Need some direction on range to course swing

[Shilgy]

On 4/23/2024 at 4:21 PM, Duffer Mark said:

I forgot. There are a few issues I’m working on now. Stop swaying in the backswing, getting my pressure shift left sooner, and stop hyperextending my right leg in the backswing. 

One/two questions…..Do you think about those things when hitting on the range?  Do you think about those things when actually playing golf.

 

Often the “pressure” of actually playing the game makes us tense.  As you know from your martial arts trying relaxed muscles are the fast muscles….not tense muscles caused by doubt and fear.

[Duffer Mark]

9 hours ago, Shilgy said:

One/two questions…..Do you think about those things when hitting on the range?  Do you think about those things when actually playing golf.

 

Often the “pressure” of actually playing the game makes us tense.  As you know from your martial arts trying relaxed muscles are the fast muscles….not tense muscles caused by doubt and fear.

I do not think about all of those things on the course. And I am trying to just work on one thing at a time on the range, but it has only been since this past Sunday that I found out where I was messing up my swing so I've barely begun to work on them.

 

Admittedly, I was having anywhere from 8 - 22 swing thoughts on the course. Last night, I attempted to limit my thoughts to one thing. I did okay but will keep working on it.

[Duffer Mark]

As I work toward proper pressure shift and turn, I've found myself getting sore in areas of my hips and lower back. Apparently, I've really built in some bad habits. 

[bortass]

4 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

As I work toward proper pressure shift and turn, I've found myself getting sore in areas of my hips and lower back. Apparently, I've really built in some bad habits. 

You're giving me flashbacks to some of my lessons years ago. We'd change part of my swing and suddenly things I never knew existed were sore for a week or so. 

 

At least you're getting some feedback that something has changed!

[Duffer Mark]

@bortassI had the same thought on the feedback. So I sure hope so.

[Duffer Mark]

My hip sways are a hard habit to break. I have trouble trying to swing slowly or pausing at the top. When I get to the top, I just want to unload. LOL

 

Tonight, the feel I used to swing well was to feel like I’m just turning my arms and shoulders until my lead shoulder is under my chin and then a slight bend in my lead leg just before top of swing. Then, hit the ball. 
 

That worked well but I had to move the ball about 1/2” forward with the driver to make good contact and was still hitting slightly above center. 

[TheDeanAbides]

In general, it’s okay to have a couple of thoughts/feelings for a practice swing, but your actual scoring swing should have a thought that’s forward focused. Generally something simple like “commit fully to the shot”.

[betarhoalphadelta]

10 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

My hip sways are a hard habit to break. I have trouble trying to swing slowly or pausing at the top. When I get to the top, I just want to unload. LOL

 

Tonight, the feel I used to swing well was to feel like I’m just turning my arms and shoulders until my lead shoulder is under my chin and then a slight bend in my lead leg just before top of swing. Then, hit the ball. 
 

That worked well but I had to move the ball about 1/2” forward with the driver to make good contact and was still hitting slightly above center. 

 

BTW I know Monte harps on this one, but swinging slowly and/or pausing at the top might not be a good idea. I think he'd say that most ams are glacial and need to speed up, not slow down. And incidentally, as I've been working on my own sway, I've seen my swing speed up. Previously my tempo was around a 27/10 by counting frames on video, and IIRC looking at my swings as I've been working on my sway it's closer to 21/7. 

 

I think that ultimately happened because the sway takes more time to reverse than a proper pivot. If you get all that weight swaying over to the trail side, you need enough time to get it back to the lead side, especially since you're doing it late. By not swaying to the trail side, it actually makes my swing take a shorter amount of time to complete.

 

I'm not sure specifically what Monte told you, so if this contradicts anything he said at the clinic please just disregard me, a hack who has a higher cap than you do 😉 --- For me I had to be consciously resisting the sway. In another thread (and in some of Monte's videos) he talks about the danger of pushing off the trail foot, and I agree. Generally if you're pushing off the trail foot you have pressure there, and if you're doing that near the start of the downswing you shouldn't have much pressure there. But what I found helped me was to have a feel that basically as soon as I was taking the club away from the ball to push into the trail foot. Meaning to actively use that trail foot pressure to brace me against the sway. And the earlier you do it the better. 

 

Maybe that's wrong, and/or maybe that won't work for you. But that's what got me from the before photo to the after below. 

 

 

 

[Duffer Mark]

Kept my warm up minimal in tonight’s golf league. And I tried to keep my swing thoughts to one thing or nothing. 

The biggest challenge was trusting my body movement in the backswing. I hit some pure shots which felt awkward. Had 4 lip out putts and ended up with a 44. First progress I’ve made in a while. 

[TheDeanAbides]

5 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

Kept my warm up minimal in tonight’s golf league. And I tried to keep my swing thoughts to one thing or nothing. 

The biggest challenge was trusting my body movement in the backswing. I hit some pure shots which felt awkward. Had 4 lip out putts and ended up with a 44. First progress I’ve made in a while. 

When I’m working on backswing stuff I’ll rehearse the move during my preshot routine. That gives me more confidence in what I’m about to do, but then it’s all about commitment to the shot. 

[Duffer Mark]

Hit a few balls into the net tonight trying to get a feel for a proper pressure shift. The pictures are of my 7-iron and driver with six shots in a row.

 

I’ll take the seven iron, but the driver was less consistent. I had a few more drivers and my miss is right at the top, center of the face hitting about 1/3 at the bottom of the ball. Friggin Golf.

 

I need to find an iPad program so I can watch a video of my swing right away. Or I need to take my clubs to Goodwill.

 

[KD1]

Big ol rubber range tees? If so the driver is tighter than it looks at first glance.

[Duffer Mark]

@KD1 yeah, I’m hitting off a mat in my driveway so all I have is the rubber tee. 😖

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

On 5/1/2024 at 9:16 AM, betarhoalphadelta said:

For me I had to be consciously resisting the sway. In another thread (and in some of Monte's videos) he talks about the danger of pushing off the trail foot, and I agree. Generally if you're pushing off the trail foot you have pressure there, and if you're doing that near the start of the downswing you shouldn't have much pressure there...

This might sound weird, and I'm a double digit HDCP too, but the right shoulder turn and right butt cheek going away then to target, seem to put me on the front toes.  No conscious push off the rear foot needed.

 

Now making sure I don't "help" things along by a massive lunge target-side...that is a bit tougher.  I don't know why; I get enough positive feedback when I wait...  Shrug. 

 

Keep on trying It slow, I guess. Maybe it'll sink in?

Edited May 3 by Jayjay_theweim_guy

[Duffer Mark]

2 hours ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

This might sound weird, and I'm a double digit HDCP too, but the right shoulder turn and right butt cheek going away then to target, seem to put me on the front toes.  No conscious push off the rear foot needed.

I’m not what you mean. My issue is to not move my right shoulder away from the target because I will sway. I’m focused on turning my hips back instead of right and back. One of my other issues is getting onto and staying in the toes of my right foot. 
 

Instead, I’m trying to rotate the right hip straight back and pressure into the right heel and load the right glute. 

[TheDeanAbides]

8 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

Hit a few balls into the net tonight trying to get a feel for a proper pressure shift. The pictures are of my 7-iron and driver with six shots in a row.

 

I’ll take the seven iron, but the driver was less consistent. I had a few more drivers and my miss is right at the top, center of the face hitting about 1/3 at the bottom of the ball. Friggin Golf.

 

I need to find an iPad program so I can watch a video of my swing right away. Or I need to take my clubs to Goodwill.

 

Don’t worry about strike when you’re changing movement patterns. Just base your success/failure on whether you made the move.

[Duffer Mark]

@TheDeanAbidesYeah, but then I fear if I'm not striking the ball somewhat that I'm moving wrong.

[KD1]

I just want to keep it away from the heel 😧

[TheDeanAbides]

27 minutes ago, Duffer Mark said:

@TheDeanAbidesYeah, but then I fear if I'm not striking the ball somewhat that I'm moving wrong.

And that’s what keeps high cappers high. You end up chasing strike and that sends you back, sometimes unconsciously, to your old safe patterns. 
 

If you’re worried that you’re not making the move correctly you need to film yourself and refer to it. Strike won’t tell you to begin with because fixing the first major issue throws all your other compensations off. You’ll adjust and reset after many reps. 

Edited Friday at 04:02 PM by TheDeanAbides

[Duffer Mark]

1 hour ago, KD1 said:

I just want to keep it away from the heel 😧

Are you saying you are trying to avoid loading into the trail leg heel? If I understand correctly what I was told, not getting into the heel will make for a poor pressure shift.

[KD1]

1 minute ago, Duffer Mark said:

Are you saying you are trying to avoid loading into the trail leg heel? If I understand correctly what I was told, not getting into the heel will make for a poor pressure shift.

 

No I mean the heel of the club face. I agree with what Dean said with the exception that if it's moving to the heel/hosel I'll worry just a little bit about strike. By default I'll throw a stick or something on the other side of the target line to keep from hitting sh*nks.

[bortass]

Keep in mind that Monte also says to not worry about the ball flight when working on a new move. I thought he was going to beat me(verbally) when I made a comment about hitting it thin when I executed the move better the first day when we were working on the range. He did drop the 'and that's why people don't improve comment' when I did it, lol.

 

At the 2023 clinic he hit some balls on the range for us, same spot we were set up at this year, and hooked one into the left trees. His reaction was along the lines of 'Good, I did my move better' because his miss tends to be the other way. Terrible on course result but fine on the range.

 

Changing the motor pattern is what matters, not where the ball goes, when we're actually practicing a movement change. It's different if you are just making normal swings and trying to work on your accuracy or hit a specific shot since all of that is results based. The shot is what counts, not how you got there.

 

We're all different and it's easy for me to say just practice the move and don't worry about the strike/ball flight. Doesn't mean it's something that's easy to do but I drank that koolaid from Monte and my results have shown me that it works. I feel that most of us need to get out of our own ways, lol.

[Duffer Mark]

Went to the range today and started with my pitching wedge working on the proper pressure shift and just making sure my hips go straight back without sway in both the backswing and downswing. I’ve been working on these moves slowly in the house. 
 

I have various clubs through the bag. I found it if I have a slight pause at the top it allows my pressure shift to complete in the left hip go straight back.

 

I was hitting the ball as pure as I’ve ever hit it. Even my three wood, which I have been struggling with. And my driver ball flight was on a string. 
 

Then I got rained out. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

22 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

I have various clubs through the bag. I found it if I have a slight pause at the top it allows my pressure shift to complete in the left hip go straight back.

 

 

Do you have video? I sort of "feel" a slight pause at the top while working on the sway. It almost feels like I'm up there for an eternity before I really start the downswing. I absolutely don't feel like I'm rushing. 

 

And then I look at the video and count frames and I'm basically 20/8 and the clubhead doesn't even stop at the top for a full frame. (For reference I was often ~27/10 when I needed time to reverse the sway.)

 

Not saying your feel isn't real, but sometimes you need video to be sure 😉

 

[Duffer Mark]

I have no video as this was a last-minute invite from a good friend. I was slowly working my way through the proper movements before hitting shots.
 

I know it’s not much of a pause but for me, it seemed to be just enough to get the left hip moving correctly  

 

I plan to take video next time I’m on the range so I can see what it looks like when I have such a good ball flight – if I can do it again. 😆

[Pepperturbo]

On 4/6/2024 at 6:38 PM, Duffer Mark said:

Here’s my theory of how I believe martial arts negatively affects my golf swing. (Ironically, I believe martial arts has helped me with every other sport.)

 

I started with Karate (Chito-Ryu) then added kickboxing and later on some Krav Maga and BJJ. Learning basic and foundational moves and practicing kata was great. I learned balance and learned to move well and learned to use both sides of my body. 
 

However, that all changes when it comes to applying all those moves in fighting or sparring. You have to move with or against your opponent, catch them off guard and learn to find power when you’re off-balance, out of position, etc. And that’s where I think my golf swing is affected in the actual activity of swinging. I guess I feel like I have to add something to try to get more power, etc. while I’m swinging so I add unnecessary body moves which screws up my golf swing. 

 

i’m at the point where golf is not very enjoyable. 

That's interesting.  I started Karate and Judo in the 60s.  Yrs passed when I began in-country contactor work, so focused on hand-to-hand.  A few years later, a certain agency wanted us skilled in Krav Maga, so they brought in the founder to train.  

 

It's been a longer time since doing that type of work, but was always able to adapt my physical capabilities to make me a better golfer.  That doesn't mean my swing doesn't get screwed up at times.  I was seriously screwed up last weekend.  Thankfully, when that's the case, I revert to fundamentals, and then move forward. 

 

Don't give up!

[TheDeanAbides]

On 5/6/2024 at 12:21 AM, Duffer Mark said:

Went to the range today and started with my pitching wedge working on the proper pressure shift and just making sure my hips go straight back without sway in both the backswing and downswing. I’ve been working on these moves slowly in the house. 
 

I have various clubs through the bag. I found it if I have a slight pause at the top it allows my pressure shift to complete in the left hip go straight back.

 

I was hitting the ball as pure as I’ve ever hit it. Even my three wood, which I have been struggling with. And my driver ball flight was on a string. 
 

Then I got rained out. 

Try not to actually pause - there’s a reason no good players do this. However, if you transition properly it’ll feel like it’s almost done in slow motion compared to the rest of the swing, which is why most handicap golfers rush it. 

[SNIPERBBB]

8 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Try not to actually pause - there’s a reason no good players do this. However, if you transition properly it’ll feel like it’s almost done in slow motion compared to the rest of the swing, which is why most handicap golfers rush it. 

Some do  they're outliers though. Seems more prevalent in Asian players for whatever reason.

 

Your pressure shift really ought to be done  before you get to the top. So either you're shifting way too late or your BS is way too fast or you're trying to shift forward too much.

[TheDeanAbides]

34 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Some do  they're outliers though. Seems more prevalent in Asian players for whatever reason.

 

Your pressure shift really ought to be done  before you get to the top. So either you're shifting way too late or your BS is way too fast or you're trying to shift forward too much.

Yes, I should have specified that. They tend to move away from it eventually though. 

[wagolfer7]

9 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Try not to actually pause - there’s a reason no good players do this. However, if you transition properly it’ll feel like it’s almost done in slow motion compared to the rest of the swing, which is why most handicap golfers rush it. 

 

Pause can be great as a drill though.  Especially someone trying to ingrain new moves.  Great way to check your in the position you were trying for, plus helps work on the initial move from the top.  A drill I'll mix in on the regular just to make sure I'm staying patient. 

 

Butch, Monte, Porzak, Padraig just to name a few that recommend the pause drill.