PGA Tour TV Ratings Show Sick Patient

[Hawkeye77]

15 minutes ago, jdl said:

 

Yep!

 

Even the mid-afternoon window of the RBC drew well, basically just behind the NBA, but nobody is talking about those numbers. 
 

Valero was up - hmmm, so now a trend?

 

Maybe not, lol, but the sky isn’t falling. 

[jimecherry]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Yep!

 

Even the mid-afternoon window of the RBC drew well, basically just behind the NBA, but nobody is talking about those numbers. 
 

Valero was up - hmmm, so now a trend?

 

Maybe not, lol, but the sky isn’t falling. 

maybe someone should make a chart which events were up by how much and over how many years theyve been up

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, jimecherry said:

maybe someone should make a chart which events were up by how much and over how many years theyve been up

Someone posted one (that left out at least one event that was up, lol) but overall this year more lower than higher for sure. Recent events just not the gloom and doom of the narrative before the Valero numbers came out. 

Edited April 30 by Hawkeye77

[TroyB123]

It's tough to do apples to apples.  3 events had very significant weather issues that pushed the finish to Monday, skipped Sunday altogether, and finished during the Super Bowl.   Also events move around a lot in the calendar.  If you want to get really crazy with spin, you can claim that the Houston Open is up 700% in TV ratings (ignoring it was a fall event last year).   Masters ratings were inflated in 2023 due to Easter.

 

It seems ratings are down a tick, and maybe a tick more than overall cable sports viewing is, but probably more like a couple percent and not 20% or whatever is being claimed.   The strife with liv is surely a turn off for some, but probably not a lot.   It's hard to objectively think of too many players I miss these days.   Bryson is fun to watch, and is missed a bit.   Rahm hurts a bit.   But really are any of the other guys even moving the needle at all?   

 

[TiScape]

Proof that popularity equates to quality of product 

[RacineBoxer]

Lack of star power IMO. Yes, Scottie is amazing. But he's boring and kind of unchallenged right now. Rory moves the needle. Jon Rahm was moving the needle last year. Some of the early season tournaments had guys with very little popularity (amongst casual viewers) winning (Chris Kirk, Grayson Murray, Nick Dunlap, Matthieu Pavon, Nick Taylor, Jake Knapp, Austin Eckroat, etc). Casual fans no none of these guys. That's not good. 

 

Just look at what a star like Caitlin Clark does for tv ratings. 

 

The best thing for the PGA tour would be to have 3 or so big personalities all winning a ton and having almost a rivalry with one another for who can win the most. 

 

I don't blame LIV. At least not the discussions about it. I do think that Rahm playing so great in 2023 and then leaving really has hurt. A Rahm/Scheffler rivalry would be entertaining. 

Edited April 30 by RacineBoxer

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 hours ago, jdl said:

 

This isn't quite right, if you use the streaming service DVR, the recording is on their server and you just have a "flag" set on your client app to show it in your "DVR" list. The only time it's "fed to your TV" is if you watch it. I've got all the PGA Tour golf events flagged to record via YTTV but rarely watch them. IIRC they get automatically deleted after 90 days.

 

Apologies if I didn't state it accurately--I was trying to say the exact same thing you did 😉 

 

Flagging something on a "cloud DVR" doesn't mean anything for ratings until you actually watch it. But when you watch it, the provider KNOWS you watched it (or at least that it was fed to your TV) so they can count that if they're reporting how many people have viewed content to the content owner. 

 

BTW I've spent a number of years working with cable/satellite providers and the intricacies of DVR are interesting. There's two sorts of "cloud DVR" type implementations. The first is where every single thing you record has a unique recording stored individually and assigned to you. I.e. if you and I both "record" The Masters, it results in TWO copies on the provider's storage array (or more like hundreds/thousands when applied across a population). In that case, because you essentially "own" your own unique recording, you're allowed to do pretty much anything with it, such as skipping through commercials. What's more common now for live TV streaming is what you mention, where if we both "record" The Masters, and there's only one copy on the provider's storage array that could be streamed to you, I, and hundreds of other users. In that case, they're now "streaming" it and it's not really recorded content at all, so if the content provider declares "you can only stream this if you don't allow fast forwarding through commercials", the provider has to abide by this. Once it becomes streaming rather than actual recorded content, the content owner holds the reins of what can be done with it.

 

Different content owners do things differently. I have Hulu Live TV and some programs that I record allow for fast forwarding through commercials, while others don't. Some participate in the "Live TV w/o ads" model while others will force you to watch ads even if you pay for the "no ads" version of Hulu Live TV. It all comes down to the individual content owners who are licensing the content to Hulu for streaming.

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, jdl said:

 

LOL!.....   Men's Professional golf is just fine. People have short-term memory.

 

Just a reminder, The PGAT recently (2022) received a 400% raise in their Media rights deal, which in total was around $9 Billion dollars. 2023 was one of the most successful seasons in recent memory with the elevated events.

 

The PGAT switched to a calendar season and every one of the tournaments has either been delayed or canceled due to weather. The big names took extra time off due to the switch... Let's check the ratings at the end of the season.

 

It is foolish to compare 2023 to 2024 even though some tournaments surpass others in viewership. The talking point that " the tour is failing because 5 good players left in just that, a talking point for PGAT detractors.

 

The PGAT is just fine. IMO Somehow the tour will survive if a few players leave, ....it's not that fragile.

[bscinstnct]

2 hours ago, jdl said:

 

 

 

You know these numbers are right around where the NBA playoff games are. And wayyyy better than NHL games shown nationally 

 

 

But the key is that pga tour viewers are far more concentrated and valuable to that key luxury, financial services, pharma demographic 

 

The tour needs new dynamic players to mature no question though 

 

[Titleist99]

52 minutes ago, TroyB123 said:

It's tough to do apples to apples.  3 events had very significant weather issues that pushed the finish to Monday, skipped Sunday altogether, and finished during the Super Bowl.   Also events move around a lot in the calendar.  If you want to get really crazy with spin, you can claim that the Houston Open is up 700% in TV ratings (ignoring it was a fall event last year).   Masters ratings were inflated in 2023 due to Easter.

 

It seems ratings are down a tick, and maybe a tick more than overall cable sports viewing is, but probably more like a couple percent and not 20% or whatever is being claimed.   The strife with liv is surely a turn off for some, but probably not a lot.   It's hard to objectively think of too many players I miss these days.   Bryson is fun to watch, and is missed a bit.   Rahm hurts a bit.   But really are any of the other guys even moving the needle at all?   

 

100%. Your view is shared by many.

[RobS]

5 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

 

 

But enough of how the "battle" is draining people -- believe it or not, they still get up in the morning and function.

The players, the tours and the media are projecting these emotions on to the fans.  Outside of a small percentage of hardcore golf fans, I don't think anyone cares.  I haven't heard a single person in the real world talking about the need to unify the pro game and I don't hear anyone talking about LIV vs PGA anymore.  Televised pro golf is just an accessory for those that like or love playing the game.  

[bcjim]

Does anyone know the inner workings of "PGA Tour" Radio on SXM? 

In particular,  what relationship do they have with the tour? They just license the name? Are they paying the tour? Is the tour paying them? 

 

I ask because for "PGA Tour" those guys spend a lot of time talking about liv. I'd be a bit irked if I were Jay & Co.

 

Zarrzer is the worst offender but ITR rehashed the liv event at some length this morning too. 

[jimecherry]

13 minutes ago, bcjim said:

Does anyone know the inner workings of "PGA Tour" Radio on SXM? 

In particular,  what relationship do they have with the tour? They just license the name? Are they paying the tour? Is the tour paying them? 

 

I ask because for "PGA Tour" those guys spend a lot of time talking about liv. I'd be a bit irked if I were Jay & Co.

 

Zarrzer is the worst offender but ITR rehashed the liv event at some length this morning too. 

pga tour also talks up college golf and the lpga in multiple shows so its probably licensing the name.

[RobS]

41 minutes ago, bcjim said:

Does anyone know the inner workings of "PGA Tour" Radio on SXM? 

In particular,  what relationship do they have with the tour? They just license the name? Are they paying the tour? Is the tour paying them? 

 

I ask because for "PGA Tour" those guys spend a lot of time talking about liv. I'd be a bit irked if I were Jay & Co.

 

Zarrzer is the worst offender but ITR rehashed the liv event at some length this morning too. 

PGA Tour Radio is owned by SiriusXM.  SXM pays the Tour for the radio rights to broadcast PGA Tour events. It was started as sort of a partnership where XM paid for broadcast rights and were given use of the name and allowed to sell and rent those earpiece radios at tournaments.  If the Tour gets irked enough, they could wield some influence if they haven't already.

[TiScape]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

You know these numbers are right around where the NBA playoff games are. And wayyyy better than NHL games shown nationally 

 

 

But the key is that pga tour viewers are far more concentrated and valuable to that key luxury, financial services, pharma demographic 

 

The tour needs new dynamic players to mature no question though 

 

 I started an NBA playoffs thread over in the 19th hole sub and one person has responded in 4 days! 😂

 

*the fact that that sub is mostly grouchy old dudes could def explain some of that 

 

Edited April 30 by TiScape

[bscinstnct]

4 minutes ago, TiScape said:

 I started an NBA playoffs thread over in the 19th hole sub and one person has responded in 4 days! 😂

 

 

Doh! I noticed 🙁

 

I just haven’t got into 🏀 since MJ and the Knicks (bastids 🤣)

 

[TiScape]

2 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

Doh! I noticed 🙁

 

I just haven’t got into 🏀 since MJ and the Knicks (bastids 🤣)

 

Im a casual watcher at best. Watch basically 0 regular season. But I’m telling ya. There have been numerous playoff games that have come down to the final buzzer. Seriously exciting/entertaining action. Ppl are missin’ out.

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

Doh! I noticed 🙁

 

I just haven’t got into 🏀 since MJ and the Knicks (bastids 🤣)

 

 

I hung on to watch most of MJ's championship series runs, but quit following on a "must watch" basis when Bird retired, honestly. 

 

On the way back machine still recall the limping Willis Reed leading the Knicks to a championship when I was young.  Loved that team! 

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, RobS said:

PGA Tour Radio is owned by SiriusXM.  SXM pays the Tour for the radio rights to broadcast PGA Tour events. It was started as sort of a partnership where XM paid for broadcast rights and were given use of the name and allowed to sell and rent those earpiece radios at tournaments.  If the Tour gets irked enough, they could wield some influence if they haven't already.

Absolutely correct! Their contract run through 2024. I'm sure that it will be renegotiated by that (Do nothing Jay Monahan) << sarcasm at the end of the year. 

 

The PGAT has its hands in all things golf. Working for the membership.

[Chunked]

On 4/29/2024 at 8:45 PM, billyspan said:

Right on.  Those guys you mentioned are brutal, man.

 

A player has to have CHARISMA to be marketable. Cantlay, Xander, Morikawa almost have negative amounts of charisma.

 

Tiger has it, Spieth some, Rory a little.  Bryson...maybe?  Rahm?  DJ, JT, Fowler, Wyndham, Hovland, Gooch...NONE.

Are you seriously saying Rickie Fowler lacks Charisma????

[caniac6]

I’m watching the early coverage of the CJ Cup, and there are many guys I have never heard of. I don’t care to watch that other tour ( I’m not sure what we can mention anymore), but they do have a lot of recognizable players. The PGA Tour needs to get the merger done to get the big names back.

[manku]

Eventually these no names will become stars.  
 

Whether anyone is around to see it happen is a different matter altogether.  
 

Not an Airplane! reference.  

[Archimedes65]

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. The data is misleading, for a number of reasons, not the least of which has been a run of really bad weather.  However, to assume that the LIV departures haven’t had some impact is delusion. I have less than zero interest in LIV, but if you look at the players and go back to OWR when the split started, it’s about an 80/20 split of the top players between the PGA Tour and LIV.  Losing 20% of your top players, plus some older fan favorites is going to have some impact on your fan base.

 

I’ve always felt that, except for Tiger, golf fandom hasn’t been so much about the players as it has been the events, I.e., the courses and the traditions.  I think that the split has brought that issue to the fore, and people are losing interest in the lesser events, particularly now that the fields are so weakened, both with the LIV departures and the top players focusing on the elevated events..

[Archimedes65]

3 hours ago, caniac6 said:

I’m watching the early coverage of the CJ Cup, and there are many guys I have never heard of. I don’t care to watch that other tour ( I’m not sure what we can mention anymore), but they do have a lot of recognizable players. The PGA Tour needs to get the merger done to get the big names back.

 

If the golf’s compelling, I don’t care who’s in contention.  I want to see guys sweat making cuts and I want to see tournaments come down to the back nine on Sunday.  And I want to see it happen on interesting golf courses, not dog tracks like the one they’re playing this week.

 

And I’m hoping the merger is DOA (which I think it is, because IMO the challenges are intractable).  I want to see LIV continue to burn money playing meaningless exhibitions on mostly no-name courses for as long as possible.

[kiwigolf72]

1 hour ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

If the golf’s compelling, I don’t care who’s in contention.  I want to see guys sweat making cuts and I want to see tournaments come down to the back nine on Sunday.  And I want to see it happen on interesting golf courses, not dog tracks like the one they’re playing this week.

 

And I’m hoping the merger is DOA (which I think it is, because IMO the challenges are intractable).  I want to see LIV continue to burn money playing meaningless exhibitions on mostly no-name courses for as long as possible.

between the ads and the fact that they only show the leaders on TV, where do you get to watch players sweating to make the cut?

[masegolf1978]

I think the Byron Nelson has been pretty good so far.
 

But the bibigo commercial is going to make me go do something else…

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 minutes ago, masegolf1978 said:

I think the Byron Nelson has been pretty good so far.
 

But the bibigo commercial is going to make me go do something else…

What, eat some dumplings? 

[masegolf1978]

1 minute ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

What, eat some dumplings? 

Literally anything other than watch/listen to that terrible commercial again!

[Archimedes65]

1 hour ago, kiwigolf72 said:

between the ads and the fact that they only show the leaders on TV, where do you get to watch players sweating to make the cut?

 

Well, there’s an easy solution to the ad problem, called a DVR.  I never watch Golf live, except for the Masters.

 

And as far as watching some cut sweating, with Jordan’s form of late, that’s not too hard…. Particularly if you have ESPN+.

[00steven]

I haven’t watched more than I’d say 8 hours of non major/players tour golf this year. I’m a die hard too. It’s tough to get into it with so many no name people, IMO.