Golf Not Fun Anymore - Too Slow

[OnTheBag]

22 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

 

Play first out in the morning and the round will be less than 4 hours. My group (s) are always the first out and our average round is 3 hours.

While I agree, not everyone has that luxury.  I'm retired so I play early as well but my sons both have jobs that prevent early golf except on Sunday.  I keep hoping that this "golf boom" will calm down and we can get back to normal.  There is no excuse for a 5 hour round......public, private, tour, anywhere.  Hit it, find it, hit it again.

[596]

I wish people would stop saying private courses are faster play than Muni's. It's definitely not

always true. 

 

We see 88,000 rounds per year at our city course. If you go over 4 hours it would be considered slow.  We walk 9 in 90 minutes. Routinely at under 4 for 18.  

 

I was a member at a private course nearby and 4 to 41/2 hours was normal there. Much slower then our public course. 

 

 

[jholz]

Welcome to Europe and East Asia my friends...

 

Too many people trying to use too few resources. Too many "richard-heads" scattered liberally throughout the general population. Doesn't matter where you are, what dogma you ascribe to, or what time period you live in. It's a simple fact of humanity.

 

As populations grow and resources get squeezed - regulation enters the picture to keep things remotely logical.

 

"Golfvaardigheidsbewijs?"

[Denny100]

5 minutes ago, 596 said:

I wish people would stop saying private courses are faster play than Muni's. It's definitely not

always true. 

 

We see 88,000 rounds per year at our city course. If you go over 4 hours it would be considered slow.  We walk 9 in 90 minutes. Routinely at under 4 for 18.  

 

I was a member at a private course nearby and 4 to 41/2 hours was normal there. Much slower then our public course. 

 

 

 

I dont know where the "private courses" are quicker myth comes from.

 

The private courses tend to have an older demographic at them who are slower in nature and often have more time to play in my experience, hence they come to the course more than younger people. 

 

Ive seen marshalls on muni's but i dont see them on private courses.

 

 

[Soloman1]

So, you’ve replaced playing golf with talking about playing golf?

 

I’ve replaced hiking with watching videos of others hiking. Saves time driving back and forth to the hiking place. Hiking takes too long.

[MichaelGFox]

17 hours ago, AngryGilmore said:

Me too.  I live in Des Moines and it is getting harder to get a tee time.   I sometimes have to play Coldwater in Ames if I have a day off because it isn't terribly crowded in the mornings.

public golf in des moines is not easy. desperately need that top golf

[MountainKing]

Covid has not been good for the game.  It's become impossible in this area to get prime tee times, rates are through the roof while service is at a minimum.  In the last few weeks I've had people hit into us, or hit at us with no warning and they seemed dumbfounded that we expected a fore or something.  It seems like what used to be just one or two groups out there is now a majority of the course.   Most of these covid players would be far better served at Top Golf. 

 

I would love to take the private route, but in the area I live in, the reasonable private courses wouldn't be places I'd want to play over and over, and the rest are 6 figures+ down, as somebody who is trying to retire young I can't be doing that.    I personally think it's at a point where you need to have a license or a valid handicap to get on a course.  Something that requires a bit of education.  I don't care what anybody does until it starts impacting the people around them, and that's exactly what is happening right now.

[Denny100]

14 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

So, you’ve replaced playing golf with talking about playing golf?

 

I’ve replaced hiking with watching videos of others hiking. Saves time driving back and forth to the hiking place. Hiking takes too long.

 

I dont quite get the logic of the OP in some ways.

 

If im going to be out all day id rather spend all day fishing or hiking - ok, says to me that 1) you DO have all day so theres not much to hurry for and 2) youd rather fish or hike. Thats fine, fish or hike then.

 

I dont really get it. I have time to fish or hike all day, but under NO circumstances must my golf game take over 3 hours or its a waste of a day..... right.... but youll literally sit all day waiting to catch a fish that might never happen anyway.

 

Id say the reality is if you like other activities more, just do those instead. Its not that big of a deal.

[MelloYello]

28 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

I dont know where the "private courses" are quicker myth comes from.

 

The private courses tend to have an older demographic at them who are slower in nature and often have more time to play in my experience, hence they come to the course more than younger people. 

 

Ive seen marshalls on muni's but i dont see them on private courses.

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

I dont know where the "private courses" are quicker myth comes from.

 

 

 

Where does the myth come from? 

 

Probably the notion that when you hike up the price, reducing the density of golfers on the course and generally make it so those that buy access are mostly life-long devotees of the game willing to spend thousands on a golf-centric lifestyle, you'll get a group that embraces the enforcement of a certain code of conduct and is by it's nature better at avoiding issues altogether. 

 

In short, there are many reasons. To begin, there are fewer slow players at private clubs and the quality of golfer is generally better, two things that at surely related. What's more, slow play is far more likely to be nipped in the bud when it develops or generally relegated to those slow players self-selecting times that don't impose a restriction on others to the degree it might if they went out during the busiest times. 

 

Not to mention the small things like how golfers at private clubs are much more likely to play games where they don't card 10's and pick up after net double anyway. 

 

There are a million reasons why private is usually faster. Nobody wants to be slow or be seen as slow or know that their slow play is holding others up. Those things are part of what you're paying for. Even if there are a few slow folks, they do a good job of avoiding busy times and if necessary, letting others through. They are far more conscientious in that way. 

 

You don't need something to be absolutely true, everywhere, all the time for it to be worth repeating. 

 

 

.

Edited June 27, 2023 by MelloYello

[Denny100]

Just now, MelloYello said:

 

 

Where does the myth come from? 

 

Probably the notion that when you hike up the price, reducing the density of golfers on the course and generally make it so those that buy access are mostly life-long devotees of the game willing to spend thousands on a golf-centric lifestyle, you'll get a group that embraces the enforcement of a certain code of conduct and is better are avoiding issues altogether. 

 

In short, there are fewer slow players at private clubs and the quality of golfer is generally better. What's more, slow play is far more likely to be nipped in the bud when it develops. Not to mention golfers at private clubs are much more likely to play games where they don't card 10's and pick up after net double anyway. 

 

There are a million reasons why private is usually faster. 

 

You don't need something to be absolutely true, everywhere, all the time for it to be worth repeating. 

 

Ive absolutely no evidence from playing golf for 25+ years, all but probably one year of it at private clubs that suggests private clubs are faster to be honest.

 

Private courses here are extremely busy with waiting lists to join and joining fees. They arent full of the life long devotees of golf centric lifestyles that you mention, they are just people with money. Sometimes theyre getting their membership heavily discounted, i.e. students, intermediate categories etc.

 

Private golf clubs can have 1000+ members each. There are more people REGULARLY playing at the private clubs whereas at the muni's, theres a wider population of people who might go, but those who want to play regularly realise that the way to do this most economically is to.........join the private club rather than pay a fee on each individual round.

 

The standard of play in all private clubs is generally woeful. Yes, there might be the odd person whos really good, and then youll get a subsection of decent handicappers. Most are useless and dont even play competition golf hence theyre probably considerably worse than even their handicap suggests.

 

Plus, the private member clubs are usually in my experience harder courses rather than wide open short munis where you can just hit it anywhere and carry on. The muni's are designed with that type of golfer in mind, they arent designed to look like firestone south.

 

I will politely disagree with the anecdotal evidence ive had across probably 200 member clubs as a member (at a few) and a visitor (at a lot) that it makes any difference.

[RSinSG]

Getting one of the first tee times used to = a quick round. Not so much anymore when they start people on hole 10.

[ShortGolfer]

One of the luxuries of being rich is not having to wait around like normal people.  Banks give their valued customers special phone numbers that are answered promptly.

 This is the most obvious benefit a private club can offer its guests.  Quick rounds with a minimum of waiting around.

Unlike public courses, private courses have little difficulty paring players with issues from its membership.

I know someone who was told that their behavior was unacceptable and had their money refunded.

Fortunately I'm bad with names so I don't have to worry about letting that slip out!

 

I retired early so now I have the luxury of playing whenever I want.

I grew up in the tropics and can handle the heat, so I may try some new courses when the weather is hot and humid.

I save a ton of money by not needing to run A/C like everyone else!

 

[ShortGolfer]

Duplicate post. Please delete.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[ShortGolfer]

Duplicate post. please delete.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[MelloYello]

1 hour ago, Denny100 said:

 

Ive absolutely no evidence from playing golf for 25+ years, all but probably one year of it at private clubs that suggests private clubs are faster to be honest.

 

Private courses here are extremely busy with waiting lists to join and joining fees. They arent full of the life long devotees of golf centric lifestyles that you mention, they are just people with money. Sometimes theyre getting their membership heavily discounted, i.e. students, intermediate categories etc.

 

Private golf clubs can have 1000+ members each. There are more people REGULARLY playing at the private clubs whereas at the muni's, theres a wider population of people who might go, but those who want to play regularly realise that the way to do this most economically is to.........join the private club rather than pay a fee on each individual round.

 

The standard of play in all private clubs is generally woeful. Yes, there might be the odd person whos really good, and then youll get a subsection of decent handicappers. Most are useless and dont even play competition golf hence theyre probably considerably worse than even their handicap suggests.

 

Plus, the private member clubs are usually in my experience harder courses rather than wide open short munis where you can just hit it anywhere and carry on. The muni's are designed with that type of golfer in mind, they arent designed to look like firestone south.

 

I will politely disagree with the anecdotal evidence ive had across probably 200 member clubs as a member (at a few) and a visitor (at a lot) that it makes any difference.

 

As you say, we've had vastly different experiences. 

 

FWIW, my conception of "Private Club" is one catering towards middle class and upper class people who want the country club experience: golf, tennis, swimming, dining, socializing, etc. 

 

If you're including clubs that cater towards millionaires who are joining for other than just practical reasons then yes, I can imagine how it'd be a different ball-game as that group is buying in not merely because they like golf. 

 

But that person is unlikely to be reading my posts and making decisions based on what I say here. I speak to this audience. 

[Denny100]

31 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

As you say, we've had vastly different experiences. 

 

FWIW, my conception of "Private Club" is one catering towards middle class and upper class people who want the country club experience: golf, tennis, swimming, dining, socializing, etc. 

 

If you're including clubs that cater towards millionaires who are joining for other than just practical reasons then yes, I can imagine how it'd be a different ball-game as that group is buying in not merely because they like golf. 

 

But that person is unlikely to be reading my posts and making decisions based on what I say here. I speak to this audience. 

 

There are golf clubs here that do offer you a swimming pool, tennis courts etc but those are rare and usually the big resorts that cost a small fortune to be a member of. Those courses still attract visitors who will pay a green fee just to go there once a year.

 

The "private members" clubs are essentially the same as the muni's, except they sell an annual membership. Often the facilities are no better than the muni, sometimes worse. Muni's often offer a driving range, sometimes offer a big golf superstore on the site. The private member club often has a small pro shop and maybe a grass practice ground, sometimes youre looking at a couple of nets and a little putting green.

 

Memberships can range from lets go ballpark figure £1,200 to £1,500 for that. Often with decent joining fees too.

 

People join these clubs because they realise its still cheaper than paying £40 every time they want to go. Thats the reason they are there.

 

I probably would go somewhere super exclusive, IF i could, but for me its more the other way around. I dont want to play quicker and fly round in 2 hours. Im not slow, ill play a fourball in 3.5 hours, but id pay the super exclusive fee to NOT have someone behind me trying to hassle round in two hours. 

[Jose c.]

I've heard these same complaints about deer hunting on state land. Replacing slow play for slobs,unethical, hunting next to me,etc,etc. I do feel your pain,can't stand slow play. I've gone the membership ( not private)route,where I have no problem skipping holes or simply taking my ball and going home.

[Denny100]

The slow play argument is one that makes little sense.

 

You are choosing to do an activity that inherently takes a lot of time to do.

 

Whats the point moaning about it, you choose to play golf. 

 

I cant see how going round in 3 hours instead of 4 is going to make some drastic change to your life when you probably had 30 mins warmup time on top of that, and maybe 30 mins worth of commuting on the day too. Its a considerable time investment anyway.

 

Just dont get the point of moaning or why you expect everyone is going to speed up for your benefit.

 

 

[Davegolf1357]

I refuse to play on weekends anymore.  Slow play doesn't bother me all that much, but the course is packed with loud music playing, slow idiots that are terrible golfers.  I've found Wed. afternoon is the best time to play.  The courses around me are usually pretty empty and you can play a pretty quick, peaceful round.  

[Soloman1]

When microwave ovens first became popular, we were amazed that a baked potato only took 8-9 minutes instead of an hour in the oven.

 

It wasn’t long until we were glaring at the microwave, saying, “Dammit, hurry up!”

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

57 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

The slow play argument is one that makes little sense.

 

You are choosing to do an activity that inherently takes a lot of time to do.

 

Whats the point moaning about it, you choose to play golf. 

 

I cant see how going round in 3 hours instead of 4 is going to make some drastic change to your life when you probably had 30 mins warmup time on top of that, and maybe 30 mins worth of commuting on the day too. Its a considerable time investment anyway.

 

Just dont get the point of moaning or why you expect everyone is going to speed up for your benefit.

 

 

Play out of the trunk, that's what we do...no need to warm up

[Denny100]

10 minutes ago, Is Golf Fun or Work said:

Play out of the trunk, that's what we do...no need to warm up

 

theres no need to even hit the ball if you just keep it in your pocket and walk to the middle of the fairway. its magic 😆

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

15 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

theres no need to even hit the ball if you just keep it in your pocket and walk to the middle of the fairway. its magic 😆

Actually we tee off and it goes right down the middle, try it some time

[Denny100]

1 minute ago, Is Golf Fun or Work said:

Actually we tee off and it goes right down the middle, try it some time

 

Yeah, sure it does. Every single time 😂

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

9 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

Yeah, sure it does. Every single time 😂

Pretty much, guess you're one of those guys who can't without hitting a large bucket first?

[Denny100]

Just now, Is Golf Fun or Work said:

Pretty much, guess you're one of those guys who can't without hitting a large bucket first?

 

And then you decide to make 5 bogeys for craps and giggles i suppose given that you STRIPE it off that first tee every day. Maybe the beer takes over.

 

You dont have time for large buckets anyway. Cant hit one in 5 mins.

 

😂

[Desert Golf]

Im retired and work part time as a starter/marshal at a public course in the Palm Springs area. During peak season from December through March, our tee sheets are usually full and 4.5 hour rounds are the norm. I rarely play during this time but make up for it in April through September when the heat comes and the snowbirds leave.  
 

if I had to endure rounds that are 4.5 hours + I would probably give up too. I’m fortunate that I can play 6 months out of the year on a relatively empty course.

 

I love early morning summer golf in the Coachella Valley.  

Edited June 27, 2023 by Desert Golf

[Denny100]

@Is Golf Fun or Work has three hours a week to play golf.

 

Uses 30 hours a week on a golf forum instead.

[needfasp3ed]

The only way I'm playing a public course is if I have the very first tee time of the day, which I often do.  The majority of them are completely booked from 7:00am - 7:00pm on weekends, it's easily 5+ hours.  I barely have the patience for rounds over 3.5 hours, definitely not 5 hours. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by needfasp3ed

[needfasp3ed]

3 hours ago, Denny100 said:

The slow play argument is one that makes little sense.

 

I cant see how going round in 3 hours instead of 4 is going to make some drastic change to your life when you probably had 30 mins warmup time on top of that, and maybe 30 mins worth of commuting on the day too. Its a considerable time investment anyway.

 

 

An hour is the difference between waiting on tee boxes or staying in rhythm and simply hitting within 30 seconds after arriving to your ball. My fastest rounds are also some of my best rounds of the year; obviously pace impacts everyone differently as I have playing partners that wouldn't be phased by a 5 hour round, I'm miserable.