Player tees off on next hole before holing out

[TheDominator273]

A few groups at my club like to tee off on our 15th hole, a Par 3 over water, then tee off on the 16th hole before heading to the 15th green to complete that hole.  What would the correct ruling be for a player who does this?

 

[rogolf]

Disqualification for failure to hole out on no. 15.  

[chollier986]

Banned for life 

[Strategery]

Fun round? Meh, who cares.

[tatertot]

Architect should be shot.

[sui generis]

1 hour ago, Strategery said:

Fun round? Meh, who cares.

 

OP posted in the Rules folder. He cares. 

 

Perhaps, it's you who doesn't belong here?

[TheDominator273]

4 hours ago, rogolf said:

Disqualification for failure to hole out on no. 15.  

They do hole out on 15, just after playing the tee shot on 16.

 

The couple groups that do this think they are saving time, but having tested it, the difference is inconsequential at best.

[Schulzmc]

9 minutes ago, TheDominator273 said:

They do hole out on 15, just after playing the tee shot on 16.

 

The couple groups that do this think they are saving time, but having tested it, the difference is inconsequential at best.

Saving time or saving steps?

 

You cannot have two balls in play at the same time. Once they have hit their tee shot on 15 the tee shot on 16 is a Wrong Ball.

[TheDominator273]

3 minutes ago, Schulzmc said:

Saving time or saving steps?

 

You cannot have two balls in play at the same time. Once they have hit their tee shot on 15 the tee shot on 16 is a Wrong Ball.

The claim is that it saves time.

[iacas]

26 minutes ago, TheDominator273 said:

They do hole out on 15, just after playing the tee shot on 16.

 

You posted in the Rules forum, and were told what the rules were. They played from the next tee before holing out on the previous hole. The round consists of playing the holes in the proper order.

[Colin L]

29 minutes ago, TheDominator273 said:

They do hole out on 15, just after playing the tee shot on 16.

 

The couple groups that do this think they are saving time, but having tested it, the difference is inconsequential at best.

 

The ball played from the 16th is the player's ball in play, played with the intention of starting that hole.    That makes the ball that is lying on the 15th hole  a wrong ball. 

 

 

. 

[davep043]

I agree its a DQ, the player never finishes #15, but it could be a lot more convoluted.  They start #15, then play an illegally substituted ball from #16 tee.  That substituted ball becomes the ball in play (per 14.4), the original ball played from 15 tee becomes a Wrong Ball.  The only rule that could apply to the substituted ball is Stroke and Distance, so that shot from 16 tee is played from a Wrong Place, probably not a Serious Breach.  They have to complete 15 using the ball played from 16 tee.  But instead he plays the Wrong Ball into the hole on 15, never completes 15 with the correct ball..  He also doesn't have a ball properly in play on 16.

[mshills]

9 hours ago, TheDominator273 said:

They do hole out on 15, just after playing the tee shot on 16.

 

The couple groups that do this think they are saving time, but having tested it, the difference is inconsequential at best.

Is there a different answer that you or these couple groups want?

 

Saving time or steps aside, the rule is DQ for not holing out. 

[TheDominator273]

36 minutes ago, mshills said:

Is there a different answer that you or these couple groups want?

 

Saving time or steps aside, the rule is DQ for not holing out. 

Nope, I've gotten the answer needed.  I was wanting to make sure I fully understood the nuance of the why though.

[mshills]

Cool.  That layout is far from ideal, not sure what the designer was really thinking there....obviously not thinking that golf is played on foot, but of course there had to be limitations on what he/she had to work with.

[TheDominator273]

4 minutes ago, mshills said:

Cool.  That layout is far from ideal, not sure what the designer was really thinking there....obviously not thinking that golf is played on foot, but of course there had to be limitations on what he/she had to work with.

Course was built in 1919, but the back tee for 16 I believe came much later.  There's a shorter tee box that is now for the forward 3 sets of tees that is behind 15 green.

[Colin L]

10 hours ago, Schulzmc said:

Saving time or saving steps?

 

You cannot have two balls in play at the same time. Once they have hit their tee shot on 15 the tee shot on 16 is a Wrong Ball.

Sorry to disagree.  The ball played from the 16th tee is a  ball newly put into play That's why I said above that the ball lying on the 15th is a wrong ball.  I did wonder for a moment if the player could take the penalty for the incorrect substitution and play all the way back from 300 yards down the 16th (this is Golf WRX, after all, the home of humungous drives) and hole out on the 15th with the substituted ball, but reflected that the purpose of putting it into play was to start the 16th and so that ball had no relationship to playing the 15th.

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Colin L

[j.b.newton]

my former course had a similar situation (14 & 15 though).  Real/Tournament Rounds - finish 14 and come back to 15.   Fun rounds to keep pace of play going, Wedge off 14 to green, cart to 15 Driver, then go finish 14, and continue to 15 fairway.

[Schulzmc]

33 minutes ago, Colin L said:

Sorry to disagree.  The ball played from the 16th tee is a  ball newly put into play That's why I said above that the ball lying on the 15th is a wrong ball.

Yep - I had the right idea but was wrong in applying it.

[mshills]

43 minutes ago, TheDominator273 said:

Course was built in 1919, but the back tee for 16 I believe came much later.  There's a shorter tee box that is now for the forward 3 sets of tees that is behind 15 green.

Got it, I see the forward tees in between the small stand of trees and the water.

[davep043]

3 hours ago, Colin L said:

Sorry to disagree.  The ball played from the 16th tee is a  ball newly put into play That's why I said above that the ball lying on the 15th is a wrong ball.  I did wonder for a moment if the player could take the penalty for the incorrect substitution and play all the way back from 300 yards down the 16th (this is Golf WRX, after all, the home of humungous drives) and hole out on the 15th with the substituted ball, but reflected that the purpose of putting it into play was to start the 16th and so that ball had no relationship to playing the 15th.

 

I'd suggest that the intent as to which hole he was playing wouldn't matter, only that he intends for it to be in play.  Following that, he could indeed play that ball from the 16th fairway to finish 15.  I'm way too lazy to start counting all the penalties involved.

[Colin L]

I went through that, Dave, and recognise the argument  but concluded that the intention of starting the 16th was significant. One of us is right, but I suspect an RB ruling is needed to determine which  it is.   

[rogolf]

24 minutes ago, Colin L said:

I went through that, Dave, and recognise the argument  but concluded that the intention of starting the 16th was significant. One of us is right, but I suspect an RB ruling is needed to determine which  it is.   

If someone has an old Decisions book (I do, but am away from home), there is a Decision which simply stated dq for not finishing the 15th before starting another hole, no other things were discussed.  Imo, it's just that easy.

[Strategery]

I expect DQ. It's a willful egregious breach with collaboration.

 

[darkhelmet]

All these responses and nobody has yet commented on the fact that the lower pond looks like a big:

 

 

 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, darkhelmet said:

big

 

You sure about that?

[MountainKing]

As somebody who appreciates those who do what they can to speed things up, I can't imagine this saves more than a minute. 

[Nels55]

We have a similar situation and I have often teed off on the third hole before putting out on the second green during an early morning round.  It's simply efficient and appeals to my driver personality.  LOL I like to get things done!  Obviously we don't do it during normal play later in the day when the course is busy or during tournament rounds.

[Phireside]

There is a private club near me that has a similar situation. Every time i've played there with members they encourage this if the hole is open, though I'm not sure if they do it in tournament rounds.

[TheDominator273]

2 hours ago, MountainKing said:

As somebody who appreciates those who do what they can to speed things up, I can't imagine this saves more than a minute. 

Nope, it's about a 60 second walk from 15 green back to 16 tee.