Low handicaps playing with high handicaps

[fjroney]

I'm curious if other scratch / low handicap players have a view on dealing with high handicap players around the greens. 

 

As a public course player I get paired with high handicapped players quite often. Tee to green they don't particularly bother me as I know better than to share a cart and am able to keep to myself and do what I need.

 

When I get to the greens however it's a different story... when playing with low and mid level handicaps I find there's a natural cadence and harmony around the greens - typically the majority of us are marking our balls, reading our putts, and then putting one after another. People know to read their putts while others are doing the same and are ready or near ready to pull the trigger when it's their turn.

 

With high handicap players it's a bit of chaos - often one or more are rushing to hit chips and long putts while I'm trying to approach and mark my ball. I realize they are playing "ready golf" and trying to keep pace while taking a lot of strokes, but it's pretty frustrating to feel like you're boxed out of accessing your own ball and reading your putt. By the time they are done hitting I usually haven't been able to read my putts or clean my ball, and then feel like everyone's eyes are on me while I'm going through the motions, which makes me go faster to try and keep the tempo up. 

 

Essentially, the majority of the variance in my game takes place on the greens, and playing with high handicappers makes it hard to focus there. Curious how others handle - do you rush your putts to maintain momentum? Do you take your time to optimize your score? Do you have a better solution I haven't discovered yet?

Edited September 7, 2023 by fjroney
grammar error

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

Maintain your course, and keep true to your own rhythm. They'll get the message. If they don't, just keep in mind that the message the high capper is constantly receiving is "To play well is to play fast, to play poorly is to play faster."

So they likely have no idea it bothers you that they're trying mightily to not slow you down.

 

[DoughBack18]

I think it depends what you’re trying to get out of your round. If you are playing to post your best score possible, then by all means take your time and go through your routine. If you’re just out to enjoy the day, then go with the flow and understand that maybe you’ll leave a couple shots out there. 
 

I’m in a similar situation as far as playing mostly public courses and I do get paired up with random people every so often. I try to take each round as they come. If i’m playing with guys who have no clue, then i’ll temper my expectations, maybe try to hit some hero type shots or go for some I normally wouldn’t. If i get paired with decent players, i’ll use it to push myself a bit and try to beat their butts by as much as possible.

[elwhippy]

I play with a mix of plus to 20 odd hcp players. The trick is to turn away when they are duffing chips or getting anxious. They are trying their best. The annoying habit is using a distance measuring device and proudly stating it is 165 yards. Before skanking it 110 yards into a pond. If you want to shoot a low score, pick a more competitive group. 

[Denny100]

I play with people of all abilities and the biggest denominator to how the day goes is if everyone gets on well or not together. Vast majority of times, everyone does.

 

Its not so much handicap dependent.

 

It tends to be the higher handicaps that rush i think, and feel a natural inclination to "get out of the way" of the lower handicapper.

 

If you feel rushed....take your time, go through your routine and do whats necessary on your putts if youre playing for a score.

[Rocky Ball-boa]

Chances are they're also rushing a bit so to not slow you down, as they realise they're taking a lot more time overall than you.

Just ask them, straight up - "is it OK if I mark my ball first so I can get ready?"

99% they're gonna appreciate it as well. Everyone wins.

[Port and Starboard]

14 hours ago, fjroney said:

With high handicap players it's a bit of chaos - often one or more are rushing to hit chips and long putts while I'm trying to approach and mark my ball. I realize they are playing "ready golf" and trying to keep pace while taking a lot of strokes, but it's pretty frustrating to feel like you're boxed out of accessing your own ball and reading your putt. By the time they are done hitting I usually haven't been able to read my putts or clean my ball, and then feel like everyone's eyes are on me while I'm going through the motions, which makes me go faster to try and keep the tempo up. 

 

I deal with this every day and not just from high handicappers.  Our association has 91 members with 91 different individual perspectives on etiquette, and mixing ready golf with order of play.

 

My experience is slightly different from yours.  I think all the chaos begins at the tee boxes and just builds from there.

 

Here's a scenario that plays out in my association quite often.

 

1. It's hard for some teams to play ready golf off the tee boxes when you have a mix of skill levels and age groups.  Once in a while we'll have one player hitting from the tips, one on the regulars, and two seniors hitting off the front tees.  Guys are spending their time sitting in their carts in the shade out of the way. 

 

2. By time we get our balls in the fairway (hopefully)  on many holes, there's the obligatory hunt for another player's ball while the team behind us is already standing on the tee box waiting for us to clear.

 

3. Once we have all have made out approach shots to the green is where fun really begins. 

 

4.  There's always that one player that has to meddle around in his bag for before walking up to the green.   Another player with two bad knees who can barely walk the slopes onto the greens.  Maybe one player not paying attention at all.  Meanwhile, someone bellies his pitch shot knee high 10 yards over the green and we wait even longer.   There is generally one player who is already stressed out waiting.

 

5.  By time we get to hitting putts, everyone all of a sudden becomes aware that we are slowing up play and there is a mad rush to putt out. Order of play goes right out the window. Quite often, our better players are just as guilty as the high handicappers.

 

Three weeks ago, we had 5 handicapper who wasn't paying attention and putted his ball from 20 feet while a 19 handicapper was putting from about a 45 foot putt at the same time.  The 19 handicapper's ball was about 1/2 way to the hole when the 5 handicapper putted.  The balls collided about 2 feet from the cup and a heated argument breaks out between the 5 and 20 handicapper. The 5 handicapper blamed his brain fart on the 19 handicapper for being slow?  Luckily we are all good friends and their tempers subsided after a couple holes. 👍

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Port and Starboard

[Denny100]

I think at least part of the solution to all of these issues is, unless the format specifies it, just ban the fourball.

 

I know its never going to happen because the space on the course has to be utilised, but most of the problems seem to stem from the size of group, and the inevitability within the group that people will be different pace wise, and mess up as well.

 

Chances are in a group of 4, someone, whether good bad or whatever will mess up every hole between them in some way.

[bcjim]

15 hours ago, fjroney said:

I'm curious if other scratch / low handicap players have a view on dealing with high handicap players around the greens. 

 

As a public course player I get paired with high handicapped players quite often. Tee to green they don't particularly bother me as I know better than to share a cart and am able to keep to myself and do what I need.

 

When I get to the greens however it's a different story... when playing with low and mid level handicaps I find there's a natural cadence and harmony around the greens - typically the majority of us are marking our balls, reading our putts, and then putting one after another. People know to read their putts while others are doing the same and are ready or near ready to pull the trigger when it's their turn.

 

With high handicap players it's a bit of chaos - often one or more are rushing to hit chips and long putts while I'm trying to approach and mark my ball. I realize they are playing "ready golf" and trying to keep pace while taking a lot of strokes, but it's pretty frustrating to feel like you're boxed out of accessing your own ball and reading your putt. By the time they are done hitting I usually haven't been able to read my putts or clean my ball, and then feel like everyone's eyes are on me while I'm going through the motions, which makes me go faster to try and keep the tempo up. 

 

Essentially, the majority of the variance in my game takes place on the greens, and playing with high handicappers makes it hard to focus there. Curious how others handle - do you rush your putts to maintain momentum? Do you take your time to optimize your score? Do you have a better solution I haven't discovered yet?

I don't understand.  Just mark your ball when you get to the green and putt when it's your turn.  Hackers aren't going to care if you walk on the green while they are still hitting chips or whatever. 

[bellview17v2]

I play with the home boss who scores in the upper 90s and our local group scores about the same. I have just have to learn to watch look and enjoy being outside and not at work...

[mshills]

14 minutes ago, bcjim said:

I don't understand.  Just mark your ball when you get to the green and putt when it's your turn.  Hackers aren't going to care if you walk on the green while they are still hitting chips or whatever. 

This. Just mark your ball, clean it, and read your putt while the other players are playing. OP should be doing that anyhow, so I reckon I don’t understand the issue here. 
 

OP, did you also say you know better than to share a cart with a higher handicap player? Do you walk, or do you insist on having your own cart?

[Denny100]

8 minutes ago, mshills said:

This. Just mark your ball, clean it, and read your putt while the other players are playing. OP should be doing that anyhow, so I reckon I don’t understand the issue here. 
 

OP, did you also say you know better than to share a cart with a higher handicap player? Do you walk, or do you insist on having your own cart?

 

I guess theres got to be some kind of structure to whats going on though.

 

The people who are walking up to the hole to mark are probably going to block the read of the person further away so that doesnt help sometimes.

 

Balls probably need to be cleared away from landing areas for chips and pitches at times.

 

I can understand how things end up getting messy and rushed as people are never really sure whos away at any given moment if everyone is just doing their own thing.

 

I play with higher handicappers quite a bit and in my experience, even when told otherwise just to relax and enjoy themselves, they feel duty bound to get out of the lower handicappers way, rather than just play the game in a structured, orderly format.

 

Also with the carts and walking, i never use a cart and the vast majority of people dont here on courses around me. The people who do need a cart for somewhere to store the beer sadly.

[Kai Slater]

I consider it a "W" if the scratch player is able to tolerate my mid/high handicap game.  I just try to keep pace and stay out of their way

[fjroney]

51 minutes ago, mshills said:

This. Just mark your ball, clean it, and read your putt while the other players are playing. OP should be doing that anyhow, so I reckon I don’t understand the issue here. 
 

OP, did you also say you know better than to share a cart with a higher handicap player? Do you walk, or do you insist on having your own cart?

I don’t use a cart, I walk. It’s why I have little to no issue tee to green. I generally can’t mark my ball and read my putt in these situations because there’s never a time when the rest of the group is going through the same motions. Realistically I’m boxed out by 3 others players who are inching closer by chipping and hitting long putts. So while they are circling the cup with 2-3 shots each / 6-9 total shots which usually doesn’t give me a window to mark my ball and properly read my putt. I don’t even look from both sides, I just want to walk my line

[Denny100]

Just now, fjroney said:

I don’t use a cart, I walk. It’s why I have little to no issue tee to green. I generally can’t mark my ball and read my putt in these situations because there’s never a time when the rest of the group is going through the same motions. Realistically I’m boxed out by 3 others players who are inching closer by chipping and hitting long putts. So while they are circling the cup with 2-3 shots each / 6-9 total shots which usually doesn’t give me a window to mark my ball and properly read my putt. I don’t even look from both sides, I just want to walk my line

 

I can understand where you are coming from. 

 

Would it be better if you were ALWAYS first to putt and finish? and then after that, the other three can do what they want and inch up on the hole?

[third-times-a-charm]

Wear a helmet

[fjroney]

3 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

I can understand where you are coming from. 

 

Would it be better if you were ALWAYS first to putt and finish? and then after that, the other three can do what they want and inch up on the hole?

I don’t think so - I don’t want to hold everyone up and would be rushing. Sometimes I’ll do this if I get to the green first while they’re dealing with cart parking etc, but I think outside of that it would be a bit rude. 

[david.c.w]

Dealing with distractions and variance is all part of the game in any sport.  You need to sharpen your mental game.

[PJE]

It doesn’t matter to me what poor players do. Except, I watch their shots to help find lost balls. 
I hope they hit good shots but if they don’t, well that’s  just how it went. 
Most poor players are trying their best at a hard game. 

Patience is a virtue.   
 

Edited September 8, 2023 by PJE

[dfeldss]

I Think you either accept that sometimes it' affect your score a few strokes and that's just the way she goes

 

or 

 

Say "fellas, i genuinely appreciate that we're keeping pace but let's slow it down on the greens here. Ready golf everywhere else " or something to that effect. There might be a couple bad eggs that get miffed about, but I find most people to be pretty reasonable

[Ewood808]

It doesn't matter to me what any other player is doing regardless of handicap. I'm out there having fun playing my game of golf. I frequently play as a single (+.3) and get paired with randoms of all skill sets. The only thing that will bother me is poor attitude such as throwing clubs constantly cursing etc. When I feel others are rushing to get out of my way inevitable hurting their score I tell them to take their time and not to rush. I'll always go through my routine especially around the greens, since I don't get time to practice, playing is my practice and I need to build constant routine reps. I played this past weekend with two buddies they shot 113, 108 to my 76 and I had a great time. 

 

Tee boxes and ready golf in the fairways are where I see most time lost with high handicappers. Topped balls, wild slices into trees, then taking too much loft for a punch out and taking 4 shots to get out from the trees. I would try to remember they're golfing to have fun like you are, if it's no longer fun, take a break and reset or find another group. The high caps aren't enjoying the blading the ball back and forth over the green either. 

[Albatross Dreamer]

1 hour ago, fjroney said:

I don’t use a cart, I walk. It’s why I have little to no issue tee to green. I generally can’t mark my ball and read my putt in these situations because there’s never a time when the rest of the group is going through the same motions. Realistically I’m boxed out by 3 others players who are inching closer by chipping and hitting long putts. So while they are circling the cup with 2-3 shots each / 6-9 total shots which usually doesn’t give me a window to mark my ball and properly read my putt. I don’t even look from both sides, I just want to walk my line

When I'm walking I typically start looking at the green when I'm 50ish yards away, as sometimes you can get a better view of the slopes and contours. By the time I'm at my ball I generally have a pretty good idea what the line is, as most public courses don't have crazy green set ups (maybe yours are different). I also don't worry about traditional "etiquette" in terms of who should be going first in these rounds. If some dude is chipping from 30 yards away I'll get ready and then go when there's a pause.

 

Overall, people in IL are pretty chill with things, Chicago area might be different than where I'm at though haha.

[755i]

I am a little more advanced than the guys/friends I play with all the time (low - mid 80's with some 70's and high 80's mixed in). When appropatie, I am encouraging them to slow down when it gets tough and especially around the greens.

We all encourage eachother and I think they have learned some etiquette stuff from me. Do they mess up on the etiquette at times, sure. Do I care? Not at all. I may point out some egregious things, but not in front of the whole group and at the proper time (not after they duff a shot). They are always appreciative for the tips. I do wish they watched their balls a little better, but I know truly watching your ball and its resting place comes with time. That would be the only thing I could gripe about because I saw their ball and feel obligated to help them out and it can take away from my concentraiton, especially when I'm struggling.

My biggest positive takeway for the year is that these guys are hunting and fixing ball marks on every green, not just their own. I assume it was from watching me do that on every green since we started playing together because they weren't initally.

[MelloYello]

I try my best not to play with higher handicaps in casual rounds. 

 

Truth be told it's just kind of poisonous. It ruins your flow and knowing where their head is at, they probably don't care or "get" why you care anyway. 

 

As someone who cares about my performance and has to play reasonably well within my primary group(s), I can't afford to play golf that I know will be bad. It's counter productive in those casual practice rounds where I might play with someone who's a distraction.

 

The fact is, it's better for my game if I flat out don't play and just wait until my next tee time. It's like saying a car accident will make you stronger or that suffering through some tragedy will be worth it. No, it won't. 

 

If it's your buddy do what you can. Accommodate that person. But don't ever feel like you owe it to the world to sacrifice for those who aren't appreciative of what you're doing. 

 

All these WRXers who talk about what a mental game golf is ought to be fairly understanding here. If golf is such a mental game, why am I expected to permit someone to come in and dump on that, especially if golf is just a joke to them? 

 

I think in an ideal world, we'd all be good enough to play our best regardless of the circumstance. But that's not how humans work. I'm certainly not there yet as a golfer and as far as I can tell, there are just things I'll never get beyond, people who I'll never really get on with who've worn out their welcome.

 

All that said, I'm happy to play higher handicaps in tournaments because there is a certain decorum and I know they're not going to be openly distracting.

 

In short, if you're meeting me half-way, I'm happy to play with you.  

 

 

.

Edited September 8, 2023 by MelloYello

[shankasaurus rex]

I'm a new golfer, and currently a high handicapper. There's probably a lot of things at play here. Obviously, they're frustrated. Golf is frustrating for the newbs, particularly around the greens. They want to play well, and just can't. Trust me, they're more frustrated than you are.

 

Also, as new golfers or very casual golfers, they may not know what the procedure is. That's where an experienced player can speak up and say, "lemme mark this real quick and I'll get out of your way," or whatever applies. Good communication really helps in these situations, and can help them in being more at ease and aware in the future. I've played with a few very skilled golfers, and learned a lot from the ones who communicated well and without attitude.

 

Then there's the elephant in the room: play fast. As a new player, particularly one in the forums, Reddit, etc., you are hammered constantly with the demand to play as fast as possible. Ready golf. No practice swings. No lines on balls. No reading greens. Tuck and roll out of the moving cart with five clubs to get to your ball as fast as possible. No thought, no analysis, just play as fast as humanly possible, knowing that the foursome behind you is incensed at their round taking 4 hours and 1 minute. At 2 minutes, they're openly debating quitting golf. I mean, my god, a decade ago they used to play this track in 34.34363 minutes, walking, shoeless, while crafting their own balls out of downed trees.

 

I'm exaggerating here (slightly), but you get the point. I don't think you get to have it both ways. If the community's overarching message for the high-handicap golfer is "play fast," then you have to anticipate rushing. Good communication and a good attitude can help mitigate the issue somewhat, but otherwise you need to either get used to it or make more low handicap friends.

[Ironman_32]

17 minutes ago, shankasaurus rex said:

I'm a new golfer, and currently a high handicapper. There's probably a lot of things at play here. Obviously, they're frustrated. Golf is frustrating for the newbs, particularly around the greens. They want to play well, and just can't. Trust me, they're more frustrated than you are.

 

Also, as new golfers or very casual golfers, they may not know what the procedure is. That's where an experienced player can speak up and say, "lemme mark this real quick and I'll get out of your way," or whatever applies. Good communication really helps in these situations, and can help them in being more at ease and aware in the future. I've played with a few very skilled golfers, and learned a lot from the ones who communicated well and without attitude.

 

Then there's the elephant in the room: play fast. As a new player, particularly one in the forums, Reddit, etc., you are hammered constantly with the demand to play as fast as possible. Ready golf. No practice swings. No lines on balls. No reading greens. Tuck and roll out of the moving cart with five clubs to get to your ball as fast as possible. No thought, no analysis, just play as fast as humanly possible, knowing that the foursome behind you is incensed at their round taking 4 hours and 1 minute. At 2 minutes, they're openly debating quitting golf. I mean, my god, a decade ago they used to play this track in 34.34363 minutes, walking, shoeless, while crafting their own balls out of downed trees.

 

I'm exaggerating here (slightly), but you get the point. I don't think you get to have it both ways. If the community's overarching message for the high-handicap golfer is "play fast," then you have to anticipate rushing. Good communication and a good attitude can help mitigate the issue somewhat, but otherwise you need to either get used to it or make more low handicap friends.

All true. 

 

I'd say the fast part comes in multiple ways. If you're a high handicapper or beginner, you time hit more shots (or mishit more shots) so maybe less time looking for lost balls or lining up the putt for a 7 (no offense). It all depends how long and how many shots. If you take 2 minutes each shot but only hit 3-4 shots a hole, that's different than someone who takes 2 minutes takes 6/7/8 shots a hole. 

 

To be fair, if I book a random round, usually pace is decent, I think people get it. 

[Ajota]

1 hour ago, shankasaurus rex said:

I'm a new golfer, and currently a high handicapper. There's probably a lot of things at play here. Obviously, they're frustrated. Golf is frustrating for the newbs, particularly around the greens. They want to play well, and just can't. Trust me, they're more frustrated than you are.

 

Also, as new golfers or very casual golfers, they may not know what the procedure is. That's where an experienced player can speak up and say, "lemme mark this real quick and I'll get out of your way," or whatever applies. Good communication really helps in these situations, and can help them in being more at ease and aware in the future. I've played with a few very skilled golfers, and learned a lot from the ones who communicated well and without attitude.

 

Then there's the elephant in the room: play fast. As a new player, particularly one in the forums, Reddit, etc., you are hammered constantly with the demand to play as fast as possible. Ready golf. No practice swings. No lines on balls. No reading greens. Tuck and roll out of the moving cart with five clubs to get to your ball as fast as possible. No thought, no analysis, just play as fast as humanly possible, knowing that the foursome behind you is incensed at their round taking 4 hours and 1 minute. At 2 minutes, they're openly debating quitting golf. I mean, my god, a decade ago they used to play this track in 34.34363 minutes, walking, shoeless, while crafting their own balls out of downed trees.

 

I'm exaggerating here (slightly), but you get the point. I don't think you get to have it both ways. If the community's overarching message for the high-handicap golfer is "play fast," then you have to anticipate rushing. Good communication and a good attitude can help mitigate the issue somewhat, but otherwise you need to either get used to it or make more low handicap friends.

 

The biggest thing I try to teach friends who are fairly new to golf which helps pace of play is the etiquette around the greens.

 

One thing I noticed with a friend group I play with often for the newer guy is just teaching him where to place the golf cart closer to the next hole, take your putter with you if you got a chip, if you're greenside and not sure if you're in the sand take that extra wedge just in case ect.

 

Those little things alone IMO make a MASSIVE difference so they aren't just running around blindly to keep up. 

[jholz]

I play with a lot of muni hacks, so tons of experience with this. 

 

Most often, if things are going properly, the highly skilled player should be closest to the hole on any given round of shots - therefore, you will typically be hitting last in any round of shots. 

 

On and around the greens, this just equates to having a ton of time to look at the shots. When the hacks are done, I'm ready to go. 

[shankasaurus rex]

To my point, the two posts responding directly to mine so far relate to improving pace of play. Valid? Maybe, but it goes to demonstrate where the community is placing its priorities. That's fine, but then expect new golfers and casual golfers to focus more on moving fast than worrying if the scratch golfer they got paired with is experiencing his best mental space to maintain his handicap. 

 

 

[MelloYello]

12 minutes ago, shankasaurus rex said:

To my point, the two posts responding directly to mine so far relate to improving pace of play. Valid? Maybe, but it goes to demonstrate where the community is placing its priorities. That's fine, but then expect new golfers and casual golfers to focus more on moving fast than worrying if the scratch golfer they got paired with is experiencing his best mental space to maintain his handicap. 

 

 

 

Let the "play fast" crowd keep on screaming into the abyss, haha. They're like the guy banging on his steering wheel and honking when it's bumper to bumper. They're just talking to each other. Nobody whose perspective is taken seriously would ever suggest golfers go out there and play as fast as possible. 

 

That said, I think golf is one of those things around which we form social bonds. But that doesn't mean we don't care about how we play. We want golf to help strengthen those bonds, right? So I want to support and be supported by those with whom I play.

 

As far as being someone who helps others play their best, I think it's just about being a considerate person. Sometimes that means don't slow people down. It can just as easily mean don't rush people. 

 

The folks who demonstrate good etiquette all learned it by paying attention. The folks who constantly upset others clearly don't pay attention (or notice) what they do and probably never will. 

 

This is why I say, don't expect people to change. They won't. Find people you like and if you're forced to play with someone with whom you don't jive either suffer through it or bail. Golf is hard enough before we start asking ourselves to play our best in the worst of circumstances be it weather, sickness, pressure, inconsiderate playing partners, etc. They're not all equal, but they all exist. 

 

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