Club face/Club head make contact with the back of the ball?

[kowalgolf]

I've been playing a long, long, long, time and term hit the back of the ball is foreign to me. Can good ball strikers see the clubface/head VISUALLY contact the back of the ball at the moment of truth. I'm working on ball position and Langer's is off his left ear. Mine is not and set up is hard for me. At 85-90 mph swing speed can you see the face contact the back of the ball?

[596]

Nope, not me. I think it I tried to see that, it would end up poorly as if have a "hit" instinct. I focus on where I want the head of the club to go, which is in front of the ball. 

[RoyalTroon]

Strike location on the ball and visual processing are two different questions.  Some claim to see the strike and some claim they haven't.    It seems saccadic masking holds part of the answer.  Ball position is a variable to the lateness of strike.  The more later strike you have in your pocket the further ahead the ball can be. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by BALLYBUNION

[jimmie]

Nope. I don't really try to see it either. I visualize it as part of my setup, lock that visualization in and try to return to that point, but not by watching it happen. It's all feel through impact.

[phizzy30]

I don't focus on trying to keep my head down and looking at the ball on the down swing.  For me It's all about making sure I'm hitting certain positions which is more feel based.  Putting is a different story. 

[PedronNiall]

The clubhead is in contact with the club for too short of a time to actually see the strike in a way you can consciously observe. You're looking at/near the ball so that you can give your brain a visual cue on where to return the club to, not so you can actually watch the impact. If you search you'll find that different pros mention looking at different spots on, behind, or just in front of the ball depending on their comfort or when hitting specific shots.

 

Baseball, softball, tennis, etc., players hit a moving ball with a moving implement, in some cases only being able to track the ball prior to their strike and losing focused sight of it just before impact. There's a great series from a few years ago where they show that while many people with good hand-eye coordination think they have unique ways of tracking & intercepting objects in space, but that most actually have very similar eye movements during the activity. Those tracking patterns match the same way dogs track & catch objects. 

 

Back to eye location, at least some instructors mention choosing specific visual locations depending on the desired shot shape. That seems to align with this study, though it was conducted with a single subject and hasn't been repeated at scale AFAIK. Still, they did observe that eye location when preparing for and just before striking the ball affected flight & dispersion. Other eye tracking studies for putting and full swing showed that better players keep their eyes on/around the ball in the seconds leading up to the stroke/swing and that they remain where the ball was just after the stroke when putting. Higher handicap players have also be observed to have difficulty with this and often continue looking at multiple points other than the ball just before and while taking the club away. 

 

As my new favorite instructor Ron Sisson puts it, golf is a hand-eye coordination skill first & foremost; the mechanical actions of the swing flow from the brain's direction of the body to guide the club in space back to the ball. The easiest and most efficient way to do that is by looking at where you want the club to return to, and the eyes and brain have evolved to do that very well. Shawn Clement also talks about this in quite a few of his videos, and both he and Sisson have spoken with Dr Wulf from UNLV who pioneered work on external focus in sports skill development. Even when you drive--cars, not golf balls--you tend to guide the vehicle where the eyes are looking. Where the eyes go the body follows. 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Nope, I'm pretty sure my head is coming up slightly even. I'm not trying to hit at the ball either as that's not where the bottom of the swing is (at least with an iron). 

[naval2006]

On my good ballstriking days I used to see the clubhead hitting the ball. Until one day a golf geek I used to play with told me that was impossible, it was just in my mind. I kept that image for most of my best years but now it’s long gone and I’m starting to finally believe my friend. 

[KMeloney]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:53 AM, kowalgolf said:

I've been playing a long, long, long, time and term hit the back of the ball is foreign to me. Can good ball strikers see the clubface/head VISUALLY contact the back of the ball at the moment of truth. I'm working on ball position and Langer's is off his left ear. Mine is not and set up is hard for me. At 85-90 mph swing speed can you see the face contact the back of the ball?

 

What, exactly, is your question here? Your post title question isn't the same question you've asked in the last line of your post. I'm not sure what you're having a problem with.

[kowalgolf]

41 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

 

What, exactly, is your question here? Your post title question isn't the same question you've asked in the last line of your post. I'm not sure what you're having a problem with.

Sorry, Been playing 62 yrs. and you know how ideas or thoughts pop into your head. Langers set up he has his ball off his left ear and mine is not. Working on this concept and it gets my head more behind the ball thus giving me a chance to deliver the clubhead to the back of the ball. Good hand eye coordination IF I get set up decent. That first 12 inches with the hands and wrists is my downfall.

[vman]

Hitting the back of the ball is a generally a good idea......at 7 o'clock according to Lee Trevino. You ain't seeing it tho' as it's all a blur.

[Pepperturbo]

On 7/8/2023 at 8:53 AM, kowalgolf said:

Can good ball strikers see the clubface/head VISUALLY contact the back of the ball at the moment of truth.

No, I can't actually see impact.  Golfers like me want to feel impact vibration; impact feels and sounds different using different parts of the club face.  Using Driver, I have a slight negative AoA, thus not hitting up on the ball, as much as hitting down on the ball.

 

As a feel player, my hands feel impact vibrations, on driver and irons, so I never need to look up to see where the ball is going.  Oh, I don't hit the backside of the ball with irons; my club head comes from the inside and hits down on the ball. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[Ri_Redneck]

Never seen the club actually in contact with the ball. But when I'm really watching the ball like I am supposed to, it disappears and I see the grass or tee pop up where it was. Those are good ball striking days for sure!

 

BT

[KMeloney]

On 7/10/2023 at 2:23 PM, kowalgolf said:

Sorry, Been playing 62 yrs. and you know how ideas or thoughts pop into your head. Langers set up he has his ball off his left ear and mine is not. Working on this concept and it gets my head more behind the ball thus giving me a chance to deliver the clubhead to the back of the ball. Good hand eye coordination IF I get set up decent. That first 12 inches with the hands and wrists is my downfall.

 

Since you mention ball position, it sounds as though you're asking whether others have the ball forward enough in their stance that they're seeing the back of the ball, just above the grass, where they plan to contact it. (Your question isn't about actually hitting the back of the ball, is it? You can talk about approaching the ball from the inside and hitting the "lower-right quadrant" and whatnot, but we're all hitting the back of the ball, more or less.)

 

If you're asking about actually being able to see the club hit the ball as it relates to keeping your eyes focused on the ball/where the ball was throughout the swing until the ball is gone, then I try to do that. If I thin or wipe a shot, I can usually attribute all or part of that mishit to not seeing the ball leave the spot it was sitting (ie - looking up and getting out of posture early).