Ground Reaction Forces, Lead side dominant.

[Jtgavigan]

2 hours ago, tippethor said:

 

 

It was a good increase in SS for your 7 iron. Can i ask what your driving swingspeed is?

Around 115 on GC Quad. 

[drfrankenstein]

On 3/31/2024 at 10:58 AM, Nels55 said:

I am right handed and right leg dominant but I jump off of my left leg and reach with my right hand if I want to try to get as high as I can.  LOL not very high but I would think that those of us who like to jump off of the lead leg would do okay as front post?  Sort of makes sense does it not?

 

I can see that but doesn't that mean that you aren't right leg dominant? The example the swing catalyst guys use is hitting the ball with feet together, trail foot back and lead foot back and you should emphasize the motion which allows you to swing the fastest.

[skim4]

On 4/1/2024 at 3:37 AM, Jimjam651 said:

The feel we worked on was pushing the ground away from me down and to the right* (right handed golfer) with my trail foot at around hip height in the back swing which I found helped. 

To the right meaning opposite of the target ? Or more behind you than that? 

[Nels55]

56 minutes ago, drfrankenstein said:

 

I can see that but doesn't that mean that you aren't right leg dominant? The example the swing catalyst guys use is hitting the ball with feet together, trail foot back and lead foot back and you should emphasize the motion which allows you to swing the fastest.

I’m definitely right leg dominant as that is the leg I kick with or do anything else that requires coordination.

 I have done the dominance tests that you mention and I score better at one or another randomly.  I have done all of the tests as drills in the past so I know how to swing from any of those positions.

 

As for jumping off of the left / lead foot that is something that I learned to do when I was young.  I believe that with enough effort I could learn to play from any post that I want to train in.  I suspect that I am not alone in that.

[drfrankenstein]

3 hours ago, Nels55 said:

I’m definitely right leg dominant as that is the leg I kick with or do anything else that requires coordination.

 I have done the dominance tests that you mention and I score better at one or another randomly.  I have done all of the tests as drills in the past so I know how to swing from any of those positions.

 

As for jumping off of the left / lead foot that is something that I learned to do when I was young.  I believe that with enough effort I could learn to play from any post that I want to train in.  I suspect that I am not alone in that.

 

Cool. I think that was my point as well. I'm mostly right dominant so turning hard into my right side isn't difficult nor does it feel abnormal. But feeling like keeping my pressure on my lead/left (and dominant) foot has me hitting the ball better and has increased my club head speed on Stack, so I think I have my answer. I guess the point is the "simple" test developed to ascertain if you are a front/center/rear post golfer isn't so simple. This is why Scott Lynn advocates doing those drills to see how you swing fastest/best.

[glk]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:20 AM, i*windows said:

has anyone done any work with ground reaction forces and found that they are lead side dominant? I was doing some work on this and we found that I struck the ball much better and with more speed when I feel that on my backswing I'm immediately loading my lead leg and putting pressure in my lead foot, it feels very unnatural but if it works, it works.

 

I'd be interested if there were other people out there who have had success with this

Lead side dominate is kinda misnamed - it is more preference than dominate.   A simple test is what leg do you kick with?   The kicking leg is the preference - the non preference leg is used for stability versus fine motor action.     I don't see how this applies to the golf swing since both legs are used and have important roles - yes I don't buy the post idea either but people do develop motion patterns based on their life experiences - however, how you currently move doesn't determine how you can move - our joint system is highly redundant - being able to easily make motion changes shows a healthy degree of motion variability.    The force applied by the legs in the swing are way less than that generated in a jog.      1.8 BW is a good target max grf force with Dr Kwon's research shows for his sample set 1.6 is the average.

 

The pattern you describe is an inefficient use of the ground.   Not to say that you personally don't hit better but more likely you don't really understand how best to move to take advantage of what both legs need to be doing.    

 

Edited April 2 by glk

[drfrankenstein]

12 minutes ago, glk said:

Lead side dominate is kinda misnamed - it is more preference than dominate.   A simple test is what leg do you kick with?   The kicking leg is the preference - the non preference leg is used for stability versus fine motor action.     I don't see how this applies to the golf swing since both legs are used and have important roles - yes I don't buy the post idea either but people do develop motion patterns based on their life experiences - however, how you currently move doesn't determine how you can move - our joint system is highly redundant - being able to easily make motion changes shows a healthy degree of motion variability.    The force applied by the legs in the swing are way less than that generated in a jog.      1.8 BW is a good target max grf force with Dr Kwon's research shows for his sample set 1.6 is the average.

 

The pattern you describe is an inefficient use of the ground.   Not to say that you personally don't hit better but more likely you don't really understand how best to move to take advantage of what both legs need to be doing.    

 

 

Maybe semantics here, but the leg that you kick with is more coordinated and (usually) stronger will be your "dominant" leg. It's not a preference- it is something that can be objectively measured in the golf swing. Establishing which is dominant can push you in a direction towards how you should be using your lower body to swing a golf club. 

[glk]

26 minutes ago, drfrankenstein said:

 

Maybe semantics here, but the leg that you kick with is more coordinated and (usually) stronger will be your "dominant" leg. It's not a preference- it is something that can be objectively measured in the golf swing. Establishing which is dominant can push you in a direction towards how you should be using your lower body to swing a golf club. 

agree to disagree.    unfortunately there isn't an ideal measurement for any of this.   Haven't seen any research papers on this - do you have a pointer to one?  but bottom line in the golf swing dominate or preferred is meaningless.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5747428/

 

In the above studies, different methods to determine leg dominance are used, thus an ideal method to determine leg dominance is still lacking [7,8]. In 1998, Peters defined the dominant leg as ‘the leg used in order to manipulate an object or to lead out in movement’ [9]. This automatically leads to the definition of the non-dominant leg: ‘the leg which performs the stabilizing or supporting role’ [9

 

not a study but a second article

https://spartascience.com/blog/what-is-your-dominant-leg

Edited April 2 by glk

[Rbsiedsc]

On 3/8/2024 at 8:37 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

This is my theory after seeing many pressure traces of golfers from all skill levels.

 

Lets put aside beginners and very high handicappers who actually do go left immediately and tilt their spine toward the target.  An actual reverse pivot.

 

Most golfers instinct who were taught to load the right side and shift weight, is to move left way too late and have to have a reverse pivot feel to get left at the end of the backswing.

 

Your feel might be to go left immediately, but you’re not.  This is why it’s important to sequence the club, hands and arms early, so your pelvis rotation and shift can get you left on time. 
 

When I out someone on a pressure mat and say, “In your mind only move the club head to p2 and whip it back there as fast as you can.”

 

Static pressure goes from cerca 50/50 to like 70-30 right. When I have them do it to left arm parallel it’s 80-20ish.  This is why slow backswings ruin sequencing and shift.

 

Then when they do it dynamically, they can “feel” they go left immediately and they get a proper trade and vertical force spikes at right time.  It just takes a while as they are so used to slow smooth tempo and Uber loading the right side.

 

The facts are this.  GRF vector is up and away from the target.  That’s why you see Bubba, Berkshire and the like pull their lead foot back.  The middle letter is Reaction.  How do you get that vector if you push off the right side like many people say to do?.  That correct action force vector is down and forward.  You don’t have time to get the down and forward to begin the downswing to get a proper GRF at the right time.  Guess why nearly every golfer peaks their vertical force too late?

 

I don’t think this is as complicated as rear and front post.  I think it’s more like early and late backswing shift.  Bryson early, Rory late.

 

 

 

interesting and something I think I need to try. My coach has me keeping a feeling of slow-slow-fast in terms of backswing-transition-downswing. I guess i can still have that feeling but just speed each piece up to be more athletic/instinctual.

[drfrankenstein]

36 minutes ago, glk said:

agree to disagree.    unfortunately there isn't an ideal measurement for any of this.   Haven't seen any research papers on this - do you have a pointer to one?  but bottom line in the golf swing dominate or preferred is meaningless.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5747428/

 

In the above studies, different methods to determine leg dominance are used, thus an ideal method to determine leg dominance is still lacking [7,8]. In 1998, Peters defined the dominant leg as ‘the leg used in order to manipulate an object or to lead out in movement’ [9]. This automatically leads to the definition of the non-dominant leg: ‘the leg which performs the stabilizing or supporting role’ [9

 

not a study but a second article

https://spartascience.com/blog/what-is-your-dominant-leg

 

We were referring to leg dominance in relation to golf, not in general. If you don't buy the post-types paradigm then I'm not sure why you would care. If you watch the Swing Catalyst videos on YT and watch how people are tested to determine the best way to use their lower body it is personal from golfer to golfer but also fairly scientific in how they determine how and what to test.

[glk]

19 minutes ago, drfrankenstein said:

 

We were referring to leg dominance in relation to golf, not in general. If you don't buy the post-types paradigm then I'm not sure why you would care. If you watch the Swing Catalyst videos on YT and watch how people are tested to determine the best way to use their lower body it is personal from golfer to golfer but also fairly scientific in how they determine how and what to test.

Cause it is poor information.   Dr Kwon has measured and found a very efficient motion pattern in using the ground.    I used to watch a lot of Scott Lynn but find he, to me, has little golf research especially on using the ground and makes things more confusing than they need to be - kinda a forest for the trees - a few years ago he said he was going to do research papers using Adams data but that has yet to be seen - so not very scientific. - again we can move many more ways than you do currently and certainly the golf swing has many options what the best do is not limited just to them and is getting better understood - doesn't mean everyone can be on tour but does mean one can be the best version of themselves.    Or just continue on.

Edited April 2 by glk

[skim4]

4 minutes ago, glk said:

Cause it is poor information.   Dr Kwon has measured and found a very efficient motion pattern in using the ground.    I used to watch a lot of Scott Lynn but find he, to me, has little golf research especially on using the ground and makes things more confusing than they need to be - kinda a forest for the trees - a few years ago he said he was going to do research papers using Adams data but that has yet to be seen. - again we can move many more ways than you do currently and certainly the golf swing has many options what the best do is not limited just to them and is getting better understood - doesn't mean everyone can be on tour but does mean one can be the best version of themselves.    Or just continue on.

My in person instructor had me on pressure plates and basically told me what you did in August. That I'm not loading my trail leg enough or fast enough. What he had me do was very kwon like. 

But he also mentioned the posts. I'm not sure what the posts have to do with loading the trail leg. Do all good players load the trail leg regardless of their "post"? 

 

Also I'm having a hard time reconciling the loading of the trail leg while also trying to get "left sooner" as it seems most ams struggle with this and I'm a not very good amateur . @MonteScheinblum

 Can one simultaneously not load the trail leg properly and also not get to the their left side in time? I think I heard an AMG guy say in one of the videos that to get left properly one must go right first?   I could be making that up. 

[MonteScheinblum]

In order to get left properly you must go right first.  Otherwise you’ll do it backwards.

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, Rbsiedsc said:

interesting and something I think I need to try. My coach has me keeping a feeling of slow-slow-fast in terms of backswing-transition-downswing. I guess i can still have that feeling but just speed each piece up to be more athletic/instinctual.

Slow backswings lead to nothing but trouble 

[GoGoErky]

26 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Slow backswings lead to nothing but trouble 

Something I had to stop doing. I remember a video Harrington did I think it was on golf channel and he said no pro goes back slow. 

[glk]

5 minutes ago, skim4 said:

My in person instructor had me on pressure plates and basically told me what you did in August. That I'm not loading my trail leg enough or fast enough. What he had me do was very kwon like. 

But he also mentioned the posts. I'm not sure what the posts have to do with loading the trail leg. Do all good players load the trail leg regardless of their "post"? 

 

Also I'm having a hard time reconciling the loading of the trail leg while also trying to get "left sooner" as it seems most ams struggle with this and I'm a not very good amateur . @MonteScheinblum

 Can one simultaneously not load the trail leg properly and also not get to the their left side in time? I think I heard an AMG guy say in one of the videos that to get left properly one must go right first?   I could be making that up. 

 

I may have shared some of these with you.

These are the frontal plane vertical GRF - red is combined, blue is trail leg, green is lead leg.

 

First is (except for the jumping off all patterns have been seen in elite swings)  pattern that Dr Kwon found to be most efficient, second is spinning, then s&t, and jumping off which is not to be confused with the guys like JT having their lead foot leave the ground - it is a pattern (he has seen in jrs) where the body is lowered during the backswing so as to be able to jump in the downswing - squat and jump.   In general, this model pattern is what Dr Kwon found in elite swings (except for S&T swingers) - but there are difference in how much trail leg push, unweightening, etc that leads to most efficient use of the ground - out of 63 golfers 19 had highly efficient pattern - not saying that the other 44 were inefficient - but you can see below that spinners produced less unweighting for example.

 

In each pattern you will see the trail leg loaded to different degrees  - model has the golfer push hard with the trail leg leading to an unweighting of the lead side and a "fall" to that side and in order to stop the fall the golfer has to push the ground hard with the lead leg - golfer is not pushing hard to jump.

 

Spinning has little trail leg loading and delayed unweighting - golfer has to unweight while in downswing and then golfer needs to push really hard.  This is the shift left hard and late pattern.

 

Jumping off is very peaceful leg action since intent is to drop first then jump.

 

S&T has trail leg loading but then shift to lead leg early in backswing .   Is "lead" side dominate in that golfer to get lead side before backswing is halfway thru and then stays there.     Produces the least lead frontal plane vertical GRF.

 

 

 

 

[drfrankenstein]

1 hour ago, glk said:

Cause it is poor information.   Dr Kwon has measured and found a very efficient motion pattern in using the ground.    I used to watch a lot of Scott Lynn but find he, to me, has little golf research especially on using the ground and makes things more confusing than they need to be - kinda a forest for the trees - a few years ago he said he was going to do research papers using Adams data but that has yet to be seen - so not very scientific. - again we can move many more ways than you do currently and certainly the golf swing has many options what the best do is not limited just to them and is getting better understood - doesn't mean everyone can be on tour but does mean one can be the best version of themselves.    Or just continue on.

I have to say I’m thoroughly confused by what you are saying not because I don’t understand or even because I disagree. You said you don’t agree with the post paradigm but then (above) posted similar patterns by Dr. Kwon which essentially correlate with the Swing Catalyst/post patterns and the dominant forces utilized therein. To me they don’t seem different whatsoever. As for the “best version of ourselves” that’s exactly what I was referring to: if my left leg is dominant, I hit the ball better using more of my lead side and after years of trying to get as much pressure into my trail side as possible, I’m hitting it better trying to focus the pressure on my lead side. 

[glk]

42 minutes ago, drfrankenstein said:

I have to say I’m thoroughly confused by what you are saying not because I don’t understand or even because I disagree. You said you don’t agree with the post paradigm but then (above) posted similar patterns by Dr. Kwon which essentially correlate with the Swing Catalyst/post patterns and the dominant forces utilized therein. To me they don’t seem different whatsoever. As for the “best version of ourselves” that’s exactly what I was referring to: if my left leg is dominant, I hit the ball better using more of my lead side and after years of trying to get as much pressure into my trail side as possible, I’m hitting it better trying to focus the pressure on my lead side. 

Whatever works for you.   Do you have force graphs examples for each of these post patterns?    
 

I've seen Adams  idea of when force moves and he has everyone moving left before the backswing ends - definitions of end of backswing can vary.   Spinner for dr kwon don't move force left until after top of backswing    Model swingers move force during transition.   S&t does move force by p3.

-------- from  Adams  -------

Each lower body style has its own unique characteristics that help maximize ground reaction forces in the golf swing. The timing, dominant type of force and ways they are performed vary from post to post. All golfers move to the trail side in the backswing, but front post golfers will start moving to the target side at shaft parallel to the ground, center post will move when lead arm is parallel to the ground and rear post will move just before the top of the backswing.

Edited April 2 by glk

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, skim4 said:

 

Also I'm having a hard time reconciling the loading of the trail leg while also trying to get "left sooner" as it seems most ams struggle with this and I'm a not very good amateur .

 

Can one simultaneously not load the trail leg properly and also not get to the their left side in time? I think I heard an AMG guy say in one of the videos that to get left properly one must go right first?   I could be making that up. 

 

I think that one of the things that plague many of us ams who load the trail side and then have trouble getting back left on time is actually not that we don't load the trail leg enough, it's that we don't load it SOON enough. 

 

And per what Monte said, I think a lot of us, or at least myself, do it backwards. We pressure the lead side early to push to the trail side, CONTINUE that pressure too long, and by the time we get to the top, we're stuck on the trail side. So in trying to load the trail leg we're actually loading the lead leg until we get there, and by the time we get there we're too late and we REALLY load the trail leg to get back when we should have already been back to the lead leg...

 

So here's what I've been doing. I *know* that I don't have to think about pressuring the lead side to start my movement off the ball. My body already wants to do it, and do it too much. So I've been working on doing the opposite. I assume my lead side will take care of itself. From the start of my backswing my "feel" is pushing into the ground with my right foot, resisting the sway off the ball. I'm not thinking "load" the trail side in the sense of getting mass over there, I'm thinking "pressure" the trail side getting force into that foot. (Hint--my lead side has to pressure first to allow me to do that, but for me that's something that I don't have to do consciously.) The earlier I intend to do it, the more likely I'm actually going to do it on time.

 

When I do it, it feels completely wrong. Feels (as Monte has said in another thread) like reverse pivot or S&T. And it feels like I'm in transition before my backswing is over. But on video it actually looks right. And while I'm REALLY trying to do this with minimal effort slow swings, the ball goes damn near as far as it does on a full swing the old way. 

 

I think the mental block is your idea of "load the trail leg" is probably getting turned into "load the right side" (assuming you're RH)--you're shifting mass instead of pressure. And if you shift the mass, it's hard to shift it back to the lead side in time. If you watch the AMG stuff, pros have a very slight almost imperceptible to the naked eye bump to the right at the start of the backswing, whereas ams commonly have a several-inch sway to the right throughout the backswing. That's the difference. They move very slightly right to go left. We push off the left, go WAY too far right, and then have no time to get back left because it's too late. 

[glk]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I think that one of the things that plague many of us ams who load the trail side and then have trouble getting back left on time is actually not that we don't load the trail leg enough, it's that we don't load it SOON enough. 

 

And per what Monte said, I think a lot of us, or at least myself, do it backwards. We pressure the lead side early to push to the trail side, CONTINUE that pressure too long, and by the time we get to the top, we're stuck on the trail side. So in trying to load the trail leg we're actually loading the lead leg until we get there, and by the time we get there we're too late and we REALLY load the trail leg to get back when we should have already been back to the lead leg...

 

So here's what I've been doing. I *know* that I don't have to think about pressuring the lead side to start my movement off the ball. My body already wants to do it, and do it too much. So I've been working on doing the opposite. I assume my lead side will take care of itself. From the start of my backswing my "feel" is pushing into the ground with my right foot, resisting the sway off the ball. I'm not thinking "load" the trail side in the sense of getting mass over there, I'm thinking "pressure" the trail side getting force into that foot. (Hint--my lead side has to pressure first to allow me to do that, but for me that's something that I don't have to do consciously.) The earlier I intend to do it, the more likely I'm actually going to do it on time.

 

When I do it, it feels completely wrong. Feels (as Monte has said in another thread) like reverse pivot or S&T. And it feels like I'm in transition before my backswing is over. But on video it actually looks right. And while I'm REALLY trying to do this with minimal effort slow swings, the ball goes damn near as far as it does on a full swing the old way. 

 

I think the mental block is your idea of "load the trail leg" is probably getting turned into "load the right side" (assuming you're RH)--you're shifting mass instead of pressure. And if you shift the mass, it's hard to shift it back to the lead side in time. If you watch the AMG stuff, pros have a very slight almost imperceptible to the naked eye bump to the right at the start of the backswing, whereas ams commonly have a several-inch sway to the right throughout the backswing. That's the difference. They move very slightly right to go left. We push off the left, go WAY too far right, and then have no time to get back left because it's too late. 

On not pressuring the trail side early enough And hard enough, I agree.

 

here is grante waite - watch the force arrow under his right foot -  center arrow is combined force -  trail foot maxs before p3  - it is the lowering that allows the lateral force to rapidly shift the cop to the lead side right after top of backswing.  Red dot is body com.   Green dot is ball.  This creates a large moment arm at the top of the backswing which results in a large torque peak - great initial condition to start the downswing    Then as he quickly shift the cop to the lead side he gets another peak torque booster before p5.    And at peak grf he is actually losing torque.

 

 

 

 

 

Here is grants frontal plane torque pattern.   Top graph is the torque   First peak at peak moment arm - vertical doted line.  Second peak before p5 and before max grf.    Figure shows position at peaks.  Can see at actual peak force torque has decreased significantly.     Basically accelerate everything as early as possible.  Moment arm begins to decrease after  top but still is significant enough that he gets peak torque with less than max force.   Horizontal dotted lines are men average. - grant exceeds them.

 

Edited April 3 by glk

[Albatross Dreamer]

11 hours ago, Nels55 said:

I’m definitely right leg dominant as that is the leg I kick with or do anything else that requires coordination.

 

6 hours ago, glk said:

Lead side dominate is kinda misnamed - it is more preference than dominate.   A simple test is what leg do you kick with?   The kicking leg is the preference - the non preference leg is used for stability versus fine motor action.   

 

 

6 hours ago, drfrankenstein said:

 

Maybe semantics here, but the leg that you kick with is more coordinated and (usually) stronger will be your "dominant" leg. It's not a preference- it is something that can be objectively measured in the golf swing. Establishing which is dominant can push you in a direction towards how you should be using your lower body to swing a golf club. 

I don't believe the leg you kick with would necessarily be the dominant leg, as it's often the other leg that is stronger and better at producing force, at least according to most of the research. When you kick a soccer ball the plant leg is the one that's absorbing the momentum and in the case of a jump also producing upward force. Which to me are the attributes that would make it the "dominant" leg in a golf swing. But that's only one consideration in a sea of them.

[Nels55]

48 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

 

 

I don't believe the leg you kick with would necessarily be the dominant leg, as it's often the other leg that is stronger and better at producing force, at least according to most of the research. When you kick a soccer ball the plant leg is the one that's absorbing the momentum and in the case of a jump also producing upward force. Which to me are the attributes that would make it the "dominant" leg in a golf swing. But that's only one consideration in a sea of them.

Most people who are right handed are right legged.  I don't think that being right or left legged means much when it comes to which leg is dominant in a golf swing if there even is such a thing.  In a good swing both legs are used well.

[Hilts1969]

After finally agreeing on what is most dominant the arms or the pivot(we did agree didn't we ?) Thank god we have moved on to which is the most dominant leg. Now I'm right footed but I do put my left foot down first when I get out of bed. Ermmm......

 

This one is gonna run and run(both feet probably:-))

 

Anyhow as we can micromanage even more let's move onto is your left or right foot the more dominant corkscrew action?

 

In fact scrap that because it will only lead to which is more dominant the right toe or the left heel. Now for me its not straightforward, I test how cold the pools water is with my right toe but my left heel puts tremendous pressure on my playing partners golf ball in the rough if I find it before he does.

 

What the hell,  I'm going to base the whole swing on my left heel.

 

Anyone know if its predominantly outer middle or inner Heel? If anyone has a graph or TPI exercise that would be great.

[Jimjam651]

22 hours ago, skim4 said:

To the right meaning opposite of the target ? Or more behind you than that? 

 

Edit - found a video of Steve Furlonger explaining the feeling I was trying to describe. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CR5p48VAmuc/?igsh=am4zN3A1MnNmMzJh 

Edited April 3 by Jimjam651

[Albatross Dreamer]

10 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Most people who are right handed are right legged.  I don't think that being right or left legged means much when it comes to which leg is dominant in a golf swing if there even is such a thing.  In a good swing both legs are used well.

I agree, I don't necessarily think of leg dominance in the golf swing. I only have a rudimentary knowledge of the post system, but have some hypotheses. For example, things like rate of force development, joint ranges of motion, anatomic structure, etc could all affect how someone expresses the movement of the golf swing within the constraints given of effective movement.

[drfrankenstein]

12 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

I agree, I don't necessarily think of leg dominance in the golf swing. I only have a rudimentary knowledge of the post system, but have some hypotheses. For example, things like rate of force development, joint ranges of motion, anatomic structure, etc could all affect how someone expresses the movement of the golf swing within the constraints given of effective movement.

Swing catalyst has tests that can display leg dominance as it relates to golf. That, coupled with type of post, informs how best to use the lower body in the golf swing. 

[Rbsiedsc]

On 4/2/2024 at 1:56 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Slow backswings lead to nothing but trouble 

So I tried to go back fast today during speed training along with the 21/7 tour tempo. When I did I felt like I had to pause at the top for the second tone. Is this doing it wrong? I did get it ver 130mph on my lightest weight so that’s a plus. 

[Rbsiedsc]

14 hours ago, Rbsiedsc said:

So I tried to go back fast today during speed training along with the 21/7 tour tempo. When I did I felt like I had to pause at the top for the second tone. Is this doing it wrong? I did get it ver 130mph on my lightest weight so that’s a plus. 

following up, I took this feeling to the course today. The first few holes were crap but i stuck with it and ended the nine Par, Bogey, Par. Something just clicked.

[Rbsiedsc]

On 4/2/2024 at 1:56 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Slow backswings lead to nothing but trouble 

Another follow up. If we are supposed to practice movements slowly to ingrain motor patterns, how are we supposed to turn on a faster backswing then? Do we just do things slow but know to speed up on course and on full swing practice?

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, Rbsiedsc said:

Another follow up. If we are supposed to practice movements slowly to ingrain motor patterns, how are we supposed to turn on a faster backswing then? Do we just do things slow but know to speed up on course and on full swing practice?

there is a difference between slow backswing Monte is talking about and

slow movement pattern swings.

 

The slow movement swings are to engrain a new motor pattern. As the new motor pattern is learned by the neuro system it becomes a natural movement so when you go to make a normal swing your body knows what to do.

You use the slow movement practice

swings to teach the things you don’t do. You combine drill work with real swings to help is carry over. Iirc Monte prefers 5 swings doing a drill and then 10 regular golf swings