If score was number 1 priority?

[tatertot]

20 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

1.  Most of the time.

2. Probably.

3. Possibly.

 

Life is full of tradeoffs.

 

The argument has been cogently made by some intelligent people that if you want to learn to strike the ball properly, SGI clubs in general might not be the best way to do it.  Other people disagree.

 

My personal observation is that it is quite possible for golfers who learn by playing  particularly to develop a loft adding swing with low CG irons (whether GI or blades) which they believe makes them a “decent ball striker” but which is in fact at some point a dead end.

 

I look at it this way:  if clubs that are designed to compensate for mishits accomplish that goal (which is itself debatable) they are only helping in the long run people with an essentially sound swing.

 

If you hit every shot on the toe, and you get clubs that compensate for it, what have you accomplished?  You may score better, but so what?

 

Playing well is the goal, scoring well the byproduct.  Clubs that upset that relation are IMO rightly considered perverse.

 

When you speak of ego, the most egotistical thing in golf may be that people think their scores or handicaps matter.

What a bunch of nonsense ... If you don't think your score matters, why play golf? Why play any sport? Go to the driving range and hit "pure" shots to your heart's content.

 

"Clubs that upset that relation are IMO rightly considered perverse." You're trying to hard to get an A in high school English.

 

"You may score better, but so what?" ... uhm, that's the purpose of the game ... 

 

Nevermind, I've been doing it right ... it's the other people that don't understand.

[nsxguy]

41 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

When isn't scoring low the number 1 priority?

 

A - Most of the time ?

 

Mind telling me what the priority is when scoring ISN'T #1 ?

 

TIA

[MountainKing]

50 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

1.  Most of the time.

 

 

 

WHAT? 

[bvanlieu]

9 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

A - Most of the time ?

 

Mind telling me what the priority is when scoring ISN'T #1 ?

 

TIA

 

Anyone gaming a sunday bag comes to mind. 

 

Anyone going out with retro sets for fun/feel.

 

I'vIf money/tournament is on the line I have my goo filled blended players set, my high MOI putter, anything that can help. 

 

IF I just want to hit great feeling clubs, out comes the japanese steel, the mini-mallet milled putter, etc... Of course I am trying to hit it close and make birdies,  but its not the priority. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MelloYello]

If the answer isn't "what's in my signature" then you have mental problems, LOL. 

 

Golf is hard enough without actively trying to subvert your own efforts. Am I not correct? 🙂 

 

I understand the traditionalist crowd who'll bust out the persimmon and knickers for some good old fashion cosplay, but what kind of a backwards person is into golf but thinks the perfect equipment setup reflects only technology developed before...2007? 

 

That's not a healthy human brain, LOL. 

[musicman1951]

First of all, nobody with a 6 handicap is a poor ball striker.  Personally, I'd be much happier with a hybrid than a 4 iron - but that's an individual choice.  You really want to look at where you might pick up a stroke or two, but any club that doesn't fill me with confidence has a short life in the bag.

[R5Two]

If I could stick to a set of equipment I would greatly improve my scoring! 

 

I bounce between blades and sets like T100 or ZX7 for the irons. If I could commit to the little more help the ZX7 give and stop swapping equipment so much I would be better off. 

 

Also, John Daly said that amatures tend to not take enough club (should hit a 7i, but hit an 8i). That would help too. 

[Wayside]

On 8/28/2023 at 4:28 PM, David87 said:

Hi WRX,

Greetings from Denmark.

 

What would your bag consist of if scoring low was your number 1 priority?

 

I am a ~6 handicapper and the below is my current set of clubs:

TSR2 driver

TSI2 3-wood

TSI2 7-Wood

JPX Forged 923 4-PW

Vokey 49, 54, 60

Scotty Cameron Phantom X8.5

 

Sometimes I feel that I could potentially put together a bag that would result i lower scores (if I put my ego aside). 

 

As a example - my TSR2 driver has been cut down to 45", which has helped me to find the center more often. Furthermore, ballstriking is not my strength and for that reason I feel that a hybrid would be better than a 4-iron? 

 

Hit me with your best "I put my ego aside and did this to lower my score" 🙂

I could hit you with lots of stories about how I got customers to put their egos aside and lower their scores, but for me it was just age. 
 

Earlier in the year I found my old Callaway X16PS irons at my parents house and stuck them in the bag to see if I could hit them as well as I did when I was younger. I couldn’t 😝 But I did hit them better than the newer clubs I had. They’re still in the bag while I look for something else. On a LM they go as far, loft for loft, as my modern clubs. 
 

It used to frustrate me that people talk so much BS about their game, and especially their gear, but if they enjoy it, more power to ‘em. I guess this is a gear forum rather than a golf forum, so if having nice clubs is more fun than shooting nice scores to some people, hey, have at it. 
 

Doesn’t mean I won’t still get annoyed by guys I play with who swing at about 80mph and have X-flex Ventus in their driver, but hey ho.

[black bnr32]

Play the ladies tee boxes 😜

[Yacho]

I would play more rounds with my hacker buddies that hand out gimmes from 5ft, as opposed to those stingy SOB's that wanna see it within the leather. 

 

Unquestionably lowers my cap, every time.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Yacho

[toc]

I don't know which is more baffling, the notion of playing golf without having a low score as your main priority, or the staggering lack of reading comprehension demonstrated by some of the replies.

[knock it close]

I have 4 head covers as a 29 year old +1. 

[WristySwing]

On 8/28/2023 at 11:28 AM, David87 said:

Hi WRX,

Greetings from Denmark.

 

What would your bag consist of if scoring low was your number 1 priority?

 

I am a ~6 handicapper and the below is my current set of clubs:

TSR2 driver

TSI2 3-wood

TSI2 7-Wood

JPX Forged 923 4-PW

Vokey 49, 54, 60

Scotty Cameron Phantom X8.5

 

Sometimes I feel that I could potentially put together a bag that would result i lower scores (if I put my ego aside). 

 

As a example - my TSR2 driver has been cut down to 45", which has helped me to find the center more often. Furthermore, ballstriking is not my strength and for that reason I feel that a hybrid would be better than a 4-iron? 

 

Hit me with your best "I put my ego aside and did this to lower my score" 🙂

 

To answer your bolded question, I think most are generally focused on performance.  However, it is quite clear that for the world's largest collection of golf geeks that quite a number of us focus too much on what a club looks like behind the ball or how it feels coming off the face.  If most of us were honest with ourselves, we should look to the LPGA for answers to this.  Of course, there are many who swing faster than them, but I am talking about average male good player swing speed seems to align pretty closely to LPGA stats.  What do a lot of the LPGA players use?  Lighter weight shafts, usually 50g in the driver and something like 80/90 in the irons. Many of them have some sort of hybrid around the 25/26* slot in the bag and have almost all but eliminated long irons from play (there are some exceptions of course).  Lastly, a lot of them are using stronger lofted, player's distance irons like Callaway Apex (not the pros), PXG P, P790/P770, T200/T100-S combos, and so on, and yet somehow remain completely absent of the so-called flier that happens the nanosecond a player who swings faster than 85mph with a 6i sees when they use a 6i with less than 30* of loft.  Weird ain't it?

 

If one were to focus solely on performance, I think many of us would be in something like Wilson LaunchPad or Cleveland Launcher XLs, with 90g steel shafts, larger, high MOI putters, and drivers and woods that might sacrifice 5-10 yards off the tee and fairway but give us a consistent shot shape every single time that launched high and fairly straight instead of trying to squeak out every possible yard of difference or dropping that extra 150 RPMs of spin off our shots.

[jda]

I play nearly every round and every shot to get better.  Score is almost always secondary.  I shoot at every pin then get better getting up and down if I miss.  I try and cut every dogleg learning how to make par from under a tree if I cannot.  This can be somewhat frustrating for my friends since my range last year was like 66 to 84, but it never bothered me.  Plus, I would rather card a few 78s or 80s and have some with under-par on both nines.

 

Other than focus on equipment, focus on how you play and stuff.  Play a round a week teeing off with the clubs that you are not good at and forget that score.  This is how I learned how to hit and hold greens with long irons - take 4 iron off of each tee one round a week and then hit into greens with 6 and 7 instead of 9 or PW, or whatever.  Elite athletes in other sports do this - runners just do not focus on a time every day... they spend days each week sprinting, intervals, endurance, etc.  Then, they put it all together for a good time when they need it.

 

I honestly don't know how you get from a 6 to scratch if your only focus is on the score.  You have to blend scoring with getting better and sometimes getting better is when you are on the course.

 

If you just want to go out and have fun, then most of what is in this thread is probably great.

[blades_are_life]

1 hour ago, toc said:

I don't know which is more baffling, the notion of playing golf without having a low score as your main priority, or the staggering lack of reading comprehension demonstrated by some of the replies.

Well the notion of playing golf without having a low score as your main priority isn't very baffling at all but I suppose a staggering lack of reading comprehension in an inflamed discussion isn't really either.

[blades_are_life]

On 8/29/2023 at 8:12 AM, tatertot said:

What a bunch of nonsense ... If you don't think your score matters, why play golf? Why play any sport? Go to the driving range and hit "pure" shots to your heart's content.

 

"Clubs that upset that relation are IMO rightly considered perverse." You're trying to hard to get an A in high school English.

 

"You may score better, but so what?" ... uhm, that's the purpose of the game ... 

 

Nevermind, I've been doing it right ... it's the other people that don't understand.

Actually the purpose of the game is to have fun.

[jda]

Nobody really cares about winning in the preseason NFL, minor leagues, friendly matches, etc.  If any of you have been around pros in any sport, the goal is always to make it first, get paid second and then win third - this works better in team sports, but it is still true in individual sports... making the cut is more important than winning to nearly everybody in golf... get paid.

 

I think that more folks would get this if the game was not so unique with a built-in welfare system so that nobody has to get better.

[tatertot]

9 minutes ago, blades_are_life said:

Actually the purpose of the game is to have fun.

Golf ... fun? 😅🤣😂😆

 

Oh ... you're serious.

[tatertot]

44 minutes ago, jda said:

I play nearly every round and every shot to get better.  Score is almost always secondary.  I shoot at every pin then get better getting up and down if I miss.  I try and cut every dogleg learning how to make par from under a tree if I cannot.  This can be somewhat frustrating for my friends since my range last year was like 66 to 84, but it never bothered me.  Plus, I would rather card a few 78s or 80s and have some with under-par on both nines.

 

Other than focus on equipment, focus on how you play and stuff.  Play a round a week teeing off with the clubs that you are not good at and forget that score.  This is how I learned how to hit and hold greens with long irons - take 4 iron off of each tee one round a week and then hit into greens with 6 and 7 instead of 9 or PW, or whatever.  Elite athletes in other sports do this - runners just do not focus on a time every day... they spend days each week sprinting, intervals, endurance, etc.  Then, they put it all together for a good time when they need it.

 

I honestly don't know how you get from a 6 to scratch if your only focus is on the score.  You have to blend scoring with getting better and sometimes getting better is when you are on the course.

 

If you just want to go out and have fun, then most of what is in this thread is probably great.

Have you ever heard of practice?

[MelloYello]

One thing that really helped me go forward was joining a private club and meeting tons of people who'd spent their lives (or good portions of them) playing golf. The hallmark of this bunch is that they've all reached a point where they are in control of their life to the point that they play as often as they can. 

 

Some of these people are just golf addicts like me. Others are the type who never had kids and can still have a serious hobby. Others are old enough that their kids are in college (or done with it altogether). Some people played college golf. Some have worked in the golf industry. Others are just the type who wish they could play every single day and carve out as much time for golf as they can. 

 

This competition with other dedicated players forced me to work on my weaknesses and that really added to the fun. It's what helped me get from a 5-7 index down all the way to scratch. Without the constant competition there would be no way to motivated or measure myself.

 

Plus, playing along puts a lot of pressure on oneself. There's nothing to do but ruminate on every mistake. Playing alone is either bliss or it's another disappointing round wherein I made mistakes I wish I hadn't. Part of the point of competition is that it doesn't matter how you play some days. You might play poorly but still do enough to win. That's a big relief that takes pressure off of the grind. 

 

You talk to most of these folks who claim shooting 95 can feel just as fun & rewarding as shooting level par and the notable thing is that most of them play alone or with a small group of people who don't care enough to practice and get better. 

 

I much prefer to "take it seriously" because I don't think you'll ever get better if you're not in a competitive group and ultimately it's proven FAR more fun to be involved, be motivated, be competitive and make friends with these other golf enthusiasts.

 

It's hard to do anything purely for your own ego. Very rarely will I ever make difficult investments in time/effort if not for tangible (external) reasons. 

 

.

Edited August 30, 2023 by MelloYello

[tatertot]

Has anybody on this thread ever done anything competitive in their life?

[jda]

1 minute ago, tatertot said:

Have you ever heard of practice?

 

What do you think that this is?  That stuff that you do with chipping greens, driving ranges and all of that is like the batting cages and taking fly balls off of a fungo - doesn't help a lot in the real deal.

 

Power 5 athletic scholarship.  Got asked if I would sign as a late round draft pick.  Does that count as competitive?  The best competitors that I have been around including millionaire pros compete internally first.  Give my way a shot, then when some jerk thinks that you do not have a purpose and are being cavalier with your game, move out of get-better mode and play every shot to win and absolutely crush them.

 

For example, I spent a whole year learning how to hit up with my driver to get back distance that I lost while aging.  It really sucked for a while, but I stuck with it on the driving range and with every tee shot all year.  Now at almost 50 years, I can average 300 at sea level and a bit more here in Colorado.  If I just did this on the driving range and stuck with the old stuff on the course, then where would I be now.  Is this not competitive?  

[miamistomp]

15 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Has anybody on this thread ever done anything competitive in their life?

 Yes , and then they grew up

[MelloYello]

1 hour ago, jda said:

I play nearly every round and every shot to get better.  Score is almost always secondary.  I shoot at every pin then get better getting up and down if I miss.  I try and cut every dogleg learning how to make par from under a tree if I cannot.  This can be somewhat frustrating for my friends since my range last year was like 66 to 84, but it never bothered me.  Plus, I would rather card a few 78s or 80s and have some with under-par on both nines.

 

Other than focus on equipment, focus on how you play and stuff.  Play a round a week teeing off with the clubs that you are not good at and forget that score.  This is how I learned how to hit and hold greens with long irons - take 4 iron off of each tee one round a week and then hit into greens with 6 and 7 instead of 9 or PW, or whatever.  Elite athletes in other sports do this - runners just do not focus on a time every day... they spend days each week sprinting, intervals, endurance, etc.  Then, they put it all together for a good time when they need it.

 

I honestly don't know how you get from a 6 to scratch if your only focus is on the score.  You have to blend scoring with getting better and sometimes getting better is when you are on the course.

 

If you just want to go out and have fun, then most of what is in this thread is probably great.

 

I'd agree with everything here. I think my scores ranged from 68 to high-80s last year so I'm the same. I play a ton of competitive money game matches on the weekend (usually 2 rounds per week) but I also play a ton of practice rounds where I do my best to work on whatever seems like it needs working on and this includes some bold shots (although admittedly on my course these are just as often lobs/flops in the short game as they are aggressive drives). 

 

But to me, that's all part of scoring. Practice rounds are played most often by people who care about score. I guess there's some discussion of short-term versus long-term thinking but to me, I'm playing to be the guy who shows up as an "A" player in my money games and as someone who's playing to a scratch index throughout the year. 

 

That's all I'm honestly thinking about. I shape my practice, my schedule and my bag around optimizing for that. 

 

That's what I call "caring about score." I wouldn't say being overly bold in a practice round goes against caring about score. 

.

Edited August 30, 2023 by MelloYello

[blades_are_life]

30 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Golf ... fun? 😅🤣😂😆

 

Oh ... you're serious.

I can't tell what you're trying to say here.

 

27 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Have you ever heard of practice?

Well he is describing practice...

[blades_are_life]

2 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

I'd agree with everything here. I think my scores ranged from 68 to high-80s last year so I'm the same. I play a ton of competitive money game matches on the weekend (usually 2 rounds per week) but I also play a ton of practice rounds where I do my best to work on whatever seems like it needs working on and this includes some being bold shots (although admittedly on my course these are just as often lobs/flops in the short game as they are aggressive drives). 

 

But to me, that's all part of scoring. Practice rounds are played most often by people who care about score. I guess there's some discussion of short-term versus long-term but to me, I'm playing to be the guy who shows up as an "A" player in my money games. 

 

That's all I'm honestly thinking about. I shape my practice, my schedule and my bag around optimizing for that. 

You do understand not everyone plays golf to tryhard in money games every weekend right?

[MelloYello]

Just now, blades_are_life said:

You do understand not everyone plays golf to try hard in money games every weekend right?

 

I think most folks go one way or the other. I have friends who value their family time over everything and they've basically slowly given up on golf over the years. 

 

The people who choose to preserve golf in their lives pretty much do so because they love the game and that usually has a lot to do with preserving relationships and being active in some group that organizes regular (competitive) rounds among it's members. Most of these groups are more than 4 guys, mind you. I'm thinking of groups that have text chains and regular tee times and leaders who organize the pairings, etc. So it might be 12 guys or 16 or 20 or what have you. 

 

In my experience, every golfer is trending towards the former (who ultimately gives up on golf) or the latter (because they're addicted to it, LOL). 

 

I also think you're probably taking money games too seriously. It's like saying I'd rather go to the bar with a friend versus going alone. It's just human nature to want to be around others and with a sport the competition is natural.

 

If I were in a billiards league or bowling league it'd be the same. You don't have to be perfect, but you're there because you want to participate and the nature of that is friendly competition. 

 

I think that's generally easy to understand, yeah? 

[tatertot]

8 minutes ago, blades_are_life said:

I can't tell what you're trying to say here.

 

Well he is describing practice...

If you're keeping score, it's not practice.

[tatertot]

24 minutes ago, jda said:

 

What do you think that this is?  That stuff that you do with chipping greens, driving ranges and all of that is like the batting cages and taking fly balls off of a fungo - doesn't help a lot in the real deal.

 

Power 5 athletic scholarship.  Got asked if I would sign as a late round draft pick.  Does that count as competitive?  The best competitors that I have been around including millionaire pros compete internally first.  Give my way a shot, then when some jerk thinks that you do not have a purpose and are being cavalier with your game, move out of get-better mode and play every shot to win and absolutely crush them.

 

For example, I spent a whole year learning how to hit up with my driver to get back distance that I lost while aging.  It really sucked for a while, but I stuck with it on the driving range and with every tee shot all year.  Now at almost 50 years, I can average 300 at sea level and a bit more here in Colorado.  If I just did this on the driving range and stuck with the old stuff on the course, then where would I be now.  Is this not competitive?  

If you had done it the right way, maybe it wouldn't have taken you a year to learn how to hit up on your driver.

[jda]

I play in some of those games and I can always play to shoot a number and forget about getting better.  I do this if some a-hole wants to press for the fourth straight hole... the shoes get tied up and I take some practice swings and look more to middle-side of greens.  Then, if I NEED to make a hard shot, I have hit a million of them before and firing to a back pin on an island green is no problem.

 

Sometimes I am going good and do not need to work on anything.  This is the best.

 

I also will play some good players who get kinda irritated if you want to work on things during a round.  I don't know why since it is OK when they want to do it.  😞  I can play more to score with them.  My regular guys have seen some ochos, but also have seen eleven birds against two bogeys on a brand new course to us, so they kinda have fun with me.

 

I guess to sum this up, I want to be dynamic.  Practice needs to be dynamic.  Play needs to be dynamic.  This has always mattered to me more than clubs, provided that the clubs that you have are competent.