Is the PGA Tour at a loss or at a crossroad?

[pgapromex]

8 hours ago, TiScape said:

Someone needs a screen name change! May I suggest, hmmmm, hold on, IDK….

livpromex??? JAT 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

🤣

You do understand that PGA of America is not the same as PGA tour right?  I belong to the one that runs the Ryder Cup and PGA championship, not the one run by a greedy overpaid garden knome named Jay who thinks he owns pro golf.

Edited February 27 by pgapromex

[BlackDiamondPar5]

10 hours ago, pgapromex said:

Hmmm let's see...

 

DJ, Rambo, Deshampoo, Koepka vs Knapptime and the 8 nobodies on a boring flat resort course.

 

It's a tough one 😳

And yet nobody watches the star studded exhibition. That's okay, the circus and ice capades aren't what they used to be either🤣

[Maine Golfer]

My new proposal is have the Saudi's buy The Golf Channel.  

[DutchGolf]

The commercial load is killing the PGA Tour I imagine.

 

So here in Europe I have commercial free PGA Tour coverage via Discovery/Eurosport, and when the US broadcast goes to commercial a UK commentator steps in. It seems like the UK commentator is more active than the 'local' US broadcasting team. Sometimes its 2 teeshots, 3 putts, and back to commercials. I cannot imagine how people watch such a broadcast. 

 

You need good coverage that people want to watch, with a close final 18/9 leaderboard on an interesting course, preferably some good storylines and interesting commentators. That does not require having the same people up there all the time. The DP World Tour is often a better product than the PGA Tour. LIV is just unwatchable. 

Edited February 27 by DutchGolf

[MaineMariner]

I'll certainly agree that the TV product is frustrating. It's not really a golf or a PGA Tour problem, it's an American sports broadcasting problem. Golf is treated in the same exact way that NBC treats the Olympics - broadcasters feel that they can't just present the product on its own. There must be narratives and there must be angles and big splashy graphics packages. Pre-recorded pieces set the story and are integral to the production.

 

It's maddening if you are a somewhat informed viewer. The number of times that the sport is replaced by a full-screen graphic with some half-cocked stats will drive you nuts ("Here's a list of Tom Brady's record in playoff games when trailing in the 3rd quarter, with a big picture of Tom Brady next to it"). 

 

The networks think we're too stupid to watch sports without the hand holding. Maybe they're right 😔.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, Maine Golfer said:

My new proposal is have the Saudi's buy The Golf Channel.  

Where would the Saudis get content?.......

 

Now on the other hand, if the PGAT purchased the Golf Channel, that might work.🤣

 

I already proposed that but haven't heard back from the PGAT. I suspect that they'd need a few more investors for that.😀

 

 

[Titleist99]

21 minutes ago, MaineMariner said:

I'll certainly agree that the TV product is frustrating. It's not really a golf or a PGA Tour problem, it's an American sports broadcasting problem. Golf is treated in the same exact way that NBC treats the Olympics - broadcasters feel that they can't just present the product on its own. There must be narratives and there must be angles and big splashy graphics packages. Pre-recorded pieces set the story and are integral to the production.

 

It's maddening if you are a somewhat informed viewer. The number of times that the sport is replaced by a full-screen graphic with some half-cocked stats will drive you nuts ("Here's a list of Tom Brady's record in playoff games when trailing in the 3rd quarter, with a big picture of Tom Brady next to it"). 

 

The networks think we're too stupid to watch sports without the hand holding. Maybe they're right 😔.

The Networks are right. Sports are an entertainment product first and should be treated as such. That's why they have Pre-game shows, half-time shows. etc...

[bcjim]

It is maddening. Surely though, they know what schemes both attracts maximum eyeballs and maximum revenue.

 

I can only imagine that the fluff attracts/captures those beyond the the hardcores (who they take for granted as willing to watch anything).

 

Then they put in as many ads as the data indicates will not drive away more than X% of viewers.

 

I will say that the commercial load seems at times to lighten up late on Sunday in order to show all or most of the critical shots in a close tournament.

[bscinstnct]

No crossroads,

 

Just by far (pretty much exclusively) the most elite development pipeline and commercial process/org to bring the best golf talent to golf fans

 

The “last mile” of how it gets to viewers will evolve, streaming etc

 

But, the pga tour is how golf talent develops to the pro level, and is then enjoyed by golf fans

 

 

 

[Togatown22]

23 hours ago, Stevens24 said:

Like it or not you have 30-35 players that would be on the tour on LIV which opens those spots to players who are really Korn Ferry level. Imagine if both sport say baseball fielded 6 teams of triple A players. Not very captivating. 
 

And no one watches when Carolina plays Arizona either

Correct.  One more good reason not to make pro golf a team sport.  Well said!

[jdl]

GOOCH! The guy who thought he could play 1 LIV event and then go back to the PGA Tour has thoughts.... 🤣

 

 

And by "some of the best players" he means...

 

Talor Gooch!

 

And maybe Beau Hossler.

Edited February 27 by jdl

[geauxt]

23 minutes ago, jdl said:

GOOCH! The guy who thought he could play 1 LIV event and then go back to the PGA Tour has thoughts.... 🤣

 

And by "some of the best players" he means...

 

Talor Gooch!

 

And maybe Beau Hossler.

Such a joke of a comment

[One Putter]

5 hours ago, pgapromex said:

You do understand that PGA of America is not the same as PGA tour right?  I belong to the one that runs the Ryder Cup and PGA championship, not the one run by a greedy overpaid garden knome named Jay who thinks he owns pro golf.

-calls others greedy

-thinks people should be paid unfathomable sums for doing nothing

 

Yeah ok

Edited February 27 by One Putter

[Pops99]

30 minutes ago, jdl said:

GOOCH! The guy who thought he could play 1 LIV event and then go back to the PGA Tour has thoughts.... 🤣

 

 

And by "some of the best players" he means...

 

Talor Gooch!

 

And maybe Beau Hossler.

And here I thought DeChambeau was the biggest idiot on that tour. Seems I was mistaken. 

[One Putter]

By the way, the belief that PGA Tour players are greedy but liv players aren't is a classic example of doublethink.

[Maine Golfer]

2 minutes ago, One Putter said:

By the way, the belief that PGA Tour players are greedy but liv players aren't is a classic example of doublethink.

Nope

 

I respect the best people's right to make top dollar. Rahm or DJ can play like s*** and they still pay him whatever he signed for.  On the PGA the Fedex Cup winner could be Rory, Matthieu Pavon, even Nick Dunlop.  They will pay the top money out to the person who wins!

 

 

 everyday Joes who start lowering their performance at work over time, do they keep their salary or get raises? 

 

No

 

 

This isn't some simple issue of people being "sad" golf stars are very rich, its about entitlement. 

[One Putter]

3 minutes ago, Maine Golfer said:

Nope

 

I respect the best people's right to make top dollar. Rahm or DJ can play like s*** and they still pay him whatever he signed for.  On the PGA the Fedex Cup winner could be Rory, Matthieu Pavon, even Nick Dunlop.  They will pay the top money out to the person who wins!

 

 

 everyday Joes who start lowering their performance at work over time, do they keep their salary or get raises? 

 

No

 

 

This isn't some simple issue of people being "sad" golf stars are very rich, its about entitlement. 

I think liv players are the ones who are greedy.

 

Edited February 27 by One Putter

[tssgj65]

17 minutes ago, geauxt said:

Such a joke of a comment

Says Gooch who didn't attempt to qualify for the US Open in 2023 as he wasn't exempt....

[Maine Golfer]

You dont address my point. Its greedy to demand top money and not earn it

[bekgolf]

53 minutes ago, jdl said:

GOOCH! The guy who thought he could play 1 LIV event and then go back to the PGA Tour has thoughts.... 🤣

 

 

And by "some of the best players" he means...

 

Talor Gooch!

 

And maybe Beau Hossler.

 

 

Did he agree to his image being used however it was seen fit by his keepers?  Just wondering because I don't think he came up with that on his own.

[WorkItBothWays]

59 minutes ago, jdl said:

GOOCH! The guy who thought he could play 1 LIV event and then go back to the PGA Tour has thoughts.... 🤣

 

 

And by "some of the best players" he means...

 

Talor Gooch!

 

And maybe Beau Hossler.

His argument is baseless as all the best players are still qualified for Augusta. Every other day one of these defectors is running off at the mouth. The person they should directing their ire towards is Greg Norman as he clearly convinced them of things that he couldn't guarantee or are they all really as stupid as they seem. The whole thing is boring now and the PGA Tour is doing just fine.

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, bcjim said:

It is maddening. Surely though, they know what schemes both attracts maximum eyeballs and maximum revenue.

 

I can only imagine that the fluff attracts/captures those beyond the the hardcores (who they take for granted as willing to watch anything).

 

Then they put in as many ads as the data indicates will not drive away more than X% of viewers.

 

I will say that the commercial load seems at times to lighten up late on Sunday in order to show all or most of the critical shots in a close tournament.

100%. A lot of thought goes into their programming.

[grm24]

21 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

 

Did he agree to his image being used however it was seen fit by his keepers?  Just wondering because I don't think he came up with that on his own.

It's a Getty Images photo. 

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

No crossroads,

 

Just by far (pretty much exclusively) the most elite development pipeline and commercial process/org to bring the best golf talent to golf fans

 

The “last mile” of how it gets to viewers will evolve, streaming etc

 

But, the pga tour is how golf talent develops to the pro level, and is then enjoyed by golf fans

 

 

 

100% correct, and it seems that the PGAT is accelerating the process with the state of the game under threat. PGA tour university, ten players from the DPWT, KFT grads, etc.....

 

The star-making factory is working overtime.....

[bekgolf]

6 minutes ago, grm24 said:

It's a Getty Images photo. 

 

Fine but do you think he came up with the words and thought behind the words on his own?

[grm24]

1 minute ago, bekgolf said:

Fine but do you think he came up with the words and thought behind the words on his own?

No idea. IMO he likely has issues remembering his name on a daily basis. Probably wears one of these all the time as a reminder.

 

 

 

[PedronNiall]

 

A single tweet from the Tour has drawn almost as many eyeballs as a LIV broadcast. That has to hurt.

 

 

 

Imagine mostly new kids on the block pulling in numbers comparable to your billion+ dollar roster. Hilarious 😂 

 

 

Imagine one player's highlights doing the twice the numbers of one of your number limited event's final round. Let's not even talk about the comparison if we just look at the drawing power of a 17 minute video to a condensed one that should appeal to today's shorter attention spans. 

 

 

If the Tour has a problem then, LIV is a poor soul tied to the third rail with a nail-covered anvil rapidly approaching from above. I think I know which camp I'd rather be in if viewership is a measure of the ROI, which is the case if you're trying to run a sustainable commercial entity. 

[ducky50]

I follow golf as much as the next person but I had no idea who Knapp is and several golfers on the leaderboard. I did know who Sami was because I follow the DP tour.  The PGA has a major issue if the big name players aren't in contention week after week no one will be watching.

[betarhoalphadelta]

8 minutes ago, ducky50 said:

I follow golf as much as the next person but I had no idea who Knapp is and several golfers on the leaderboard. I did know who Sami was because I follow the DP tour.  The PGA has a major issue if the big name players aren't in contention week after week no one will be watching.

 

That's been pretty much the modern history of the PGA Tour. There's always been an unwritten "pecking order" of tournaments and big names tended to cluster around specific tournaments and generally not spend much time on the others. Some PGA tournaments were effectively "alternate field" events when they were the only tournament the PGAT hosted that week. The creation of the Signature Events just sorta makes that a written pecking order instead of unwritten. 

 

The PGA Tour isn't quaking in their boots for lack of a star-studded leaderboard at the Mexico Open. They realize the draw won't be as big as some other events. But that's ok. Not every single week needs to be that. LIV tries to make every tournament that, but they only have 14 per year. So they're not having the "big name players in contention" week to week given that 38 weeks out of the year they're not hosting tournaments. 

 

But what these tournaments like the Mexico Open do is allow those players who aren't yet big names to become them. I also had no idea who Jake Knapp was before this tournament. Now I do, because he won. That doesn't make him a "big name" player yet, but he's now played his way into the Signature Events. Hell, what happens if he wins one (or two) of those? Then some guy neither of us had ever heard of is a "big name" come the 2025 season. 

 

That's how a merit-based tour works. If you're good enough to qualify, you're in. If you're then good enough to win some of your starts, you become a name. Win some more (or a major or two) and you're a star. 

 

It remains to be seen whether Jake Knapp is a nobody who will fade away back to obscurity, or whether he's a future star. But he's now a name I'll at least be tracking going forward to see which way it falls. 

[bcjim]

15 minutes ago, ducky50 said:

I follow golf as much as the next person but I had no idea who Knapp is and several golfers on the leaderboard. I did know who Sami was because I follow the DP tour.  The PGA has a major issue if the big name players aren't in contention week after week no one will be watching.

But this has not been the case.  As I indicated in another thread, all players can't possibly play every week and some tournaments therefore will have fields lacking some star power. That in no way means they are bad tournaments nor does it any way diminish any other tournament. You can watch or not. Its a free country.   Maybe play with your liv action figures and forget your troubles for a while.