PGA Tour TV Ratings Show Sick Patient

[ToTheBunker]

On 4/25/2024 at 2:33 PM, Hickory4ever said:

I am watching less and less golf and a lot of my friends are the same. Our interest in playing has never been higher. The reasons are likely similar to those that others have stated.

 

For me, the current PGA Tour broadcasts are making it easy to switch channels. Too many commercials and too many talking heads. The fracturing of the game only makes it worse, at least for me.

Same for me...it is quite hard to watch the broadcast when they are showing a Coach/Caddie wiping grips for like 5 minutes while shots are made on the course...

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, ToTheBunker said:

Same for me...it is quite hard to watch the broadcast when they are showing a Coach/Caddie wiping grips for like 5 minutes while shots are made on the course...

There's much more to the Professional Golf game than hitting shots. There's strategy, rule infractions, a flow to the round, and shots put into context. Televised golf is more interested in entertaining the masses vs the few who just want to see random shots. IMO

[ToTheBunker]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

There's much more to the Professional Golf game than hitting shots. There's strategy, rule infractions, a flow to the round, and shots put into context. Televised golf is more interested in entertaining the masses vs the few who just want to see random shots. IMO

Agree on that, but my opinion stands for me since the situation was on the practise area. I support all your points, though!

[MrDC]

Ratings? who watches cable TV anymore? these numbers are so meaningless now, everyone streams online.

Edited April 29 by MrDC

[jimecherry]

30 minutes ago, MrDC said:

Ratings? who watches cable TV anymore? these numbers are so meaningless now, everyone streams online.

if the streaming numbers are impressive why isnt anyone talking about them ;} 

[One Putter]

Low TV numbers is just a liv shill talking point. The reality isn't that people are tuning out the PGA tour in favor of liv. If that was the case, the liv boys would just brag about their own TV numbers. The reality is that their TV numbers are completely pathetic and show it is a non viable product without constant cash injections. People are tuning out golf in general because they're tired of the liv nonsense.

[Oostiesalbacore]

The way golf is referred to as “product” like it’s some widget to be sold really turns me off. It seems to be a side effect of the economists/business majors taking over and is just another way data analytics is making the game boring. It happened to baseball and now it’s happening to golf. 

[One Putter]

4 minutes ago, Oostiesalbacore said:

The way golf is referred to as “product” like it’s some widget to be sold really turns me off. It seems to be a side effect of the economists/business majors taking over and is just another way data analytics is making the game boring. It happened to baseball and now it’s happening to golf. 

Absolutely this. Way too many people that think they know way too much talking about the business side of things. Like hey how about we let the people who get paid to do those jobs worry about those things. Nobody cares about what Joe Couchpotato thinks about Jay Monahan's business sense. We are just fans. The priority on our end should be "are we entertained?" That's it.

[jimecherry]

2 hours ago, One Putter said:

Low TV numbers is just a liv shill talking point. The reality isn't that people are tuning out the PGA tour in favor of liv. If that was the case, the liv boys would just brag about their own TV numbers. The reality is that their TV numbers are completely pathetic and show it is a non viable product without constant cash injections. People are tuning out golf in general because they're tired of the liv nonsense.

you could probably say that people are tuning out of golf on tv in general because theyre not watching as much tv in general.

[billyspan]

On 4/22/2024 at 11:39 PM, notsohard said:

TV is boring. Youtube golf content is more than adequate, and entertaining. 

I can empathize.  I am catching more highlights and the occasional YouTuber round or review these days.

 

Golf as entertainment vs golf as competition...

[billyspan]

On 4/23/2024 at 4:16 AM, kmbean said:

Good post.

 

The Cantlay hat issue and the JT/Morikawa antics after the fact was pretty ridiculous to see.  It’s amazing to me with all the media/PR training these guys have received they are still completely clueless at how insufferable they come across as at times.

Right on.  Those guys you mentioned are brutal, man.

 

A player has to have CHARISMA to be marketable. Cantlay, Xander, Morikawa almost have negative amounts of charisma.

 

Tiger has it, Spieth some, Rory a little.  Bryson...maybe?  Rahm?  DJ, JT, Fowler, Wyndham, Hovland, Gooch...NONE.

[RSLP]

 

It is hard , time consuming, and expensive niche sport.  Pay extra to have the Golf Channel, and also stream golf apps.  Plus time to practice and play.  Toss in some club building.  Don’t forget the work outs , as we all need a few more MPH in our swings.  Plus the forums, and maybe a little DraftKings for some.    Is it really a surprise that the general viewing public likes Friends or Southpark re-runs more?

[TiScape]

7 hours ago, MrDC said:

Ratings? who watches cable TV anymore? These numbers are so meaningless now, everyone streams online.

🖐

Edited April 30 by TiScape

[bcjim]

1 hour ago, billyspan said:

Right on.  Those guys you mentioned are brutal, man.

 

A player has to have CHARISMA to be marketable. Cantlay, Xander, Morikawa almost have negative amounts of charisma.

 

Tiger has it, Spieth some, Rory a little.  Bryson...maybe?  Rahm?  DJ, JT, Fowler, Wyndham, Hovland, Gooch...NONE.

X and Cantlay for sure. They don't seem to understand the job. I get zebras can't change their stripes and there is nothing wrong with being a vanilla cupcake but if that's what you are, don't expect to be treated like something else. 

[cassel191919]

On 4/22/2024 at 10:53 PM, NormanFan said:

 

100% agree with this.  Some people/organizations have done this for classic rounds like Tiger's 1997 Masters round, Phil's 2004 Masters final round, Greg Norman's 1993 Open Championship, etc.  It's fun to watch that and I'd definitely tune in to see something like that each day.

How much are you going to be willing to pay to watch something like this? They already are struggling to get sponsors to pay the rate for these outrageous purses.

[NevinW]

There is no question that the split with LIV and the fracturing of men's professional golf has turned off many people.  It would be interesting to see if there has been a simila decline in ratings for the LPGA.

[Hawkeye77]

53 minutes ago, NevinW said:

There is no question that the split with LIV and the fracturing of men's professional golf has turned off many people.  It would be interesting to see if there has been a simila decline in ratings for the LPGA.

Not that many in the grand scheme of things, but they get people parroting that over and over  - just a media clickbait talking point for the most part because it makes “good copy” and is convenient.  Ratings are down in general for traditional viewing, traffic way up for other ways to watch, different world and …….. contracts in place until 2030. 
 

The game of golf is in a great place and setting records in terms of participation so people need to get off the ratings nonsense and talk about what matters for the game in general which is good news if you care about golf. 
 

Most folks whining about ratings don’t watch every PGA Tour event anyway.
 

 

[Danielson]

14 hours ago, One Putter said:

Absolutely this. Way too many people that think they know way too much talking about the business side of things. Like hey how about we let the people who get paid to do those jobs worry about those things. Nobody cares about what Joe Couchpotato thinks about Jay Monahan's business sense. We are just fans. The priority on our end should be "are we entertained?" That's it.

 

Thank you! Pro golf in a vacuum is no longer fun to watch. Maybe it never was, but this constant battle between two sides each trying to convince the fans that their side is totally great has shone a spotlight on how unfun it is to watch most events on TV. We don't need to pick sides, we can just go outside and play golf instead until someone figures out how to make it more fun.

[Hawkeye77]

32 minutes ago, Danielson said:

 

Thank you! Pro golf in a vacuum is no longer fun to watch. Maybe it never was, but this constant battle between two sides each trying to convince the fans that their side is totally great has shone a spotlight on how unfun it is to watch most events on TV. We don't need to pick sides, we can just go outside and play golf instead until someone figures out how to make it more fun.

 

Not sure what golf in a "vaccuum" means or what has really been "shone", but if it's no longer fun for you don't watch, it's golf on TV - you think the NBA is broadcast significantly different? If anything it's popularity has just allowed a lot more "blah, blah, blah".  Only so many ways to do it but the "battle" really has nothing to to with the product, at least so far as the majors and the PGA Tour and other real tours - there's never been more golf available to watch than there is now (cue someone shortsightedly saying "too much golf on TV" next, lol).  Either enjoy it or . . . go play . . . or both, they aren't mutually exclusive these days.  

 

But enough of how the "battle" is draining people -- believe it or not, they still get up in the morning and function.

Edited April 30 by Hawkeye77

[Avidswampthing66]

Men's, professional golf has a money and a personality problem.   Most of the "bad guys" or at least most interesting went to LIV.  Those that went, made the PGA Tour broadcast more interesting before.   "Look it's P REED in another scandal.  Or Bryson is going ape s*** again on #12 tee"    

[Hankshank]

Those 20% do they take into account that people stream golf from sports streaming channels nowadays? 
 

the only things I watch live nowadays golf wise are last days Masters and the Open. The rest I watch skipping leaderboards and caddy discussions.

But, haning the possibility to watch at my preferred time I watch more now than I did a couple of years ago. Also those different streams, featured groups and holes makes the watching more interesting.

 

Edited April 30 by Hankshank

[MrDC]

I agree LIV and their fans would love everyone to think their tour has cost the PGAT millions of views, but that's mostly shillsh*t, I think LIV has only strengthened support for the PGAT, the numbers are fine knowing we can't see the stream data which make up a bulk these days, overall it's only down compared to years ago because of the Tiger correction, if he were competing people would be watching like it was 2000 again.

Edited April 30 by MrDC

[Danielson]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Not sure what golf in a "vaccuum" means or what has really been "shone", but if it's no longer fun for you don't watch, it's golf on TV - you think the NBA is broadcast significantly different? If anything it's popularity has just allowed a lot more "blah, blah, blah".  Only so many ways to do it but the "battle" really has nothing to to with the product, at least so far as the majors and the PGA Tour and other real tours - there's never been more golf available to watch than there is now (cue someone shortsightedly saying "too much golf on TV" next, lol).  Either enjoy it or . . . go play . . . or both, they aren't mutually exclusive these days.  

 

But enough of how the "battle" is draining people -- believe it or not, they still get up in the morning and function.

 

That was my point, that golf on TV is not very interesting and so I don't watch as much anymore. Many others don't either, as evidenced by declining TV ratings/viewers/etc. The NBA is fun to watch because you have players performing athletic feats almost constantly, with multiple angles typically available to show you these feats. Half the time on a golf broadcast you're just watching putts that break in seemingly random directions because you can't really see the breaks/slopes/grain that well on a TV camera mounted in a tower. Or you're watching a top tracer off the tee since you can't actually see the ball. This isn't the PGA Tours fault, golf is just very difficult to televise.

 

In a vacuum in this case means that when you remove the outside storylines, tournament prestige, etc that watching guys hit golf shots on mostly bland courses interspersed with commentary and/or commercials is not that interesting. If they could come up with better camera angles that let you see the course better, see shots better without a tracer, find a way to play on more interesting courses, etc that might change.

 

Your post reads like a bunch of unconnected thoughts with randomly quoted words, but it does seem like we agree on the main issue being that people are becoming much less interested in pro golf while becoming much more interested in playing golf.

[Hankshank]

If people really do watch less PGA tournaments. More people watch sports streamed on like discovery+

 

 

Edited April 30 by Hankshank

[betarhoalphadelta]

If any of you think the content owners don't know what is being watched and by whom and in what numbers "because streaming", I've got a bridge to sell you. 

 

In fact, technology has made it MUCH easier to know any of this than it was in the traditional Nielson ratings days. Nielson by definition was essentially a poll--try to extrapolate from a limited sample size (i.e. not the 100Mish households in the US) what was being watched. Because by definition you had to opt in to be a Nielson household, and there was only a very small portion of the country that did it. 

 

Instead, when I watch early round coverage on ESPN+, they have the ability to know EXACTLY how many minutes that stream is on. Granted, they don't know if I've left the house, gone to Costco, and it's only on for the dog (he loves napping to golf), but they know that stream is being actively fed to my Roku. 

 

Likewise if you DVR it on any of the "cloud DVR services"--while it's possible to DVR something on a traditional DVR and maybe delete it before you've ever watched it, on a cloud DVR they know with 100% certainty that it's being fed to your TV because they're doing it in real time. 

 

(It's possible with internet-connected cable boxes and satellite receivers that even those are reporting viewing habits back to the cable/satellite providers. It's technically possible, of course. Which would allow them to even know what you're watching live or on your traditional DVR. Whether they make use of it--I'd assume yes--is unknown to me.)

 

These streaming / cloud DVR numbers aren't publicized the way Nielson ever was, of course. But they're available. And I'm going to speculate with 99.44% certainty that the PGAT has in their contract with ESPN+ that they will have access to all of that data. ESPN+ probably also has language in that contract that the PGAT has to consider that confidential information only to be shared with advertisers, NOT publicly. 

 

So while the public doesn't know how much content is being streamed, the relevant players (the streamers, content providers, advertisers) all most certainly do. 

 

[Soloman1]

televised golf, like much of tv, is so cringeworthy and bad, it may have crossed a tipping point that viewers will need to get paid to watch.

[jdl]

26 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Likewise if you DVR it on any of the "cloud DVR services"--while it's possible to DVR something on a traditional DVR and maybe delete it before you've ever watched it, on a cloud DVR they know with 100% certainty that it's being fed to your TV because they're doing it in real time. 

 

 

 

This isn't quite right, if you use the streaming service DVR, the recording is on their server and you just have a "flag" set on your client app to show it in your "DVR" list. The only time it's "fed to your TV" is if you watch it. I've got all the PGA Tour golf events flagged to record via YTTV but rarely watch them. IIRC they get automatically deleted after 90 days.

[jdl]

 

[Hawkeye77]

15 minutes ago, jdl said:

 

Yep!

 

Even the mid-afternoon window of the RBC drew well, basically just behind the NBA, but nobody is talking about those numbers. 
 

Valero was up - hmmm, so now a trend?

 

Maybe not, lol, but the sky isn’t falling. 

[jimecherry]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Yep!

 

Even the mid-afternoon window of the RBC drew well, basically just behind the NBA, but nobody is talking about those numbers. 
 

Valero was up - hmmm, so now a trend?

 

Maybe not, lol, but the sky isn’t falling. 

maybe someone should make a chart which events were up by how much and over how many years theyve been up