Is the PGA Tour at a loss or at a crossroad?

[GrandStranded]

12 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

The missing of a few players is a false narrative. Perpetrated by factions out there with a hidden agenda. 

Edited February 26 by GrandStranded

[Titleist99]

25 minutes ago, King_Slender said:

Here's the thing - outside the majors, PGA Tour viewership has always been driven by the top players being in competition or not.  People like to see a final round matchup with Rory and Koepka or DJ and Spieth fighting to win and they will tune in.

 

When a bunch of the top guys have left for LIV, the possibility of that happening is lower.  Rory or Scheffler trying to win over Chris Kirk or Nick Dunlap just doesn't hit the same.

Well, maybe I'm easily entertained because I thoroughly enjoyed the underdog wins and the PGAT redemption stories.  

 

Also, kudos to Patty for winning in Thailand. Golf this weekend was glorious.🤣 

[Maine Golfer]

Everyone has a right to a view. 

 

The golf channel is gloom and doom about the PGA and that is feeding a lot of this. 

[Titleist99]

8 minutes ago, Maine Golfer said:

Everyone has a right to a view. 

 

The golf channel is gloom and doom about the PGA and that is feeding a lot of this. 

I was thinking the exact same thing this morning. 

[Maine Golfer]

Its totally fine if you don't like the weeks with less top players, but I mostly dig it. I can enjoy people Im just learning about battle for the win (last weekend) or the top 20. 

[GoGoErky]

48 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Well, maybe I'm easily entertained because I thoroughly enjoyed the underdog wins and the PGAT redemption stories.  

 

Also, kudos to Patty for winning in Thailand. Golf this weekend was glorious.🤣 

Agree. If there’s drama coming down the stretch. Leaderboard tight with a few holes left. That’s fun golf regardless who the name is. 

[bekgolf]

3 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

I was thinking the exact same thing this morning. 

 

TGC went downhill years ago.  IIRC it was about the same time that NBC purchased them.  They used to have the Grey Goose hour, a fantastic studio in Florida, The Big Break, Breaking 100, 90, 80, 70, entertaining shows like that.  Now they have two guys in a studio for hours doing work from home interviews with people we don't care about.

[Maine Golfer]

 Rex and Lav would quit tomorrow if college football or NFL coverage hired them OR HGTV was hiring for a BBQ / grilling show

 

I don't dislike them, I find it amazing on the Golf Channel podcast when its really really clear they dont have views on many weeks of PGA action.

 

 

[grm24]

26 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

TGC went downhill years ago.  IIRC it was about the same time that NBC purchased them.

NBC didn't purchase GC. GC was placed under the NBC Sports umbrella/management after Comcast, who has outright owned GC since 2003, purchased NBC Universal in 2011. 

Edited February 26 by grm24

[bekgolf]

Just now, grm24 said:

NBC didn't purchase TC. GC was placed under the NBC Sports umbrella/management after Comcast, who has owned GC since 2003, puchased NBC Universal in 2011.

 

Thanks for the info, looks like I had the downfall backwards.  I still long for TGC of old.  I can remember AP in the studio giving a putting lesson.  He said that 100% of short putts don't go in.  Lol.

[miami1023]

It's the age of the influencer and sports are entertainment. Viewers tune in for the players. There's a reason that Drive to Survive sparked an onslaught of professional sports reality shows like Break Point, Quarterback, and Full Swing: everyone wants to see the personalities. In a game that promotes conforming to norms as much as golf it's rare that you find a big personality that penetrates the mainstream and brings the game to a new audience. AK was arguably the last since Tiger to deliver as golfer and celebrity. Rory is a grouch, Scheffler has the star power of a toothpick, and Max Homa (one of the few PGA tour players with a semi interesting media personality) is an unrecognizable name to most of the general public. Sports are and have always been about the stars. Today's game requires so much dedication to get to the top that most players don't have a personality off the course. The game is lacking characters with charisma and pizzazz. The Trevino's and Daly's of yesteryear are no longer. If the PGA tour wants to grow it needs mold breakers not robots. 

[grm24]

7 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

Thanks for the info, looks like I had the downfall backwards.  I still long for TGC of old.  I can remember AP in the studio giving a putting lesson.  He said that 100% of short putts don't go in.  Lol.

GC was better in the past. All of NBC Sports has cut back so much it's impacting all of its coverage. In part due to how much money the NBC part of Comcast's empire is losing their rear since the launch of Peacock. Nearly 3 billion alone in 2023.

[RobS]

1 hour ago, King_Slender said:

 

Hockey, Tennis

Tennis is an example of what golf is trending towards but it's not necessarily positive.  There are 60+ tournaments a year on the ATP Tour.  The best players are playing in 15-20 events.  There many of which have no players inside the top 50 and some not even top 100.

[bekgolf]

12 minutes ago, miami1023 said:

It's the age of the influencer and sports are entertainment. Viewers tune in for the players. There's a reason that Drive to Survive sparked an onslaught of professional sports reality shows like Break Point, Quarterback, and Full Swing: everyone wants to see the personalities. In a game that promotes conforming to norms as much as golf it's rare that you find a big personality that penetrates the mainstream and brings the game to a new audience. AK was arguably the last since Tiger to deliver as golfer and celebrity. Rory is a grouch, Scheffler has the star power of a toothpick, and Max Homa (one of the few PGA tour players with a semi interesting media personality) is an unrecognizable name to most of the general public. Sports are and have always been about the stars. Today's game requires so much dedication to get to the top that most players don't have a personality off the course. The game is lacking characters with charisma and pizzazz. The Trevino's and Daly's of yesteryear are no longer. If the PGA tour wants to grow it needs mold breakers not robots. 

 

Not so much in golf.  I don't see the golf fan following "influencers".

[grm24]

2 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

Also,  now coverage is so fractured on so many different networks it is difficult to watch all the tournaments you want to without having to sign up with a few different subscriptions. That is why I like watching LIV tournaments, no commercials. 😀

Hard to have commercials when literally no advertisers want to be part of the product. The PGA Tour is on NBC, CBS and Golf Channel. The same 3 television networks they have been on for years. 

[Pepperturbo]

After recently listening to Golf Channel announcers poo pooing the PGA, many friends and I are all but fed up.  Part of the problem is that the general golf media subtlety knocks the PGA, and the other factor is that youngsters on tour don't know what is right and good, much less which way is up.  All many of them care about is riding in a private jet.

 

Transparency has done one thing, shows PGA leadership is steering the vehicle towards a cliff, only they are not smart enough nor strong enough to see what's ahead.  Sponsors are going to get harder to find, TV viewers and gallery count will fall off, as a result, cost of advertising will continue to increase only corporate America will say return on their investment is no longer worth it.   The PGA will be a larger version of the LPGA, stumping for sponsorship at all substance cost.

 

The only long-term solution is divesting itself of character and charitable giving, to get into bed with worldwide corporate socialism and Bonzo's dirty money.  Sad.

[subrew]

20 minutes ago, grm24 said:

Hard to have commercials when literally no advertisers want to be part of the product. The PGA Tour is on NBC, CBS and Golf Channel. The same 3 television networks they have been on for years. 

 

I normally watch on YT or the CW App, but last event I just had it on the actual CW channel, so I got to see some of the commercials.  They even had little intros to commercials with "LIV Golf on the CW brought to you by Progressive Insurance....." and then would roll into a Progressive commercial.  Same for Sketchers, featuring the commercial with Matt Fitz and Brooke Henderson.  Ping had advertisements too.  

 

Luckily, the commercial breaks are still spaced out a solid 30 minutes apart, and are usually just 4-6 actual commercials.  So it's not a complete commercial fest.  

[Maine Golfer]

Yeah one more time, I can't stand the golf channel bashing the PGA. The golf channel is the worst of both worlds. Thought it could ignore Liv, so now it puts down the PGA. Put people on the golf channel who have passion for golf please. How does it help the golf channels bottom line to get people against watching more PGA? I don't get it 

[smashdn]

On 2/21/2024 at 12:04 PM, Titleist99 said:

Also:

 

LIV Fans: Golfers should be able to play where they want.

 

Also LIV Fans: No one plays on our tour unless given a contract by Greg or a sham regulation.

 

 

First post prior to this one you mischaracterized.  LIV fans typically enjoy the LIV broadcast because it shows more shots and thus "more golf" when compared to the traditional network broadcasts of the other tours.  It is not a PGAT unique thing that the broadcast is dullish.

 

And now what I quoted above:

 

LIV Fans: Golfers should be able to play anywhere they have earned a place to play.

 

A big distinction between just showing up and playing where you want and playing where you have earned a right to play.  PGAT has small field events where you need to earn your way into the field right?  Sentry TOC and the other "premiere" events.  

 

LIV is a completely different set-up due to the team aspect of it.  There has to be continuity of players and teams event to event for it to work.

 

I don't really care for the wild card or free agent portion of it myself.

[miami1023]

47 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

Not so much in golf.  I don't see the golf fan following "influencers".

Look at the popularity of YouTube golfers, they are essentially golf's version of influencers and have subscriber bases in the millions.

[SlothofDespond]

48 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

Not so much in golf.  I don't see the golf fan following "influencers".

 

There's a bunch of YouTube and Snapchat content getting a lot of eyeballs that disagrees. I'm sure more too on other platforms I'm not as familiar with.

 

I probably watch more YouTube golf content than actual professional tournament play at this point.

 

So, I dunno, maybe you're not really feeling the pulse anymore.

[smashdn]

On 2/22/2024 at 12:16 PM, Titleist99 said:

What people fail to realize is that the PGAT does not sell any particular player. they sell the PGAT as a whole. Their product is a vast variety of superb golfers. No one player is bigger than the tour. (maybe Tiger, but that's up for debate). 🙂🙂

 

The PGAT sells hopes, dreams, and the trials and tribulations of the underdog trying to reach the pinnacle of the sport. It sells wholesomeness that the sponsors love.

 

The Tour has a product that 99% of its viewing audience plays themselves. Stay the course until another Tiger comes along.😆😆

 

The PGATs only goal is its 6-year plan to enhance the Media deal from $7B to $10B. The loss of a few players won't affect that at all, by then the cabinet will be full again.

 

~Just my thoughts.

 

Especially now that there is not one particular player worth selling.

 

"until another Tiger"  <Exactly.  They rode that wave and I don't blame them one bit.  I am just not sure what there succession plan was/is.

[Titleist99]

5 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

 

First post prior to this one you mischaracterized.  LIV fans typically enjoy the LIV broadcast because it shows more shots and thus "more golf" when compared to the traditional network broadcasts of the other tours.  It is not a PGAT unique thing that the broadcast is dullish.

 

And now what I quoted above:

 

LIV Fans: Golfers should be able to play anywhere they have earned a place to play.

 

A big distinction between just showing up and playing where you want and playing where you have earned a right to play.  PGAT has small field events where you need to earn your way into the field right?  Sentry TOC and the other "premiere" events.  

 

LIV is a completely different set-up due to the team aspect of it.  There has to be continuity of players and teams event to event for it to work.

 

I don't really care for the wild card or free agent portion of it myself.

I do understand that. LIV and the PGAT are two totally different products, in my mind.

[bekgolf]

4 minutes ago, miami1023 said:

Look at the popularity of YouTube golfers, they are essentially golf's version of influencers and have subscriber bases in the millions.

 

2 minutes ago, SlothofDespond said:

 

There's a bunch of YouTube and Snapchat content getting a lot of eyeballs that disagrees. I'm sure more too on other platforms I'm not as familiar with.

 

I probably watch more YouTube golf content than actual professional tournament play at this point.

 

So, I dunno, maybe you're not really feeling the pulse anymore.

 

Do you think YT and other steaming content is taking away from PGA Tour viewership?  IMO those of us who watch PGA golf do so for the competition and to see shots that would be once a season for most of us. 

 

I've watched a few of the Rick Shiels series and they are entertaining but they aren't taking the place of tournament golf.

[Maine Golfer]

Part of the jam the PGA has is the chance of another Tiger or Jack are VERY LOW. 

[Titleist99]

2 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

Especially now that there is not one particular player worth selling.

 

"until another Tiger"  <Exactly.  They rode that wave and I don't blame them one bit.  I am just not sure what there succession plan was/is.

Tiger will play the Majors, compete in his tournament, and sprinkle some Champ tour events until the age of 65, then cross over the Swilcan bridge waving goodbye to golf.

[smashdn]

1 minute ago, bekgolf said:

Do you think YT and other steaming content is taking away from PGA Tour viewership? 

 

I know you didn't ask me directly but I'll offer up my opinion.  

 

If it is, it is probably a very little amount.  I think you have some population of viewers who just need/want a golf "fix."  I sort of count myself in that group.  I like watching golf but have so many other obligations on weekends I am not devoting much time to it then.  On the other hand YT is always there and I can watch when I have the free-time to if I wish.  For me it is a flexibility thing not just in terms of timing but also in terms of content.  I enjoyed the PGAT when they went to interesting (to me) courses.  Riviera I count as one.  Old White was another.  I can go find GD and Ron Whitten on YT and get my golf and course "fix" in about 15 minutes.

 

I also find some of the various "challenges" (old clubs, limiting clubs, etc.) more interesting as it tends to force those guys who do it (who are pretty talented golfers) to hit some uncomfortable shots.  I just don't get much thrill out of watching a pro hit it from 120 in the middle of the fairway.  I like those crazy recovery shots where they are really using their imagination or working the ball or both.

[subrew]

22 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

I know you didn't ask me directly but I'll offer up my opinion.  

 

If it is, it is probably a very little amount.  I think you have some population of viewers who just need/want a golf "fix."  I sort of count myself in that group.  I like watching golf but have so many other obligations on weekends I am not devoting much time to it then.  On the other hand YT is always there and I can watch when I have the free-time to if I wish.  For me it is a flexibility thing not just in terms of timing but also in terms of content.  I enjoyed the PGAT when they went to interesting (to me) courses.  Riviera I count as one.  Old White was another.  I can go find GD and Ron Whitten on YT and get my golf and course "fix" in about 15 minutes.

 

I also find some of the various "challenges" (old clubs, limiting clubs, etc.) more interesting as it tends to force those guys who do it (who are pretty talented golfers) to hit some uncomfortable shots.  I just don't get much thrill out of watching a pro hit it from 120 in the middle of the fairway.  I like those crazy recovery shots where they are really using their imagination or working the ball or both.

 

Pretty much how I am.  3-5 years ago, I would watch about 3-5 hours of golf in a week.  I rarely watch any Tour coverage on Th or Friday, but would tune in for some Saturday and Sunday stuff.  But I wasn't sitting on the couch waiting for the final group to tee off on 1, then sitting through 4.5-5 hours of play with 137 commercials thrown in.  But I followed thee tour, because that was the main content.  YT golf was much more about golf clubs reviews and lessons.  Less full 9 and 18-hole vids.  

 

 

 

Now, I get a bulk of my golf fix in 20-60 minute chunks throughout the week courtesy YT.  Just watched a Peter Finch vid at lunch while I ate some leftovers.  TXG will likely have some content tomorrow I'll watch in the morning.  Many of the YT people now have regular series or at least airing times that are pretty consistent, so you know something is coming out say Friday.  I watch a lot of this while I'm in the shop building clubs, or tinkering with tools.  By the time the weekend comes around, I've had my fill of golf content, or have a few YT vids saved up.  

 

I should also mention, I'm more of a morning person.  I wake up early, golf early, and I'm usually in the shop by 9-10am.  So many times, the PGAT event is happening, but coverage hasn't started.  The Golf channel won't start showing it until 11am pst, and it moves over to CBS or NBC at Noon.  By then I've already watched 1-2 hours of golf content on YT while I've worked.  So I'm not turning on CBS and watching four more hours.

 

That has meant I rarely watch more than about 30-60 minutes of PGAT action on Sunday.  I caught the last three holes in Mexico, that was all of the PGAT I watched this weekend.  I watched a fair bit of LPGA action, because it was during primetime west coast time being an event in Thailand.

 

So without a doubt, for me, my PGAT watch time has gone down considerably, and it is almost entirely because I get golf content on YT.  

Edited February 26 by subrew

[miami1023]

14 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

 

Do you think YT and other steaming content is taking away from PGA Tour viewership?  IMO those of us who watch PGA golf do so for the competition and to see shots that would be once a season for most of us. 

 

I've watched a few of the Rick Shiels series and they are entertaining but they aren't taking the place of tournament golf.

Well to be fair the PGA tour has taken note considering that they're having a qualifier and giving away a spot to a YouTuber for the Myrtle Beach Classic. Personally I don't think that's fair to the guys grinding out Monday qualifiers every week but I think that similar ideas could help the tour grow. It's a shame to see what they did with the Pebble Pro/Am. It used to be fun watching the likes of Bill Murray and Jason Bateman tee it up but instead they replaced it with a two day format and massive buy in that only attracts corporate bigwigs. If they could replace a snooze fest event with a Pro/Am that attracts fun celebrities/YouTubers and top pros it would definitely be a hit.

[miami1023]

I should mention that the abysmal live coverage of the PGA tour is not helping at all. Watching on Thursdays and Fridays requires about 2 streaming subscriptions and a lot of patience that ends up with you not even seeing the groups you want to see. Once you get to Saturday and Sunday you have the big networks covering barely half day of which the coverage itself barely shows any of the real golf until the last few holes.