Is the PGA Tour at a loss or at a crossroad?

[Ferguson]

I believe calling it either at a crossroads or at a loss, is a narrow view.  A lack of approach and direction is different than a slump.  It appears as though the PGA is stuck without a roadmap.  And let's face it, the current number one player in the world (stump) is not moving the needle and won't sell tickets. 

 

It reminds of the video of the old woman that flipped a queen size mattress by herself.  

Being stuck can sometimes result in a new approach. 

[Titleist99]

What people fail to realize is that the PGAT does not sell any particular player. they sell the PGAT as a whole. Their product is a vast variety of superb golfers. No one player is bigger than the tour. (maybe Tiger, but that's up for debate). 🙂🙂

 

The PGAT sells hopes, dreams, and the trials and tribulations of the underdog trying to reach the pinnacle of the sport. It sells wholesomeness that the sponsors love.

 

The Tour has a product that 99% of its viewing audience plays themselves. Stay the course until another Tiger comes along.😆😆

 

The PGATs only goal is its 6-year plan to enhance the Media deal from $7B to $10B. The loss of a few players won't affect that at all, by then the cabinet will be full again.

 

~Just my thoughts.

[Zitlow]

The tour needs more Chez Reavie's to spark fan excitement. 

 

[SurfDuffer]

I turn on a PGA event and the names I want to see aren't there.  They are on that other tour.  The PGA Tour shot itself in the foot.

[bcjim]

56 minutes ago, SurfDuffer said:

I turn on a PGA event and the names I want to see aren't there.  They are on that other tour.  The PGA Tour shot itself in the foot.

Uh-huh

[PedronNiall]

1 hour ago, SurfDuffer said:

I turn on a PGA event and the names I want to see aren't there.  They are on that other tour.  The PGA Tour shot itself in the foot.

Why don't you show us a few figures that make Rahm worth half a billion in up front money. The Tour couldn't have produced anywhere near the funds PIF did, nor did it have an obligation to go out and find even more money for top players already getting 8-figure endorsements, but I'd like to know what any of the players who left have done to demonstrate the money they've been paid was warranted. 

 

Does LIV now have revenue coming in that justifies those payouts? Does it have a viewing audience that came with any of them that warrants the money? Help us understand where the Tour "shot itself in the foot" by not giving a literal billion it didn't have to greedy players who hadn't done anything to justify money from the Tour beyond the purses they were already awarded based on performance.

[betarhoalphadelta]

5 hours ago, SurfDuffer said:

I turn on a PGA event and the names I want to see aren't there.  They are on that other tour.  The PGA Tour shot itself in the foot.

 

And yet, as has been pointed out via links in this thread (and quoted below), PGA Tour 2023 ratings were pretty darn good. Up, even.

 

Now I don't think this argument could be justified, but you could argue that those players and their fans (like you) were toxic cancers making the product worse, and them (and you) leaving was addition by subtraction. 

 

I mean, I wouldn't say that personally. You seem like a fine chap. I wouldn't want to call you a toxic cancer. That would just be rude!

 

On 2/22/2024 at 8:11 AM, GoGoErky said:

You might want to read these as they say otherwise 

 

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/pga-tour-2023-season-us-tv-viewers-audience-ratings-nbc-cbs-golf-channel/?zephr_sso_ott=dlvLGG

 

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2023/08/29/cbs-sports-tv-pga-tour-numbers-up/
 

https://www.paramountpressexpress.com/cbs-sports/releases/?view=108402-cbs-sports-coverage-of-2023-pga-tour-season-sets-viewership-milestones-across-platforms#:~:text=For the season%2C CBS averaged,2022 (2.545 million viewers).

 

[GrandStranded]

I don’t get this argument that guys leaving for LIV has allowed new, young stars to emerge and the Tour doesn’t miss them.

If they were good enough, the young guys would’ve replaced the lower tier PGAT players, but you’d also have more cream at the top like Rahm, BDC, Koepka, DJ and the others.

It’s silly to try and argue the Tour is as good as ever… it’s just not.

Edited February 24 by GrandStranded

[BlackDiamondPar5]

39 minutes ago, GrandStranded said:

I don’t get this argument that guys leaving for LIV has allowed new, young stars to emerge and the Tour doesn’t miss them.

If they were good enough, the young guys would’ve replaced the lower tier PGAT players, but you’d also have more cream at the top like Rahm, BDC, Koepka, DJ and the others.

It’s silly to try and argue the Tour is as good as ever… it’s just not.

Would the PGAT be better if those guys hadn't joined the exhibition? Sure. But just the same life moves on and new blood fills the void. Some will become tomorrows stars just as the defectors did before we knew their names. 

 

It's pretty clear that the vast majority don't care to watch them on the exhibition tour. Think about it, between CW, YouTube and the App it's got to be the easiest sports league to follow, and all for free! All that and yet they have little following. 

 

These guys seriously overestimated their worth to the golf world. 

[notsohard]

On 2/23/2024 at 4:46 AM, Titleist99 said:

What people fail to realize is that the PGAT does not sell any particular player. they sell the PGAT as a whole. Their product is a vast variety of superb golfers. No one player is bigger than the tour. (maybe Tiger, but that's up for debate). 🙂🙂

 

The PGAT sells hopes, dreams, and the trials and tribulations of the underdog trying to reach the pinnacle of the sport. It sells wholesomeness that the sponsors love.

 

The Tour has a product that 99% of its viewing audience plays themselves. Stay the course until another Tiger comes along.😆😆

 

The PGATs only goal is its 6-year plan to enhance the Media deal from $7B to $10B. The loss of a few players won't affect that at all, by then the cabinet will be full again.

 

~Just my thoughts.

The PGAT is begging and praying for the next Tiger.

[Pops99]

15 hours ago, notsohard said:

The PGAT is begging and praying for the next Tiger.

And LIV just signed Anthony Kim. There is desperation on both sides. 

[notsohard]

12 minutes ago, Pops99 said:

And LIV just signed Anthony Kim. There is desperation on both sides. 

They haven't "signed" him. It's called a wildcard invitation. 

They are all in agreement in regards to how he feels and responds to playing competitive golf again.

Then there may be a signing, or he just walks away into the sunset... like Tiger should.

[thegoomba]

I think a big part of the PGA tour appeal is the courses themselves. We want to see Riviera, Pebble the Memorial etc. Not many players alone move the needle. Liv added Rahm and still tv ratings are the same as last year.

[stryper]

16 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Would the PGAT be better if those guys hadn't joined the exhibition? Sure. But just the same life moves on and new blood fills the void. Some will become tomorrows stars just as the defectors did before we knew their names. 

 

It's pretty clear that the vast majority don't care to watch them on the exhibition tour. Think about it, between CW, YouTube and the App it's got to be the easiest sports league to follow, and all for free! All that and yet they have little following. 

 

These guys seriously overestimated their worth to the golf world. 

Basic economics says they are worth whatever somebody is willing to pay them, that’s clear enough.  Whether you or I see the value in that is of no consequence.  They’re still getting paid.

[caniac6]

Big day for ACC basketball. Won’t watch a single shot of golf today.

[Dan33185]

Speaking for myself, I find myself less and less interested in golf these days. It's been months since I watched a tournament, and I'm guessing the next one I'll watch will be The Masters. Even that has lost it's luster for me, I don't find myself looking forward to it as much as in years past. Greed, pettiness and having players spread out over separate tours has really soured it for me. I don't know if it will ever change.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

27 minutes ago, stryper said:

Basic economics says they are worth whatever somebody is willing to pay them, that’s clear enough.  Whether you or I see the value in that is of no consequence.  They’re still getting paid.

Basic and normal economics don't apply here at all.

 

Bottom line they banked on this investment drawing eyeballs which they didn't get. The only thing they're drawing are laughs because the investors look like fools. 

[puttingmatt]

The tour is lost, they have let too many marquee names leave to the  LIV life tour.

As of late, watching the PGA, has been a boring waste of time. Certainly don't recognize the so called new players.

Even Tiger can't get through an event.

Hopefully, the majors will prove better.

 

[ronsc1985]

The current PGA tournament in Mexico is a joke.  I can't tell much difference from the Corn Ferry events.since the names are for the most part unrecognizable.  Why would any sponsor want to participate in this fiasco?  

[StoutKing]

24 minutes ago, stryper said:

Have you seen the LIV global financials, or are you basing your opinion on US markets alone?  And you assume you know what their investor’s interests are. They may well feel they’re getting their money’s worth and don’t give a f**k what they look like to others.  

 

The biggest thing I notice is that the LIV circuit is embarrassing for Yassir and Saudi Arabia.  For spending billions of dollars this thing should be special, not the joke that it turned out to be.  Before you call me a PGA tour slappy I don't think Monahan has done a particularly great job the last few years either.  I'm surprised they haven't canned Norman yet for someone more capable.  IMO the whole fiasco is a huge embarrassment for Saudi Arabia.  I've tried to get into LIV golf multiple times and it's literally unwatchable.

[jimecherry]

6 minutes ago, StoutKing said:

 

The biggest thing I notice is that the LIV circuit is embarrassing for Yassir and Saudi Arabia.  For spending billions of dollars this thing should be special, not the joke that it turned out to be.  Before you call me a PGA tour slappy I don't think Monahan has done a particularly great job the last few years either.  I'm surprised they haven't canned Norman yet for someone more capable.  IMO the whole fiasco is a huge embarrassment for Saudi Arabia.  I've tried to get into LIV golf multiple times and it's literally unwatchable.

pif also invested in crypto and wework and those havent exactly panned out either.

[LPSISCO]

I watch way less golf than I used to, simply because I don’t care who wins most of these PGA tournaments. Look at this week’s leaderboard - honestly, unless your son is in the top 10, how could you possibly care? I do watch more LPGA than I used to, just because I like watching them work their way around a course, hitting the ball about as far as I do. 

 

The 4 majors, the Ryder Cup, the Players (kinda), the Presidents Cup (kinda), that’s it for PGA golf. It would be impossible for me to care less who wins the Mexico Open, the Cognizant Classic, or the Puerto Rico Open in the next 3 weeks. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

4 hours ago, StoutKing said:

 

The biggest thing I notice is that the LIV circuit is embarrassing for Yassir and Saudi Arabia.  For spending billions of dollars this thing should be special, not the joke that it turned out to be.  Before you call me a PGA tour slappy I don't think Monahan has done a particularly great job the last few years either.  I'm surprised they haven't canned Norman yet for someone more capable.  IMO the whole fiasco is a huge embarrassment for Saudi Arabia.  I've tried to get into LIV golf multiple times and it's literally unwatchable.

👍Truth 

[bobfoster]

On 2/23/2024 at 10:58 PM, GrandStranded said:

I don’t get this argument that guys leaving for LIV has allowed new, young stars to emerge and the Tour doesn’t miss them.

If they were good enough, the young guys would’ve replaced the lower tier PGAT players, but you’d also have more cream at the top like Rahm, BDC, Koepka, DJ and the others.

It’s silly to try and argue the Tour is as good as ever… it’s just not.

It's just not ... to you. The "cream of the crop" still gets ratings on the CW network approximately equal to reruns of Those Amazing Animals. 

 

I watch the PGAT because it is by far the best tour on the planet. A few of the top players went to that YouTube exhibition tour, but it is getting few eyeballs despite spending obscene amounts of money.

 

But the "traditional" golf infrastructure is still alive and doing fine. The USGA running multiple amateur events for juniors. HS golf, college golf is flourishing. The KF developmental tour has some pretty interesting folks playing. Women's golf is getting incredibly interesting. 

 

Important to remember that there are very few Tigers that can dominate for over a decade. Most will have a few amazing years when everything clicks, until it no longer does and they are replaced by the next hottest things. LIV grabbed a handful in the middle of their "click" years (and a number of known names that were definitely on the downhill side of their careers), but even if LIV hadn't have grabbed them, they weren't likely to be a permanent draw. 

 

There is a new generation of golfer emerging. Some of the HS and college golf going on right now is amazing. And guess what - these kids don't go to sleep at night dreaming about being hand-picked by Saudis for indentured servitude entirely based on a whim - they dream, as golfers have for several decades, about earning the right to tee it up at a PGAT event. Of getting a The Card. 

 

That article was pretty cynical - someone selectively choosing stats and factoids to make it seem like the PGAT was in some sort of trouble. It isn't. And it's "silly" to try to argue that it is. The sport itself is doing very well. Over 26 million people played at least a round last year. More golfers are now keeping formal USGA handicaps than at any time in history. The percentage of women taking up the game is (slowly but steadily) growing. And this isn't because of LIV.

Edited February 25 by bobfoster

[Soloman1]

On 2/22/2024 at 11:16 AM, Titleist99 said:

What people fail to realize is that the PGAT does not sell any particular player.

 

Tiger Woods enters the chat.

 

Tiger Woods exits the chat.

[Soloman1]

the pga tour is dead.

 

long live the pga tour.

[Jolter]

I tend to believe that the PGATour is most likely at a crossroad. With a nice bump of money fromm SSG, the question is what happened behind clised doors as to what SSG is really getting in return or what it expects in the future. The other issue I see is how are the sponsors, as well as tv rights, going to be able to sustain paying exuberant fees for these tournaments and explain to their boards and stockholders for the contnuing bending of the knee to the Tour.

[Port and Starboard]

Tried to watch a couple LIV events but turned the channel after a few minutes. 

 

 I grew out of "kegger" gatherings a long time ago.

[Pnwpingi210]

My take on this is we were spoiled with players that went on dominating stretches the through the past 40 years.  We aren’t likely to see that anymore, even if LIV resolves and the talent on that tour comes back to rhe pga or Dp

 

Prize money in golf is now lucrative enough to have more elite athletes learn the game and stick with it from an early age.  Equipment has become very accommodating to almost every swing path, tempo, speed, etc.  This brings parity.

 

Seems like there is a tight leaderboard every Sunday, usually with some drama to decide the winner.  To me, that’s fun and exciting golf.  

 

[CCTxGolf]

Based on todays leaderboard and the next few tournaments I would say a loss. There is a serious lack of characters today and have been for Most of the 2024 tournaments so far.

 

Seems that golf as a whole is on its way to becoming must see TV for only 4 weeks of The year. Sort of like tennis.

 

They need to get the players back together if they want anybody to watch a regular golf tournament.

Edited February 25 by CCTxGolf