Is the PGA Tour at a loss or at a crossroad?

[kiwigolf72]

1 minute ago, Dutch1008 said:

🤣 You think the LIV attendance and viewership numbers are going to justify a company besides Aramco into supporting that money hole of a tour?

 

Trust me, your rich Daddy is going to get tried of subsidizing a tour that gets outdrawn by the Good Good Desert Classic.  

YouTube golf is having a bigger impact on the younger generation than the PGAT and LIV, IMO.

[Rapidcat]

9 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

🤣 You think the LIV attendance and viewership numbers are going to justify a company besides Aramco into supporting that money hole of a tour?

 

Trust me, your rich Daddy is going to get tried of subsidizing a tour that gets outdrawn by the Good Good Desert Classic.  

 

We'll see.

[pingbling23]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

Also:

 

LIV Fans: Golfers should be able to play where they want.

 

Also LIV Fans: No one plays on our tour unless given a contract by Greg or a sham regulation.

what?  liv fans are saying this?  you think liv fans wouldnt want all the best players in the world to create teams and play in liv events?  this thread has long jumped the shark.  so many hyperbolic, bad faith, and just down right false things getting posted.  common sense would say that it would be these "paid by liv posters" doing this but its coming hardcore from one side.  

[grm24]

20 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

Agreed on this. The exemption list is super extensive and I think they could combine some of the categories. Also just learned that a top 125 non-member has a higher priority ranking then someone who finished top 10 in the previous week 🤡

So the two members in that category this year this year, Min Woo Lee and Nicolai Hojgaard, who earned their tour card/exempt status last season as non members should have a lower priority than some non exempt player who had a great week? Do you actually understand the criteria that Min Woo and Nicolai earned their tour status? It deserves a higher priority than a player who was hot for one event. 

 

Edited February 21 by grm24

[Dutch1008]

15 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

YouTube golf is having a bigger impact on the younger generation than the PGAT and LIV, IMO.

 

I agree. But I can see youtube ultimately being a gateway drug. It gets people into the funnel. For some it will be a passing phase until they find the next thing. For some it will become a lifelong hobby. Some will start watching the majors. Some will become full fledge sickos and start watching every tournament, commenting on message boards, and have strong opinions about the present and future of golf.  

 

To me it's no different then throwing a 6 y/o into flag football, teeball, or youth soccer. Some will become obsessed and follow the sport for life. Others will tell their parents after the 1st practice that (insert activity here) just isn't for them. 

[RSLP]

https://www.pgatour.com/article/news/latest/2024/02/21/charlie-woods-to-compete-in-pre-qualifier-for-cognizant-classic-in-the-palm-beaches

[BobMorris]

On 2/20/2024 at 6:50 AM, ksher84 said:

My biggest gripe with watching PGA is that it's annoying to have to hop from app to app/channel to channel to watch

I'd rather have to hop from ESPN+ to Peacock to (CBS/NBC)...than to have no early coverage channel to hop to at all. We are now essentially getting wire to wire coverage Thurs-Sun.....and somehow this is perceived as a negative? Not from where I sit. I'm old enough to remember back 9 Thurs-Fri coverage on USA channel for only specific events, if we were lucky.

 

I much prefer the current scheduling to the good old days.

[ahenderX]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

Just wondering what the SSG has to do with decisions made on the PGAT....?

 

I thought that they were affiliated with the new company PGAT Enterprises.

That’s true. It’s my understanding all financial-related decisions will be made by PGAT Enterprises. That’s the meat and potatoes of the Tour’s success going forward. Making money, keeping players, fans, and sponsors/advertisers happy. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, Rapidcat said:

Just make the PGAT a closed tour eg only for Americans.

 

You can watch all your boys in your timezone.

 

The rest of the golf world can then get on with global golf.

 

 

Why would the PGAT do that? If you want to be a premier golf tour, you want to attract the best of the best worldwide to come play for you. The PGAT became that because they offered better purses and a better playing situation than other tours. They were able to do it because the economics & demographics support it. 

 

You can go create your global golf tour. Create a tour that is so enticing that it can attract top players without having to give them 8- or 9-figure contracts up front. 

 

 

Or they won't. Because maybe global golf just isn't going to work. Remains to be seen. 

 

But don't ask the PGAT to artificially restrict their product just to help yours. 

[stinger_gc]

34 minutes ago, grm24 said:

So the two members in that category this year this year, Min Woo Lee and Nicolai Hojgaard, who earned their tour card/exempt status last season as non members should have a lower priority than some non exempt player who had a great week? Do you actually understand the criteria that Min Woo and Nicolai earned their tour status? It deserves a higher priority than a player who was hot for one event. 

 

That was a typo on my end. I thought the “Top 10” previous week exemption was higher on the priority list. You can blame tv for that. 

[wedgegame]

21 hours ago, Golfinfloridaafter40 said:

Lmao! This is my point. The mods do nothing about people like this, that go out of their way to cause problems, but punish honest people who actually contribute facts. 
 

It is what it is!  

 

Literally your first post in this thread was not factual: 

 

"The PGA viewership has been going down every year, but many people on here want to ignore this as if it isn't happening."

 

Sources to the contrary: here, here & here.

 

But don't let that get in the way of your narrative, it's easy to assume nothing you say is in good faith anyways.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, wedgegame said:

 

Literally your first post in this thread was not factual: 

 

"The PGA viewership has been going down every year, but many people on here want to ignore this as if it isn't happening."

 

Sources to the contrary: here, here & here.

 

But don't let that get in the way of your narrative, it's easy to assume nothing you say is in good faith anyways.

Well done. I think that his credibility is pretty well shot around these parts.🤣

 

There's a faction that's trying to convince us that no one is watching PGAT golf.😆

[kiwigolf72]

Just now, Titleist99 said:

Well done. I think that his credibility is pretty well shot around these parts.🤣

 

There's a faction that's trying to convince us that no one is watching PGAT golf.😆

there is a faction that's telling people that's the only thing to watch.

[Titleist99]

4 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

there is a faction that's telling people that's the only thing to watch.

No, there's a faction out there telling people to watch whatever makes them happy.....

 

The market will decide what is sustainable/

[Togatown22]

3 hours ago, kiwigolf72 said:

there is a faction that's telling people that's the only thing to watch.

If one cares about watching real competition, that is true. 

[puttingmatt]

PGA tour has become too watered down .  LIV has cherry picked some top players, and what is left on the PGA have not turned into ratings, and more importantly, dominating performance.  Where are the stand out players ?  

Seems like the top ten players would capitalize on where the tour is  now.

[smashdn]

On 2/20/2024 at 4:52 AM, naval2006 said:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-tour-slump-west-coast-swing-2024

 

According to this  Golf Digest article the PGA Tour isn’t having the best of time. 
 

Personally, I haven’t watched golf on tv for a while. Last Sunday I saw Hideki’s closing holes and I thought his shots were the only thing worth showing. I found the broadcast dull, a few players were shown and mostly there’s a general lack of color. Perhaps it’s me, but I didn’t find any motivation to keep watching and have a good time with a beer, some comments with my son and Hideki at the prize ceremony. 
 

Several colorful stars are gone, players try to be politically correct all the time, no juicy postgame interviews. The hottest news during the west swing was the drunk rowdy crowds at the WM. 
 

I may sound as disappointed as the Golf Digest article so it’d be good to pop in and exchange opinions. 

 

AS IT APPEARS TO ME...

 

I would say crossroads.  They may pull it out of the dive but will level off at a much lower level.  They have a lot of things going against them.

• Tiger aging is A#1.  He was the straw that stirred their drink.
• Additional competition on the landscape of "golf entertainment."  LIV, Youtube, Instagrams, Facebooks, etc.  If I want to watch golf, right now, I can find it somewhere other than GC, NBC and CBS.
• Their broadcast has not been kept up-to-date.  It is dull.  It is filled with everything other than golf shots.
• The courses they go to, outside of pebble, riviera and a few others, are not memorable, have little to no history and just hold little interest.
• The "names" that are left, aren't playing well as a group.
• Golf is still an old, white mans game.  That demo can't float your boat much longer.

Edited February 22 by smashdn

[Titleist99]

39 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

I would say crossroads.  They may pull it out of the dive but will level off at a much lower level.  They have a lot of things going against them.

• Tiger aging is A#1.  He was the straw that stirred their drink.
• Additional competition on the landscape of "golf entertainment."  LIV, Youtube, Instagrams, Facebooks, etc.  If I want to watch golf, right now, I can find it somewhere other than GC, NBC and CBS.
• Their broadcast has not been kept up-to-date.  It is dull.  It is filled with everything other than golf shots.
• The courses they go to, outside of pebble, riviera and a few others, are not memorable, have little to no history and just hold little interest.
• The "names" that are left, aren't playing well as a group.
• Golf is still an old, white mans game.  That demo can't float your boat much longer.

PGAT Golf is Just fine.

[GoGoErky]

49 minutes ago, puttingmatt said:

PGA tour has become too watered down .  LIV has cherry picked some top players, and what is left on the PGA have not turned into ratings, and more importantly, dominating performance.  Where are the stand out players ?  

Seems like the top ten players would capitalize on where the tour is  now.

You might want to read these as they say otherwise 

 

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/pga-tour-2023-season-us-tv-viewers-audience-ratings-nbc-cbs-golf-channel/?zephr_sso_ott=dlvLGG

 

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2023/08/29/cbs-sports-tv-pga-tour-numbers-up/
 

https://www.paramountpressexpress.com/cbs-sports/releases/?view=108402-cbs-sports-coverage-of-2023-pga-tour-season-sets-viewership-milestones-across-platforms#:~:text=For the season%2C CBS averaged,2022 (2.545 million viewers).

[GoGoErky]

6 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

PGAT Golf is Just fine.

Yup and posts on this page have links that show that as well as a few pages bag showing their billion dollar revenue

[PedronNiall]

49 minutes ago, puttingmatt said:

PGA tour has become too watered down .  LIV has cherry picked some top players, and what is left on the PGA have not turned into ratings, and more importantly, dominating performance.  Where are the stand out players ?  

Seems like the top ten players would capitalize on where the tour is  now.

 

It would be prudent to actually look at the ratings numbers before you comment. They're even posted in the thread, so how you missed them I don't know, but your hot take is baseless on that front. 

 

As to the top ten players capitalizing, it seems you're unaware of how deep the fields are now. What Tiger did was otherworldly and is almost impossible to repeat because with fitness, fitting, data-driven swing & strategy analysis, and ridiculously tight quality control over equipment, parity at the top of the game has never been tighter. Anyone can win almost any week because these guys are good and they all know their game. Problem with your setup? We'll get you on 3D and check you against your old captures--done for Charley Hoffman at TPI. Your putting of? Let's try you in something else--guys experiment a bit alongside measured testing and show up within a short time with something that matches their natural tendencies, a la Willy Z going to a Lab and remaining competitive right after his return. 

 

Golf will have very few who dominate for long because of the level of continual, absolute peak play that would require. 

[Titleist99]

1 minute ago, GoGoErky said:

Yup and posts on this page have links that show that as well as a few pages bag showing their billion dollar revenue

They're trying hard to convince people that LIV is the greatest thing that happened to golf. Paying someone $600M to play team golf is still a losing proposition.🤣

 

They're just trying to generate some eyeball on their product in the hope that we'll flip like Rory.  🤣 Nice try!

[smashdn]

13 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Yup and posts on this page have links that show that as well as a few pages bag showing their billion dollar revenue

 

So you can find links to support your position.

[GoGoErky]

2 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

They're trying hard to convince people that LIV is the greatest thing that happened to golf. Paying someone $600M to play team golf is still a losing proposition.🤣

 

They're just trying to generate some eyeball on their product in the hope that we'll flip like Rory.  🤣 Nice try!

They really are. It’s amusing to read the arguments. Not sure anyone could flip like Rory. 

[GoGoErky]

3 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

So you can find links to support your position.

Links are literally posted on this page and i replied to another member with them. You are free to read them or skip them again 

[Titleist99]

20 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

You might want to read these as they say otherwise 

 

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/pga-tour-2023-season-us-tv-viewers-audience-ratings-nbc-cbs-golf-channel/?zephr_sso_ott=dlvLGG

 

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2023/08/29/cbs-sports-tv-pga-tour-numbers-up/
 

https://www.paramountpressexpress.com/cbs-sports/releases/?view=108402-cbs-sports-coverage-of-2023-pga-tour-season-sets-viewership-milestones-across-platforms#:~:text=For the season%2C CBS averaged,2022 (2.545 million viewers).

You better keep these links handy. PGAT misinformation is at a feverish pitch. 🤣

Edited February 22 by Titleist99

[GoGoErky]

2 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

You' better keep these links handy. PGAT misinformation is a feverish pitch. 🤣

Especially from those who choose to not read other posts before they reply

[BlackDiamondPar5]

10 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

You better keep these links handy. PGAT misinformation is at a feverish pitch. 🤣

Bookmarked 😁

[subrew]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

I would say crossroads.  They may pull it out of the dive but will level off at a much lower level.  They have a lot of things going against them.

• Tiger aging is A#1.  He was the straw that stirred their drink.
• Additional competition on the landscape of "golf entertainment."  LIV, Youtube, Instagrams, Facebooks, etc.  If I want to watch golf, right now, I can find it somewhere other than GC, NBC and CBS.
• Their broadcast has not been kept up-to-date.  It is dull.  It is filled with everything other than golf shots.
• The courses they go to, outside of pebble, riviera and a few others, are not memorable, have little to no history and just hold little interest.
• The "names" that are left, aren't playing well as a group.
• Golf is still an old, white mans game.  That demo can't float your boat much longer.

 

I've never been one to sit down and just watch televised golf for 5+ hours a day.  It's more of a turn on the TV because I know golf is on while I'm doing other stuff, and I'll watch the last 30-45 minutes of it looks like a good finish.  I get excited about the majors, I enjoy up and comers winning for the first time, I enjoy veteran players shooting 62 to come from behind.  I watch all sorts of different "brands" of golf, from PGAT to LPGA, LET, DP, LIV, and YT golf.  I'm incredibly brand agnostic about all things in my life.  I've owned about a dozen different brands of cars, and my current golf bag has five different brands in it.  I just don't have any loyalty at all to large mega corporations.  I don't have feelings about being loyal to the PGAT anymore than I have feelings about being loyal to Ford or Target or Wells Fargo.  

 

This past weekend is a perfect example of how my golf viewership has slanted over the past couple years.  A few years back I would have watched Genesis over multiple days, and watched the finish.  But for whatever reason this year, I watched a total of about 55 minutes of coverage.  It was mid round on Saturday, and I had it up on the shop TV while I was prepping shafts and swingweighting some Adams irons I was building.  It was 55 minutes of near solid commercials, puff pieces, and very little actual golf shown.  Between commercial breaks I took a break to sip coffee, and they showed exactly three golf shots, then went back to commercial.  

 

I switched it off, hit the YT App, and put on a Bryan Bros and Jon Rahm vid.  A little over an hour of zero commercial content I enjoyed while I built clubs.  When it finished, I put up a Peter Finch vid where he got a top of bag fitting with Trottie at The Kingdom.  

 

So I'm probably watching a similar amount of golf content from a time perspective, but PGAT golf is becoming less and less of it.  I'm not sure I'll watch more than 5-10 minutes of the Mexico event this weekend.  But we did have the LPGA event from Thailand on last night while we cooked, ate, and I did a few chores.  

 

[TiScape]

15 hours ago, Togatown22 said:

If one cares about watching real competition, that is true. 

Ur not wrong. I was watching the video of Rahm that someone posted with the National Enquireresque title, and some Fat Perez stuff last night. It’s an entertaining watch for sure, but definitely not a replacement for a real tournament. I’m in the camp of it doesn’t have to be one or the other. That said, the YouTube stuff reminds me of stuff like the old And1 mix-tape basketball videos. Amazing players that aren’t quite top tier pro level good, but are an entertaining addition to the NBA. 

Edited February 22 by TiScape