1/2 to 3/4 Wedge shot

[GoGoErky]

33 minutes ago, golfwb said:

Just out of curiosity where are you obtaining this data set?

Strokes gained data shows that 

[st1800e]

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/lee-trevino-explains-key-wedge-play-fundamentals

[golfwb]

9 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

Strokes gained data shows that 

Edited August 5, 2023 by golfwb

[ANimz]

On 8/3/2023 at 10:12 AM, FormerBigDaddy said:

This year I’ve been finding myself with a lot of 1/2 to 3/4 shots and I have not be handling them well from the fairway. I normally hit a full 60* wedge between 95-100 yards and the tight lie shots from 50-75yds are totally in my head. Thins and fats galore. 
 

What is your go to set up and club selection for these shots that has the largest margin for error? I also carry a 56-52 but most times I have to get it up in the air a bit to elevated greens. Open to anything though really. I need something to go to that I can practice and build confidence that I’m going to get it on the green from the fairway and not chunk it halfway there. 
 

Thanks in advance. 

How do you set up for these shots currently?

[golfwb]

10 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

Strokes gained data shows that 

Where does the data come from? Honest question.

[byoshio82]

I use a 50* a lot for these shots. For me it grabs more than the 55 and 60 do. However if I need more height I will use a 55 but I usually only use a 60 if I need to land it high and soft or I can hit it 75-80% which is usually 100-105 anything more usually ends up with a poor result. 

[iacas]

22 minutes ago, golfwb said:

Where does the data come from? Honest question.

 

Many, many thousands (or millions) of shots from golfers of all ability levels. We're close to a decade of knowing this stuff.

[SNIPERBBB]

27 minutes ago, golfwb said:

Where does the data come from? Honest question.

Shotlink data from the PGA tour and Arccos data

[golfwb]

11 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Shotlink data from the PGA tour and Arccos data

Pros are pros. If arccos is involved, I will step away and lay it up to a good number. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by golfwb

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, golfwb said:

Pros are pros. If arccos is involved, I will step away and lay it up to a good number. 

 

It's true at all levels. ShotScope, GAME, Arccos, GolfMetrics… just about everyone.

 

Do what you want, but "laying it up to a good number" is often the wrong play.

[SNIPERBBB]

cant post the link but heres an excerpt from results of a study of arccos data:

 

Average Distance to the Pin on Approach from 60-80 yards

0-5 handicap: 41.38 feet

6-10 handicap: 45.20 feet

11-15 handicap: 50.49 feet

16-20 handicap: 55.21 yards

20+ handicap: 62.43 feet

Average Distance to the Pin on Approach from 100-120 yards

0-5 handicap: 48.82 feet

6-10 handicap: 54.56 feet

11-15 handicap: 61.85 feet

16-20 handicap: 70.76 feet

20+ handicap: 83.46 feet

[indianagolf2]

Where are you located 

[Louis_Posture]

1 hour ago, golfwb said:

Pros are pros. If arccos is involved, I will step away and lay it up to a good number. 

Good sense decision!

[indianagolf2]

 

[indianagolf2]

Sieckman has other vids....Ben crane 

[FormerBigDaddy]

12 hours ago, ANimz said:

How do you set up for these shots currently?

I play it just forward of center and choke down about an inch. I open the face slightly and try to take a bit shorter backswing but still keeping my normal tempo. My biggest fault it my swing is usually dipping in the downswing and not rotating. I actually been playing the shot ok this year but last week I had a couple of really bad days and not just with wedges. I think maybe my faults crept into those wedge shots. 
 

The main point of this thread was not to debate course strategy. Most of the time I can get it on the green closer from 50-75 yds than I can laying back. Just sucks when I don’t. Overall I always feel like I have a better chance at birdie from 50-75 than 100-120. 
 

So really the question was about how you guys like to set up for the shot? My strategy above works really well from rough or intermediate cut bc with that setup I can pretty much take a normal swing and the setup will knock off 15-20 yds. It becomes more challenging under 75yds from a tight lie. The idea was that opening the face a tad and playing a bit forward would avoid digging as much. Although for me sometimes a forward ball, like in a bunker shot, encourages a turf first strike. 
 

At the end of the day I just want to work on whatever has the biggest margin for error and unfortunately bump and run is not a good option on the holes I encounter this shot the most at my club. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[ANimz]

43 minutes ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

I play it just forward of center and choke down about an inch. I open the face slightly and try to take a bit shorter backswing but still keeping my normal tempo. My biggest fault it my swing is usually dipping in the downswing and not rotating. I actually been playing the shot ok this year but last week I had a couple of really bad days and not just with wedges. I think maybe my faults crept into those wedge shots. 
 

The main point of this thread was not to debate course strategy. Most of the time I can get it on the green closer from 50-75 yds than I can laying back. Just sucks when I don’t. Overall I always feel like I have a better chance at birdie from 50-75 than 100-120. 
 

So really the question was about how you guys like to set up for the shot? My strategy above works really well from rough or intermediate cut bc with that setup I can pretty much take a normal swing and the setup will knock off 15-20 yds. It becomes more challenging under 75yds from a tight lie. The idea was that opening the face a tad and playing a bit forward would avoid digging as much. Although for me sometimes a forward ball, like in a bunker shot, encourages a turf first strike. 
 

At the end of the day I just want to work on whatever has the biggest margin for error and unfortunately bump and run is not a good option on the holes I encounter this shot the most at my club. 

So....you could try opening the face more and really utilizing the bounce.  Minimal to no forward shaft lean at address, and absolutely have your weight forward.  Then your intent is to bruise the grass.  You have to hit the ground.  It eliminates the chunk.  You can still have heavy shots, but it is much less devastating than a chunk.  I like to have a slight open stance to help encourage the rotation.  I think making sure you are rotating properly, and having a consistent swing speed/tempo is key as well.  

[SNIPERBBB]

Keeping your weight forward  really helps in keeping contact consistent. Cant sway much with these shorter shots, if you sway back you''ll tend to stay back or lunge towards the ball bringing el hosel into play

Edited August 5, 2023 by SNIPERBBB

[North Butte]

1 minute ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Keeping your weight forward  really helps in keeping contact consistent. Cant sway as with these shorter shots, if you sway back you''ll tend to stay back or lunge towards the ball bringing el hosel into play

I’ve spent some time hitting wedge shots of a pressure mat. For me even a little bit of weight lean onto that back foot during the backswing is a death move. I have to keep a lot of weight forward on those 1/2 to 3/4 swings.
 

But I have zero athletic ability, so I need to keep things really centered up where no timing or compensations are involved.

[596]

I'm a "keep it simple" guy.  I don't open a wedge for anything.  Everything is square.  Every distance is based on a partial swing to that distance.  Do you really open a wedge with a full swing to go a shorter distance? Would seem much easier to square the face and use a partial swing to go a shorter distance.  Even square alignment goes plenty high enough to stop on any green.

 

90% of my range time is spent on hitting gap wedge to 7 iron to the 80 to 100 yard sticks. Nothing is an open face. Keep it simple. 

 

ie yesterday. Par 3, 105 yards, 7 iron (my 150 club), square face, partial swing, to 5 feet for birdie. 

[bcjim]

Danny Maude has some good videos on this.

 

I'd much rather be closer to the green now than further from the green on almost any shot. The data don't lie for me personally and for golfers in general.  Maude's videos really helped me get more consistent and even pretty good from this range.

[Louis_Posture]

1 hour ago, 596 said:

I'm a "keep it simple" guy.  I don't open a wedge for anything.  Everything is square.  Every distance is based on a partial swing to that distance.  Do you really open a wedge with a full swing to go a shorter distance? Would seem much easier to square the face and use a partial swing to go a shorter distance.  Even square alignment goes plenty high enough to stop on any green.

 

90% of my range time is spent on hitting gap wedge to 7 iron to the 80 to 100 yard sticks. Nothing is an open face. Keep it simple. 

 

ie yesterday. Par 3, 105 yards, 7 iron (my 150 club), square face, partial swing, to 5 feet for birdie. 

 

This is why I like my 64* wedge.

I agree with you that opening the face of any club makes the shot more difficult than needed.

I agree with you that making square contact with your gap wedge thru 7-iron can get the ball close to the hole from inside 100 yards, but with partial length swings I am not skilled enough to consistently make square contact.

For that awkward 30 to 60 yard shot I like the 64* wedge because it can be mishit a little bit and still get the job done, which is a high trajectory shot that stops where it lands, no opening of the club face at address needed.

[Petethreeput]

I have an open face on all my shots.  Didn’t Nicklaus say he had never seen a good ball striker who didn’t have the face slightly?  Have I remembered it wrong?

 

My 1/2-3/4 shots are open face, my body is open, shaft as straight up as possible, ball just forward, weight in the middle, and a real conscious effort to face the hole at the end of the swing.

 

For the 30-50 yard shots everything is the same but I actually look at something on the ground just behind the ball.  During a tournament this week a guy I had never played with asked how I generated so much spin on these shots.  They tend to just sit down when they hit.  No idea why, they just do, and it works for me even though nothing about this says the ball should react this way.

 

Of course it may not work for you but this is my method.  I have a 52/56/60 set up.

[North Butte]

5 hours ago, 596 said:

I'm a "keep it simple" guy.  I don't open a wedge for anything.  Everything is square.  Every distance is based on a partial swing to that distance.  Do you really open a wedge with a full swing to go a shorter distance? Would seem much easier to square the face and use a partial swing to go a shorter distance.  Even square alignment goes plenty high enough to stop on any green.

 

90% of my range time is spent on hitting gap wedge to 7 iron to the 80 to 100 yard sticks. Nothing is an open face. Keep it simple. 

 

ie yesterday. Par 3, 105 yards, 7 iron (my 150 club), square face, partial swing, to 5 feet for birdie. 

My golf coach told me that the best way for me to control my trajectory and get plenty of spin on wedge shots is with a slightly open clubface, slightly open stance and ball position back a little. He wasn't showing me a wide-open face flop shot type thing but it was pretty definitely open a little. 

 

It was several years ago so I don't recall the details but at the time he explained the technical reasons that flighted wedge shot spins more consistently and is easier to control. Honestly, I didn't care enough about the physics to make notes at the time. I just like hitting those shots!

 

P.S. I don't know how to measure "openness" of the face in degrees. The amount I'm talking about seems to make a GW or SW fly about 6-8 yard less than it would with a square clubface. A little more than "half a club" so I guess it must not be all that many degrees open, maybe 3-4?

Edited August 5, 2023 by North Butte

[dsmil]

I spent a summer focusing on 40-75 yard shots with a net and a PRGR and it completely changed my ability on these shots. The reps helped me feel how hard to swing for each distance. Technique wise, I feel like I’m coming in steep but really nipping the ball, almost thin. Everything is with a 58 degree, and I can get a lot of spin on it. A “full” 58 degree would go 90 for me, but I don’t go past 80. It’s pretty much 3/4 swings and less for my 54 and 58, and that really helps with consistency.

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

On 8/3/2023 at 10:12 AM, DFS PFD said:

A shag bag and a practice green is your best option here, just need practice and confidence...

Exactly and entirely this.  My short approach game got infinitely better when I bought a shag bag, found a decent area, and practiced.  The TL;DR, is, "Build a wedge matrix through practice."

 

But anyway, practice becomes a bunch of answerable questions like, "48°, what does 9 o'clock do? How about 8?  7?  OK, what if I choke down one wrap on the grips and repeat?  What about 2?  Now, what if I open the face 10-15° and repeat?  Great!  Now do it for the 52..."

 

How far does it fly, how high do they go, how far do they run when they hit?  (That last one is tough; I'm not hitting to a green, but rather a pipeline right of way marker in a mown area...)  It takes awhile, and that's for my 'stock' pitch.

 

Flops are done differently, I can and do make them successfully in rounds, but the distance to effort relation is much different than a regular pitch.  It's very much a shot you have to practice a lot, and have faith that the giant backswing you're using isn't going to send the ball over the next tee.  Very easy to lose gumption and leave the shot short.

 

Chipping is different still.  That practice, I generally save for the course and its dedicated chipping green, as managing rollout is so key to that shot.

[North Butte]

Or you can simplify it even farther. Go to the practice green and hit every different club from each different distance, repeat until you get better at it. The clock thing is purely optional and works for folks whose temperament thrives on having a "system" for things like that. 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

On 8/5/2023 at 9:36 AM, FormerBigDaddy said:

I play it just forward of center and choke down about an inch. I open the face slightly and try to take a bit shorter backswing but still keeping my normal tempo. My biggest fault it my swing is usually dipping in the downswing and not rotating. I actually been playing the shot ok this year but last week I had a couple of really bad days and not just with wedges. I think maybe my faults crept into those wedge shots. 
 

The main point of this thread was not to debate course strategy. Most of the time I can get it on the green closer from 50-75 yds than I can laying back. Just sucks when I don’t. Overall I always feel like I have a better chance at birdie from 50-75 than 100-120. 
 

So really the question was about how you guys like to set up for the shot? My strategy above works really well from rough or intermediate cut bc with that setup I can pretty much take a normal swing and the setup will knock off 15-20 yds. It becomes more challenging under 75yds from a tight lie. The idea was that opening the face a tad and playing a bit forward would avoid digging as much. Although for me sometimes a forward ball, like in a bunker shot, encourages a turf first strike. 
 

At the end of the day I just want to work on whatever has the biggest margin for error and unfortunately bump and run is not a good option on the holes I encounter this shot the most at my club. 

 

Have to work on controlling the bottom, unless we are talking almost bare ground I'd almost prefer it to be as tight as possible because then I know I can spin it. I wouldn't open the face from a super tight lie though, or only very slightly. If you want a bit more margin less loft will be easier but then you obviously have less spin. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by TLUBulldogGolf

[Mcgeeno]

This is going to sound like exaggeration or hyperbole but about five years ago I entered my first playoff in my club championship. I'm slightly above average length and my opponent was a short knocker.

 

I pounded a drive around the dog leg and had 63 yards out. My opponent hit it behind a tree and had to chip out. Game over I thought...

 

I ended up shanking that 63 yard pitch shot into the water and losing with a 6. Full shame and embarrasment as most of the club was there to watch. 

 

I made it my goal that offseason to hit ten thousand 60 yard pitch shots and turn my weakness into a strength. I used kind of a modified clock system (Knee to knee, hip to hip and shoulder to shoulder swings with all my wedges which covered yardages from 50 to 120 or so).

 

I think its honestly a strength for me now. 5 years ago I was a shaky 3 or 4 cap and today I sit the plus one range. 

 

Long story short: If you suck at half or 3/4 wedges its time to get to work. I had a shag bag and hit hundreds of them in a field each offseason. 70 percent of my practice is spent inside 100 now. 

[nitram]

Just because you can hit your 60* 100 yards doesn't mean you should.

 

Wedging your ball is about control and consistency. No matter how hard you try, you are going to have 40-80 yard shots, so you might as well figure out how to hit them. You may not make them an asset in your game but you must find a way to be proficient with them.

 

There are countless books, videos, and instructors that can help you with a game-plan for this inevitable situation. So, as mentioned above, it's time to get to work. You'll be better for it.