AMG: Side Bend Like A Major Champ - PROs vs AMs

[Nels55]

Good stuff on how to not hurt your back:

 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 minute ago, Nels55 said:

Good stuff on how to not hurt your back:

 

Have been texting with them for the last 2 hours on this subject.  Great stuff.

 

From last years masters week.  3 days later Zalatoris announced out for the year with surgery.  The section where they show range of motion and age…..a teenager can pick up a dog poop move and make it work.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4rDBIVvTcR/?igsh=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==

[Shilgy]

32 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Have been texting with them for the last 2 hours on this subject.  Great stuff.

 

From last years masters week.  3 days later Zalatoris announced out for the year with surgery.  The section where they show range of motion and age…..a teenager can pick up a dog poop move and make it work.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4rDBIVvTcR/?igsh=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==

So we want some but at 67 can attempt to do to much?

 

 

PS. What’s with this reply on your instagram post?

”it's actually illegal to hinge the arms against to body.”.  Is he thinking of putting or???

[Trippels]

Surely good stuff, but might be one of the hardest videos of theirs yet to understand, and I've got two engineering degrees. (Not the difficult kinds to be fair)

[MonteScheinblum]

19 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

So we want some but at 67 can attempt to do to much?

 

 

PS. What’s with this reply on your instagram post?

”it's actually illegal to hinge the arms against to body.”.  Is he thinking of putting or???

I can sum up the video in one sentence.  Stay in left tilt (righty) as long as you can and hit the ball.

 

i think that was someone who doesn’t speak English as their first language.

Edited March 25 by MonteScheinblum

[MonteScheinblum]

16 minutes ago, Trippels said:

Surely good stuff, but might be one of the hardest videos of theirs yet to understand, and I've got two engineering degrees. (Not the difficult kinds to be fair)

I get what you’re saying, but many of their videos and many of mine are for education purposes versus what you should think over the ball.  There’s so much information and so many people slobbering over the excess right tilters, there’s needs to be a counter point.  There’s a guy out there who thinks Joaquim Niemann should be the model people should follow.  
 

The video is as much (or more) for instructors as it is for average ajoe

[GolfTurkey]

6 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There’s a guy out there who thinks Joaquim Niemann should be the model people should follow. 

 

I have literally been told "think of Niemann and do that" by an instructor not 10 min after explaining my ROM limitations thanks to hip and knee surgery (not to mention age).

[KD1]

Cheerleader move, aka 'rib sway'. I for one am grateful for the timing of this one from AMG. I happen to be working on shoulder and upper torso mobility for general fitness reasons, I'm glad to know I don't have to force it into my swing... 

Edited March 25 by KD1

[Trippels]

17 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I get what you’re saying, but many of their videos and many of mine are for education purposes versus what you should think over the ball.  There’s so much information and so many people slobbering over the excess right tilters, there’s needs to be a counter point.  There’s a guy out there who thinks Joaquim Niemann should be the model people should follow.  
 

The video is as much (or more) for instructors as it is for average ajoe

Did you learn anything new from this video out of curiosity?

[MonteScheinblum]

1 minute ago, Trippels said:

Did you learn anything new from this video out of curiosity?

Not really because I have discussed a lot of this with them already in the past.  

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

31 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I have literally been told "think of Niemann and do that" by an instructor not 10 min after explaining my ROM limitations thanks to hip and knee surgery (not to mention age).

That guy should be forced to attend time share seminars 

 

Let’s look at facts.  I’m 56.  I’m 40-50 pounds over weight.  I can swing in excess of 120mph.

 

How many swings getting into these positions with all of those factors before I was seriously injured.  I’m thinking over/under of 3 and I’m better the under.

 

That’s why the part in the video where they show average range of motion is the most critical part of it.  You can perform a swing at 16, but the countdown clock has started.

 

Like I have said if Nieman, Perreira, Zalatoris, Sargent or Bennett came to me, I’d say win 100 mil, when it starts to hurt, come find me.  For Zalatoris that was 3 days after I posted the video.

Edited March 25 by MonteScheinblum

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

54 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I can sum up the video in one sentence.  Stay in left tilt (righty) as long as you can and hit the ball.

 

i think that was someone who doesn’t speak English as their first language.

This may be a really stupid question, but what is "left tilt"?  Really, what's the framework for: Left, Right, Forwards, backwards, etc...?  

 

I was watching "Driving for Dough," and the part where you mentioned upper-body spine axis tilted away from the target, with both shoulders in your turn being closer to your rear foot than target foot, and that this tilt was desirable.  Pressure went to your target foot, but your axis was still tilted away from the target.

 

Is this just a matter of the right handed golfer tilting to the left side in a face-on view, and not the golfer tilting towards their left side?

[MonteScheinblum]

2 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

This may be a really stupid question, but what is "left tilt"?  Really, what's the framework for: Left, Right, Forwards, backwards, etc...?  

 

I was watching "Driving for Dough," and the part where you mentioned upper-body spine axis tilted away from the target, with both shoulders in your turn being closer to your rear foot than target foot, and that this tilt was desirable.  Pressure went to your target foot, but your axis was still tilted away from the target.

 

Is this just a matter of the right handed golfer tilting to the left side in a face-on view, and not the golfer tilting towards their left side?

Correct.  As your shoulders rotate in the backswing cerca 90* to spin at address, that’s called left tilt.

 

You can be left tilted toward the ball and still be slightly tilted away from the target

 

[Tfb003]

Does anyone have a good video or explanation for the part of the video where from transition to like P5.5 there is an enormous amount of flexion added but it says the centers are moving up? That seems like a key move not often discussed…

[GolfTurkey]

I wonder how under-reported injuries from the excess right side bend movement are.

 

We know about Zalatoris because he had already made it, but how many guys are blowing out their backs before making it?

 

Will Z had the money to do the surgery and take off as long as required, but for lots of guys trying to get a card, an injury like that would be game over. 

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

3 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

I wonder how under-reported injuries from the excess right side bend movement are.

 

We know about Zalatoris because he had already made it, but how many guys are blowing out their backs before making it?

 

Will Z had the money to do the surgery and take off as long as required, but for lots of guys trying to get a card, an injury like that would be game over. 

 

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2024/01/17/michael-thorbjornsen-return-back-injury-hero-dubai-desert-classic-pga-tour-university/
 

 

[lookylookitzadam]

Is this basically telling you that you need to stay in left tilt as long as possible? If so, nothing new other than showing that measurements support that prevailing sentiment? 
 

Also, there are a lot of instructors recommending higher lead hip at address or hip bump toward the target - is this effectively Rich’s cheerleader move or just setting pelvis tilt? 

Edited March 25 by lookylookitzadam

[metaldog]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I can sum up the video in one sentence.  Stay in left tilt (righty) as long as you can and hit the ball.

 

i think that was someone who doesn’t speak English as their first language.

Monte thanks for the summary! I had trouble digesting the video, hitting a few balls with this feel feels great on the back!

I have question regarding staying in left tilt as long as possible until hitting the ball, is it because it reduces unwanted right side bend? And forces to use other proper parts of body to hit the ball?

[golferdude54]

I know not a lot of people here like Moe Norman's swing but you cannot deny that the leveling of his shoulders to his spine after impact was able to keep his body uninjured well into his 70s. Also check out the women from the US Women's Senior Open, they don't have that much side bend after impact either.

[MonteScheinblum]

16 minutes ago, metaldog said:

Monte thanks for the summary! I had trouble digesting the video, hitting a few balls with this feel feels great on the back!

I have question regarding staying in left tilt as long as possible until hitting the ball, is it because it reduces unwanted right side bend? And forces to use other proper parts of body to hit the ball?

Yep.  Staying in left tilt longer allows a lot of good things to happen and one of them is later and less right bend.

 

Staying in left tilt is not a new concept.  Keeping your back to the target is code for staying in left tilt.  The Bear

 

Rose calls it staying closed until you reach P6.

 

 

[PedronNiall]

5 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I have literally been told "think of Niemann and do that" by an instructor not 10 min after explaining my ROM limitations thanks to hip and knee surgery (not to mention age).

 

Guy on the range was telling his friend he needs to "fold his back" like the pros and proceeded to demonstrate the Neimann/Bennett/Former Zalatoris/Lost soul from the Valspar this weekend side bend at impact position as best one can.

 

Any orthos who specialize in lumbar area repairs are no doubt safe to put money down on that new vacation spot or live a little and hop into that second marriage sans prenup.

[PracticeSwinger]

Looks like we might be entering the next 'no need to maximize Xfactor' phase between spine and pelvis bends that caused big gaps in the lumbar and thoracic regions.

 

Open and tilted pelvis at impact is causing a lot of the right side bend distorsion seen in DTL and behind the player 2Ds.

 

That image is golden (and the explanations of the similitudes in DJ, Nelly and Lydia swings also)

[Nard_S]

The "swinging within a box", is a strong cue to work off of. Has helped me from moving out of left tilt too early or standing up in EE. I never thought of it as a box, more like a gate to swing through but the box metaphor is better.  I was starting to get to the point that max right bend came at P8 like it does in the video. 

 

I always felt a way to protect back was keep upper body's mass in line or somewhat on top of the pelvis, no over sway or over bend of spine for any type of tilts.

[iacas]

I have an Instagram message thread with a fairly popular RSB (right side bend, which is what I call this type of swing) instructor… where he really misunderstands the 3D nature of looking at a GEARS "side bend" thing.

 

In fact, the message he sent me first was this image to show how early a PGA Tour player was in "right side bend":

 

 

It was a case of "seeing what you want to see," not seeing how things actually are. Or, "bad camera angles aren't great for interpretation" — even though GEARS is 3D software… you're still looking at a 2D image here.

[phizzy30]

10 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

That guy should be forced to attend time share seminars 

 

Let’s look at facts.  I’m 56.  I’m 40-50 pounds over weight.  I can swing in excess of 120mph.

 

How many swings getting into these positions with all of those factors before I was seriously injured.  I’m thinking over/under of 3 and I’m better the under.

 

That’s why the part in the video where they show average range of motion is the most critical part of it.  You can perform a swing at 16, but the countdown clock has started.

 

Like I have said if Nieman, Perreira, Zalatoris, Sargent or Bennett came to me, I’d say win 100 mil, when it starts to hurt, come find me.  For Zalatoris that was 3 days after I posted the video.

Monte, would you say that these guys who have a ton of side bend get their power/speed from doing so or is it just a by product?  I used to have a ton of side bend as well when I was younger but that was when my ss was 122 on a stock swing.  Can't get into that position anymore because of age and a bad back so my speed has dropped a bit.  I noticed that most guys who have a lot of side bend tend to be long hitters.  Sargent, Min Woo, Niemann, etc. 

Edited March 25 by phizzy30

[Canada8888]

If you click the link for the free drill AMG offer (you need to give them your email to see it) and watch, that it may be a great addition. I loved the simple explanations in the drill video. 

[iacas]

My only nit-pick so far with the video is that they properly show how the hips/pelvis contributes to side bend with Richard at the start… and then their illustration here locks the pelvis in place to show a lot of side bend:

 

 

The rest… very good.

[swh0507]

12 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

That guy should be forced to attend time share seminars 

 

Let’s look at facts.  I’m 56.  I’m 40-50 pounds over weight.  I can swing in excess of 120mph.

 

How many swings getting into these positions with all of those factors before I was seriously injured.  I’m thinking over/under of 3 and I’m better the under.

 

That’s why the part in the video where they show average range of motion is the most critical part of it.  You can perform a swing at 16, but the countdown clock has started.

 

Like I have said if Nieman, Perreira, Zalatoris, Sargent or Bennett came to me, I’d say win 100 mil, when it starts to hurt, come find me.  For Zalatoris that was 3 days after I posted the video.

I think context would be important here. If the instructor was literally trying get you to be in the same position as Neiman, than yes there is a problem. If you needed to FEEL like Nieman to get into the needed side bend, that is a different story. 

 

I used to roll the club on the backswing. Instructor asked me to do a Jim Furyk swing impression. I felt like I was I had this crazy looping backswing like Furyk. Go to the video and it is on plane. 

[Llortamaisey]

36 minutes ago, Canada8888 said:

If you click the link for the free drill AMG offer (you need to give them your email to see it) and watch, that it may be a great addition. I loved the simple explanations in the drill video. 

I know this is going to make me sound like a needy, lazy internetian, would it be too much trouble to post the drill videos in this thread?

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

2 hours ago, PracticeSwinger said:

...Open and tilted pelvis at impact is causing a lot of the right side bend distorsion seen in DTL and behind the player 2Ds...

Great, "Too long; didn't watch," synopsis of the video. 

 

If your target-side pelvis moves up and back on the downswing, a lot of side bend can occur without requiring all of it from the spine.  Much easier to do, and we don't need that much anyway at impact and even P8.

 

Question for everyone:  Since we should stay in left tilt (left shoulder lower than right) at least until P6---though the amount of left tilt is going to decrease from P5 on---and this pelvis move aids right side bend, does this mean that pushing back/up/away from target side with lead leg and pelvis shouldn't happen until just before impact?  As a part of Monte's "tabletop" drill say?