Is my steep swing really truly hindering me?

[Nwichert]

Hello, 

I am a three handicap with a steep swing (or so im told, but understanding the golf swing is difficult for me). I get told all the time it's something to fix, but plenty of great players have had steep swings, right? 

Thoughts? Any additional swing tips for me? 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Nwichert

[getitdaily]

Arm overrun

[MPStrat]

 

12 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Arm overrun

Yes.

 

I wouldn’t really call this a steep swing. 
 

Below would be better. Arm swing has to  feel like it’s over at p2 and change of direction has to happen sooner to match. 
 

Edited August 24, 2023 by MPStrat

[getitdaily]

Just now, MPStrat said:

 

Yes.
 

Below would be better. Arm swing has to  feel like it’s over at p2 and change of direction has to happen sooner to match. 
 

Need a face on too. Looks like weight is stacked on the trail side and even outside the trail leg.

[MonteScheinblum]

Steep is not a word I would use for this swing.  
 

Could you benefit from being a little more upright at address?  Yes

 

Could you benefit from getting the vertical hinge set earlier and shortening the arm swing?  Maybe.

 

It bothers me when people who don’t know what they’re looking at criticize other people’s swings when it’s unsolicited.

 

You probably beat all the people who say your swing is steep.

 

 

[MPStrat]

Just now, getitdaily said:

Need a face on too. Looks like weight is stacked on the trail side and even outside the trail leg.

👍 

 

Could be an issue there for sure. Based on what we have dtl and knowing he is a 3 handicap, my guess is that he’s pretty good at finding impact and his late arm lift makes that more difficult. 

[Cwebb]

Your delivery position at P6 isn't steep at all

[Nwichert]

25 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Arm overrun

 

5 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

👍

 

Could be an issue there for sure. Based on what we have dtl and knowing he is a 3 handicap, my guess is that he’s pretty good at finding impact and his late arm lift makes that more difficult. 

 

Can you elaborate on what arm over-run means and what late arm lift means? Although I'm decent at golf im really bad at understanding the swing. I googled it and it appears that I need to shorten the swing and turn my shoulders more? 

 

Are you saying the overrun is the fact my R. arm is up by my head in the back swing? 

[Chunkitgood]

It looks like you might possibly start the transition later than optimum.

 

This may be of interest:

 

 

It may be you find that starting the transition when the shaft is perpendicular or thereabouts has an effect that you might call shortening the swing.

[getitdaily]

16 minutes ago, Nwichert said:

 

 

Can you elaborate on what arm over-run means and what late arm lift means? Although I'm decent at golf im really bad at understanding the swing. I googled it and it appears that I need to shorten the swing and turn my shoulders more? 

 

Are you saying the overrun is the fact my R. arm is up by my head in the back swing? 

Generally, the arms stop when the lead shoulder stops turning. From face on, watch when your shoulder turn stops. That's when the arms should stop or very soon after. 

[MPStrat]

3 minutes ago, Nwichert said:

 

 

Can you elaborate on what arm over-run means and what late arm lift means? Although I'm decent at golf im really bad at understanding the swing. I googled it and it appears that I need to shorten the swing and turn my shoulders more? 

 

Are you saying the overrun is the fact my R. arm is up by my head in the back swing? 

The amount of shoulder turn is fine, the issue is that your arms continue lifting too long after you stop turning your shoulders. This is a characteristic that is common in single digit index golfers. Coupled with that is your change of direction happening late. They match each other but because of that you lose your inclination to the ground through the bottom of the swing. These little things are often the difference between a 3 index and plus 3.

 

[jonsnow]

I think your swing looks great. But I'm far from an expert.

[Nwichert]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

The amount of shoulder turn is fine, the issue is that your arms continue lifting too long after you stop turning your shoulders. This is a characteristic that is common in single digit index golfers. Coupled with that is your change of direction happening late. They match each other but because of that you lose your inclination to the ground through the bottom of the swing. These little things are often the difference between a 3 index and plus 3.

 

Thank you, I will try to work on this! One last question, is this guy describing what you're referring to? 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Nwichert

[MPStrat]

6 minutes ago, Nwichert said:

Thank you, I will try to work on this! One last question, is this guy describing what you're referring to? 

 

 He is talking more about geometry. Your geometry is good, it’s just that your arm swing continues for too long relative to your shoulder turn and your change of direction is too late. 

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, jonsnow said:

I think your swing looks great. But I'm far from an expert.

 

Sure it’s a good swing. Is it good enough to say, “you have maxed out your potential with this move, go putt and chip”?  I don’t think so. But if the op is someone with limited practice time maybe it is. We don’t know much about the situation. Is there room for improvement here? Definitely. 

[Nwichert]

38 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

 

Sure it’s a good swing. Is it good enough to say, “you have maxed out your potential with this move, go putt and chip”?  I don’t think so. But if the op is someone with limited practice time maybe it is. We don’t know much about the situation. Is there room for improvement here? Definitely. 

Definitely appreciate the help as I am trying to max my potential and play competitively in some state amateur tournaments. Appreciate all your comments!

[tthomasgolfer605]

I wouldn't mess with trying to shorten it at all. The clubface position is what I'd look at. It's quite shut and may be grip related. Your flexibility is admirable. Use it. 

[RichieHunt]

Swing looks pretty darn good to me.  I'm jealous.

The only thing I would add is that you have a fairly upright backswing and you're across the line.  There's nothing inherently wrong with either.  In fact, I'd recommend that if you're across the line to do it with a longer backswing like yours.

 

But I see there being a bit of conflict between the two (upright and across the line) that may prevent you taking your ballstriking to the next level.

 

Across the line generally works best with draws.  Upright backswings tend to work much better with fades.  I see this a lot from good juniors I've worked with (I just work on the stats of the game with them, not the swing).  You'll have a very good and talented junior golfer who has a very upright backswing and they force themselves to hit draws because they've had it ingrained in their head that good golfers hit draws and bad golfers hit slices.  

 

This forces them to make some large re-routing in the downswing and other large ranges of motion in the short time of the downswing.  And they'll hit a few too many ugly shots, particularly the dreaded toe-hook and that will kill too many rounds.  Whereas if they just accepted to play a fade they'd not only hit it more accurately and consistently, but probably pick up speed because it's a bit more natural.

 

I'm not saying that you have to play a fade.  You have to figure out what you can do the best and the most consistently.  But I'd suggest if you feel like you can hit draws more consistently then I'd make the backswing a little less upright and get the hands a bit deeper at p4.  If you feel you can hit fades better and more consisently, then I'd work to reduce the amount you are across the line.

 

But don't change your clubface action.  That's really good.

 

 

 

 

RH

[tthomasgolfer605]

58 minutes ago, RichieHunt said:

 

 

But don't change your clubface action.  That's really good.

 

 

The clubface is way too shut. It's literally parallel to his back line at p5. This is square to the arc. 

[KD1]

Compared to modern standards Snead is wide open there, maybe OP is a little shut.

 

[MPStrat]

10 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

The clubface is way too shut. It's literally parallel to his back line at p5. This is square to the arc. 

There is a fairly wide range of acceptability with the clubface. It really depends on the player, their ability, club head speed and skill level. I certainly wouldn’t want the op to have the face stronger than it currently is, and it’s quite possible that a slight grip tweak might help him. 
 

This is absolutely as strong as I’d ever want to see a clubface at this point in the swing:

 

If the OP was a 10 handicap, I would agree that the face needs changed immediately. But for now, I would probably leave this alone. Would need to know a lot more about his game to say definitively. 

 

[getitdaily]

7 minutes ago, KD1 said:

Compared to modern standards Snead is wide open there, maybe OP is a little shut.

 

Compared to all but 1 of the pics you posted, he is MAJORLY shut.

 

The problem with a face as extreme as his is how much his arms have to catch up to his body. He has a slight body stall at the bottom.  With a face that closed, you have to keep rotating (along with a couple other things).  

 

The overall motion is good. But there's some cleanup that will take him to the next level.

Edited August 24, 2023 by getitdaily

[KD1]

5 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Compared to all but 1 of the pics you posted, he is MAJORLY shut 

 

Fair enough, but the example presented as square to the arc compared to these?

I'll hang up and listen.

Edited August 24, 2023 by KD1

[Zitlow]

14 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

The clubface is way too shut. It's literally parallel to his back line at p5. This is square to the arc. 

 

Instead of trying to control the club like the OP, Snead's club freewheels through the ball on it's own volition. 

[getitdaily]

1 minute ago, KD1 said:

 

Fair enough, but the example presented as square to the arc compared to these?

That gets outside my wheelhouse. I understand the range of what things should look like in certain positions. I'll defer to mpstrat there. Generally, the more toe up the more open. The more the toe points down, the more closed..at that position. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

40 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

There is a fairly wide range of acceptability with the clubface. It really depends on the player, their ability, club head speed and skill level. I certainly wouldn’t want the op to have the face stronger than it currently is, and it’s quite possible that a slight grip tweak might help him. 
 

This is absolutely as strong as I’d ever want to see a clubface at this point in the swing:

 

If the OP was a 10 handicap, I would agree that the face needs changed immediately. But for now, I would probably leave this alone. Would need to know a lot more about his game to say definitively. 

 

It's the chicken or the egg thing. Add rotation for a shut face or change the clubface for the amount of rotation he's got. I bet his misses are long left. Just a guess though.

[tthomasgolfer605]

50 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

 

Instead of trying to control the club like the OP, Snead's club freewheels through the ball on it's own volition. 

What I'm gathering from this forum is Snead didn't do it right. I'm waiting for an explanation on how his clubface is way open at P5. 

[virtuoso]

13 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

What I'm gathering from this forum is Snead didn't do it right. I'm waiting for an explanation on how his clubface is way open at P5. 

Snead was awesome but he rolled the grip through impact quite a bit so that face position coming down makes a lot of sense.

[jonsnow]

24 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

What I'm gathering from this forum is Snead didn't do it right. I'm waiting for an explanation on how his clubface is way open at P5. 

Clearly, he was a hack. 

[virtuoso]

54 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

It's the chicken or the egg thing. Add rotation for a shut face or change the clubface for the amount of rotation he's got. I bet his misses are long left. Just a guess though.

Yeah, I may have missed it but did he tell us about ball flight yet? Not sure we want to start moving the face angle around until we know what he does on the course. I'm not sure we know what he means by next level. Looking prettier on video is probably not it.

Edited August 24, 2023 by virtuoso