4 (top of the backswing) we see the conclusion of this "re-centering" move with the hips squarely back in the box they started. This is a lot of movement that a vast majority of amateurs don't do correctly and i'd hazard basically NO high handicapper does at all. Most are starting their downswings with full/majority pressure still on their back leg or they never got there to begin with.



From here this momentum back towards the front side gets utilized to drive hard with the hips AHEAD of where they were at address early in the downswing.

Now Herbert is a little more extreme than some in this regard, a bit reminiscent of late 90's Tiger with an even more aggressive move forwards.



But the blueprint is there, even in his later years when be became a bit more centered:



We see the same pattern here with Rory albeit with a little more sink into that front leg:



And for anyone that believes this is a younger man's fitness thing, you better believe the legend that is Fat Perez does it even more:

How much pressure is on the trail heel at its peak?  

[JetPilot]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but fixing my early extension I feel has resulted in that "easy distance" we are all striving for.  

[RoyalTroon]

On 4/17/2023 at 9:07 AM, Wolfhammer said:

I have been searching for the WHY for this problem for me. I think it might be as simple as not knowing how to move correctly when I first learned how to swing. I could be wrong, but I'm on a mission now to re-teach my body how to move correctly. It's challenging because I perceive firing that right hip as POWER.

 

Without seeing what you're doing it is an issue for alot of folks.   Allowing a loaded top to drop into the slot without disturbing the club in space feels very weak and not powerful and when we sense this weakness we tend to instinctively tap into what we know can help us find powerful, the hip area, but when we try to goose it by using the hips improperly it can cause the club to kick out early and more behind the turn,  and those issues now have to be managed with not a lot of time to do that- also known as a hand save.     Power is slow, power is not quick.

 

19 hours ago, Wolfhammer said:

I can keep my trail hip in check if I swing at (what I feel is) 60%. Wondering if I should just continue to do this...

 

Understandable, and continue at less speed until you can get the hips working away from toes instead of toward them in transition. 

[golferdude54]

I'd cut a golf ball in half and place the flat part on the ground underneath the middle of the outstep of the back foot. That's a drill by Mickey Wright btw, just modified so that the ball wouldn't move when it's cut in half plus it's easier on the foot.

 

Then place a long tee just right of the heel and outstep of the back foot and at no point in the downswing or follow through should your heel touch that tee. Doing both drills at the same time properly ensures that your right knee and hip won't go at the ball.

[parmark]

8 hours ago, JetPilot said:

I haven't read through the entire thread, but fixing my early extension I feel has resulted in that "easy distance" we are all striving for.  

Details details.  Any keys you may be able to share with the rest of the class?

Congrats.

[JetPilot]

2 hours ago, parmark said:

Details details.  Any keys you may be able to share with the rest of the class?

Congrats.

I don't think it's anything that groundbreaking - just proper sequencing.  Firing the hips early requires a lot of effort.  Not doing so almost feels like you're not doing much, but the result of proper sequencing is that easy power.  

[parmark]

14 minutes ago, JetPilot said:

I don't think it's anything that groundbreaking - just proper sequencing.  Firing the hips early requires a lot of effort.  Not doing so almost feels like you're not doing much, but the result of proper sequencing is that easy power.  

Thanks for that, makes perfect sense.  Just this weekend had a major AHA moment.  Being distantly challenged always thought I really needed to get my arms in my backswing really back/deep.  So I admit I'm a little slow when it comes to details.  Little did I know all this time all I was doing was causing arm over-run from my very limited backswing to start with (I'm more all arms.  A defensive strategy to try to ward off shanky swing that appears due to insufficient hip depth.)  I'm a poster child for Monte's point of body at impact position and arms still racing to catch up. So flip/wipe high short fly ball to shallow right field for the third out of the inning.  So your point is spot on - no magic dust, just common sense. Which always been a problem for me 🤣

[chigolfer1]

This helps getting away from the popping out of right hip to start the downswing. (Monte liked it too)  Although some are saying it's more of an effect, I think for this particular fault, it's often misunderstanding how to physically "fire the hips" and get the proper rotation.  Dan Carraher also has the thing where you put your right foot in a milk crate, range ball bucket, etc. to stop from firing out that right knee/hip.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CmzlhGRJaJN/?hl=en

 

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by chigolfer1

[Tanner25]

7 hours ago, chigolfer1 said:

This helps getting away from the popping out of right hip to start the downswing. (Monte liked it too)  Although some are saying it's more of an effect, I think for this particular fault, it's often misunderstanding how to physically "fire the hips" and get the proper rotation.  Dan Carraher also has the thing where you put your right foot in a milk crate, range ball bucket, etc. to stop from firing out that right knee/hip.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CmzlhGRJaJN/?hl=en

 

 

 

As one of the posters said, on this clip. Instructions unclear absolutely blew out both knees trying this.

 

Pros and others should consider their suggestions for the average Joe's who are not in shape.

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Tanner25

[Albatross Dreamer]

On 4/26/2023 at 1:59 AM, Valtiel said:

Now if we can agree to stare at some men's butts for a minute, this will be a helpful visual 😆

I like golf butts and I cannot lie
You other WRX'rs can't deny
That when a guy walks in with an itty bitty sway
And a pivot in your face
You get sprung, want to pull one 300
'Cause you noticed that swing was sick
Deep in the FootJoys he's wearing
I'm hooked and I can't stop staring
Oh baby, I wanna play wit'cha
And take your picture
My WRX'rs tried to warn me
But that swing you got makes (me, me so jelly)

 

Ok I'm done.

[chigolfer1]

14 hours ago, Tanner25 said:

 

As one of the posters said, on this clip. Instructions unclear absolutely blew out both knees trying this.

 

Pros and others should consider their suggestions for the average Joe's who are not in shape.

 

 

Are you talking about actually being on that slider or just on the ground?